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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 25 post(s) |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5592
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 23:35:00 -
[2761] - Quote
Organic Lager wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Organic Lager wrote:Now care to answer why ganking in 2014 is up 50% over 2013? It's not, we just use 50% more ships to do it. I'm not sure how this concept could be made any easier for you to understand. Thanks for the real answer, as I see Jonah still wants to play the pigeon. Now correct me if I'm wrong but didn't that nerf bat hit you in 2012 with the insurance payout nerf?
It was a combination of things over the last 3 years. It forced us to use a larger quantity of cheaper ships to do the same things. As a result, a lot of the casual gankers just stopped ganking.
E: The level of organisation that goes in to career ganking these days is rather impressive. If it were as easy as our victims claim, then casual gankers wouldn't have died off. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal & proud member of the popular gay hookup site, somethingawful.com |
Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
45
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 23:47:00 -
[2762] - Quote
Organic Lager wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Organic Lager wrote:Now care to answer why ganking in 2014 is up 50% over 2013? It's not, we just use 50% more ships to do it. I'm not sure how this concept could be made any easier for you to understand. Thanks for the real answer, as I see Jonah still wants to play the pigeon. Now correct me if I'm wrong but didn't that nerf bat hit you in 2012 with the insurance payout nerf?
I've only been following this thread for the last 15 pages so forgive me if this is out of context: The insurance payout removal was not an actual nerf to ganking, it did nothing to the mechanics behind ganking, it simply moved the isk won vs isk lost equilibrium.
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Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5592
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 23:51:00 -
[2763] - Quote
Cancel Align NOW wrote:Organic Lager wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Organic Lager wrote:Now care to answer why ganking in 2014 is up 50% over 2013? It's not, we just use 50% more ships to do it. I'm not sure how this concept could be made any easier for you to understand. Thanks for the real answer, as I see Jonah still wants to play the pigeon. Now correct me if I'm wrong but didn't that nerf bat hit you in 2012 with the insurance payout nerf? I've only been following this thread for the last 15 pages so forgive me if this is out of context: The insurance payout removal was not an actual nerf to ganking, it did nothing to the mechanics behind ganking, it simply moved the isk won vs isk lost equilibrium.
It made ganking cost more, which was a nerf. I'm not saying it wasn't a needed nerf. Getting the cost of your suicide ship back was a stupid mechanic & needed to go, but it was still one of many ganking nerfs over the years, while miners have seen only buffs to their gameplay & still want more nerfs on gankers. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal & proud member of the popular gay hookup site, somethingawful.com |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
7929
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 23:55:00 -
[2764] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:
It made ganking cost more, which was a nerf. I'm not saying it wasn't a needed nerf. Getting the cost of your suicide ship back was a stupid mechanic & needed to go, but it was still one of many ganking nerfs over the years, while miners have seen only buffs to their gameplay & still want more nerfs on gankers.
Yep, that's the problem I have with them too. It's never enough, and their agenda is clear. They will never stop until PvP is not permitted.
Their attitude is so poisonous that they honestly think non consensual PvP is, or should be, a bannable offense. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
19641
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 00:18:00 -
[2765] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:I could give you the exact reason why you're seeing a lot of freighters dying in the last 2 months aswell, but you're not going to like the answer. Oh, come on, don't be a tease. This tbh i'd be on the edge of my seat if my immense girth allowed me to move so far Is your neckbeard itching?
Nil mortifi sine lucre |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3607
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 00:22:00 -
[2766] - Quote
the lice within are twitching with anticipation |
Gavin Dax
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
58
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 00:30:00 -
[2767] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:
It made ganking cost more, which was a nerf. I'm not saying it wasn't a needed nerf. Getting the cost of your suicide ship back was a stupid mechanic & needed to go, but it was still one of many ganking nerfs over the years, while miners have seen only buffs to their gameplay & still want more nerfs on gankers.
Yep, that's the problem I have with them too. It's never enough, and their agenda is clear. They will never stop until PvP is not permitted. Their attitude is so poisonous that they honestly think non consensual PvP is, or should be, a bannable offense.
This is a pretty big generalization. I'm pretty sure there's a large group of players, myself included, that would just like to see HS PvP be more engaging. That means fun fights, good conflict with response from both sides, etc.
