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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
569
|
Posted - 2014.06.16 11:53:00 -
[121] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:
The +3 and +4 stat implants are IMHO the #1 problem that railroads new players into going PvE-only and then predictably quitting because the PvE is so boring. I am very much of the opinion that everyone should just get +4 to all stats, and that stats on genolutions/pirate implants should be removed entirely. The current +5s can then be left in the game as +1s.
+3's are relatively cheap and here's an idea...a tutorial mission that teaches players to get their pod out when the ship explodes...it's not difficult.
Here's the gist for any new players reading. You know you are scrammed, you know you can't escape so align to a safe spot/gate you can run through and then keep hitting the 's' key (that's the warp hot key). Remember when you get to the gate (if you chose that) you are warping to it not jumping through so select to jump through gate whilst in flight. Now run like hell for home and you should save your pod. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
7062
|
Posted - 2014.06.16 11:56:00 -
[122] - Quote
Xequecal wrote: When you already have a bunch of SP? No, it doesn't. When you're just starting, have no SP, and can't do **** in this game other than sacrificial tackle, it's a big deal. Do you have any idea how useless T1 lasers and ACs are? A little offtopic, but I'm also thinking the reason Gallente is the most popular PvP race by far is because their weapon systems are the only ones that are even remotely functional at T1, which means everyone starts out with them.
That's because both of those weapon systems desperately need rebalanced. You are right, T1 lasers and T1 autocannons are worthless.
But that has nothing to do with this, if you ask me. +5s shaving a dozen hours off of training for T2 pulse lasers is NOT going to help a new player. Nevermind how he could have afforded them in the first place.
Rebalancing them so that their T1 versions aren't worthless would go a long way further, if helping newbies is your intent.
Quote: The +3 and +4 stat implants are IMHO the #1 problem that railroads new players into going PvE-only and then predictably quitting because the PvE is so boring. I am very much of the opinion that everyone should just get +4 to all stats, and that stats on genolutions/pirate implants should be removed entirely. The current +5s can then be left in the game as +1s.
Jump clones only let you PvP once every 24 hours and you also have to grind up the 8.0 standing to set them up at all, not a trivial task for a new player.
If you ask me, the real problem with new players being railroaded into PvE is that new players start in highsec and in NPC corps. There, the weight of the voices they are going to hear is from the kind of people who stay in NPC corps and live in highsec.
Those people are filled to bursting with "you can't", and "you have to", and in order to not explode, they have to spew it all onto anyone they meet. They infect new players with this nonsense. That's why people get burned out, because you have jackasses outright telling them to do the things that don't lead anywhere. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Psychotic Monk for CSM9. |
Bohneik Itohn
Amarrian Salvage Gnomes and Associates
254
|
Posted - 2014.06.16 13:40:00 -
[123] - Quote
I don't get how this was lost in the noise so I'll say it again....
Learning implants allow new players to earn more isk quickly, and jump clones allow them to protect their learning implants so they don't have to risk an expensive investment to enjoy PvP.
PvP cost is not punitive if you make a lot of isk. How do you make a lot of isk without spending a lot of time devoting your gameplay to that? Training skills that allow you to make isk quick. Market skills, PI, exploration skills, whatever. Money comes in, new players feel space-rich, they buy ships and fly like drunken monkeys. I know I do.
It's all win. People who hide in the station snuggling their +5's weren't going to leave it regardless of their implants because if they didn't have the expensive implants they weren't willing to risk they'd have an expensive ship they weren't willing to risk, or faction/deadspace modules they weren't willing to risk, etc.... One monetary excuse is as good as another and the isk was going to be spent one way or another. Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!-á - Freyya
Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help. |
Vincintius Agrippa
F L O O D
55
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 01:56:00 -
[124] - Quote
Most people who start this game off don't even know what the **** a jump clone is, nor are most aware that implants exist. Most don't even understand how the initial attributes we select affect training time among many many many other things.
If they do now, either:
1. A friend invited them to play or 2, They're an alt.
Lets face it, there are guys who play this game that have 20 or more alts. I mean, the dedication some people show to alt farming is just amazing.........
