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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 25 post(s) |
Thomas Mayaki
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2014.06.26 21:24:00 -
[1681] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Thomas Mayaki wrote:It would seem that the gankers are either too lazy or slow to keep up with the miners replacing their ships. Don't you know ccp introduced the 15-min gcc to account for avg miner reshipping time? Some of them don't even know you can instantly fit a saved fitting.
So CCP is to blame for gankers being lazy. As for the gankers not knowing about the saved fitting function I suppose that is what you get when you have to rely on people providing you with freebie fitted ships.
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Thomas Mayaki
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2014.06.26 21:29:00 -
[1682] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Thomas Mayaki wrote:Fitting a tank costs yield. It would seem that the gankers are either too lazy or slow to keep up with the miners replacing their ships. In my experience of gankers is that they are too lazy. They spend the majority of their time sitting in stations waffling on how they are going to get you but never do.
Eg of New order waffle
You have been added as contact From: DJentropy Ovaert Sent: 2014.05.03 09:59
DJentropy Ovaert has added you as contact with Terrible Standing
*Red Pen Violation - Gank on sight, 3x permit cost*
If miners were prepared to accept ship losses as a cost of doing business they wouldn't expend so much effort in whining about suicide ganking. You say that fitting a tank costs yield, in that you are correct, that said my 20M isk Procurer paid for itself in a couple of hours, 3 years later I still have it. In terms of actual ISK/hr I would say that my Procurer is actually better than a Mackinaw, because of a lower initial cost, no ship replacement costs etc. I get to spend my ISK on nice things like pirate BS's and T3's, instead of replacing max yield mining ships.
3yrs ago you would not have wanted to fly a procurer and they wouldn't have cost 20million isk. Procurers were bad, the hulk was king 3yrs ago. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3503
|
Posted - 2014.06.26 21:29:00 -
[1683] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Thomas Mayaki wrote:It would seem that the gankers are either too lazy or slow to keep up with the miners replacing their ships. Don't you know ccp introduced the 15-min gcc to account for avg miner reshipping time? Some of them don't even know you can instantly fit a saved fitting. apart from the lasers, upgrades and scanner, miners don't fit their ships |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
19356
|
Posted - 2014.06.26 21:44:00 -
[1684] - Quote
Thomas Mayaki wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Thomas Mayaki wrote:Fitting a tank costs yield. It would seem that the gankers are either too lazy or slow to keep up with the miners replacing their ships. In my experience of gankers is that they are too lazy. They spend the majority of their time sitting in stations waffling on how they are going to get you but never do.
Eg of New order waffle
You have been added as contact From: DJentropy Ovaert Sent: 2014.05.03 09:59
DJentropy Ovaert has added you as contact with Terrible Standing
*Red Pen Violation - Gank on sight, 3x permit cost*
If miners were prepared to accept ship losses as a cost of doing business they wouldn't expend so much effort in whining about suicide ganking. You say that fitting a tank costs yield, in that you are correct, that said my 20M isk Procurer paid for itself in a couple of hours, 3 years later I still have it. In terms of actual ISK/hr I would say that my Procurer is actually better than a Mackinaw, because of a lower initial cost, no ship replacement costs etc. I get to spend my ISK on nice things like pirate BS's and T3's, instead of replacing max yield mining ships. 3yrs ago you would not have wanted to fly a procurer and they wouldn't have cost 20million isk. Procurers were bad, the hulk was king 3yrs ago. 3 years ago I was living in a WH, the Hulk may have been king in highsec, in a wormhole it was, and still is a KM waiting to happen, the 20M isk price is based on what they cost last time I looked at them on the market. Different environment, different risks, besides Orca Support from corpies and Jetcans were my friend when I could barely fly a Procurer let alone a Hulk.
Got any further holes to pick or comments to make?
Nil mortifi sine lucre |
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
210
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Posted - 2014.06.26 21:54:00 -
[1685] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Winchester Steele wrote:How is it that my hauler has flown freighters endlessly back and forth across high-sec for years and NEVER once been ganked? I think this really honestly comes down to PEBCAK* in a vast majority of these ganks. It's really far too easy to avoid these sorts of engagements currently, and if you cannot or will not, well then that is your problem.
