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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
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CCP Falcon
9295
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Posted - 2014.11.10 15:25:29 -
[31] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:If Gallente-Caldari relations are improving there's absolutely no reason why FW shouldn't be shut down.
They aren't.
Just because Ishukone is playing nice with the Federation, it doesn't mean that the State is. Ishukone =/= the Caldari State
CCP Falcon || Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
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Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
6435
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Posted - 2014.11.10 16:23:05 -
[32] - Quote
"L'+ėtat, c'est moi!" Ishukone CEO Otro Gariushi, YC110
Priano Trans-Stellar: elegant solutions for the State's needs.
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Andreus Ixiris
Duty. Circle-Of-Two
4905
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Posted - 2014.11.10 18:07:48 -
[33] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Andreus Ixiris wrote:If Gallente-Caldari relations are improving there's absolutely no reason why FW shouldn't be shut down. They aren't. Just because Ishukone is playing nice with the Federation, it doesn't mean that the State is. Ishukone =/= the Caldari State There's no reason for the State and the Federation to be fighting a war at this point. There's nothing left to fight over. It's literally become a joke at this point. Everyone knows it's a waste of time, money and manpower and that neither side can win it.
The only reason FW still exists is because the mechanic still exists.
Mane 614
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David Laurentson
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
100
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Posted - 2014.11.10 21:49:40 -
[34] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Andreus Ixiris wrote:If Gallente-Caldari relations are improving there's absolutely no reason why FW shouldn't be shut down. They aren't. Just because Ishukone is playing nice with the Federation, it doesn't mean that the State is. Ishukone =/= the Caldari State There's no reason for the State and the Federation to be fighting a war at this point. There's nothing left to fight over. It's literally become a joke at this point. Everyone knows it's a waste of time, money and manpower and that neither side can win it. The only reason FW still exists is because the mechanic still exists.
Nah. They'll fight so long as people up top in the two empires see advantage in either being at war, or by winning it.
I mean, leaving aside pride and history between the the two empires, think about how much money capsuleer industrialists make when nullsec empires fight. Based on the average L4 mission, NPC navies are much bigger, and someone's building them, and getting paid to make them. Think about the mineral rights for an entire solar system, and if that's worth fighting over. Think which NPC corps would happily use the war to weaken their rivals in the next state over. Think which corps would use the war to weaken their 'allied' corporates who live closer to the borders. Think which big R&D corps rely on State or Federal funding to post their massive profits. If there's no war, who's gonna fund the development costs for T3 dessies? Sure, the Capsuleers might, but that's probably the last thing anyone running a megacorp wants to see.
War is business, and so long as business is doing well, the war has reason to exist. |
Andreus Ixiris
Duty. Circle-Of-Two
4939
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Posted - 2014.11.11 09:29:57 -
[35] - Quote
David Laurentson wrote: or by winning it. But there is no way to win it.
There's no-one who would intentionally engage and continue engaging in a war that was impossible to win.
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
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CCP Falcon
9317
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Posted - 2014.11.13 04:23:43 -
[36] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:David Laurentson wrote: or by winning it. But there is no way to win it. There's no-one who would intentionally engage and continue engaging in a war that was impossible to win.
War is bolstering both the State and Federal economies with very little actual investment from them, since they're fighing it via proxy.
There are a hell of a lot of conflicts in the real world, some extremely recent, that have less miltary and security related justification and far more heavily linked ecomomic and political reasons for sustainment.
It's true that real world examples of war before the advent of most new battlefield technology, (i.e. World War II) have shown that prosperity is restored by the sharp drop in spending, taxes and regulation at the end if a conflict, along with a huge proportion of the regular workforce "coming home" from deployment.
However this isn't the case in modern society, as people who're actively serving in the military tend not to be displaced by war in such huge numbers any more. While there are boots on the ground, a much larger proportion of war is now fought by proxy, using drone technology and long range weaponry, which doesn't put huge strain on the blue collar workforce to anywar near the extent that mass deployment of troops used to before the advent of modern warfare.
For the Empyrean War, capsuleers are the proxy.
Regardless of what happens, even if a conflict is impossible to win, if both sides persist in fighting without entering negotiation for a ceasefire, then neither side will back down. As soon as one side does, the other steamrolls through.
Effectively, the two are playing military chicken with eachother for political and economic gain, and are pretty much in a state of cold war with capsuleers fighting for them by proxy.
This is creating sustainable economic demand for goods and services that's keeping both economies from seeing a post conflict slump and recovery, and keeping trillions of people in the blue collar workforce employed and out of military service.
