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Speed Destiny
Cluelix
0
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Posted - 2014.05.31 19:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
Not very sure how to use improved cloaking device ii and when... Can someone explain to me by few scenarios?
Actually, I think I am very confused (not really surprising for a newbie), but how do you get killed in hi-sec space 0.5+ when just traveling not using auto-pilot? Suicide pilots? I arrive at a stargate at under 2.000m, so I cannot use it. Then after jumping, I cannot use it as I am again too close... But then I am warping anyway...
Can someone explain to me when the dangers are and how to use such a device to circumvent them?
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Speed Destiny
Cluelix
0
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Posted - 2014.05.31 19:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
When exit a stargate? Jump quickly out, then cloak, then align, then warp? So you gain time when you align? Why not align close to stargate? |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
788
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Posted - 2014.05.31 19:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
Er... you use it when you want to cloak. It's pretty straight forward and has a wide variety of uses.
If you're talking specifically about the cloak-align trick, you're also going to need a microwarp drive.
To do it you, in rapid succession, hit align-to (your warp target), cloak, MWD.
You'll now be accelerating toward your warp-to taget, while cloaked, with the MWD off setting the velocity reduction of the cloaking device.
As the MWD cycle reaches its end, you decloak and hit the warp button. The total adjustment to your velocity should ideally leave you above the 75% threshold to enter warp, and so you do so, instantly. "Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Speed Destiny
Cluelix
0
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Posted - 2014.05.31 19:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Er... you use it when you want to cloak. It's pretty straight forward and has a wide variety of uses.
If you're talking specifically about the cloak-align trick, you're also going to need a microwarp drive.
To do it you, in rapid succession, hit align-to (your warp target), cloak, MWD.
You'll now be accelerating toward your warp-to taget, while cloaked, with the MWD off setting the velocity reduction of the cloaking device.
As the MWD cycle reaches its end, you decloak and hit the warp button. The total adjustment to your velocity should ideally leave you above the 75% threshold to enter warp, and so you do so, instantly.
OK, I will surely try. What I am confused about is WHY you need this? Suicide gankers? Someone preventing me to warp while shooting me and tanking the stargate defences?
So WHY in high-sec? |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
788
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Posted - 2014.05.31 19:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
Speed Destiny wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:Er... you use it when you want to cloak. It's pretty straight forward and has a wide variety of uses.
If you're talking specifically about the cloak-align trick, you're also going to need a microwarp drive.
To do it you, in rapid succession, hit align-to (your warp target), cloak, MWD.
You'll now be accelerating toward your warp-to taget, while cloaked, with the MWD off setting the velocity reduction of the cloaking device.
As the MWD cycle reaches its end, you decloak and hit the warp button. The total adjustment to your velocity should ideally leave you above the 75% threshold to enter warp, and so you do so, instantly. OK, I will surely try. What I am confused about is WHY you need this? Suicide gankers? Someone preventing me to warp while shooting me and tanking the stargate defences? So WHY in high-sec?
It provides protection against suicide gankers, yes. This is generally applicable when hauling valuable loot in a poorly tanked ship.
It also allows some ships, like the Orca, to get into warp much faster than they otherwise could. A single MWD cycle is 10 seconds, while the the normal align time for an Orca is roughly twice that. To be fair, if you're just trying to enter warp more quickly, simply pulsing the MWD once will get the job done - no need for the cloak. "Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Speed Destiny
Cluelix
0
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Posted - 2014.05.31 19:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:[...] To do it you, in rapid succession, hit align-to (your warp target), cloak, MWD [...].
Moreover, this is very confusing again. Hit align-to... So far so good, but you cannot cloak close to stargate, so in order to cloak you need to get away first loosing important time, while not cloaked from the stargate jump, correct?
So correct order would be:
1. get distance from stargate 2. cloak 3. MWD 4. align-to 5. warp
Still very confused. And do not know how to experiment so I understand better...
