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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 18 post(s) |
Arronicus
X-Prot Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
1050
|
Posted - 2014.06.10 22:28:00 -
[31] - Quote
Darkblad wrote:Arronicus wrote:Darkblad wrote:
Also: If I remember correctly, a block of compressed ore is made of a batch of the raw ore (100 units).
While correct for Arkonor and a couple others, this is incorrect for most other ores. Compression values chartOre refine valuesYou'll notice in most cases the volume of minerals in 1 compressed ore block is not 100 units of the raw ore, so it's not safe to maintain this assumption, while it does work for your arkonor example. It changed to "100 units buld a block" after release of the blog. CCP Ytterbium announced that change on March 31.
No clue how I missed that one; thanks |
Tash'k Omar
0ne Percent. Odin's Call
26
|
Posted - 2014.06.10 22:47:00 -
[32] - Quote
Cristl wrote:I've asked this before, but I'd love an official response (and if there's a time to ask, it's now).
Almost all industrial processes in Eve require time: whether it be researching, copying, mining or building, your character has to wait it out. However, you can smelt millions of tons of ore instantly.
Isn't that both counter-intuitive and somewhat counter to general Eve principles? Most stuff is designed to take time and be faster with more corpmates involved. But the refining requirements of an entire alliance can be done by a single character.
It's weird. Let me just say that I don't want to arbitrarily increase anyone's grind, but assigning skills to tasks with instant duration is bad game design. It allows single alts to do the work of nations, and means that newbies with mediocre refining skills cannot market those skills.
Obviously refining could be set up and left while you did other things or logged off. Also, aspects such as mining, manufacturing or copying could be sped up to compensate GÇô there's no need for the overall time to market for goods to increase.
If refining took time, there would be a refining mini-profession: more people would need to chip-in in larger corporations, and newbies with fair-to-middling refining skills could still be of use. Imagine if they could accept refining contracts from industrial big-shots and make a little extra cash while they run their level two missions. It's an MMO remember: the more interaction the better.
And if POSes then needed an extra buff to refining (over the proposed buff in Crius), who would object?
ps. If they want to combine refining and reprocessing into one word, then smelting would make more sense than reprocessing.
As much as I would hate having to wait for reprocessing, I think this is a very interesting idea, and overall would be happy if it were implemented.
It would also allow you to tweak the Rorqual to make it a viable ship again (Add the ability to reprocess with bonus to speed/yield). |
Circumstantial Evidence
128
|
Posted - 2014.06.10 23:24:00 -
[33] - Quote
CCP Punkturis wrote:worst case scenario you just close the window and open it again and don't add ALL THE ITEMS, but just the ones you're going to reprocess Please bring back my spreadsheets-in-space, so I can have friendly, visually oriented checkboxes to un-check The "input materials" pane looks like an inventory window that is set to view contents as icons. OK... I just found "remove item" on the context menu per item, so base functionality is somewhat preserved. But... a "spreadsheet" - um, bad word - a "list" view (optional) with checkboxes to un-check, should also be possible, and would preserve expectations. Please consider adding the familiar icon/list/details buttons that are present in the upper right of inventory windows, to this UI. |
Circumstantial Evidence
128
|
Posted - 2014.06.11 00:39:00 -
[34] - Quote
- Tooltip text: "Warning: non-repackaged and valuable item"
I think this should be: "...OR valuable item" (Because the warning is shown for "valuable" items that are packaged, with the quantity text box visible.)
- Assembled (non-repackaged) items with low value may not always show the Warning icon.
Example: Tech 1 100mm armor plates (all meta levels) - just stripped from a ship... no warning icon.
- "-1" quantity shown for assembled (non-repackaged) item looks odd.
I don't think it should be necessary to display a quantity text box, assembled items can't be stacked.