With the Federal elections coming up, the last thing Roden wants is to be questioned on an economic downturn when he can take the hawk's position of continuing to defend the Federation's borders against the Caldari thread, and keep his re-election campaign clean cut.
Similarly, the State is in a process of recovery from the administration of Tibus Heth. The last thing the Chief Executive Panel is looking for is an economic downturn when most of the megacorporations - Kaalakiota (who, despite being the largest megacorporation the State, almost went bankrupt under Heth's control) and Ishukone included, are still recovering from massive misappropriation of their funds and asset seizures by the CPD.
CCP Falcon || Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
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Arline Kley
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
422
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Posted - 2014.11.13 08:18:03 -
[37] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:the last thing Roden wants is to be questioned on an economic downturn when he can take the hawk's position of continuing to defend the Federation's borders against the Caldari thread
Caldari State! Tear up your threads!
I knew Gallente politics was weird, but damn!
Blessed are those that carry the Empress' Light; with it they destroy the shadows
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Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
837
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Posted - 2014.11.13 08:35:57 -
[38] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Effectively, the two are playing military chicken with eachother for political and economic gain, and are pretty much in a state of cold war with capsuleers fighting for them by proxy.
This is actually a really nice description of it. Shines a new light on it for me. |
Andreus Ixiris
Duty. Circle-Of-Two
4969
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Posted - 2014.11.13 10:19:44 -
[39] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:War is bolstering both the State and Federal economies with very little actual investment from them, since they're fighing it via proxy.
There are a hell of a lot of conflicts in the real world, some extremely recent, that have less miltary and security related justification and far more heavily linked ecomomic and political reasons for sustainment.
It's true that real world examples of war before the advent of most new battlefield technology, (i.e. World War II) have shown that prosperity is restored by the sharp drop in spending, taxes and regulation at the end if a conflict, along with a huge proportion of the regular workforce "coming home" from deployment.
However this isn't the case in modern society, as people who're actively serving in the military tend not to be displaced by war in such huge numbers any more. While there are boots on the ground, a much larger proportion of war is now fought by proxy, using drone technology and long range weaponry, which doesn't put huge strain on the blue collar workforce to anywar near the extent that mass deployment of troops used to before the advent of modern warfare.
For the Empyrean War, capsuleers are the proxy.
Regardless of what happens, even if a conflict is impossible to win, if both sides persist in fighting without entering negotiation for a ceasefire, then neither side will back down. As soon as one side does, the other steamrolls through.
Effectively, the two are playing military chicken with eachother for political and economic gain, and are pretty much in a state of cold war with capsuleers fighting for them by proxy.
This is creating sustainable economic demand for goods and services that's keeping both economies from seeing a post conflict slump and recovery, and keeping trillions of people in the blue collar workforce employed and out of military service.
With the Federal elections coming up, the last thing Roden wants is to be questioned on an economic downturn when he can take the hawk's position of continuing to defend the Federation's borders against the Caldari thread, and keep his re-election campaign clean cut.
Similarly, the State is in a process of recovery from the administration of Tibus Heth. The last thing the Chief Executive Panel is looking for is an economic downturn when most of the megacorporations - Kaalakiota (who, despite being the largest megacorporation the State, almost went bankrupt under Heth's control) and Ishukone included, are still recovering from massive misappropriation of their funds and asset seizures by the CPD. I completely disagree with this assessment. I don't understand how you could possibly arrive at this conclusion. It's ridiculous.
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
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Divi Filus
New Xenocracy
62
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Posted - 2014.11.13 15:01:22 -
[40] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote: I completely disagree with this assessment. I don't understand how you could possibly arrive at this conclusion. It's ridiculous.
Propose an alternative that explains over six years of constant warfare fought by irregular forces in strictly limited frontier territories with no apparent consequences or threat to the integrity or security of Empire core worlds, no end in sight, and, as you put it, no way to win.
They're doing it because the people in charge have something to gain from it. Why is that difficult to understand? Hell, look at some of the players involved: the President of the Federation owns a vast shipbuilding enterprise with Navy contracts; several Caldari megacorporations, not least of which Kaalakiota (of which Tibus Heth was once CEO) are major arms manufacturers. War in New Eden is very good for business, particularly the business of those in the position to end it (and who therefore have no incentive to do so). |
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CCP Falcon
9322
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Posted - 2014.11.13 17:57:54 -
[41] - Quote
Divi Filus wrote:They're doing it because the people in charge have something to gain from it. Why is that difficult to understand? Hell, look at some of the players involved: the President of the Federation owns a vast shipbuilding enterprise with Navy contracts; several Caldari megacorporations, not least of which Kaalakiota (of which Tibus Heth was once CEO) are major arms manufacturers. War in New Eden is very good for business, particularly the business of those in the position to end it (and who therefore have no incentive to do so).
