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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 25 post(s) |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of Eden
17
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 05:26:00 -
[4141] - Quote
Scenario: Ganker shoots you, you die(maybe). CONCORD shows up and kill ganker(guaranteed). You warps away(maybe). [/quote]
And therefore what? all I've done is make it so that post CONCORD showing up you can't be bumped....where is the problem here? |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
12948
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 05:26:00 -
[4142] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote: They will come and blow up the pointers. My solution replicates that, in that they come and "release" the point, allowing you to warp off. Now what is the horrible downside to this?
Because it means CCP is protecting you rather than you protecting yourself.
Do you even know why freighters are bumped? Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Devils Embrace
Spidercakes Baked Goods and Industriel Servises
52
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 05:26:00 -
[4143] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:baltec1 wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:
Except they will protect you from your incompetence in getting scrammed, right? And why is my idea terrible? Please give me your horrible scenario.
No, they wont. Concord will not stop people from pointing you. They will come and blow up the pointers. My solution replicates that, in that they come and "release" the point, allowing you to warp off. Now what is the horrible downside to this?
Your solution changes game mechanics that dont need to be changed. EVE is a dark and gritty universe. You want "protection", go play "Hello Kitty Online Adventures". Get over it! It's like they usually say about fantasy MMO's and men playing female characters: "If I'm going to spend alot of time watching this character, it might as well have a good looking ass". |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of Eden
17
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 05:27:00 -
[4144] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:You completely failed to give a scenario where this would be problematic. Incorrect. You just didn't understand it GÇö as always GÇö and said so very clearly.
Nice try, your scenario completely broke down and my idea had no unintended effects. |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of Eden
17
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 05:28:00 -
[4145] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Veers Belvar wrote: They will come and blow up the pointers. My solution replicates that, in that they come and "release" the point, allowing you to warp off. Now what is the horrible downside to this?
Because it means CCP is protecting you rather than you protecting yourself. Do you even know why freighters are bumped?
Yes, to stop the from aligning and warping off. And when CCP comes and blows up people scramming you, isnt that CCP protecting you rather than you protecting yourself? |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
12948
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 05:30:00 -
[4146] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:baltec1 wrote:Veers Belvar wrote: They will come and blow up the pointers. My solution replicates that, in that they come and "release" the point, allowing you to warp off. Now what is the horrible downside to this?
Because it means CCP is protecting you rather than you protecting yourself. Do you even know why freighters are bumped? Yes, to stop the from aligning and warping off.
Wrong.
They are still able to warp off if they use a web or warp to a celestial or safe or to a ship that is in front of them. They are bumped to get them away from the gate guns and navy ships on the gate. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24355
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 05:30:00 -
[4147] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Yes, to stop the from aligning and warping off. But why? (They can still align and warp off, by the way).
Quote:And when CCP comes and blows up people scramming you, isnt that CCP protecting you rather than you protecting yourself? No. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of Eden
17
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 05:33:00 -
[4148] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:baltec1 wrote:Veers Belvar wrote: They will come and blow up the pointers. My solution replicates that, in that they come and "release" the point, allowing you to warp off. Now what is the horrible downside to this?
Because it means CCP is protecting you rather than you protecting yourself. Do you even know why freighters are bumped? Yes, to stop the from aligning and warping off. Wrong. They are still able to warp off if they use a web or warp to a celestial or safe or to a ship that is in front of them. They are bumped to get them away from the gate guns and navy ships on the gate.
If they could just warp off to a celestial bumping would be pretty pointless, right? No one would do it. Obviously it is done in such a way that you want have time to align and reach the threshold speed to warp to a celestial. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
12948
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 05:35:00 -
[4149] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:
If they could just warp off to a celestial bumping would be pretty pointless, right? No one would do it. Obviously it is done in such a way that you want have time to align and reach the threshold speed to warp to a celestial.
People are stupid Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1162
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 05:37:00 -
[4150] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:
If they could just warp off to a celestial bumping would be pretty pointless, right? No one would do it. Obviously it is done in such a way that you want have time to align and reach the threshold speed to warp to a celestial.