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Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
66
|
Posted - 2014.06.11 00:45:00 -
[35] - Quote
Reprocessed roughly 4 billion minerals in various amounts
No matter what, volume was ALWAYS 0.07m3
It basically only counts one of each mineral in the output screen it seems, it forgets to multiply by the number of each of the reprocessed minerals. |
Xercodo
Xovoni Astronautical Manufacturing and Engineering
3567
|
Posted - 2014.06.11 04:45:00 -
[36] - Quote
We need a list view so we can copy pasta things into our spreadsheets :3 The Drake is a Lie |
Velicitia
Arma Artificer
2360
|
Posted - 2014.06.11 11:20:00 -
[37] - Quote
Tash'k Omar wrote:Cristl wrote:I've asked this before, but I'd love an official response (and if there's a time to ask, it's now).
Almost all industrial processes in Eve require time: whether it be researching, copying, mining or building, your character has to wait it out. However, you can smelt millions of tons of ore instantly.
Isn't that both counter-intuitive and somewhat counter to general Eve principles? Most stuff is designed to take time and be faster with more corpmates involved. But the refining requirements of an entire alliance can be done by a single character.
It's weird. Let me just say that I don't want to arbitrarily increase anyone's grind, but assigning skills to tasks with instant duration is bad game design. It allows single alts to do the work of nations, and means that newbies with mediocre refining skills cannot market those skills.
Obviously refining could be set up and left while you did other things or logged off. Also, aspects such as mining, manufacturing or copying could be sped up to compensate GÇô there's no need for the overall time to market for goods to increase.
If refining took time, there would be a refining mini-profession: more people would need to chip-in in larger corporations, and newbies with fair-to-middling refining skills could still be of use. Imagine if they could accept refining contracts from industrial big-shots and make a little extra cash while they run their level two missions. It's an MMO remember: the more interaction the better.
And if POSes then needed an extra buff to refining (over the proposed buff in Crius), who would object?
ps. If they want to combine refining and reprocessing into one word, then smelting would make more sense than reprocessing. As much as I would hate having to wait for reprocessing, I think this is a very interesting idea, and overall would be happy if it were implemented. It would also allow you to tweak the Rorqual to make it a viable ship again (Add the ability to reprocess with bonus to speed/yield).
TBH, it's because repro is "backwards" from everything else.
Mining is the time-sink ... and repro is the "instant" (well except in POS, which takes 10 sec).
Manufacturing, Research, etc have the "instant" at the beginning (BP -> Install -> Mats + Cost Confirmation -> Accept) and then the time-sink is afterwards. One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
Darkblad
Hilfe is like free Entertainment
268
|
Posted - 2014.06.11 11:39:00 -
[38] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Mining is the time-sink ... and repro is the "instant" (well except in POS, which takes 10 sec). POS Reprocessing currently happens instantly as well - at least the highsec usable "Reprocessing Array". The attribute isn't active (neither is the yield multiplier). EVE Infolinks -+-áOld and new-áPortraits |
AZON21AUG
Super Luminous Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.06.11 11:44:00 -
[39] - Quote
Built a new amarr factory outpost, unable to reprocess in it. Did this change from the original plan of having all outposts able to reprocess? |
AZON21AUG
Super Luminous Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.06.11 11:49:00 -
[40] - Quote
Also, I would like to suggest that Minmatar Refining Outposts get the same base rate as the intensive refining array of 54%, then give a straight 2%/upgrade for 56/58/60. Still gives the same max. |
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RainReaper
RRN Enterprise
1
|
Posted - 2014.06.11 12:46:00 -
[41] - Quote
hey uh on the test server i tried to reprocess a civilian miner. it worked and well it gave me 7 mechanical parts, 2 laser focusing crystals, 4 photon microprocessors and 7 electronic parts. as well as some mexalon nocxium pyerite and tritanium. i belive this is a bug? |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
706
|
Posted - 2014.06.11 15:34:00 -
[42] - Quote
RainReaper wrote:hey uh on the test server i tried to reprocess a civilian miner. it worked and well it gave me 7 mechanical parts, 2 laser focusing crystals, 4 photon microprocessors and 7 electronic parts. as well as some mexalon nocxium pyerite and tritanium. i belive this is a bug?
Now that would be hilarious if it made it to TQ. GÇ£I personally refuse to help AAA take space from itself so it can become an even shittier version of itselfGÇ¥
-Grath Telkin, 2014. |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
706
|
Posted - 2014.06.11 15:40:00 -
[43] - Quote
RainReaper wrote:hey uh on the test server i tried to reprocess a civilian miner. it worked and well it gave me 7 mechanical parts, 2 laser focusing crystals, 4 photon microprocessors and 7 electronic parts. as well as some mexalon nocxium pyerite and tritanium. i belive this is a bug?