This is the truth, and for some, it hurts.
Both the Federation and the State are not as clean as people perceive them, or wish they were.
CCP Falcon || Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
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Karynn Denton
Clan Katanga Caravan
305
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Posted - 2014.11.13 18:12:48 -
[42] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:David Laurentson wrote: or by winning it. But there is no way to win it. There's no-one who would intentionally engage and continue engaging in a war that was impossible to win.
Oceania, Eurasia and Eastasia would like a word with you...
Karynn Denton
Caravan Master
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Circumstantial Evidence
152
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Posted - 2014.11.13 20:34:40 -
[43] - Quote
I'm happy Andreus Ixiris' statement got a thoughtful response centered in the lore, because all I could think was "Truth will trump (your) Logic" every time. Truth being represented by CCP Falcon, who "ought to know" what is going on ;) |
Evi Polevhia
Alexylva Paradox Low-Class
631
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Posted - 2014.11.15 18:50:33 -
[44] - Quote
I love that this thread became a thing again. It hurts to read these forums while unsubbed and know I can't reply. Good to be back, and good to know people still care about this. |
Liuni Kalthis
Scope Works
53
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Posted - 2014.11.17 19:32:23 -
[45] - Quote
Evi Polevhia wrote:I love that this thread became a thing again. It hurts to read these forums while unsubbed and know I can't reply. Good to be back, and good to know people still care about this.
welcome back toaster, I mean commander. |
Xindi Kraid
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
824
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Posted - 2014.11.23 13:09:33 -
[46] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:
With the Federal elections coming up, the last thing Roden wants is to be questioned on an economic downturn when he can take the hawk's position of continuing to defend the Federation's borders against the Caldari threat, and keep his re-election campaign clean cut.
Similarly, the State is in a process of recovery from the administration of Tibus Heth. The last thing the Chief Executive Panel is looking for is an economic downturn when most of the megacorporations - Kaalakiota (who, despite being the largest megacorporation the State, almost went bankrupt under Heth's control) and Ishukone included, are still recovering from massive misappropriation of their funds and asset seizures by the CPD.
While that is certainly true, a bit more BS rhetoric needs spread around. War is good for the economy is not likely to be a sustainable campaign platform.
Now I can certainly see why empires would be wanting to maintain the status quo, and capsuleers are always happy to oblige continuing on with blowing stuff up, but the reality is that things DO change, and the status quo isn't always possible to maintain. I certainly don't advocate immediate peace (or even peace at all), and wouldn't get rid of the FW mechanic, but I would like to see some cracks forming, maybe you hear about more pressure for peace from planetside groups, or maybe whatever is happening with the sleepers recently encourages the empires to dial things back to shore up defenses just in case.
Maybe FW could also get a bit of a change. It could certainly use more iteration, maybe add the ability to fly on behalf of pirate corporations. We certainly have enough third parties always taking advantage of FW for personal pew, maybe make it official and add new FW areas where pirate factions are fighting each other and/or trying to form a beachhead in empire space (on a related note I have heard numerous suggestions for sec status changing with sansha incusrions, allowing fw to control sec status would put more power in the player's hands). Maybe with things like the engagement between the minmatar and gallente navies, relations are chaffing between the two empires. You could have the alliance between the Republic and Federation break down, perhaps something happens between the State and Empire and relations break down there too, and the FW partners are swapped (so caldari and minmatar militias are now on the same side and amarr are flying with the gallente militia).
Anything really, I just like to see lore a bit less static, and more than that, I like to see the barriers between gameplay and lore reduced, make lore have more impact than just hints of upcoming content, but actually impact older aspects of eve, and have gameplay influence lore a bit more, and overall, make things happen so the universe seems more alive. |
Andreus Ixiris
Duty. Circle-Of-Two
5016
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Posted - 2014.11.26 00:36:00 -
[47] - Quote
Divi Filus wrote:Propose an alternative that explains over six years of constant warfare fought by irregular forces in strictly limited frontier territories with no apparent consequences or threat to the integrity or security of Empire core worlds, no end in sight, and, as you put it, no way to win. BAD.
GAME.
DESIGN.
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
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Aelisha
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Imperial Outlaws.
