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Paul Otichoda
Mine Your 0wn Business Spaceship Samurai
251
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Posted - 2014.06.04 12:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ok so I have an market alt in Amarr because I use it for organising supplies for my main, its stock because I can't afford to train it.
To pass the time I try to get it trading to see if I can make some money off it with about 21m ISK. I've come to the conclusion its pretty much impossible to make any real money from trading. Profit never seems to rise beyond a few hundred thousand. And that's avoiding the 0.01 battles that will generally demolish you're profits.
Sure if you're selling hundreds of orders and battleships you might be making some profit. But for the small timer it seems to be a dead-end.
I take it people would disagree with this view? |
Lord LazyGhost
The Bastards The Bastards.
356
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Posted - 2014.06.04 12:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
with out skills like you said your stock. or standings
the taxes your paying on this small transactions are what are going to be to rapeing the profit not the 0.1 isking.
if ur going to trade you need to spend a little time geting the basic skills up to give you a chance at competing with people with perfect skills and standings for very very low tax. |
Lord LazyGhost
The Bastards The Bastards.
356
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Posted - 2014.06.04 12:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
what you are saying is. I cant go and play football with man U becasue i never played football or practice my skills. no wonder you cant play with them. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3548
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Posted - 2014.06.04 12:42:00 -
[4] - Quote
You can make loads of isk, but you need to select your items carefully, especially being in Amarr where the market it so much slower moving. You'll certainly find it difficult to make substantial amounts of isk from 21m, since station trading usually involves making small amounts of profit but cycling quickly. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Paul Otichoda
Mine Your 0wn Business Spaceship Samurai
251
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Posted - 2014.06.04 12:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:You can make loads of isk, but you need to select your items carefully, especially being in Amarr where the market it so much slower moving.
Its better than Jita at least, in theory I could actually make a profit considering the buy/sell difference.
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Lord LazyGhost
The Bastards The Bastards.
356
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Posted - 2014.06.04 12:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
Paul Otichoda wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:You can make loads of isk, but you need to select your items carefully, especially being in Amarr where the market it so much slower moving. Its better than Jita at least, in theory I could actually make a profit considering the buy/sell difference. yes thats true the margins are a little larger but the volume is tiny in comparison.
station tradeing is all about volume sell sell sell, make 1m isk on 1 item or make 200k on 20 different items you make more money in the long run
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Carol Nits
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.06.04 13:32:00 -
[7] - Quote
Like many other activities in EVE, trade scales with effort. If you do it on an untrained char without standings and without research, do not expect it to be more profitable than lvl1 missions. |
Milla Stenier-Tian
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.06.04 13:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
Yep, trading is terrible. Stay away from Amarr. |
Paul Otichoda
Mine Your 0wn Business Spaceship Samurai
251
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Posted - 2014.06.04 14:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
Carol Nits wrote:Like many other activities in EVE, trade scales with effort. If you do it on an untrained char without standings and without research, do not expect it to be more profitable than lvl1 missions.
Ok then how can I make this occupation work?
Also how does standings effect trading?
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Carol Nits
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.06.04 15:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
Paul Otichoda wrote:Carol Nits wrote:Like many other activities in EVE, trade scales with effort. If you do it on an untrained char without standings and without research, do not expect it to be more profitable than lvl1 missions. Ok then how can I make this occupation work? Also how does standings effect trading? Every station in high and lowsec belongs to a certain corporation of a certain faction. Having high standings with the corporation and especially the faction will reduce your broker fees, thereby increasing your profit. I'm too lazy to look up the exact numbers, you will have to google it.
Aside from standings, there are the necessary skills to expand your business, including but not limited to Wholesale and Margin Trading. These will allow you to have more market orders up at the same time and leverage your capital more effectively.
Lastly, as has already beeen stated, you still need to find the right items to trade. Here is a good article on how to identify good items. |
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Isaac Schwartz
Caldari State Venture Capital
5
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Posted - 2014.06.04 15:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
Trading in my opinion is the single best way of generating ISK within New Eden, there is practically no limit to how much ISK you can make, but it depends entirely upon the items you are trading, your pricing strategy and the time you put into it. On patch day I flipped approximately 54B ISK in station trades for a profit of 3.4B, which is a very low ROI, but when you have this much capital, it's less work.
Normally traders with low capital like yourself will look for better return items, around the 20-40% mark.
Generally I have found that my trades in Jita will flip in 12-24 hours, Amarr 1-3 days and Regional non-hubs around 16 Days. So all I can say is your doing it wrong. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3549
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Posted - 2014.06.04 15:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
Paul Otichoda wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:You can make loads of isk, but you need to select your items carefully, especially being in Amarr where the market it so much slower moving. Its better than Jita at least, in theory I could actually make a profit considering the buy/sell difference. Like Lordy LazyGhost said, it's not all about profit margins per sale. Say you had 100m, and you could invest in Amarr, make 1 dale per day and make 10%, you are 10m up. But if you were in Jita, and you only made 2% but sold 10 items per day, you are 20m up. The thing to remember is that a profit margin, no matter how large is entirely irrelevant if nobody is buying your stock, so don;t get hung up on search for items that make you huge percentages. Look for reasonable percentages and large volumes.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
350125GO
Transcendent Sedition Protean Concept
65
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Posted - 2014.06.04 15:48:00 -
[13] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Paul Otichoda wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:You can make loads of isk, but you need to select your items carefully, especially being in Amarr where the market it so much slower moving. Its better than Jita at least, in theory I could actually make a profit considering the buy/sell difference. Like Lordy LazyGhost said, it's not all about profit margins per sale. Say you had 100m, and you could invest in Amarr, make 1 dale per day and make 10%, you are 10m up. But if you were in Jita, and you only made 2% but sold 10 items per day, you are 20m up. The thing to remember is that a profit margin, no matter how large is entirely irrelevant if nobody is buying your stock, so don;t get hung up on search for items that make you huge percentages. Look for reasonable percentages and large volumes.