Only YOU can prevent internet bullying! |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
3018
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 02:05:00 -
[125] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Tipa Riot wrote: BTW, in contrast to your examples for change requests, the removal of learning implants would not harm any part of New Eden's population.
Well, except, you know, the people who sell those. It's not like they come from nowhere and cost nothing, you realize. Implants are a fairly important part of the LP economy. Accepted. They can be replaced by learning boosters with limited duration (e.g. weeks)
That would be even better. I desperately need to see the screaming and crying that takes place on the forums on behalf of 'new players' after the old players get done determining the market price of learning aids with a time limit on them. "i advice you to go spit on the back of someone else because you are fall on the wrong horse." - Meio Rayliegh |
Bohneik Itohn
Amarrian Salvage Gnomes and Associates
266
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 02:08:00 -
[126] - Quote
Vincintius Agrippa wrote:Most people who start this game off don't even know what the **** a jump clone is, nor are most aware that implants exist. Most don't even understand how the initial attributes we select affect training time among many many many other things.
If they do now, either:
1. A friend invited them to play or 2, They're an alt.
Lets face it, there are guys who play this game that have 20 or more alts. I mean, the dedication some people show to alt farming is just amazing.........
Jump clones were on my radar within my first week. It's a pretty obvious feature in Eve that opens a lot of doors for new players. If you don't learn about jump clones within your first couple months I would have to question whether you're actively playing or napping at the keyboard in an asteroid field. Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!-á - Freyya
Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help. |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
3018
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 02:08:00 -
[127] - Quote
Bohneik Itohn wrote:How do you make a lot of isk without spending a lot of time devoting your gameplay to that?
Buy PLEX from CCP and sell it on the in-game market. No gameplay required.
"i advice you to go spit on the back of someone else because you are fall on the wrong horse." - Meio Rayliegh |
Bohneik Itohn
Amarrian Salvage Gnomes and Associates
266
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 02:26:00 -
[128] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:Bohneik Itohn wrote:How do you make a lot of isk without spending a lot of time devoting your gameplay to that? Buy PLEX from CCP and sell it on the in-game market. No gameplay required.
Also the method of nancies, pantywaisters, and slugabeds. A lot of people prefer the satisfaction that comes with knowing that you worked hard to earn the tens or hundreds of millions of isk that just went pop. Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!-á - Freyya
Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help. |
Erutpar Ambient
The Flying Tigers Black Core Alliance
175
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 06:00:00 -
[129] - Quote
Vincintius Agrippa wrote:The only people this benefits would be those who have already invested the x years of sp and dont care anymore.
That's assuming that if they removed learning implants, they'd leave the attributes at a non-implanted level. The way i see it, why wouldn't they just remove implants across the board and raise everyone's base attributes by +5 each. That doesn't negatively impact anyone.
Bohneik Itohn wrote:IPeople who hide in the station snuggling their +5's weren't going to leave it regardless of their implants because if they didn't have the expensive implants they weren't willing to risk they'd have an expensive ship they weren't willing to risk, or faction/deadspace modules they weren't willing to risk, etc.... Just because you have an expensive ship that you're not willing to risk Doesn't mean you don't have a cheap ship you are willing to risk. You can change ships in the blink of an eye. But you can't change implant clones in the blink of an eye. So why risk a 10-20mil frigate when you're clone costs 100mil+?
To a lot of people, pvp opportunities don't come around very often. Maybe once every 3-4 days. So why would i sit around bearing it up without implants for a fight that i can just avoid once every few days? My clone cost isn't quite so high as to prevent me from doing pvp even in a frigate. What does though is the fact that i have to clone jump out of my Learning and Mining Foreman implant clones for 20 hours. So pretty much if i choose to engage in pvp, I'm stuck out of mining for the rest of the day. And all for something that happens so infrequently.
Bohneik Itohn wrote: Jump clones were on my radar within my first week. It's a pretty obvious feature in Eve that opens a lot of doors for new players. If you don't learn about jump clones within your first couple months I would have to question whether you're actively playing or napping at the keyboard in an asteroid field.
The jump clone mechanic is pretty complex. The whole +8 standing for high sec thing is a pretty huge hurdle to jump over.... Let me guess, now you're going to tell me that using a Jump Clone Corp service was also on your radar within the first week AND not only did you realize the benefit it holds for new players, you actually could utilize it for something? My first few weeks was spent understanding the more basic mechanics like using a single weapon system and how tank and capacitor worked.