449
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Posted - 2014.11.28 13:36:31 -
[48] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:Divi Filus wrote:Propose an alternative that explains over six years of constant warfare fought by irregular forces in strictly limited frontier territories with no apparent consequences or threat to the integrity or security of Empire core worlds, no end in sight, and, as you put it, no way to win. BAD.
GAME.
DESIGN.
That and it is now so deeply rooted in the game economy that killing it would devastate entire portions of the community in terms of income, primary reason to play and industrial efforts.
No idea how to tackle it, but it seems more about changing the angle of the dig, rather than stopping the digging entirely. We're too deep and too steep to climb up now :S.
Combat Pilot for the Pyre Falcon Defense Combine
Intaki Reborn
Independent Capsuleer
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Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
2726
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Posted - 2014.11.28 18:03:34 -
[49] - Quote
Evi Polevhia wrote:So the way things are currently going look pretty good. It feels like the majority of the reason for GalCal war is solved. Heth is out. Largest cities of Caldari Prime are in Caldari hands showing a trend towards peaceful Caldari ownership. Diplomacy is securing what force won. So where does the story go from here?
The FW can't end. Such a large mechanic like that can't reasonably be removed. So what explodes next? Something has to happen to keep the fires of war between the two burning. There aren't enough Diana Kim's to keep the war going on pure hatred.
IC I would love for the war to end. Hatred of that war is actually one of the things that pushed Polevhia to where she is now. But there has to be an earth shattering kaboom. Sooner or later.
Without having read anything that followed the OP... I'll say this:
If progress towards peace with the Caldari seems progressive... its only because the Gallente are slow send the next wave...
The Federation will rise again!
Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
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Andreus Ixiris
Duty. Circle-Of-Two
5029
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Posted - 2014.11.29 19:05:32 -
[50] - Quote
To elaborate on my somewhat terse reply - dodgy lore is being written to justify the continuation of badly designed, poorly-maintained game mechanics, which in turn is perpetuating the continuation of the badly designed, poorly-maintained game mechanics.
What should actually be happening is CCP should either be radically revising the game mechanics in question, or failing that, using the lore as a justification for removing them. If the lore dictates that a game mechanic should be gotten rid of? Get rid of it.
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1725
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Posted - 2014.11.29 20:31:29 -
[51] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:To elaborate on my somewhat terse reply - dodgy lore is being written to justify the continuation of badly designed, poorly-maintained game mechanics, which in turn is perpetuating the continuation of the badly designed, poorly-maintained game mechanics.
What should actually be happening is CCP should either be radically revising the game mechanics in question, or failing that, using the lore as a justification for removing them. If the lore dictates that a game mechanic should be gotten rid of? Get rid of it. Or write good lore. If the two sides want to keep using FW as a means of diverting peoples attention from things and to support their own companies, then there should be some lore events happening around that. A small atrocity here, a small ambush there. Carefully calculated incidents to inflame public opinion without boiling it too high into full scale war again. Rather than the current situation where all we see is steps towards peace. With some behind the scenes lore arguments. |
Andreus Ixiris
Duty. Circle-Of-Two
5029
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Posted - 2014.11.29 22:40:20 -
[52] - Quote
No, that'd still be bad lore because it's propping up an inherently unrealistic situation in which there's no believable, let alone realistic reason for the war to continue.
FW is broken as hell and we all know it - it's the job of the lore to highlight that, not to prop it up.
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
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Xindi Kraid
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
839
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Posted - 2014.11.30 06:20:30 -
[53] - Quote
Aelisha wrote: That and it is now so deeply rooted in the game economy that killing it would devastate entire portions of the community in terms of income, primary reason to play and industrial efforts.
No idea how to tackle it, but it seems more about changing the angle of the dig, rather than stopping the digging entirely. We're too deep and too steep to climb up now :S.
That's exactly my though on this. We can't just kill it since it's become a rather sizable part of the game. It doesn't have to stagnate though. Remember one of the things players have always pushed for the most is iteration on mechanics. That's exactly why I am proposing that FW remain in some form, but the form change. For the people who take part for the mechanics and don't care about the lore, it probably isn't going to make a huge difference for them, and for the people who do care about the lore, it would likley flow more naturally from the story than the continuing of a war in the face of people working for peace.
Again I am suggesting something happen to cause the empires to want to change sides and reexamine their alliances or to introduce another party that people can join such as the pirate factions so that FW can slowly shift to something else such as empire vs pirate rather than empire vs empire. I am sure there are players out there would would love to fight for the pirates for the LP, and there are RP players who role-play that they are allied with non-empire factions, and letting them actually do something more IN-GAME with that helps the depth of the story.