People are stupid Exactly... Pilots that don't even understand the basic game mechanics. They make easy kills though |
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Devils Embrace
Spidercakes Baked Goods and Industriel Servises
52
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 05:39:00 -
[4151] - Quote
Not just people, the combative poster that doesnt understand game mechanics is STUPID. It's like they usually say about fantasy MMO's and men playing female characters: "If I'm going to spend alot of time watching this character, it might as well have a good looking ass". |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24357
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 05:39:00 -
[4152] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:That stupid? In 15 mins of being bumped they couldn't muster the basic competence to click on a nearby celestial and press "warp to." You're finally getting it. Do you understand how why your GÇ£experienceGÇ¥ was disqualified as pretty much worthless and irrelevant to the discussion?
Quote:And anyhow I tried telling an Orca pilot to do it in Uedama, and he said he kept trying but the bumping made it impossible, so I don't think that is foolproof at all. What happened is that you met the proverbial bigger fool. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of Eden
17
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 05:43:00 -
[4153] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:That stupid? In 15 mins of being bumped they couldn't muster the basic competence to click on a nearby celestial and press "warp to." You're finally getting it. Do you understand how why your GÇ£experienceGÇ¥ was disqualified as pretty much worthless and irrelevant to the discussion? Quote:And anyhow I tried telling an Orca pilot to do it in Uedama, and he said he kept trying but the bumping made it impossible, so I don't think that is foolproof at all. What happened is that you met the proverbial bigger fool.
I'm just not seeing it guys, and it really is a question for CCP. Whether an optimally piloted freighter can always manage to warp off during 15 minutes of bumping by 3 optimally fitted and piloted Machariels. I really don't think the answer is "yes." I can't fathom that so many freighter pilots would be so stupid as to miss a trivial way of avoiding the bumping and saving their ship. I think it's a whole lot tougher to do than you are claiming. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24358
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 05:45:00 -
[4154] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:I'm just not seeing it guys Then open your eyes. It's not any more complicated than that.
Quote:it really is a question for CCP. Whether an optimally piloted freighter can always manage to warp off during 15 minutes of bumping by 3 optimally fitted and piloted Machariels. It's not a question for them, because the answer is obvious: yes. The mechanics say so, experience says so, in fact, everything says so. Trying to appeal to a GÇ£higher powerGÇ¥ to change the fact of the matter will not work.
Quote:I really don't think the answer is "yes." I can't fathom that so many freighter pilots would be so stupid as to miss a trivial way of avoiding the bumping and saving their ship. Welcome to highsec. The answer is not any more complicated than that. If you think otherwise, the only solution is for you to stop. Breaking the game certainly won't solve the problem.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of Eden
17
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 05:48:00 -
[4155] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:I'm just not seeing it guys Then open your eyes. It's not any more complicated than that. Quote:it really is a question for CCP. Whether an optimally piloted freighter can always manage to warp off during 15 minutes of bumping by 3 optimally fitted and piloted Machariels. It's not a question for them, because the answer is obvious: yes. The mechanics say so, experience says so, in fact, everything says so. Trying to appeal to a GÇ£higher powerGÇ¥ to change the fact of the matter will not work. Quote:I really don't think the answer is "yes." I can't fathom that so many freighter pilots would be so stupid as to miss a trivial way of avoiding the bumping and saving their ship. Welcome to highsec. The answer is not any more complicated than that. If you think otherwise, the only solution is for you to stop. Breaking the game certainly won't solve the problem.
And again from you...merely asserting that X is true, without proving it, and with significant evidence to the contrary, does not make it true. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1162
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 05:48:00 -
[4156] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:I'm just not seeing it guys, and it really is a question for CCP. Oh it's clear you're not seeing it.
CCP already said what they had to say on this matter. You're just not happy with what that was so you want something different. Not going to happen so sorry |
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5477
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 05:49:00 -
[4157] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:I'm just not seeing it guys, and it really is a question for CCP. Whether an optimally piloted freighter can always manage to warp off during 15 minutes of bumping by 3 optimally fitted and piloted Machariels. I really don't think the answer is "yes." I can't fathom that so many freighter pilots would be so stupid as to miss a trivial way of avoiding the bumping and saving their ship. I think it's a whole lot tougher to do than you are claiming.
Again, why should a solo pilot be able to escape the efforts of three pilots specifically fit and flown to stop him?
