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Escaping wars decs - a kill rights based solution

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Cmdr Sy	Posted - 2006.06.11 09:42:00 - [1] It kinda sucks when you issue a war dec and find ex-targets with a brand new NPC ticker. So instead of filing exploit petitions (let's be honest, there's no point), how about they stay war-decced for the remaining duration of that week's war fee, until the next bill is due? It would be a character-specific thing, for example a player leaving a corp nine days into a war, would remain a war target for a further five days, even in his NPC corp. I envisage this being the case for anyone joining a new player-corp as well. The war-evading player would be unable to engage his former war enemies until they engage him. It would be rather like Kill Rights in terms of game mechanics, and much of the code could be reused. Thoughts? Please no "omg licence to grief noobs" stuff. I am talking about making people who leave a corp under a war dec a target for the remaining duration of that week's bill - hardly a massive removal of liberties, and payment for that sort of behaviour is years overdue.
Lorth	Posted - 2006.06.11 09:54:00 - [2] Your going to get so flamed for even suggesting a way to force PVP on the unwilling.... Carebear stare.
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.06.11 09:59:00 - [3] Originally by: Lorth Carebear stare. 5 4 3 2 1 ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT! Originally by: Jenny Spitfire EvE is sadistically and masochistically satisfying.
DKDane	Posted - 2006.06.11 10:22:00 - [4] not every1 wanna PvP in this game
Kelron Queldine	Posted - 2006.06.11 10:30:00 - [5] Originally by: DKDane not every1 wanna PvP in this game But we reserve a special circle of hell for them Seriously though, I know not everyone wants to PvP, but it is an unavoidable part of the game, even in an NPC corp in high sec you can still be suicide ganked. I think this is quite a good idea, but maybe just change it to another 2 days after leaving the corp, or something. --------------------------- Signatures are for the weak.
Cmdr Sy	Posted - 2006.06.11 10:37:00 - [6] Edited by: Cmdr Sy on 11/06/2006 10:38:01 I understand that not everyone wants to PVP, and this is NOT a war dec mechanism against NPC corps. My suggestion would simply impose a cost on war-avoiding corp-jumpers. At the moment, there is no drawback whatsoever to leaving a corp to evade a war dec. Resign roles, wait 24 hours, click the button and commence smacktalk. It's all reward, no risk, no penalty. This way if they want to avoid PVP (the consequences of their actions, perhaps?) they can stay docked for those few days longer.
Winged Messenger	Posted - 2006.06.11 10:40:00 - [7] This is a GREAT idea........as long as you make it so that you can only declare war on a corp that has same number of members that you have and that have the same time experience you have. Fair is fair after all.
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.06.11 11:16:00 - [8] Yeah, implement it, but I'd make it a fixed time (i'd probably say 72 hours after leaving) rather than something relative to the war cost. Also, I wouldn't stop them from firing on enemy war targets for the remainder of this time. The carebearism argument in this is pretty much defending corp-hopping exploits: they deserve to get shot for 3days. Also, jenny, carebear stare doesn't suit you
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.06.11 11:22:00 - [9] Originally by: Winged Messenger This is a GREAT idea........as long as you make it so that you can only declare war on a corp that has same number of members that you have and that have the same time experience you have. Fair is fair after all. Even then you'd still get whining. Long, long ago I had 2 friends with me and wardecced a more experienced corporation. I had my first battleship and they didn't have much money either. We won easily. Maybe you'll have to test the IQ of everyone in each corporation and average them to make sure they're similar? --Proud member of the [23]-- -WTB Platinum Technite, WTS Nanotransistors, Heavy Electron II, 100mn AB II-
DKDane	Posted - 2006.06.11 11:27:00 - [10] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Winged Messenger This is a GREAT idea........as long as you make it so that you can only declare war on a corp that has same number of members that you have and that have the same time experience you have. Fair is fair after all. Even then you'd still get whining. Long, long ago I had 2 friends with me and wardecced a more experienced corporation. I had my first battleship and they didn't have much money either. We won easily. Maybe you'll have to test the IQ of everyone in each corporation and average them to make sure they're similar? or maybe measure the lenght of their manhood

Queen Hades	Posted - 2006.06.11 11:28:00 - [11] Since corp - hopping is our only defense against war decs (which are in fact a pure griefers tool!) I'm strongly against that. In fact the pure existence of the war dec mechanism is the only reason I did not pay a whole year of subscription fee in advance. I want to be able to cancel my account should I ever get wardecced so I don't have to pay for just beeing able to stay docked for weeks or maybe months, just because some 13 year old griefer was bored. In real life I have to work for the money CCP gets. Why should I pay for the griefers?