Andreus Ixiris wrote:No, that'd still be bad lore because it's propping up an inherently unrealistic situation in which there's no believable, let alone realistic reason for the war to continue.
FW is broken as hell and we all know it - it's the job of the lore to highlight that, not to prop it up. Perhaps, perhaps not.
There has been war (under a different name) in the Middle East for quite some time now, so it's not something that would be unreasonable to include in a story. The thing to keep in mind, though, is that the hot spots and belligerents tend to change every few years.
I would also note that while the east and west aren't openly hostile since the fall of the Soviet Union, relations between NATO and former Warsaw Pact aren't totally amicable. There are varying levels of "peace" and "war" |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1727
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Posted - 2014.11.30 06:28:28 -
[54] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:No, that'd still be bad lore because it's propping up an inherently unrealistic situation in which there's no believable, let alone realistic reason for the war to continue.
FW is broken as hell and we all know it - it's the job of the lore to highlight that, not to prop it up. Except a specifically manufactured limited war is realistic. We see it in modern reality, and since EVE is about being Human with all the negative things that come with that along with the positives, makes perfect sense to fight a proxy war to keep a whole bunch of people distracted and cowed, and others become rich and happy on the proceeds.
What isn't believable is that this war is being kept going with no visible forces acting on it. Which is where the news needs to include incidents that capsuleers can see are probably manufactured but Joe Public believes are enemy action.
Or FW could reduce in scope obviously to match the current lack of news.
But it does not make it bad lore for CCP to say that there are forces in each government who are making a profit from a proxy war. And who like that profit. |
Evi Polevhia
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Imperial Outlaws.
654
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Posted - 2014.12.02 12:44:16 -
[55] - Quote
The idea that the Empires could be in a war for 6 years strains credibility! There's no way the Empires could prop up a lame war with ****** excuses that long.
*Goes back to protesting the 13 year long war in Afghanistan* |
Andreus Ixiris
Duty. Circle-Of-Two
5048
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Posted - 2014.12.02 17:20:03 -
[56] - Quote
Evi Polevhia wrote:The idea that the Empires could be in a war for 6 years strains credibility! There's no way the Empires could prop up a lame war with ****** excuses that long.
*Goes back to protesting the 13 year long war in Afghanistan* Are we really doing this? Are you really going to sink this low?
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
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Andreus Ixiris
Duty. Circle-Of-Two
5187
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Posted - 2014.12.19 05:57:45 -
[57] - Quote
And here's another thing, okay? If players have the ability to continue the war, then players should also have the ability to assist in the peace process. Players need to be able to have a tangible effect on the story.
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
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Evi Polevhia
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
686
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Posted - 2014.12.19 15:50:53 -
[58] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:And here's another thing, okay? If players have the ability to continue the war, then players should also have the ability to assist in the peace process. Players need to be able to have a tangible effect on the story. This I great, and in my opinion desirable, but way more tricky than it sounds. The problem isn't the peace process. The problem is removing a core game feature of EVE Online, Fac War. You can't bring about peace in this situation. Just like Nation is locked into this silly Forever Incursion.
If you know a way to establish Peace In Our Times without removing core game features, let us know. |
Andreus Ixiris
Duty. Circle-Of-Two
5201
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Posted - 2014.12.20 12:40:19 -
[59] - Quote
The absolute worst part of Factional Warfare and Empyrean Age was the downtime events, both in what they were (surprise! Federation Navy is literally worthless, and all these Minmatar ships from absolutely nowhere! Oh, and Sarum's not dead, greivously insulting a vast number of Amarrian roleplayers) and in the fact that CCP christened an expansion which was supposed to be about handing some limited control of empire lore over to players (and we've all seen what a joke that's turned out to be) by trusting its players with the game's lore so little that it had to force through everything at a time when players couldn't do jack squat to stop it.
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
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Rinai Vero
Moira. Villore Accords
363
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Posted - 2015.01.29 20:45:47 -
[60] - Quote
There are pretty major problems with FW / Lore and the whole suspension of disbelief concept. I think Andreus is perhaps too harsh, but there's definitely validity there as well.
I think Pirate vs Empire FW makes a lot more sense than the current game mechanics being kept on life support until the EVE severs shut down. It makes much more sense that the Empires would be engaged in long intractable conflict with Pirate factions within Low Security space than being in never ending conflict with each other. I think realistically the Empires would find cause to return to a more settled state of Cold War with an occasional skirmish here and there as it was Pre Empyrean Age. |
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