* Problem Exists Between Chair And Keyboard. I'd buy that were it not for incidents like Aufey or burn Jita. Those special occasions where typical common sense and the things that keep you off the killboard 99 times out of 100 just don't work out because someone wants to make your day just a bit more special. Of course others may just consider that to be the complacency of highsec, and that every freighter should always travel with a full complement of scout, webbers, ECM and other countergank support (Yea hyperbole!), but until the level of activity in those incidents becomes the norm, or even just slightly more common/widespread can you blame them? And aside from paying the extortion fee, do you think your normal prep would have gotten you through Aufay?
I think a better question would be... If a capsuleer is aware of places like Aufay and incidents like Burn Jita, yet they still choose to go there; what room is there for complaint after the fact when prior knowledge of adverse conditions wasn't enough to calculate a different route?
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=331004 - thank me later |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
7509
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Posted - 2014.06.26 21:57:00 -
[1686] - Quote
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote: I think a better question would be... If a capsuleer is aware of places like Aufay and incidents like Burn Jita, yet they still choose to go there; what room is there for complaint after the fact when prior knowledge of adverse conditions wasn't enough to calculate a different route?
Culture of victimhood.
Crying about it makes it someone else's fault, which means that the "victim" does not have to countenance any self inadequacies or confront a sense of loss so long as they can salve their feelings using the theoretical complicity of anyone else. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
212
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Posted - 2014.06.26 22:10:00 -
[1687] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote: I think a better question would be... If a capsuleer is aware of places like Aufay and incidents like Burn Jita, yet they still choose to go there; what room is there for complaint after the fact when prior knowledge of adverse conditions wasn't enough to calculate a different route?
Culture of victimhood. Crying about it makes it someone else's fault, which means that the "victim" does not have to countenance any self inadequacies or confront a sense of loss so long as they can salve their feelings using the theoretical complicity of anyone else.
Gee, what crowd does this sound like? ... People who become mired down in feeling victimized tend to view events in their lives as happening to them and feel ineffective and overwhelmed. They also operate on the basic assumption that the world should be fair, which is a childGÇÖs way of thinking. They tend to project the circumstances of their early childhood, where they were indeed helpless, onto present-day situations and relationships, and fail to recognize that, as adults, they have far more power than they had as children.
STAHHHHHP. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=331004 - thank me later |
Aalysia Valkeiper
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
42
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Posted - 2014.06.26 23:32:00 -
[1688] - Quote
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote: Sorry, I really don't want to buy you a skiff. Can you please not beg on these forums?
I can buy it myself. I didn't because I don't want it... yet.
I've only flown retreivers and macks up to now because my mining system (prior to Kronos) worked well with them. At this time, I have Ventures, retrievers, Mackinaws, and Orcas waiting in all four empires for that character.
Looks like I may have to test the other exhumers and barges to see if they are as good, now.
BTW. I knew the Venture could use weapons. the example earlier was for the venture simply because I could slap it together quickly as I was typing. Combat rigs to arm barges and exhumers would take much more thought, but the venture was a decent example of the process.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
6917
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Posted - 2014.06.27 02:22:00 -
[1689] - Quote
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Winchester Steele wrote:How is it that my hauler has flown freighters endlessly back and forth across high-sec for years and NEVER once been ganked? I think this really honestly comes down to PEBCAK* in a vast majority of these ganks. It's really far too easy to avoid these sorts of engagements currently, and if you cannot or will not, well then that is your problem.
* Problem Exists Between Chair And Keyboard. I'd buy that were it not for incidents like Aufey or burn Jita. Those special occasions where typical common sense and the things that keep you off the killboard 99 times out of 100 just don't work out because someone wants to make your day just a bit more special. Of course others may just consider that to be the complacency of highsec, and that every freighter should always travel with a full complement of scout, webbers, ECM and other countergank support (Yea hyperbole!), but until the level of activity in those incidents becomes the norm, or even just slightly more common/widespread can you blame them? And aside from paying the extortion fee, do you think your normal prep would have gotten you through Aufay? I think a better question would be... If a capsuleer is aware of places like Aufay and incidents like Burn Jita, yet they still choose to go there; what room is there for complaint after the fact when prior knowledge of adverse conditions wasn't enough to calculate a different route?