Leandro Salazar	Posted - 2006.06.11 11:44:00 - [12] So that a griefer can deny a carebear his fun is fine, but that a carebear can do the same to the griefer is not? I sense a bit of a bias here :P --------- Originally by: General Apocalypse the game is very well balanced
Cmdr Sy	Posted - 2006.06.11 11:47:00 - [13] Originally by: Winged Messenger This is a GREAT idea........as long as you make it so that you can only declare war on a corp that has same number of members that you have and that have the same time experience you have. Fair is fair after all. Our current war has us outnumbered 3 to 1, the last major fleet battle we fought saw us outnumbered 3 to 1, the set of wars beforehand had our corp war-decced by 8 others (we got "griefed", they got owned). There were legitimate political reasons in each case. Not every Empire war is a carebear grief. Very few ever are. Being forced to stay docked for weeks or even months is an exaggeration too. I'm talking about corp-jumpers staying flagged as war targets for a week at most. Example: Day 0: Corp A declares war on Corp B Day 2: Lamer leaves Corp B, remains a war target until Day 7 Day 7: War extended for a further week, but Lamer no longer war target It works the same way if a player leaves the corp that issues a war dec. If anyone on either side leaves after CONCORD sends out the mail, they are committed for the remainder of the week, and can be shot at. It's not griefing, it's plugging a confirmed exploit. The only right this removes is one which no-one has anyway.
Ultroth	Posted - 2006.06.11 11:47:00 - [14] Originally by: Queen Hades Since corp - hopping is our only defense against war decs (which are in fact a pure griefers tool!) I'm strongly against that. In fact the pure existence of the war dec mechanism is the only reason I did not pay a whole year of subscription fee in advance. I want to be able to cancel my account should I ever get wardecced so I don't have to pay for just beeing able to stay docked for weeks or maybe months, just because some 13 year old griefer was bored. In real life I have to work for the money CCP gets. Why should I pay for the griefers? Carebearing is an illness, pvp is the cure and i made you an appointment with Dr Tek-Too Amo, please advise on location so a home visit can be arranged "It's better to stay silent and appear stupid, than to open your mouth and leave no doubt!"
Xenios Alfar	Posted - 2006.06.11 11:50:00 - [15] Originally by: Queen Hades Since corp - hopping is our only defense against war decs (which are in fact a pure griefers tool!) I'm strongly against that. In fact the pure existence of the war dec mechanism is the only reason I did not pay a whole year of subscription fee in advance. I want to be able to cancel my account should I ever get wardecced so I don't have to pay for just beeing able to stay docked for weeks or maybe months, just because some 13 year old griefer was bored. In real life I have to work for the money CCP gets. Why should I pay for the griefers? So anyone who wardecs anyone is a griefer now. Go back to Crielere. Hypothetical Scenario: A Member of Corp A annoys a member of Corp B, the member of Corp B is in a position of authority and issues a war dec. Corp B is therefore griefing Corp A by your standards.. Oh please. i should war dec you just for saying that =/.
