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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 25 post(s) |
admiral root
Red Galaxy
1563
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Posted - 2014.09.01 20:45:00 -
[3931] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Ehrmmm....no.....Imagine 100 ships went in, 99 Machariels and one Freighter. All the Machs lived and the Freighter died. The total death rate was 1%. The Freighter death rate was 100%, which is certainly not upwardly bound by the 1% total death rate. See what I'm saying?
I see what you're saying but I don't see what value that number would have unless you want to run around screaming the sky is falling because 100% of freighters that jump into a system die. The number that matters in your scenario is 1%. No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff |
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
185
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Posted - 2014.09.01 20:45:00 -
[3932] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:My analysis was based on the CODE killboard, their website, my intel channels, my experiences in Uedama, and the increasing frequency of complaints by freighter pilots. Those points are all unassailable. Obviously hard numbers would, I believe, further support my position. It's snowing outside, so the earth must be cooling.
Maybe you should pick 20 other random highsec systems and observe there for a while and not only the one system we ganked Freighters in the last month. the Code ALWAYS wins |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
6827
|
Posted - 2014.09.01 20:49:00 -
[3933] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:My analysis was based on the CODE killboard, their website, my intel channels, my experiences in Uedama, and the increasing frequency of complaints by freighter pilots. Those points are all unassailable. Obviously hard numbers would, I believe, further support my position. It's snowing outside, so the earth must be cooling. Maybe you should pick 20 other random highsec systems and observe there for a while and not only the one system we ganked Freighters in the last month.
It would also follow that if they were ganking freighters in Uedama, they werent doing it so much elsewhere. As there are more gates outside Uedama (and freighters) than inside, I would like to thank CODE for preventing ganking in the rest of New Eden and securing the transit of freighters in the rest of space by not being there.
Is that how this works? Becuase CODE are the only gankers that matter, right? Because only they affect Freighter losses galaxy wide, right? "Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
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Hengle Teron
Mew Age Outpaws
107
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Posted - 2014.09.01 20:50:00 -
[3934] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:baltec1 wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:baltec1 wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:
I think this is also an important post, because real data would really help things here. Unfortunately I don't have the numbers, and I don't see any source for your numbers. It would help if CCP would be more open with this data. Would you be able to check if freighter ganking has inreased since CODE started their freighter gank campaign?
It hasn't. Compared to a year ago freighter ganking has halved. Can you source your data for me? Freighter kills have not been upward trending in the last 2 months? Our own records. Data can be found on zkill. Ganking freighters might be up from 2 months ago but it is still down from last year. Barge ganking when compared to 3 years ago is also dramatically lower. Are you able to share this data? I'm not sure if you talking about absolute numbers, relative frequency, etc.... Also, it should be easy enough for you to check of the number of freighters blown up in the last 2 month has been increasing...a lot of people here seem to doubt it. A short term increase does not a trend make |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
6827
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Posted - 2014.09.01 20:50:00 -
[3935] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Also, it should be easy enough for you to check of the number of freighters blown up in the last 2 month has been increasing...a lot of people here seem to doubt it.
So why havent you? "Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of Eden
16
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Posted - 2014.09.01 20:50:00 -
[3936] - Quote
[/quote]Well.... looking at zkill there are no freighter/orca deaths showing in Uedama for today, there were 8 yesterday. Considering Uedama is a choke point on a trade pipe I would hazard a very conservative guess that at least 10% of the jumps through Uedama were freighters.
Assuming my conservative estimate of 10% is true, a sub 2% death rate over the weekend, a traditionally good time to kill folks, is hardly "endless ganking" and that 2% includes war decs.
Evidentally your math is as poor as your game knowledge.[/quote]
I seriously, seriously, doubt that 10% of the jumps were by freighters, that sounds crazy. And anyway, I think that a 2% chance of your freighter xploding is kind of concerning. Certainly, after thousands and thousands of jumps in my Machariel, it has not once been suicide ganked, even though I am often carrying billions in equipment on it. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
12933
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Posted - 2014.09.01 20:50:00 -
[3937] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:
Are you able to share this data? I'm not sure if you talking about absolute numbers, relative frequency, etc.... Also, it should be easy enough for you to check of the number of freighters blown up in the last 2 month has been increasing...a lot of people here seem to doubt it.