Now that would be funny if it made it to TQ. Who needs silly things like Neodymium, Dysprosium, or Technetium when one has an infinite free source of Civilian Miner Is at every station in the game? Capital-G. Capital-G. GÇ£I personally refuse to help AAA take space from itself so it can become an even shittier version of itselfGÇ¥
-Grath Telkin, 2014. |
RainReaper
RRN Enterprise
1
|
Posted - 2014.06.11 15:46:00 -
[44] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:RainReaper wrote:hey uh on the test server i tried to reprocess a civilian miner. it worked and well it gave me 7 mechanical parts, 2 laser focusing crystals, 4 photon microprocessors and 7 electronic parts. as well as some mexalon nocxium pyerite and tritanium. i belive this is a bug? Now that would be funny if it made it to TQ. Who needs silly things like Neodymium, Dysprosium, or Technetium when one has an infinite free source of Civilian Miner Is at every station in the game? Capital-G. Capital-G.
my toughts exactly lol who needs an unbroken game anyways right? lol |
Jinn Aideron
38
|
Posted - 2014.06.11 16:04:00 -
[45] - Quote
CCP Punkturis wrote:Jinn Aideron wrote:- There is no multi-selection in reprocessing window. -- You are presented with very nice visual clues, warning signs, etc. When you then want to ACT on these, you have so select,right-click,remove every single element on its own!
- Allow us to DRAG things out of the window for 'remove', just as we now drag them in to 'add'.
When I picture this window in its finished state: awesome! Can't wait. unfortunately dragging items out of the window and dropping them somewhere in the void doesn't work very well in EVE so we couldn't make that happen this time multiselect is something we might look into Hello, CCP Punkturis, o/ thanks for your time!
If you need an explicit, in-window drop target for this to work, why not have one? Mockup
Cheers!
Stealth deletes are bad. |
Jinn Aideron
38
|
Posted - 2014.06.11 16:11:00 -
[46] - Quote
CCP Punkturis wrote:worst case scenario you just close the window and open it again and don't add ALL THE ITEMS, but just the ones you're going to reprocess Solid fallback position indeed.
But in general I believe we can all agree that destroying one's reference, by closing the window with all the 'hint' icons, in order to create a sub-selection thereof, for another try, kind of goes in the face of batch processing, and brings us back to doing it little by little.
Stealth deletes are bad. |
Lord Alex2
Packet Loss Ltd.
0
|
Posted - 2014.06.11 16:55:00 -
[47] - Quote
I get "You are not within maximum transfer distance" for Intensive Processing Arrays even though I am ~900m from it.
http://i.imgur.com/Zb1fvK1.jpg
Also I noticed that you have to be 3km from arrays in general - compare to the old way when you could access |
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P C C P Alliance
3558
|
Posted - 2014.06.11 17:03:00 -
[48] - Quote
Cristl wrote:I've asked this before, but I'd love an official response (and if there's a time to ask, it's now).
Almost all industrial processes in Eve require time: whether it be researching, copying, mining or building, your character has to wait it out. However, you can smelt millions of tons of ore instantly.
Isn't that both counter-intuitive and somewhat counter to general Eve principles? Most stuff is designed to take time and be faster with more corpmates involved. But the refining requirements of an entire alliance can be done by a single character.
It's weird. Let me just say that I don't want to arbitrarily increase anyone's grind, but assigning skills to tasks with instant duration is bad game design. It allows single alts to do the work of nations, and means that newbies with mediocre refining skills cannot market those skills.
Obviously refining could be set up and left while you did other things or logged off. Also, aspects such as mining, manufacturing or copying could be sped up to compensate GÇô there's no need for the overall time to market for goods to increase.
If refining took time, there would be a refining mini-profession: more people would need to chip-in in larger corporations, and newbies with fair-to-middling refining skills could still be of use. Imagine if they could accept refining contracts from industrial big-shots and make a little extra cash while they run their level two missions. It's an MMO remember: the more interaction the better.