Queen Hades	Posted - 2006.06.11 11:53:00 - [16] Originally by: Xenios Alfar Originally by: Queen Hades Since corp - hopping is our only defense against war decs (which are in fact a pure griefers tool!) I'm strongly against that. In fact the pure existence of the war dec mechanism is the only reason I did not pay a whole year of subscription fee in advance. I want to be able to cancel my account should I ever get wardecced so I don't have to pay for just beeing able to stay docked for weeks or maybe months, just because some 13 year old griefer was bored. In real life I have to work for the money CCP gets. Why should I pay for the griefers? So anyone who wardecs anyone is a griefer now. Go back to Crielere. Hypothetical Scenario: A Member of Corp A annoys a member of Corp B, the member of Corp B is in a position of authority and issues a war dec. Corp B is therefore griefing Corp A by your standards.. Oh please. i should war dec you just for saying that =/. YOUR example would be a legitimate war dec. But what makes people refrain from just war deccing ANY corp that has younger and fewer members than his own?
Cmdr Sy	Posted - 2006.06.11 11:56:00 - [17] Originally by: Queen Hades YOUR example would be a legitimate war dec. But what makes people refrain from just war deccing ANY corp that has younger and fewer members than his own? Not much, and very few ever do because it's an insanely boring waste of time. It is not in actual fact a real problem in EVE. Most Empire wars have reasons behind them.
Xenios Alfar	Posted - 2006.06.11 12:05:00 - [18] Originally by: Queen Hades Originally by: Xenios Alfar Originally by: Queen Hades Since corp - hopping is our only defense against war decs (which are in fact a pure griefers tool!) I'm strongly against that. In fact the pure existence of the war dec mechanism is the only reason I did not pay a whole year of subscription fee in advance. I want to be able to cancel my account should I ever get wardecced so I don't have to pay for just beeing able to stay docked for weeks or maybe months, just because some 13 year old griefer was bored. In real life I have to work for the money CCP gets. Why should I pay for the griefers? So anyone who wardecs anyone is a griefer now. Go back to Crielere. Hypothetical Scenario: A Member of Corp A annoys a member of Corp B, the member of Corp B is in a position of authority and issues a war dec. Corp B is therefore griefing Corp A by your standards.. Oh please. i should war dec you just for saying that =/. YOUR example would be a legitimate war dec. But what makes people refrain from just war deccing ANY corp that has younger and fewer members than his own? I can understand a corp Deccing a mining corp for profit but why war dec something thats not profitable after all the wardec does cost =/, and plus if its done to turn players away or annoy players then they can get banned
Keta Min	Posted - 2006.06.11 12:41:00 - [19] Make it so.
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.06.11 12:50:00 - [20] Originally by: Queen Hades Originally by: Xenios Alfar Originally by: Queen Hades Since corp - hopping is our only defense against war decs (which are in fact a pure griefers tool!) I'm strongly against that. In fact the pure existence of the war dec mechanism is the only reason I did not pay a whole year of subscription fee in advance. I want to be able to cancel my account should I ever get wardecced so I don't have to pay for just beeing able to stay docked for weeks or maybe months, just because some 13 year old griefer was bored. In real life I have to work for the money CCP gets. Why should I pay for the griefers? So anyone who wardecs anyone is a griefer now. Go back to Crielere. Hypothetical Scenario: A Member of Corp A annoys a member of Corp B, the member of Corp B is in a position of authority and issues a war dec. Corp B is therefore griefing Corp A by your standards.. Oh please. i should war dec you just for saying that =/. YOUR example would be a legitimate war dec. But what makes people refrain from just war deccing ANY corp that has younger and fewer members than his own? Nothing but boredom. Eve 4tw.

DarkElf	Posted - 2006.06.11 13:32:00 - [21] Edited by: DarkElf on 11/06/2006 13:32:53 Originally by: DKDane not every1 wanna PvP in this game Why not? Sorry but eve is such a basic crappy game without pvp. may as well play space invaders. i like the idea
vile56	Posted - 2006.06.11 15:54:00 - [22] great idea. I think it should not be the full lenght of the war remaining tbh. a couple of days seems good to me. But if they rejoin the corp after the dec is gone, and regain all the previous roles/or even some. A new week of free dec should be awarded.