All the raw data is on zkill, feel free to go look.
Code are destroying fewer freighters than we were at this point last year. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of Eden
16
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Posted - 2014.09.01 20:51:00 -
[3938] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Also, it should be easy enough for you to check of the number of freighters blown up in the last 2 month has been increasing...a lot of people here seem to doubt it. So why havent you?
Because Goons have the hard data and I don't! |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
12933
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Posted - 2014.09.01 20:52:00 -
[3939] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Also, it should be easy enough for you to check of the number of freighters blown up in the last 2 month has been increasing...a lot of people here seem to doubt it. So why havent you? Because Goons have the hard data and I don't!
Yes, you do. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Lady Areola Fappington
2178
|
Posted - 2014.09.01 20:53:00 -
[3940] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote: They did it because an extremely vocal minority of carebears cried in the forums kinda like now with the difference that most of the real players did not give a frak about the forums and ignored the tears until it was too late.
This is what brings me here. I don't write here to convince you with my arguments, I and many others are here to counter your flawed reasoning with sound arguments so that the reader and CCP dev with brain who actually reads this threads full of carebear tears sees that there are people who care about the game and why ideas like yours go against the core of the game and will damage it even more and maybe forever.
TBH, I know the "11 years of nerfs" line is kind of a thing with gankers, but honestly there's been very few direct nerfs. Insurance payouts and The Boomerang are the two most obvious ones.
The vast majority of ganking nerfs have been indirect changes to other systems that impact ganking in a negative way.
In a way, insurance payouts ended up being a sort of buff to gankers overall. Back in the insurance days, people ganked to make ISK. As an ISK making venture, quality was valued over quantity, and it was pretty easy to float under the gank radar. No need for organization or any such on the ganker's side.
Once direct ISK profit got taken away, ganking needed to find an alternate revenue stream. Hence, the monetization of "tears". Can't tell who will end up being a good tear whale that generates humor (and results in donations), so...gank all the things.
I don't agree with Solecist on many things, but he's pretty much right. It's not the number of ganks happening, it's the way they're presented. Even if CODE were only ganking one freighter a month, there'd still be threads like this created. Kentucky Derby losers are not turned into Ikea meatballs. Dzhokhar Tsarnaev did not accidentally blow up vowels in his own name. The chupacabra does not deliver presents on Cinco De Mayo. Anytime minutes donGÇÖt let you call the future. |
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
187
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Posted - 2014.09.01 20:54:00 -
[3941] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Is that how this works? Becuase CODE are the only gankers that matter, right? Because only they affect Freighter losses galaxy wide, right? Yes, because Veers was only in Uedama and only CODE. was present, so we must be the only gankers in EVE. It's probably also the only system in EVE, which makes it of course galaxy wide.
If I see a white swan I can then deduce that all swans are white. That's how it works right? the Code ALWAYS wins |
Mag's
the united
17788
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Posted - 2014.09.01 20:55:00 -
[3942] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Also, it should be easy enough for you to check of the number of freighters blown up in the last 2 month has been increasing...a lot of people here seem to doubt it. So why havent you? Because Goons have the hard data and I don't! Let's say that for arguments sake, the numbers have been increasing for the last 2 months. What does this actually mean and why should we care?
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
6827
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Posted - 2014.09.01 20:56:00 -
[3943] - Quote
My hauling alt has also made thousands of jumps, mostly in a freighter. Only ever lost one, and that was to an AWOX when he was a baby.
So by the same "evidence", I disagree Veers. "Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of Eden
16
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Posted - 2014.09.01 20:57:00 -
[3944] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Also, it should be easy enough for you to check of the number of freighters blown up in the last 2 month has been increasing...a lot of people here seem to doubt it. So why havent you? Because Goons have the hard data and I don't! Yes, you do.
But I don't have your crack team of trained monkeys which collected all the data and put it into nice, easy to read spreadsheets and charts! |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
12933
|
Posted - 2014.09.01 20:59:00 -
[3945] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:
But I don't have your crack team of trained monkeys which collected all the data and put it into nice, easy to read spreadsheets and charts!