Well there is a caveat to that, and it's time. The higher volume items will often have more competition and you'll need to watch your buy orders closely. You can look for higher profit items with lower volume if you're willing to wait a few days or even weeks for your orders to get filled.
Regardless, it doesn't take long to train the trade skills to lvl 3 or 4 on your alt. Pause training on your main for a few days and get it done. It's totally worth it and pays off further down your career when your pvp or pve main needs to unload some loot.
You're young, you'll adjust. I'm old, I'll get used to it. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
5420
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Posted - 2014.06.04 16:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
Carol Nits wrote:Like many other activities in EVE, trade scales with effort. If you do it on an untrained char without standings and without research, do not expect it to be more profitable than lvl1 missions.
That's why I make > 1 B a trade, with very untrained characters with no standings.
Stop working hard and start working well. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Scion Lex
Tungsten Carbonide Asset Management
69
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Posted - 2014.06.05 00:29:00 -
[15] - Quote
Paul Otichoda wrote:Ok so I have an market alt in Amarr because I use it for organising supplies for my main, its stock because I can't afford to train it.
To pass the time I try to get it trading to see if I can make some money off it with about 21m ISK. I've come to the conclusion its pretty much impossible to make any real money from trading. Profit never seems to rise beyond a few hundred thousand. And that's avoiding the 0.01 battles that will generally demolish you're profits.
Sure if you're selling hundreds of orders and battleships you might be making some profit. But for the small timer it seems to be a dead-end.
I take it people would disagree with this view?
Yep, total dead end.
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Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
311
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Posted - 2014.06.05 02:03:00 -
[16] - Quote
Your bank roll is the main issue.
Trading is based on % of profit. If your bank roll is small your profit is small.
Skills. Get some!
Knowledge of the market. This doesn't come over night. You need to know history of items. Changes to items. Tools/websites for the market.
I highly suggest you salvage for other players both increasing your isk and theirs per hour. It gives you a nice entrance into selling and prices on the market.
2-3 months of salvage for higher work and you will have both the bank roll and the knowledge needed. Get the skills needed during that time. When you have no work at any given time either hustle for more or start running missions for your chosen trade hub corp to improve your tax rate and reprocessing fees.
Market is the single best way to may isk in Eve by miles. I out preform my L4 misisons by about 5x using the market. (( With perfect L4 mission RS all L5 skilled )) I play market remotely while missioning just to make missioning worth it. You are currently doing it wrong. |
Felicity Love
It Was the Year 3030
1859
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Posted - 2014.06.05 05:04:00 -
[17] - Quote
Paul Otichoda wrote: Sure if you're selling hundreds of orders and battleships you might be making some profit. But for the small timer it seems to be a dead-end.
I take it people would disagree with this view?
Nope.
You just don't have nearly enough ISK to station trade at this time -- and I don't care what your expectations are.
Buy low (areas away from big trade hubs) and Sell high (haul your stuff to a big trade hub).
Start with simple, highly consumable stuff -- like salvage or ammo. It ain't glamorous, but you will learn what you need to learn -- and you won't need a very big ship, either.
"HTFU ! " -á--- -áKatee Sackhoff, aka "The F-Bomb Queen of EVE" ! !-á
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Immortal Chrono Pimpin
Vengance Inc.
78
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Posted - 2014.06.05 05:27:00 -
[18] - Quote
Welp to make the real money you get 6 accounts,
1 in each hub 1 Freighter pilot 1 Hyhena to web your freighter
Then you trade between hubs loading the freighter up not worrying about getting ganked. |
Isaac Schwartz
Caldari State Venture Capital
5
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Posted - 2014.06.05 07:41:00 -
[19] - Quote
Immortal Chrono Pimpin wrote:Welp to make the real money you get 6 accounts,
1 in each hub 1 Freighter pilot 1 Hyhena to web your freighter
Then you trade between hubs loading the freighter up not worrying about getting ganked.
Pro Tip: It's called Red Frog |
Lahingingel
KolliURG
0
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Posted - 2014.06.05 11:02:00 -
[20] - Quote
Immortal Chrono Pimpin wrote:Welp to make the real money you get 6 accounts,
1 in each hub 1 Freighter pilot 1 Hyhena to web your freighter
Then you trade between hubs loading the freighter up not worrying about getting ganked.
I count only 2 accounts in it. There is three slots per account ;) It is just annoying to juggle with alts on same account. |
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Samroski
Games Inc. The Night Crew Alliance
456
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Posted - 2014.06.05 12:22:00 -
[21] - Quote
Felicity Love wrote: Buy low (areas away from big trade hubs) and Sell high (haul your stuff to a big trade hub).
Or do the opposite. Buy low at a major trade hub, and take it to minor hubs (e.g. stations with level 4 combat mission agents) where you can sell it high. Any colour you like. |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
1126
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 12:58:00 -
[22] - Quote
You want intra- or inter-region trading, aka arbitrage trading. Buy cheap at one location, sell for a profit elsewhere. The margins are often great than actual station trading and the tax from low standings is more or less irrelevant. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2006
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Posted - 2014.06.05 13:49:00 -
[23] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Carol Nits wrote:Like many other activities in EVE, trade scales with effort. If you do it on an untrained char without standings and without research, do not expect it to be more profitable than lvl1 missions. That's why I make > 1 B a trade, with very untrained characters with no standings. Stop working hard and start working well. did you or did you not spend lots of time and effort on analyzing the market, writing software and otherwise gain experience before you found the opportunities to "work well"? because that's what is generally called "working hard"...
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
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