Seriously though, the Jump Clone feature is very complicated. I wouldn't call it very new player friendly in the least. |
Shivanthar
Ace's and Eight's Brothers of Tangra
105
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 07:33:00 -
[130] - Quote
Some people are making up numbers carelessly. My word goes to ones who says "+5 is needless, +3 is adequate" Did you guys ever put some effort to look at how much time actually it penaltize you when you downgrade from +5 to +3's? Difference between +5's and +3's is that it trains half a month less per 6 month, and a whole month less in 1 year for optimized plans. For players like me around ~70 mil. SP and for my optimized skill queue, it is 94 skills trained (29 unique skills to level 4). Triple or even quadrupple that number for a new player. Pointless argument... I am positive with OP. These implants should be internally added to everyone and all of them should be totally removed from the game. Half the lies they tell about me aren't true. |
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
570
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 09:23:00 -
[131] - Quote
Shivanthar wrote:Some people are making up numbers carelessly. My word goes to ones who say "+5 is needless, +3 is adequate" Did you guys ever put some effort to look at how much time actually it penaltize you when you downgrade from +5 to +3's? Difference between +5's and +3's is that it trains half a month less per 6 month, and a whole month less in 1 year for optimized plans. For players like me around ~70 mil. SP and for my optimized skill queue, it is 94 skills trained (29 unique skills to level 4). Triple or even quadrupple that number for a new player. Pointless argument... I am positive with OP. These implants should be internally added to everyone and all of them should be totally removed from the game.
Edit: Why should numbers be added instead of removed? Because you would penaltize people who trained without them, while there were people training with them. This is only valid if implants were removed and numbers weren't added internally.
Yes, I have put time into looking at it and yes there is a difference between using +5's and +3's. There is also a difference between choice and risk. That is the whole point, tangible benefits for the risks and investments you take and make. So tell me why a pilot who is willing to risk higher implants during flight shouldn't gain the benefit of better training time? Also explain why that month less training (assuming you got the numbers right) is such a big deal? It really isn't the amount of SP you have it is how you use those SP. |
Shivanthar
Ace's and Eight's Brothers of Tangra
105
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 10:03:00 -
[132] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Shivanthar wrote:Some people are making up numbers carelessly. My word goes to ones who say "+5 is needless, +3 is adequate" Did you guys ever put some effort to look at how much time actually it penaltize you when you downgrade from +5 to +3's? Difference between +5's and +3's is that it trains half a month less per 6 month, and a whole month less in 1 year for optimized plans. For players like me around ~70 mil. SP and for my optimized skill queue, it is 94 skills trained (29 unique skills to level 4). Triple or even quadrupple that number for a new player. Pointless argument... I am positive with OP. These implants should be internally added to everyone and all of them should be totally removed from the game.
Edit: Why should numbers be added instead of removed? Because you would penaltize people who trained without them, while there were people training with them. This is only valid if implants were removed and numbers weren't added internally. Yes, I have put time into looking at it and yes there is a difference between using +5's and +3's. There is also a difference between choice and risk. That is the whole point, tangible benefits for the risks and investments you take and make. So tell me why a pilot who is willing to risk higher implants during flight shouldn't gain the benefit of better training time? Also explain why that month less training (assuming you got the numbers right) is such a big deal? It really isn't the amount of SP you have it is how you use those SP.
SP is the name of the advancement for this game. Without it, everything else is pointless. So every single bit of less training time is a big deal. You start to underestimate the power of training time, you start to widen the gap. Time is money my friend. If you don't care about that deal, it is your choice to do so.
My main idea and argument is that implants that doesn't actively contribute to fights and modifies the most powerful thing in this game are pointless. Once in the past, the very same argument was brought up once more and the final result was the removal of some learning skills from the game. Training time should be the same for all, risk vs reward part should be shifted from SP speed to some useful combat attribute.
Not everyone of course, but mostly new pvp'ers or ones shifting from pve to pvp have fear of loosing some of their SP speed and yes, even this is one of the many sources of discouragement, nonethless it is better starting cutting those discouragement parts one by one.