Doesn't stop you from doing it yourself. All of the data is open to the public. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20643
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Posted - 2014.09.01 21:00:00 -
[3946] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:I seriously, seriously, doubt that 10% of the jumps were by freighters, that sounds crazy. And anyway, I think that a 2% chance of your freighter xploding is kind of concerning. 10% is a conservative estimate, Redfrog and PushX probably rack most of that that up by themselves. You carry on doubting.
Uedama is a chokepoint on a major pipe between 3 major hubs, if you're using a freighter to get to to Jita from Dodixie and Rens/Hek you pretty much have to go through it. It's why it's such a profitable place to gank. The difference between a carebear and a bear is that one expects the world to revolve around them, the other accepts the world for what it is and works around it.
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of Eden
16
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Posted - 2014.09.01 21:01:00 -
[3947] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:
But I don't have your crack team of trained monkeys which collected all the data and put it into nice, easy to read spreadsheets and charts!
Doesn't stop you from doing it yourself. All of the data is open to the public.
Why not make your data public so we can all use it instead of asking me to redo hundreds of hours of work? |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20643
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Posted - 2014.09.01 21:03:00 -
[3948] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:baltec1 wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:
But I don't have your crack team of trained monkeys which collected all the data and put it into nice, easy to read spreadsheets and charts!
Doesn't stop you from doing it yourself. All of the data is open to the public. Why not make your data public so we can all use it instead of asking me to redo hundreds of hours of work? You're the one making spurious claims, it's up to you to provide your own evidence. All the data you need is publicly available.
The difference between a carebear and a bear is that one expects the world to revolve around them, the other accepts the world for what it is and works around it.
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
Mag's
the united
17790
|
Posted - 2014.09.01 21:03:00 -
[3949] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:baltec1 wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:
But I don't have your crack team of trained monkeys which collected all the data and put it into nice, easy to read spreadsheets and charts!
Doesn't stop you from doing it yourself. All of the data is open to the public. Why not make your data public so we can all use it instead of asking me to redo hundreds of hours of work? Which part of the statement "All of the data is open to the public" didn't you understand?
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of Eden
16
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Posted - 2014.09.01 21:06:00 -
[3950] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:baltec1 wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:
But I don't have your crack team of trained monkeys which collected all the data and put it into nice, easy to read spreadsheets and charts!
Doesn't stop you from doing it yourself. All of the data is open to the public. Why not make your data public so we can all use it instead of asking me to redo hundreds of hours of work? Which part of the statement "All of the data is open to the public" didn't you understand?
I'm not the goons, I don't have 300 man hours for this project. The circumstantial evidence is overwhelming that CODE has caused a significant increase in freighter ganking in the last 2 months. The goons have the massaged data which can confirm or deny this. Why not release it for everyone to use? |
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of Eden
16
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Posted - 2014.09.01 21:09:00 -
[3951] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:baltec1 wrote:
Our own records. Data can be found on zkill.
Ganking freighters might be up from 2 months ago but it is still down from last year. Barge ganking when compared to 3 years ago is also dramatically lower.
Are you able to share this data? I'm not sure if you talking about absolute numbers, relative frequency, etc.... Also, it should be easy enough for you to check of the number of freighters blown up in the last 2 month has been increasing...a lot of people here seem to doubt it. As he said, historical data on Freighter kills can be found here: https://zkillboard.com/kills/freighters/Nobody's going to do your job for you. You made the claim, you provide the evidence to support it.
Gee....or we could ask the person who already did the work to just share the final product with us. I'm sure the Goons would be happy to help us make Eve a better place. |
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
21
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Posted - 2014.09.01 21:10:00 -
[3952] - Quote
Regardless of whether its increasing or not(It seems to be), it is broken in terms of risk/reward/penalty, and the victims are primarily newer and casual players who are preyed upon due to the commonality of them being unfamiliar with concord response times.
It adds nothing to the game and is actually hurting it in addition to being and looking(bumping) ridiculous. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
6834
|
Posted - 2014.09.01 21:10:00 -
[3953] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:circumstantial evidence is overwhelming
"Circumstantial evidence is evidence that relies on an inference to connect it to a conclusion of fact"
Im not sure how it could ever be "overwhelming". "Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
12934
|
Posted - 2014.09.01 21:11:00 -
[3954] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:baltec1 wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:
But I don't have your crack team of trained monkeys which collected all the data and put it into nice, easy to read spreadsheets and charts!