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Speed Destiny
Cluelix
0
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Posted - 2014.05.31 19:30:00 -
[7] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
[...] To be fair, if you're just trying to enter warp more quickly, simply pulsing the MWD once will get the job done - no need for the cloak.
Now you confused me some more. I got back to original question. Then WHY would you use this device in high-sec? Can you give me some scenarios?
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
788
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Posted - 2014.05.31 19:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
Speed Destiny wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:
[...] To be fair, if you're just trying to enter warp more quickly, simply pulsing the MWD once will get the job done - no need for the cloak.
Now you confused me some more. I got back to original question. Then WHY would you use this device in high-sec? Can you give me some scenarios?
I'm hauling an industrial full of datacores to my POS for invention. My cargo is valuable enough, and my ship flimsy enough, that a few destroyers could economically blow me up. So, as I initiate warp in each system, I use the cloak-MWD trick, rendering myself untargetable by would-be suicide gankers. "Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Speed Destiny
Cluelix
0
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Posted - 2014.05.31 19:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
I am hauling with a Bustard and a Crane. But really I don't know how to use on these Cloacking and MWD to be safer... I don't have yet Covert Ops but soon for the Crane. That is at least allowing me to use warp cloaked. But other than that I have no idea what to be careful and protect myself.
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Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
1359
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Posted - 2014.05.31 19:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
Speed Destiny wrote:1. get distance from stargate
Unnecessary. You arrive far further than 2.5 km from a stargate, and that's the distance threshold for cloaking. Moreover, gaining distance while uncloaked would kinda defeat the point of cloaking after a jump. |
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
788
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Posted - 2014.05.31 19:38:00 -
[11] - Quote
Speed Destiny wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:[...] To do it you, in rapid succession, hit align-to (your warp target), cloak, MWD [...]. Moreover, this is very confusing again. Hit align-to... So far so good, but you cannot cloak close to stargate, so in order to cloak you need to get away first loosing important time, while not cloaked from the stargate jump, correct? So correct order would be: 1. get distance from stargate 2. cloak 3. MWD 4. align-to 5. warp Still very confused. And do not know how to experiment so I understand better...
No. Any time you come out on the opposite side of a stargate you have just jumped through, you're going to be approximately 12-15KM away from it - plenty of distance that the gate will not interfere with your cloaking.
If the area is crowded it is possible, though unlikely, that something ELSE could be close enough to prevent you from cloaking. Players with drones out, the occasional "cloud" of cloak-interference items - I've even come out of a jump right next to a bounty board. "Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Speed Destiny
Cluelix
0
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Posted - 2014.05.31 19:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
Sorry, after jumping a stargate (while still gate cloaked 12km away from it), the error message is:
"Interference from the cloaking you are doing is preventing your systems from functioning at this time"
Enlight me please... This is where I get lost...
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
788
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Posted - 2014.05.31 19:42:00 -
[13] - Quote
Speed Destiny wrote:Sorry, after jumping a stargate (while still gate cloaked 12km away from it), the error message is:
"Interference from the cloaking you are doing is preventing your systems from functioning at this time"
Enlight me please... This is where I get lost...
When you come out on the far side of a stargate, you're ALREADY cloaked, no matter what. This cloaking lasts for a short duration, OR until you move, and prevents module activation. So it's saying you can't cloak, because you are ALREADY cloaked. :)
That's why FIRST, you hit align-to (breaking your jump-cloak), THEN you cloak and MWD. "Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Speed Destiny
Cluelix
0
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Posted - 2014.05.31 19:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
That's why FIRST, you hit align-to (breaking your jump-cloak), THEN you cloak and MWD.
Look, I am not trolling or something... But...
Align-to first... ok. But isn't this the time eater operation anyway? When you are possible to get ganked??? If something is going to happen, won't it happen during align-to phase?
Then you cloak... But they can prevent you already from cloaking or MWD-ing away, right?
So must vulnerable and time consuming is align to...