DarkElf	Posted - 2006.06.11 16:15:00 - [23] Edited by: DarkElf on 11/06/2006 16:16:23 to be honest if the person rejoins the corp after the dec have ended then if you petition them ccp will do something about it as that's blatant war avoidence. the trouble normally is that no1 can prove whether someone is leaving a corp because they want to or because of the war but in that case then it's kinda obvious and devs will take action.
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.06.11 16:21:00 - [24] Originally by: DKDane not every1 wanna PvP in this game Well you're going to PvP whether you like it or not, and whether you realize it or not. People need to stop thinking PvP only applies to shooting at someone.
Akurion	Posted - 2006.06.11 16:35:00 - [25] Originally by: HippoKing Yeah, implement it, but I'd make it a fixed time (i'd probably say 72 hours after leaving) rather than something relative to the war cost. Also, I wouldn't stop them from firing on enemy war targets for the remainder of this time. The carebearism argument in this is pretty much defending corp-hopping exploits: they deserve to get shot for 3days. Also, jenny, carebear stare doesn't suit you I'm not sure I see how this is an exploit. It's a legitimate use of corporate mechanics. It's certainly no less of an exploit than suicide-ganking in hi-sec and using an alt to collect loot, but the general consensus on the boards seems to be that that is a valid game mechanic. It takes 24 hours to quit a corporation, and frankly if people are quitting the corporation you war-decced, it doesn't sound like it was a very fair match-up to begin with.
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.06.11 16:39:00 - [26] Originally by: Akurion Originally by: HippoKing Yeah, implement it, but I'd make it a fixed time (i'd probably say 72 hours after leaving) rather than something relative to the war cost. Also, I wouldn't stop them from firing on enemy war targets for the remainder of this time. The carebearism argument in this is pretty much defending corp-hopping exploits: they deserve to get shot for 3days. Also, jenny, carebear stare doesn't suit you I'm not sure I see how this is an exploit. It's a legitimate use of corporate mechanics. It's certainly no less of an exploit than suicide-ganking in hi-sec and using an alt to collect loot, but the general consensus on the boards seems to be that that is a valid game mechanic. It takes 24 hours to quit a corporation, and frankly if people are quitting the corporation you war-decced, it doesn't sound like it was a very fair match-up to begin with. If someone corp-hops to avoid you more than once, you can petition them, and they get locked in the last corp you decced to get them. I guess that pretty much means its classified as a exploit. At least thats how it used to work: haven't seen it in a while
DarkElf	Posted - 2006.06.11 16:39:00 - [27] it is an exploit because ccp says it's an exploit. the problem is you can't dec noob corps (obviously has to be this way) so it's too easy to get decc'd, leave corp, join back after dec is over. so war dec avoidence has to be an exploit (which it is). otherwise the pvp element of eve would diminish if it was that easy to avoid war. war forced on ppl is fun
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.06.11 16:39:00 - [28] Originally by: HippoKing Also, jenny, carebear stare doesn't suit you Deep down, I am really a . But repetitive gang ganks in 0.4 can really change a to a . /me needs to read Holy Scriptures to be a again. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT! Originally by: Jenny Spitfire EvE is sadistically and masochistically satisfying.
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.06.11 16:41:00 - [29] War dodging is the most ill-form of alliance warfare. It is almost as bad as all the dirty tactics of Empire warfare. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT! Originally by: Jenny Spitfire EvE is sadistically and masochistically satisfying.
Lil Jess	Posted - 2006.06.11 18:09:00 - [30] Ok so the person hiding in this npc corp really doesn't want to fight you. If this was implemented (which it won't be) said person doesn't log on / undock for 5 days. If that makes you happy as a player theres something wrong with you, it certainly hasn't made the other player happy. This is a game which implies we should all be having fun most (some?) of the time.



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