They have a good shot at escaping a single mach and with help (webber or interceptor) can escape a large number of machs. The reason for this is the way warping works, which bumping doesn't stop. If you are moving in the direction of your warp target at better than 75% of your speed, you will immediately enter warp. Doesn't matter why you're moving that direction. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
Devils Embrace
Spidercakes Baked Goods and Industriel Servises
52
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 05:49:00 -
[4158] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Tippia wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:That stupid? In 15 mins of being bumped they couldn't muster the basic competence to click on a nearby celestial and press "warp to." You're finally getting it. Do you understand how why your GÇ£experienceGÇ¥ was disqualified as pretty much worthless and irrelevant to the discussion? Quote:And anyhow I tried telling an Orca pilot to do it in Uedama, and he said he kept trying but the bumping made it impossible, so I don't think that is foolproof at all. What happened is that you met the proverbial bigger fool. I'm just not seeing it guys, and it really is a question for CCP. Whether an optimally piloted freighter can always manage to warp off during 15 minutes of bumping by 3 optimally fitted and piloted Machariels. I really don't think the answer is "yes." I can't fathom that so many freighter pilots would be so stupid as to miss a trivial way of avoiding the bumping and saving their ship. I think it's a whole lot tougher to do than you are claiming.
When they bump you, aim for the nearest celestial in the direction you are traveling. Problem solved. If they bump you away from any celestial, you Sir are SOL
It's like they usually say about fantasy MMO's and men playing female characters: "If I'm going to spend alot of time watching this character, it might as well have a good looking ass". |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of Eden
17
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 05:50:00 -
[4159] - Quote
IIshira wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:I'm just not seeing it guys, and it really is a question for CCP. Oh it's clear you're not seeing it. CCP already said what they had to say on this matter. You're just not happy with what that was so you want something different. Not going to happen so sorry
CCP never answered this question...and they are constantly analyzing the situation to investigate altering game mechanics. I am confident that CODE's campaign of destruction will draw a response from CCP, especially in regards to disincentivizing the ganking of empty freighters. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24358
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 05:50:00 -
[4160] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:And again from you...merely asserting that X is true, without proving it, and with significant evidence to the contrary, does not make it true. No, but the ample evidence provided to you proves it. If, after all that, and after having every detailed you got wrong explained to you, you still refuse to think that things work the way they work, then that's not a problem that can be fixed by changing the game.
The only solution to you not believing in reality is for you to start believing in reality. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of Eden
17
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 05:51:00 -
[4161] - Quote
Devils Embrace wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Tippia wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:That stupid? In 15 mins of being bumped they couldn't muster the basic competence to click on a nearby celestial and press "warp to." You're finally getting it. Do you understand how why your GÇ£experienceGÇ¥ was disqualified as pretty much worthless and irrelevant to the discussion? Quote:And anyhow I tried telling an Orca pilot to do it in Uedama, and he said he kept trying but the bumping made it impossible, so I don't think that is foolproof at all. What happened is that you met the proverbial bigger fool. I'm just not seeing it guys, and it really is a question for CCP. Whether an optimally piloted freighter can always manage to warp off during 15 minutes of bumping by 3 optimally fitted and piloted Machariels. I really don't think the answer is "yes." I can't fathom that so many freighter pilots would be so stupid as to miss a trivial way of avoiding the bumping and saving their ship. I think it's a whole lot tougher to do than you are claiming. When they bump you, aim for the nearest celestial in the direction you are traveling. Problem solved. If they bump you away from any celestial, you Sir are SOL
EXACTLY. If the bumpers are competent, and bump you away from celestials, like I assume they do in Uedama, you are SOL. Which is exactly as I suspected. Thank you for clearing this up. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
9469
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 05:51:00 -
[4162] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote: I can't fathom that so many freighter pilots would be so stupid as to miss a trivial way of avoiding the bumping and saving their ship. I think it's a whole lot tougher to do than you are claiming.
I can, easily. It's called entitlement.
They think they shouldn't have to, so they don't. All of these people who die in highsec are not ignorant of everything, they get along thinking "it won't happen to me", until one day it does. Hence why they cry about it.