Think reverse, if everyone would be able to train 2700 sp/hr equally, what would that do bad to Eve? What is so bad about this? I see more advantages than adverse effects, if any. Half the lies they tell about me aren't true. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
570
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 11:12:00 -
[133] - Quote
Shivanthar wrote:Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Shivanthar wrote:Some people are making up numbers carelessly. My word goes to ones who say "+5 is needless, +3 is adequate" Did you guys ever put some effort to look at how much time actually it penaltize you when you downgrade from +5 to +3's? Difference between +5's and +3's is that it trains half a month less per 6 month, and a whole month less in 1 year for optimized plans. For players like me around ~70 mil. SP and for my optimized skill queue, it is 94 skills trained (29 unique skills to level 4). Triple or even quadrupple that number for a new player. Pointless argument... I am positive with OP. These implants should be internally added to everyone and all of them should be totally removed from the game.
Edit: Why should numbers be added instead of removed? Because you would penaltize people who trained without them, while there were people training with them. This is only valid if implants were removed and numbers weren't added internally. Yes, I have put time into looking at it and yes there is a difference between using +5's and +3's. There is also a difference between choice and risk. That is the whole point, tangible benefits for the risks and investments you take and make. So tell me why a pilot who is willing to risk higher implants during flight shouldn't gain the benefit of better training time? Also explain why that month less training (assuming you got the numbers right) is such a big deal? It really isn't the amount of SP you have it is how you use those SP. SP is the name of the advancement for this game. Without it, everything else is pointless. So every single bit of less training time is a big deal. You start to underestimate the power of training time, you start to widen the gap. Time is money my friend. If you don't care about that deal, it is your choice to do so. My main idea and argument is that implants that doesn't actively contribute to fights and modifies the most powerful thing in this game are pointless. Once in the past, the very same argument was brought up once more and the final result was the removal of some learning skills from the game. Training time should be the same for all, risk vs reward part should be shifted from SP speed to some useful combat attribute. Not everyone of course, but mostly new pvp'ers or ones shifting from pve to pvp have fear of loosing some of their SP speed and yes, even this is one of the many sources of discouragement, nonethless it is better starting cutting those discouragement parts one by one. "Choice and risk" part. This is where these implants are creating an adverse effect actually. - OP says he stays in station. Even he logs off, he uses +5's passively without any risk involved. No risk, +5 training. - A player in null, actively participating in warfare is the most opposite side of the story. He won't purhcase +5's because he is being podded every other day. He is playing with much greater risk, so he gets +0 ones. See the pattern? These implants are simply breaking risk vs reward rule. They're working reverse. Think reverse, if everyone would be able to train 2700 sp/hr equally, what would that do bad to Eve? What is so bad about this? I see more advantages than adverse effects, if any.
SP is nothing but a means to an end. I have been here 9 months now and have three alts, two of which I can plex each months through in game business, exploration, combat anoms, invention, PI, manufacture. As I said I've only ever used +3's. I perform most of these activities with the minimum access level skills trained to level V. SP is not a measure of your character, what you do with those SP is. The training implants bring a different kind of risk/reward but it is just that all the same. Taking them out and just adding +5 to everyone is a way of increasing training speed, sure it isn't a pay to win method as the usual threads for increased SP gain are but it is a thread to gain SP faster all the same. The current rate of SP gain is fine and lets you do all sorts of good things at relatively low SP cost. The implants allow a choice in a slight increase of SP gain based on the risk you are willing to take.
Never risk more than you are willing to and you'll have much more fun. Also you will rapidly increase the amount of isk you make you'll find that the amount of isk you will risk rises exponentially.
Also I come back to the usual thing with implants. Learn to get your pod out, it is a key skill if you expect PvP and will cut drastically the number of times you will lose implants. If a pilot is serious about PvP combat over anything else then they will be risking far more expensive implants on a daily basis so you could see the risk of losing attribute implants as 'training wheels' towards the risks you'll be taking in future. |
Torsnk
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
40
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 12:05:00 -
[134] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: Also I come back to the usual thing with implants. Learn to get your pod out, it is a key skill if you expect PvP and will cut drastically the number of times you will lose implants.