Doesn't stop you from doing it yourself. All of the data is open to the public. Why not make your data public so we can all use it instead of asking me to redo hundreds of hours of work?
Same reason we don't give out our financial data to the public, its our data the we use in our own projects. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Mag's
the united
17792
|
Posted - 2014.09.01 21:11:00 -
[3955] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Mag's wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:baltec1 wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:
But I don't have your crack team of trained monkeys which collected all the data and put it into nice, easy to read spreadsheets and charts!
Doesn't stop you from doing it yourself. All of the data is open to the public. Why not make your data public so we can all use it instead of asking me to redo hundreds of hours of work? Which part of the statement "All of the data is open to the public" didn't you understand? I'm not the goons, I don't have 300 man hours for this project. The circumstantial evidence is overwhelming that CODE has caused a significant increase in freighter ganking in the last 2 months. The goons have the massaged data which can confirm or deny this. Why not release it for everyone to use? Circumstantial evidence from where?
Plus as has already been said to you. If you make the claim, then it's your job to back it up with factual evidence. I.E. not circumstantial. You have the date it's public, use it. Also as I already asked even if for arguments sake it turns out there was in increase in the last 2 months. What does this mean and why should we care?
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
6834
|
Posted - 2014.09.01 21:11:00 -
[3956] - Quote
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:(1) it is broken in terms of risk/reward/penalty, and (2)the victims are primarily newer and casual players who are preyed upon due to the commonality of them being unfamiliar with concord response times.
(1) In what way?
(2) Newer casual players driving 700m isk+ freighters? And they dont know how long it takses CONCORD to show up? Seems unlikely. "Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
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RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5442
|
Posted - 2014.09.01 21:16:00 -
[3957] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:baltec1 wrote:
Our own records. Data can be found on zkill.
Ganking freighters might be up from 2 months ago but it is still down from last year. Barge ganking when compared to 3 years ago is also dramatically lower.
Are you able to share this data? I'm not sure if you talking about absolute numbers, relative frequency, etc.... Also, it should be easy enough for you to check of the number of freighters blown up in the last 2 month has been increasing...a lot of people here seem to doubt it. As he said, historical data on Freighter kills can be found here: https://zkillboard.com/kills/freighters/Nobody's going to do your job for you. You made the claim, you provide the evidence to support it. Gee....or we could ask the person who already did the work to just share the final product with us. I'm sure the Goons would be happy to help us make Eve a better place.
They're not making any claims. You are. Which means it's your job to provide evidence to support your claims.
If I claim Coca-Cola is made of Cheese, I don't get to insist that the Coca-Cola Company release the recipe in order to disprove my claim. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
9741
|
Posted - 2014.09.01 21:18:00 -
[3958] - Quote
*sibs peppermint tea* - Please people, keep it on topic and above all Sibyyl! - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=369657 When ppl think it's fun to respond to HATE, all they show ... is their own. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
6836
|
Posted - 2014.09.01 21:18:00 -
[3959] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:they are also in love with fatigue wearing cigar smoking dictators.
Patria o Muerte Venceremos "Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of Eden
16
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Posted - 2014.09.01 21:20:00 -
[3960] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:baltec1 wrote:
Our own records. Data can be found on zkill.
Ganking freighters might be up from 2 months ago but it is still down from last year. Barge ganking when compared to 3 years ago is also dramatically lower.
Are you able to share this data? I'm not sure if you talking about absolute numbers, relative frequency, etc.... Also, it should be easy enough for you to check of the number of freighters blown up in the last 2 month has been increasing...a lot of people here seem to doubt it. As he said, historical data on Freighter kills can be found here: https://zkillboard.com/kills/freighters/Nobody's going to do your job for you. You made the claim, you provide the evidence to support it. Gee....or we could ask the person who already did the work to just share the final product with us. I'm sure the Goons would be happy to help us make Eve a better place. They're not making any claims. You are. Which means it's your job to provide evidence to support your claims. If I claim Coca-Cola is made of Cheese, I don't get to insist that the Coca-Cola Company release the recipe in order to disprove my claim.
Yes, and I provided strong circumstantial evidence for it. I am not required to spend 300 hours manually tabulating the hard numbers, especially when ze Goons have already done so, but won't release the numbers.
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