The sad part is that the way the rules work for PvP in highsec, that if they do think "it won't happen to me", they have a good chance of being right about that. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of Eden
17
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 05:52:00 -
[4163] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:I'm just not seeing it guys, and it really is a question for CCP. Whether an optimally piloted freighter can always manage to warp off during 15 minutes of bumping by 3 optimally fitted and piloted Machariels. I really don't think the answer is "yes." I can't fathom that so many freighter pilots would be so stupid as to miss a trivial way of avoiding the bumping and saving their ship. I think it's a whole lot tougher to do than you are claiming. Again, why should a solo pilot be able to escape the efforts of three pilots specifically fit and flown to stop him? They have a good shot at escaping a single mach and with help (webber or interceptor) can escape a large number of machs. The reason for this is the way warping works, which bumping doesn't stop. If you are moving in the direction of your warp target at better than 75% of your speed, you will immediately enter warp. Doesn't matter why you're moving that direction.
Why should a single pilot be able to escape the efforts of three pilots specifically fit and flown to warp scramble him? And still CONCORD comes and blows them up, ending the scrambling. |
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5477
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 05:52:00 -
[4164] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:EXACTLY. If the bumpers are competent, and bump you away from celestials, like I assume they do in Uedama, you are SOL. Which is exactly as I suspected. Thank you for clearing this up.
Then be competent yourself and either have bookmarks prepared or have a friend burn you a warpout in an interceptor.
This is a multiplayer game. They brought friends, you can too.
Veers Belvar wrote:Why should a single pilot be able to escape the efforts of three pilots specifically fit and flown to warp scramble him? And still CONCORD comes and blows them up, ending the scrambling.
CONCORD punishes aggressive actions in HS and Scrambling is an aggressive action. Whether you escape or not is irrelevant. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1162
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 05:53:00 -
[4165] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:IIshira wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:I'm just not seeing it guys, and it really is a question for CCP. Oh it's clear you're not seeing it. CCP already said what they had to say on this matter. You're just not happy with what that was so you want something different. Not going to happen so sorry CCP never answered this question...and they are constantly analyzing the situation to investigate altering game mechanics. I am confident that CODE's campaign of destruction will draw a response from CCP, especially in regards to disincentivizing the ganking of empty freighters.
Yes keep waiting for CCP to save highsec from PVP... I wish you luck with that.
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of Eden
17
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 05:55:00 -
[4166] - Quote
Well, settled them, competent bumpers can push you away from celestials, rendering it impossible for you to warp out on your own. Next topic.... |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24359
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 05:55:00 -
[4167] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Why should a single pilot be able to escape the efforts of three pilots specifically fit and flown to warp scramble him? He can't.
Quote:EXACTLY. If the bumpers are competent, and bump you away from celestials, like I assume they do in Uedama, you are SOL. No. It's still possible to escape. If the bumpers are competent and co-ordinated, it just takes a bit more effort and co-oridnation.
Quote:Well, settled them, competent bumpers can push you away from celestials, rendering it impossible for you to warp out on your own. Too bad that it's not actually true and that your confirmation bias will not be satisfied. You are still as wrong as you ever were, which is a pity because you were getting so close to finally understanding it. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
9469
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 05:59:00 -
[4168] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Well, settled them, competent bumpers can push you away from celestials, rendering it impossible for you to warp out on your own. Next topic....
False.
And you should not be on your own while flying a billion isk+ killmail with no guns.
CCP themselves have said that. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of Eden
17
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 06:02:00 -
[4169] - Quote
Well to me this is settled. And to tie this back to the OP (always important!), the combination of CODE killing empty freighters, and using bumping to give it multiple shots at better tanked ones, is a broken mechanic, and out of line with the risk/reward of highsec. I would suggest adopting my bumping change, figuring out how to punish people with -10 sec status, and incentivizing gankers to target ships with lots of loot (perhaps more loot should drop from a ship where cargo value >> hull value + mod value). |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24359
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 06:05:00 -
[4170] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Well to me this is settled. So you've chosen to continue lying, is that it? The facts haven't changed. You have just decided to pick an answer that aligns with your incorrect and ignorant view of how things works because you don't want to accept the simple fact that you were wrong about everything.
Quote:And to tie this back to the OP (always important!), the combination of CODE killing empty freighters, and using bumping to give it multiple shots at better tanked ones, is a broken mechanic What's broken about it?
Quote:I would suggest adopting my bumping change, figuring out how to punish people with -10 sec status, and incentivizing gankers to target ships with lots of loot Your bumping change is a bad idea; -10 people are already punished; and gankers are already incentivised to go after targets with lots of loot. So your suggestion is useless.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
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