How often do you PvP in null sec? Are you familiar with warp disruption fields (a.k.a. "bubbles")? Bubbles are an area of effect mechanic used by interdictors and heavy interdictors which prevent everyone (except for Interceptors) from warping while inside the bubble. These bubbles are an integral part of PvP in null sec, and as such are used heavily.
If your ship is killed inside a bubble (which happens very often in null sec) your pod is also in that bubble and you can't warp off. As such, whenever you PvP in null sec you have to operate under the assumption that if your ship explodes your pod is pretty much gone too. It doesn't always happen that way, but it's a logical going-in assumption of risk that you must take into account.
So whenever there is a "cheap frigate gang", or some other fun PvP activity that would otherwise be an opportunity to have fun at low risk, the option isn't really that appealing for someone who either has to risk implants that cost 10-20x the price of the ship they're flying or lose skill point gain in order to jump to a clean clone.
I agree with you in that, PvP in low or high sec is a different story altogether. However, the way PvP works in null sec drives the implant mechanic in a different way.
On top of that, there are also bombs in nullsec (weapons which apply a fairly significant amount of damage indiscriminately to a spherical area). As such, if a bombing run is executed properly, it is quite possible to lose your ship and your pod nearly instantaneously. This, in combination with warp disruption fields (a.k.a. "bubbles") significantly increases the likelihood that your pod (and implants) are not likely to survive.
As such, risk vs. reward is completely reversed. Learning implants work effectively whether the player is docked or undocked. If you remain docked (and take no risk) you are rewarded equally. If you undock, you can only lose SP/isk and have no incentive to fly cheap ships, because any inherent "cheapness" is lost when accounting for the destruction of implants. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 12:06:00 -
[135] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: Also I come back to the usual thing with implants. Learn to get your pod out, it is a key skill if you expect PvP and will cut drastically the number of times you will lose implants.
You are not doing PvP in Nullsec, right?
I'm my own NPC alt. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
7170
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 12:22:00 -
[136] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: Also I come back to the usual thing with implants. Learn to get your pod out, it is a key skill if you expect PvP and will cut drastically the number of times you will lose implants.
You are not doing PvP in Nullsec, right?
Neither are you, NPC alt.
But as far as "bubbles!", if you're going to take a fight in null, then nothing stops you from jumping into a clean clone. It's routine to do so, in fact. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Psychotic Monk for CSM9. |
Shivanthar
Ace's and Eight's Brothers of Tangra
107
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 12:51:00 -
[137] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: ... Learn to get your pod out, it is a key skill if you expect PvP and will cut drastically the number of times you will lose implants. If a pilot is serious about PvP combat over anything else then they will be risking far more expensive implants on a daily basis so you could see the risk of losing attribute implants as 'training wheels' towards the risks you'll be taking in future.
Err, uhm, ok, nvm.
I'm trying to point exactly same thing as Torsnk was telling about. You'll most likely to undock to loose your head. This will reverse risk-reward system for skill implants, where null-sec player has the most risk but has the least SP training speed, whereas a high-sec player with no wars involved, docked or even logged-off has the least risk but most SP training speed. Half the lies they tell about me aren't true. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 13:44:00 -
[138] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: Also I come back to the usual thing with implants. Learn to get your pod out, it is a key skill if you expect PvP and will cut drastically the number of times you will lose implants.
You are not doing PvP in Nullsec, right? Neither are you, NPC alt. But as far as "bubbles!", if you're going to take a fight in null, then nothing stops you from jumping into a clean clone. It's routine to do so, in fact. Unfortunately as I'm my own "alt" (aka SOLO, single account player *sigh*!) I lost my pod iirc 3 times to bubbles in NullSec and in WHs. Actually I was able to escape luckily in the gap between two bubbles once. But the required clone jumps are exactly the point, if I would like to do NullSec stuff every day I'm penalized with much slower skill progression. I'm my own NPC alt. |
Bohneik Itohn
Amarrian Salvage Gnomes and Associates
271
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 14:31:00 -
[139] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote: Unfortunately as I'm my own "alt" (aka SOLO, single account player *sigh*!) I lost my pod iirc 3 times to bubbles in NullSec and in WHs. Actually I was able to escape luckily in the gap between two bubbles once. But the required clone jumps are exactly the point, if I would like to do NullSec stuff every day I'm penalized with much slower skill progression.