Why was this thought of yours (ie, if Jita and Aufay are problems, avoid Jita and Aufay) so easy for you and so bloody impossible for others to grasp lol? I've been flying a Mach (fit to survive) in Osmon for a long time and have used it in Lanngisi and Apanake and haven't been ganked or even faced an attempt. Yet others were getting popped all the time because of their own stupidity, and comlplaining about it loudly in local and on forums.
When the ganker alts scan my mission mach, they find a fit not quite worth ganking, a Damage Control, ECM drones, a micro jump drive, and a neut. I surmise that more than one ganker has scanned my fit and said "ah, **** that" lol. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
3175
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Posted - 2014.06.27 03:32:00 -
[1690] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Some men just want to watch the world burn.
There's space for us all in New Eden.
Some just want to watch it burn - others have the initiative to set it on fire themselves. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=346564 - a proposal to overhaul the Logistics skill https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. www.minerbumping.com - ganking miners and causing chaos |
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Solace Project
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
455
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Posted - 2014.06.27 05:02:00 -
[1691] - Quote
This thread just surpassed his 1000th, seemingly legitimate, post.
Congratulations! :D |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
1985
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Posted - 2014.06.27 06:19:00 -
[1692] - Quote
Solace Project wrote:This thread just surpassed his 1000th, seemingly legitimate, post. But do we have an answer to the thread title yet?
On to the next 1000.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
. -á<- Argue this, not this ->-á( -í-¦ -£-û -í-¦) |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
5852
|
Posted - 2014.06.27 06:20:00 -
[1693] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Solace Project wrote:This thread just surpassed his 1000th, seemingly legitimate, post. But do we have an answer to the thread title yet?
Yes: No. "Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
1595
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Posted - 2014.06.27 07:05:00 -
[1694] - Quote
Noragli wrote:When a character who has aggressed concord undocks or boards a ship, his ship is barred from warping. If concord can do that, then there is no reason the same can't be applied to an outlaw who undocks or boards a ship in high security space. He should be barred from warping or activating weapons. CONCORD doesn't care if you're an outlaw. They maintain a strict but very simple order. Nobody violates it because everyone receives the correct response to their actions. The system never fails. There is nothing for CONCORD to resent about anyone. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) "What if [climate change is] a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?" -comic on Greenmonk |
Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
1934
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Posted - 2014.06.27 09:06:00 -
[1695] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Noragli wrote:When a character who has aggressed concord undocks or boards a ship, his ship is barred from warping. If concord can do that, then there is no reason the same can't be applied to an outlaw who undocks or boards a ship in high security space. He should be barred from warping or activating weapons. CONCORD doesn't care if you're an outlaw. They maintain a strict but very simple order. Nobody violates it because everyone receives the correct response to their actions. The system never fails. There is nothing for CONCORD to resent about anyone.
And for you lore nerds, here's some LOLlore reasons for faction/concord behaviour towards outlaws.
Podders are amazingly useful to the empires. Even when you commit mass atrocity against a faction, they STILL leave you an "out" to get back in good graces (faction repair plans). We're a deniable resource for the empires to use to deal with dirty issues. "Damn those pod pilots who just happened to destroy that opposing faction's listening post in our territory!" No smart government would want to cut itself totally off from a resource like that.
Second point, for the most part, the empires really don't care about the "industrial" pilots. The vast, vast majority of industrial work is for other pod pilots. It doesn't benefit the empires all that much, when Miner X strips out an asteroid belt, refines it, and sells it to manufacturer Y to turn into ships to sell to Podder Z. Sure, they get some piddling taxes out of the deal, but overall, not much benefit. Why should the factions devote more than a token resource chasing outlaws in that case? They risk pissing off people who can help them with the above noted "issues", all for a group of people who really aren't contributing to the faction's well-being.