Indeed, you gain some time, when warping is getting up to speed but it might be already too late...
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Speed Destiny
Cluelix
0
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Posted - 2014.05.31 19:51:00 -
[15] - Quote
Oh, when you hit align-to, you insta-cloak, so while still aligning you cloak. Now it starts to make a bit of sense to my stubborn brain...
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Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
1359
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Posted - 2014.05.31 19:52:00 -
[16] - Quote
Speed Destiny wrote:Align-to first... ok. But isn't this the time eater operation anyway? When you are possible to get ganked??? If something is going to happen, won't it happen during align-to phase?
He didn't say 'align then wait for something'. Hit align (drops the gate cloak), then cloak, then mwd in rapid succession.
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Speed Destiny
Cluelix
0
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Posted - 2014.05.31 19:54:00 -
[17] - Quote
Elena Thiesant wrote:Speed Destiny wrote:Align-to first... ok. But isn't this the time eater operation anyway? When you are possible to get ganked??? If something is going to happen, won't it happen during align-to phase? He didn't say 'align then wait for something'. Hit align (drops the gate cloak), then cloak, then mwd in rapid succession.
Thanks, it just clicked moments ago in my head. :) I will try...
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
788
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Posted - 2014.05.31 19:56:00 -
[18] - Quote
Speed Destiny wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:
That's why FIRST, you hit align-to (breaking your jump-cloak), THEN you cloak and MWD.
Look, I am not trolling or something... But... Align-to first... ok. But isn't this the time eater operation anyway? When you are possible to get ganked??? If something is going to happen, won't it happen during align-to phase? Then you cloak... But they can prevent you already from cloaking or MWD-ing away, right? So must vulnerable and time consuming is align to... Indeed, you gain some time, when warping is getting up to speed but it might be already too late...
*sigh*
You're doing these things in rapid succession. Bear in mind that Eve operates on 1-second "ticks".
First you hit align-to. When the next server tick occurs, two things will happen: 1. You break cloak and, 2. You begin accelerating toward your alignment target.
At this point you activate your cloak and MWD.
You have now only been visible for someone to initiate a lock on you for exactly one second, and the best they could have done in that one second - thanks to the server ticks - is initiate the lock on process.
There's no chance of their actually completing a lock on in a single server tick - can't be done.
At this stage you are now cloaked (which has reduced your max speed to far below what you need to enter warp) AND micro-warp driving (which is offsetting that velocity penalty).
10 seconds later, as your MWD cycle comes to an end, you decloak and hit warp-to. Done correctly, you will again spend only one "tick" uncloaked, which, again, means it was impossible to target you. "Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Speed Destiny
Cluelix
0
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Posted - 2014.05.31 20:02:00 -
[19] - Quote
Many thanks. Seem clear now, I will exercise with my Crane.
How confident can I be using this in low-sec space? Or should I wait for my Covert Ops Cloaking device first?
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
788
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Posted - 2014.05.31 20:08:00 -
[20] - Quote
Speed Destiny wrote:Many thanks. Seem clear now, I will exercise with my Crane.
How confident can I be using this in low-sec space? Or should I wait for my Covert Ops Cloaking device first?
Moderately. I would definitely practice in high sec. It IS possible to get hosed by some sort of "debris" being within 2500m of you after a jump. It does minimize your probability of loss, but still don't haul what you can't afford to lose.
Generally speaking the only "dangerous" jumps in low sec are on the high-low transition gate. "Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
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Speed Destiny
Cluelix
0
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Posted - 2014.05.31 20:41:00 -
[21] - Quote
So it would be:
A - align F1 - cloak ALT+1 - MWD wait for MWD cycle to accelerate speed to help warping next... F1 - decloak D - warp
Right? |
Speed Destiny
Cluelix
0
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Posted - 2014.05.31 20:49:00 -
[22] - Quote
What about when undocking?
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Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1983
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Posted - 2014.05.31 20:59:00 -
[23] - Quote
Speed Destiny wrote:Many thanks. Seem clear now, I will exercise with my Crane.