Or just don't get caught in bubbles.
Spoken by the guy who just lost a set of +4's to a bubble in a WH last week. Because I got greedy. Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!-á - Freyya
Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
7186
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 14:35:00 -
[140] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote: Unfortunately as I'm my own "alt" (aka SOLO, single account player *sigh*!) I lost my pod iirc 3 times to bubbles in NullSec and in WHs. Actually I was able to escape luckily in the gap between two bubbles once. But the required clone jumps are exactly the point, if I would like to do NullSec stuff every day I'm penalized with much slower skill progression.
Stop exaggerating.
The difference between +4s and +5s, or even +3s and +5s, is miniscule unless you have a year long or more training plan. And even then the difference is pretty well laughable. So it's not "much slower" anything.
And Genolutions cost pocket change, by the way. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Psychotic Monk for CSM9. |
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 15:00:00 -
[141] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: And Genolutions cost pocket change, by the way.
I don't want to get caught in a T1 frig/cruiser plus 100mil clone. Maybe this is fun for everyone else, but I don't think I like that idea. I'm my own NPC alt. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
570
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 15:25:00 -
[142] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: Also I come back to the usual thing with implants. Learn to get your pod out, it is a key skill if you expect PvP and will cut drastically the number of times you will lose implants.
You are not doing PvP in Nullsec, right?
And you aren't using a jump clone whilst PvPing in Null? Who's fault is losing implants then? There are mechanisms available to avoid losing expensive implant sets and they should be used as such. New pilots need to be taught about these mechanisms so they can make *informed* decisions. If you are out in null I'd be surprised if you weren't earning enough to easily afford to lose even +4's on a fairly regular basis. If you can't afford them you should consider whether null is the right place for you to be flying until you can afford them.
And no I don't PvP in null. When I did go to null previously guess what? I used a cheap jump clone and expected to die. I wasn't disappointed in any sense. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 16:10:00 -
[143] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: And you aren't using a jump clone whilst PvPing in Null? Who's fault is losing implants then?
Please read my and others' comments above. I'm my own NPC alt. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
570
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 16:44:00 -
[144] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: And you aren't using a jump clone whilst PvPing in Null? Who's fault is losing implants then?
Please read my and others' comments above.
I did read your posts and you are not penalized on training rate compared to others even if you choose to PvP every day. You have a choice as to what level of risk and cost of any implant (training or otherwise) that you are willing to fly with. You train at the exact same rate as anyone else before implants and can choose which if any implants you want to fly with. There is a choice to be made and a risk/reward balance to make in your own mind.
I stand by the point that the l;earning implants really don't speed up training by such a degree that they need to be removed.
Reading between the lines the OP is suggesting that because he doesn't want to risk a more expensive item then it should be removed and the maximum benefit given to everyone. He would like all the rewards of +5's but without the risk as this will speed up training. Increased straining speed has been discussed many times and is generally unwanted in all cases so far. I am also dead against removing a risk choice and applying the reqard even if it is to everyone. |
Shivanthar
Ace's and Eight's Brothers of Tangra
107
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 16:48:00 -
[145] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Tipa Riot wrote: Unfortunately as I'm my own "alt" (aka SOLO, single account player *sigh*!) I lost my pod iirc 3 times to bubbles in NullSec and in WHs. Actually I was able to escape luckily in the gap between two bubbles once. But the required clone jumps are exactly the point, if I would like to do NullSec stuff every day I'm penalized with much slower skill progression.
Stop exaggerating. The difference between +4s and +5s, or even +3s and +5s, is miniscule unless you have a year long or more training plan. And even then the difference is pretty well laughable. So it's not "much slower" anything. And Genolutions cost pocket change, by the way.
That guy said he is 9 months old. If you read my post and considering he should be less than 16-18 mil SP (considering he is on +3s), he can complete at least 360 skills by switching to +5s and with a well designed plan, bringing more than 96 unique skills to level 4 in time you said "laughable".
Two cases here, either you don't have math, or you do have it, but you just have shitload of skills trained already and 96 unique to lvl4 means nothing to you...