CONCORD really doesn't want to mess with us overmuch either re:lore, because they don't want to risk getting smashed. Concord DID get taken out for quite a while by a NON capsuleer fleet...imagine what a fleet of pissed off podders would do! This thread officially has 25% more pssssssshhh than leading competitors. The chupacabra does not deliver presents on Cinco De Mayo. President Obama does not want to take away T-shirt guns. Most women have only two breasts. The Memphis Grizzlies are not a gay blues band. |
Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
18
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Posted - 2014.06.27 09:26:00 -
[1696] - Quote
8 years ago when I first ventured into this game - there was one of these threads. Adapt or Die.
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DJentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite CODE.
596
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Posted - 2014.06.27 14:41:00 -
[1697] - Quote
Thomas Mayaki wrote:
Fitting a tank costs yield. It would seem that the gankers are either too lazy or slow to keep up with the miners replacing their ships. In my experience of gankers is that they are too lazy. They spend the majority of their time sitting in stations waffling on how they are going to get you but never do.
Eg of New order waffle
You have been added as contact From: DJentropy Ovaert Sent: 2014.05.03 09:59
DJentropy Ovaert has added you as contact with Terrible Standing
*Red Pen Violation - Gank on sight, 3x permit cost*
LOL!
You know why you were added to my Red Pen list - and perhaps at some point I will decided to engage you in some PVP, perhaps I will not. As a general rule of thumb, I don't allow my targets to have input on when or how I conduct operations - and I am sure you understand why :-)
If you really think that during times that I am sitting in a station is due to some serious strategic planning or intense problems with finding a target and making it work - you are really overthinking things :) Chances are I am either chatting with people, answering a metric ton of evemail, waiting out a GCC, or just enjoying some classic ship spinning and shiptoasting :) You seem to think that you are something unique that stands out enough to deserve more attention then the group I have you placed in - miners who, for some reason, must pay me 30million for a permit and who, if I am presented with two targets that I am able to destroy at that moment, I will probably decide to shoot first.
A primary mistake of many EVE players is to assume that simply due to being a target of a specific player, that every single action that player takes somehow has something to do with them. I assure you, it does not. I can also assure you that I have plenty of people who, for various reasons, I would prefer to shoot more then I would prefer to shoot an unknown player - but do I spend time hunting them down or moving an entire operation many jumps to find them? No. I use the services of a location agent on average probably once or twice a month :-)
So, in closing - what you phrase as "waffling", perhaps the reality is that you simply don't make enough of an impact for me to change my plans at all. |
Aalysia Valkeiper
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
42
|
Posted - 2014.06.28 06:24:00 -
[1698] - Quote
DJentropy Ovaert wrote:[quote=Thomas Mayaki] A primary mistake of many EVE players is to assume that simply due to being a target of a specific player, that every single action that player takes somehow has something to do with them. I assure you, it does not. I can also assure you that I have plenty of people who, for various reasons, I would prefer to shoot more then I would prefer to shoot an unknown player - but do I spend time hunting them down or moving an entire operation many jumps to find them? No. I use the services of a location agent on average probably once or twice a month :-)
So, in closing - what you phrase as "waffling", perhaps the reality is that you simply don't make enough of an impact for me to change my plans at all.
This is the primary reason I don't worry about gankers even though I rig a Retriever or Machinaw for maximum vield and consider defense AFTER that.
The best defense against Ganking is being where the ganker isn't. Watch for the ganker as you mine and you cut loses much more than any fit can. Occasionally, a ganker is sneaky enough to get on me before I know he's coming, but a simple move after that and I am again making isk. I will soon make up whatever the ship I lost cost.
I have lost 3 Ventures, 9 Retrievers, and 4 Mackinaws to gankers in just over a year, but I have also made enough isk (just mining in high sec) to buy more than 100 ships up to and including orcas and battleships and STILL have 4 billion isk left over.
Other players have more ships and more ships, but they likely have played longer, spent most of that time in low or null space, and most likely play exclusively in a supportive corps. I didn't have the choice of finding a good corps (kept getting abused by the ones I joined) .
MY reality is I enjoy the game MOST as a solo miner in high sec . I get abused and shafted each time I try different. I am satisfied with what I have achieved on my own. I will be pushing to do more... dispite gankers and others who think PvP should reign alone in EvE. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
12157
|
Posted - 2014.06.28 07:14:00 -
[1699] - Quote
Aalysia Valkeiper wrote:. dispite gankers and others who think PvP should reign alone in EvE.