And if POSes then needed an extra buff to refining (over the proposed buff in Crius), who would object?
ps. If they want to combine refining and reprocessing into one word, then smelting would make more sense than reprocessing.
We have seen your post on the General Discussion forums before.
We considered having Reprocessing take time early on the Industry overhaul process, but we quickly dropped that idea. Mainly because this activity isn't just something that only is used by Industrialist people. It's also used by players that want to quickly reprocess loot, or quickly get rid of hangar items. |
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P C C P Alliance
3558
|
Posted - 2014.06.11 17:06:00 -
[49] - Quote
Rowells wrote:were all stations supposed to recieve reproccessing arrays or was I mistaken?
No, we're not changing the availability of the different Industry service - we are just removing manufacturing / science slots. |
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P C C P Alliance
3558
|
Posted - 2014.06.11 17:06:00 -
[50] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Just tried reprocessing a couple of things in station.
I'm seeing a consistant set of multipliers, but an inconsistant percentage return.
Equipment array is showing 56% Fuel blocks are showing 49%
(scrap metal reprocessing 2 1.1 multiplier shown., no standings in station 0.95 multiplier)
(just an edit to be clear: I've stuck in a bug report)
Thanks, will have a look. |
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P C C P Alliance
3558
|
Posted - 2014.06.11 17:08:00 -
[51] - Quote
RainReaper wrote:hey uh on the test server i tried to reprocess a civilian miner. it worked and well it gave me 7 mechanical parts, 2 laser focusing crystals, 4 photon microprocessors and 7 electronic parts. as well as some mexalon nocxium pyerite and tritanium. i belive this is a bug?
Oh yes it is. |
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Callic Veratar
603
|
Posted - 2014.06.11 18:10:00 -
[52] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Cristl wrote:I've asked this before, but I'd love an official response (and if there's a time to ask, it's now).
Almost all industrial processes in Eve require time: whether it be researching, copying, mining or building, your character has to wait it out. However, you can smelt millions of tons of ore instantly.
Isn't that both counter-intuitive and somewhat counter to general Eve principles? Most stuff is designed to take time and be faster with more corpmates involved. But the refining requirements of an entire alliance can be done by a single character.
It's weird. Let me just say that I don't want to arbitrarily increase anyone's grind, but assigning skills to tasks with instant duration is bad game design. It allows single alts to do the work of nations, and means that newbies with mediocre refining skills cannot market those skills.
Obviously refining could be set up and left while you did other things or logged off. Also, aspects such as mining, manufacturing or copying could be sped up to compensate GÇô there's no need for the overall time to market for goods to increase.
If refining took time, there would be a refining mini-profession: more people would need to chip-in in larger corporations, and newbies with fair-to-middling refining skills could still be of use. Imagine if they could accept refining contracts from industrial big-shots and make a little extra cash while they run their level two missions. It's an MMO remember: the more interaction the better.
And if POSes then needed an extra buff to refining (over the proposed buff in Crius), who would object?
ps. If they want to combine refining and reprocessing into one word, then smelting would make more sense than reprocessing. We have seen your post on the General Discussion forums before. We considered having Reprocessing take time early on the Industry overhaul process, but we quickly dropped that idea. Mainly because this activity isn't just something that only is used by Industrialist people. It's also used by players that want to quickly reprocess loot, or quickly get rid of hangar items.
That feels like a pretty weak argument to not have it take time. It sounds to me like it's the precise reason why it should take time. Someone who's not into industry can reprocess but it'll be slow and inefficient much in the same way that if they want to build something or transport large quantities of goods the same thing will happen.
There's already refining arrays in stations, refining could be added to the science window as a new job. Select everything you want to refine, install refining job. The stuff disappears from your inventory and (volume / speed)s later, it's done and ready to dump back out.
Everyone can have one reprocess job at a time that runs somewhere around 1000m3/s. Add in a couple skills that let you parallelize 6 reprocessing jobs at 1500m3/s. Anyone can still refine, but you need to train to do it efficiently.