On the other hand, the argument of jumping to a clean clone doesn't change anything here. It doesn't invalidate the fact that fighting in null increases risk of being podded, whether you are using jump clone or not, you expose yourself to very same reversed risk/reward situation with a logged-off guy in the high-sec training with +5. You're on the risky side, yet you've to loose training time because of risk? Not very good eh? Half the lies they tell about me aren't true. |
Bohneik Itohn
Amarrian Salvage Gnomes and Associates
273
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 16:54:00 -
[146] - Quote
Shivanthar wrote: That guy said he is 9 months old. If you read my post and considering he should be less than 16-18 mil SP (considering he is on +3s), he can complete at least 180 skills with a well designed plan, bringing more than 48 unique skills to level 4 in time you said "laughable".
Two cases here, either you don't have math, or you do have it, but you just have shitload of skills trained already and 40 unique to lvl4 means nothing to you...
On the other hand, the argument of jumping to a clean clone doesn't change anything here. It doesn't invalidate the fact that fighting in null increases risk of being podded, whether you are using jump clone or not, you expose yourself to very same reversed risk/reward situation with a logged-off guy in the high-sec training with +5. You're on the risky side, yet you've to loose training time because of risk? Not very good eh?
Yeah, and the guy sitting in high sec with +5's is just having LOADS of fun isn't he?
I wonder if he'll be the first one to roll the ship spin counter back over to 0....
Isk, SP, time, plex, we all invest something into the game to get what we want out of it. Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!-á - Freyya
Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help. |
Shivanthar
Ace's and Eight's Brothers of Tangra
107
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 16:59:00 -
[147] - Quote
Bohneik Itohn wrote:Shivanthar wrote: That guy said he is 9 months old. If you read my post and considering he should be less than 16-18 mil SP (considering he is on +3s), he can complete at least 180 skills with a well designed plan, bringing more than 48 unique skills to level 4 in time you said "laughable".
Two cases here, either you don't have math, or you do have it, but you just have shitload of skills trained already and 40 unique to lvl4 means nothing to you...
On the other hand, the argument of jumping to a clean clone doesn't change anything here. It doesn't invalidate the fact that fighting in null increases risk of being podded, whether you are using jump clone or not, you expose yourself to very same reversed risk/reward situation with a logged-off guy in the high-sec training with +5. You're on the risky side, yet you've to loose training time because of risk? Not very good eh?
Yeah, and the guy sitting in high sec with +5's is just having LOADS of fun isn't he? I wonder if he'll be the first one to roll the ship spin counter back over to 0.... Isk, SP, time, plex, we all invest something into the game to get what we want out of it.
Please update your quote, as I've miscalculated some numbers and corrected them. Don't be too emotional, I'm not discussing fun factor. That guy having less fun still doesn't change the fact that he has more reward sitting in high-sec than fighting in null.
Why people suddenly change to fun/reward factor when a broken formula of risk/reward is put on the table? What hurts you if everyone train +5 injected and implants are removed? Half the lies they tell about me aren't true. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
664
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 17:15:00 -
[148] - Quote
Shivanthar wrote:That guy having less fun still doesn't change the fact that he has more reward sitting in high-sec than fighting in null. How is SP a reward if you hardly ever use it? Please explain.
|
Bohneik Itohn
Amarrian Salvage Gnomes and Associates
274
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 17:18:00 -
[149] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Shivanthar wrote:That guy having less fun still doesn't change the fact that he has more reward sitting in high-sec than fighting in null. How is SP a reward if you hardly ever use it? Please explain.
Because numbers.
I haz bigger numbers, thus I haz bigger E-peen. Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!-á - Freyya
Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
664
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 17:20:00 -
[150] - Quote
Bohneik Itohn wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Shivanthar wrote:That guy having less fun still doesn't change the fact that he has more reward sitting in high-sec than fighting in null. How is SP a reward if you hardly ever use it? Please explain. Because numbers. I haz bigger numbers, thus I haz bigger E-peen. :)
Ah, then it's all about a little cosmetic mod? Like your character sheet showing Gallente Battleship V even if you don't actually have it?
Same as having it and never undocking a Domi... |
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