We don't think this. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Solecist Project
Deeper Feelings Inc.
2495
|
Posted - 2014.06.28 07:15:00 -
[1700] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Aalysia Valkeiper wrote:. dispite gankers and others who think PvP should reign alone in EvE. We don't think this. True. It's already a fact anyway. The case of the bottomless dress. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=349499
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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
3177
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Posted - 2014.06.28 07:35:00 -
[1701] - Quote
is this thread STILL going on.
Love the double-standard, ISD. Something about "constructive posting" and "redundant posting"?
Or does that only apply when a non-griefer posts? Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
admiral root
Red Galaxy
1342
|
Posted - 2014.06.28 08:23:00 -
[1702] - Quote
Aalysia Valkeiper wrote: dispite gankers and others who think PvP should reign alone in EvE.
I can't think of any activity in Eve that isn't PvP. You might want to say ship spinning isn't, but I assure you I can get pretty competitive about it. No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff |
Mag's
the united
17611
|
Posted - 2014.06.28 09:22:00 -
[1703] - Quote
admiral root wrote:Aalysia Valkeiper wrote: dispite gankers and others who think PvP should reign alone in EvE. I can't think of any activity in Eve that isn't PvP. You might want to say ship spinning isn't, but I assure you I can get pretty competitive about it. Well when then introduced the ship spinning counter, it did become PvP. We even had a few threads on it with claims of who got the highest count.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
19395
|
Posted - 2014.06.28 11:02:00 -
[1704] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:is this thread STILL going on.
Love the double-standard, ISD. Something about "constructive posting" and "redundant posting"?
Or does that only apply when a non-griefer posts? It's a Hydra thread, they close one and another 2 appear in its place.
Keeping one main thread open is probably a lot easier on both the ISD team and CCP than trying to moderate several redundant threads about exactly the same thing.
Nil mortifi sine lucre |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3506
|
Posted - 2014.06.28 11:15:00 -
[1705] - Quote
i've always thought of the various npc alt corp posters as the hydra
gankers are just basement dwellers, it's not real pvp, they can't hack in in lowsec, they hate pveers because they don't make isk themselves, miners help the economy, who builds your ships, they're forcing me to pvp, i don't mind ganking really but it needs a nerf, just one more nerf, idea: seige mod for barges, ~james 314 or whatever his name is i totally don't remember~, you're all immature, getting a kick out of shooting defenceless ships, you're cowards, defending myself isn't a viable option, why should i have to change my playstyle to accomodate gankers, how can a two million ship kill a hundred million isk ship, stop trying to force me out of highsec |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22661
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Posted - 2014.06.28 11:48:00 -
[1706] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:is this thread STILL going on.
Love the double-standard, ISD. Something about "constructive posting" and "redundant posting"?
Or does that only apply when a non-griefer posts? What double standard? It's a reasonably constructive thread; it makes other threads on the topic redundant since this one covers everything already; and it is the only thread needed at the moment.
And yes, incorrectly crying about GÇ£griefingGÇ¥ in relation to activities that very clearly don't count as griefing is indeed a good way to get your thread locked, which is why the OP stays away from that particular trap. He's just critiquing the (assumed) commonness of ganking, and suggesting an idea to fix this (as it turns out incorrectly) assumed problem. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5396
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Posted - 2014.06.28 12:04:00 -
[1707] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:is this thread STILL going on.
Love the double-standard, ISD. Something about "constructive posting" and "redundant posting"?
Or does that only apply when a non-griefer posts?
Mmmmm, yummy Dinsdale Tears! This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal & proud member of the popular gay hookup site, somethingawful.com |
ian papabear
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
213
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Posted - 2014.06.28 21:22:00 -
[1708] - Quote
you snooze , you lose . |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3507
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Posted - 2014.06.28 22:15:00 -
[1709] - Quote
you doze, you're hosed |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3507
|
Posted - 2014.06.28 22:16:00 -
[1710] - Quote
you nap, you're trapped |
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