This will put an even harder cap on gun-mining (which is mostly dead now) and hopefully the personal desire to remove all modules from NPC wrecks, including faction and officer stuff. |
Bridgette d'Iberville
Better Killing Through Chemistry
255
|
Posted - 2014.06.11 18:21:00 -
[53] - Quote
Callic Veratar wrote:Reprocessing Taking Time Argument.
I'm actually a fan of reprocessing taking time, but I tend to prefer the facilitation of specialized professions over every capsuleer being able to do just about anything. With that said, I think you need to jettison the realism argument. You can dock a battleship in a station and undock in a matter of seconds. Additionally, in a matter of a few seconds you can strip it of massive armor plates and replace the internal structure with lightweight materials. Surely that process should take more time than a few seconds, right? "I considered a career in griefing, but then realized that I would never achieve the level of tear generation that CCP manages to do each and every expansion." |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3595
|
Posted - 2014.06.11 18:54:00 -
[54] - Quote
Callic Veratar wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:Cristl wrote:I've asked this before, but I'd love an official response (and if there's a time to ask, it's now).
Almost all industrial processes in Eve require time: whether it be researching, copying, mining or building, your character has to wait it out. However, you can smelt millions of tons of ore instantly.
Isn't that both counter-intuitive and somewhat counter to general Eve principles? Most stuff is designed to take time and be faster with more corpmates involved. But the refining requirements of an entire alliance can be done by a single character.
It's weird. Let me just say that I don't want to arbitrarily increase anyone's grind, but assigning skills to tasks with instant duration is bad game design. It allows single alts to do the work of nations, and means that newbies with mediocre refining skills cannot market those skills.
Obviously refining could be set up and left while you did other things or logged off. Also, aspects such as mining, manufacturing or copying could be sped up to compensate GÇô there's no need for the overall time to market for goods to increase.
If refining took time, there would be a refining mini-profession: more people would need to chip-in in larger corporations, and newbies with fair-to-middling refining skills could still be of use. Imagine if they could accept refining contracts from industrial big-shots and make a little extra cash while they run their level two missions. It's an MMO remember: the more interaction the better.
And if POSes then needed an extra buff to refining (over the proposed buff in Crius), who would object?
ps. If they want to combine refining and reprocessing into one word, then smelting would make more sense than reprocessing. We have seen your post on the General Discussion forums before. We considered having Reprocessing take time early on the Industry overhaul process, but we quickly dropped that idea. Mainly because this activity isn't just something that only is used by Industrialist people. It's also used by players that want to quickly reprocess loot, or quickly get rid of hangar items. That feels like a pretty weak argument to not have it take time. It sounds to me like it's the precise reason why it should take time. Someone who's not into industry can reprocess but it'll be slow and inefficient much in the same way that if they want to build something or transport large quantities of goods the same thing will happen. There's already refining arrays in stations, refining could be added to the science window as a new job. Select everything you want to refine, install refining job. The stuff disappears from your inventory and (volume / speed)s later, it's done and ready to dump back out. Everyone can have one reprocess job at a time that runs somewhere around 1000m3/s. Add in a couple skills that let you parallelize 6 reprocessing jobs at 1500m3/s. Anyone can still refine, but you need to train to do it efficiently. This will put an even harder cap on gun-mining (which is mostly dead now) and hopefully the personal desire to remove all modules from NPC wrecks, including faction and officer stuff.
I see a LOT of words here, and none of them are doing anything to explain how this would produce interesting gameplay. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Destitute Tehol Beddict
ROC Incorporated The ROC
27
|
Posted - 2014.06.11 19:07:00 -
[55] - Quote
I tried the new interface out and right now my biggest complaint is that the reprocessing window takes a long time to pop after selecting my inventory and pressing reprocess.
Have about 324 items and it takes roughly 30-40 seconds for the reprocessing window to load... dragging and dropping produces similar results |
Xercodo
Xovoni Astronautical Manufacturing and Engineering
3568
|
Posted - 2014.06.11 19:16:00 -
[56] - Quote
I might be mistaken, but the 10 second working time of the arrays isn't being used at all and is running instant as far as I can tell The Drake is a Lie |
Callic Veratar
603
|
Posted - 2014.06.11 19:30:00 -
[57] - Quote
mynnna wrote:I see a LOT of words here, and none of them are doing anything to explain how this would produce interesting gameplay.