How confident can I be using this in low-sec space? Or should I wait for my Covert Ops Cloaking device first?
58.1634% confident.
seriously though, if you are using the cloak+mwd trick, the only thing that will get you in lowsec is a well organized gate camp. these are rarely seen in lowsec, except in systems like Tama, which connect a busy lowsec region with an even busier region in hisec.
in particular, the things that will kill you are: - sensor boosted fast locking ships (they will lock and warp scramble you in the few seconds that the cloak needs to activate) - disco battleships (battleships that use large smartbombs to uncloak anything in a 6km radius) - fast moving frigates with swarms of drones around them. (they will try to quickly fly to where you are to uncloak you).
there is no reliable way to get out of this kind of camp alive, other than scouting ahead or using less common entries into lowsec. nullsec has even greater problems waiting for you, which you should read up on once you get used to living in dangerous space.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1983
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Posted - 2014.05.31 21:07:00 -
[24] - Quote
Speed Destiny wrote:So it would be:
A - align F1 - cloak ALT+1 - MWD wait for MWD cycle to accelerate speed to help warping next... F1 - decloak D - warp
Right? right in theory. when hitting F1 for the first time, you should watch out for the "Interference from the cloaking you are doing is preventing your systems from functioning at this time" message. the game is a little laggy and sometimes it will not allow you to cloak too soon. if the message appears, hit F1 a second time, if it does not, everything is fine.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
788
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Posted - 2014.05.31 21:09:00 -
[25] - Quote
Speed Destiny wrote:What about when undocking?
Just use an instant-undock bookmark since you're already at speed. "Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1983
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Posted - 2014.05.31 21:17:00 -
[26] - Quote
Speed Destiny wrote:What about when undocking?
when you undock, you are not targetable for ten seconds or until you do something. you can however press Ctrl+Space to stop your ship to have a short look around. if you don't get bumped away from the sation, you can use this to look around and then redock (i have lost a ship by getting bumped off the undock once, so you are not 100% safe.)
the simplest method to undock safely is to create a bookmark a few hundred km away from the station in the exact undock direction. that way, you can warp instantly as soon as you are out of the station and align to something else when you are far enough away.
you should also make a docking bookmark as close to the station as possible and warp to that instead of just hitting the 'Dock' button.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
420
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Posted - 2014.05.31 21:46:00 -
[27] - Quote
When you undock, you are invulnerable to anything (including bumping) for 30 seconds, unless you do something other than stop your ship.
10 seconds is the session change timer, that needs to end before you can redock.
So if you undock with baddies around just to have a looksie, stop your ship and wait 15 seconds before pressing 'dock'. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3683
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Posted - 2014.05.31 22:37:00 -
[28] - Quote
How-To MWD-Cloak: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1802714#post1802714
In a ship with a Covert Ops Cloaking Device II (like a Blockade Runner), you do not need to do the MWD part, just initiate warp and cloak.
You don't need to cloak in hisec unless you are in a ship that someone might want to suicide-gank.
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Damon Messer
Miroirs
15
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Posted - 2014.06.01 02:53:00 -
[29] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Speed Destiny wrote:Many thanks. Seem clear now, I will exercise with my Crane.
How confident can I be using this in low-sec space? Or should I wait for my Covert Ops Cloaking device first?
Moderately. I would definitely practice in high sec. It IS possible to get hosed by some sort of "debris" being within 2500m of you after a jump. It does minimize your probability of loss, but still don't haul what you can't afford to lose. Generally speaking the only "dangerous" jumps in low sec are on the high-low transition gate.
you don't need the cloak+mwd trick on your crane because you can fit a covops cloak which lets you to warp cloaked and does not have a speed penalty.
but the cloak+mwd is useful on ships that cant fit covops |
Oraac Ensor
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
504
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Posted - 2014.06.01 09:12:00 -
[30] - Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uBcK_c8Gy4 |
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