Interesting gameplay is highly subjective. If the mechanics are changed from something simple like press button get minerals to an involved process (at least slightly involved as too much gets bad fast). It changes the mining from mine ore-refine-sell minerals to mine ore-sell ore/buy ore-refine-sell minerals.
It's the same reason to get rid of OGB, it's a thing that's there that nobody needs to really thing about beyond having a single alt around to take care of it. My off the cuff solution might not be interesting or compelling, but it's not meant to be the end of the discussion, only a beginning (though it seems like it's already closed from the dev's view).
Further on my suggestion, if volume is used as the factor for reprocessing, it increases the value of compression and creates diversity in what, now, is a very flat market. |
The Ironfist
Nordgoetter Northern Associates.
22
|
Posted - 2014.06.11 21:08:00 -
[58] - Quote
Callic Veratar wrote:mynnna wrote:I see a LOT of words here, and none of them are doing anything to explain how this would produce interesting gameplay. Interesting gameplay is highly subjective. If the mechanics are changed from something simple like press button get minerals to an involved process (at least slightly involved as too much gets bad fast). It changes the mining from mine ore-refine-sell minerals to mine ore-sell ore/buy ore-refine-sell minerals. It's the same reason to get rid of OGB, it's a thing that's there that nobody needs to really thing about beyond having a single alt around to take care of it. My off the cuff solution might not be interesting or compelling, but it's not meant to be the end of the discussion, only a beginning (though it seems like it's already closed from the dev's view). Further on my suggestion, if volume is used as the factor for reprocessing, it increases the value of compression and creates diversity in what, now, is a very flat market.
I don't think your idea for new game-play has value. Why? Because right now everyone big into industry whatever its in highsec building battleship hulls or in lowsec building caps or nullsec building titans already has a reprocessing / refining alt. Given that especially capital and supercapital building requires you to have a least 10 capital building alts there is no way people will enlist others to refine their stuff for them. Because its simply an unnecessary risk. Instead we will all simply apply plex for extra training slots to our accounts and train our production/capital production alts for perfect refining as well.
You suggestion raises the already pretty high bar for high profit industry activities such as capital building.
Also for your comments on compression after the industry changes go live compression WILL have value there is no need to try and add more to it. Because for capital building in low and supercapital building in null you will NEED compression and one hell of a lot of ORE will go there..
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CCP Punkturis
C C P C C P Alliance
5324
|
Posted - 2014.06.11 21:46:00 -
[59] - Quote
Jinn Aideron wrote:CCP Punkturis wrote:Jinn Aideron wrote:- There is no multi-selection in reprocessing window. -- You are presented with very nice visual clues, warning signs, etc. When you then want to ACT on these, you have so select,right-click,remove every single element on its own!
- Allow us to DRAG things out of the window for 'remove', just as we now drag them in to 'add'.
When I picture this window in its finished state: awesome! Can't wait. unfortunately dragging items out of the window and dropping them somewhere in the void doesn't work very well in EVE so we couldn't make that happen this time multiselect is something we might look into Hello, CCP Punkturis, o/ thanks for your time! If you need an explicit, in-window drop target for this to work, why not have one? MockupCheers!
why had implemented something similar to this (except cooler, sorry!) but then figured out it wasn't consistent with anything else in EVE so right click (yay) has to do for now Gÿà EVE User Interface Programmer Gÿà GÖÑ Team Super Friends GÖÑ @CCP_Punkturis |
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Jinn Aideron
38
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Posted - 2014.06.11 23:24:00 -
[60] - Quote
CCP Punkturis wrote:Quote: ,,, If you need an explicit, in-window drop target for this to work, why not have one? Mockup ... why had implemented something similar to this (except cooler, sorry!) but then figured out it wasn't consistent with anything else in EVE so right click (yay) has to do for now Lol, it had better been cooler because this one took a handful of minutes in PS, and I wasn't paid.
We'll make do with processing either way. But everyone loves functional.
Stealth deletes are bad. |
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