HS is after all where newbies start, yet it's pretty much the most boring place in EVE with the least engaging content. Just look at the massive tears that are generated with basically no in-game response. As the place in New Eden with the most engagement rules, there is absolutely no reason why it needs to be this way (just make those rules engaging and the players will create the content naturally). |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5596
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 00:39:00 -
[2768] - Quote
Gavin Dax wrote:This is a pretty big generalization. I'm pretty sure there's a large group of players, myself included, that would just like to see HS PvP be more engaging. That means fun fights, good conflict with response from both sides, etc.
HS is after all where newbies start, yet it's pretty much the most boring place in EVE with the least engaging content. Just look at the massive tears that are generated with basically no in-game response. As the place in New Eden with the most engagement rules, there is absolutely no reason why it needs to be this way (just make those rules engaging and the players will create the content naturally).
We all have the same toolset available to us. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal & proud member of the popular gay hookup site, somethingawful.com |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
968
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 00:43:00 -
[2769] - Quote
Gavin Dax wrote:
This is a pretty big generalization. I'm pretty sure there's a large group of players, myself included, that would just like to see HS PvP be more engaging. That means fun fights, good conflict with response from both sides, etc.
HS is after all where newbies start, yet it's pretty much the most boring place in EVE with the least engaging content. Just look at the massive tears that are generated with basically no in-game response. As the place in New Eden with the most engagement rules, there is absolutely no reason why it needs to be this way (just make those rules engaging and the players will create the content naturally).
In EVE the key force multiplier is not ISK or SP it is numbers (with some contribution from player experience).
This puts genuine new players at a disadvantage unless they join a very large newbie friendly corp like RvB, EVE uni or BNI . Small corps of just new players are targets for extortion wardecs and even dueling tends to be writhe with problems with newbie baiting and neut repping making a "win" for the new player unlikely.
Giving new players more SP/free skills or handing them ISK or ships cannot fix this.
Unfortunately any solutions that come to mind (such as Arenas or stacking penalties for mass weapon attacks) are very much a case of "cure worse than the disease".
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
7933
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 00:45:00 -
[2770] - Quote
Gavin Dax wrote: This is a pretty big generalization. I'm pretty sure there's a large group of players, myself included, that would just like to see HS PvP be more engaging. That means fun fights, good conflict with response from both sides, etc.
Surely you recognize that there are people, and plenty of them have been in lockstep agreement with you, that think otherwise? The people who tell you things like "if you want PvP then go to lowsec instead". They are literally saying that PvP should not happen in highsec.
If that doesn't apply to you, then I wasn't talking about you.
Quote: HS is after all where newbies start, yet it's pretty much the most boring place in EVE with the least engaging content.
Of course, just look at the majority of the people who live there. Far too many of them just want to see the green numbers get bigger like some kind of Facebook game. Those people aren't contributing anything, they're more like destructible terrain than real players.
The only content you can get out of them is blowing them up. So it shouldn't be surprising that the people who don't believe that anyone should be immune don't do anything with these people except blow them up.
Quote: Just look at the massive tears that are generated with basically no in-game response. As the place in New Eden with the most engagement rules, there is absolutely no reason why it needs to be this way (just make those rules engaging and the players will create the content naturally).
Why does it have to be *not* this way? I mean, the "in game response" you're talking about is pretty much on them to actually do it.
We get away with things because the "victims" won't get off their butts to stop us. Yet they mistake the consequences of their own inaction with a game imbalance, which is why they keep crying to get us nerfed. Whether that's purposeful or out of ignorance is another matter entirely.
But the end goal? There can be no question that the end goal is no non consensual PvP in highsec. They truly believe that unwillingness to defend themselves should merit total safety. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
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Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5597
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 00:53:00 -
[2771] - Quote
Kronos freighter changes. Be careful what you wish for. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal & proud member of the popular gay hookup site, somethingawful.com |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5597
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 00:55:00 -
[2772] - Quote
Remember when Gevlon gave up on his Grr project because he was just wasting money & not really achieving anything? Some of you may recall a post about how he was going to give that money to CODE each month. All of a sudden GSF people started ganking with CODE every day.
Thanks for the free stuff Gevlon. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal & proud member of the popular gay hookup site, somethingawful.com |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
971
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 00:56:00 -
[2773] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Kronos freighter changes. Be careful what you wish for.
lol ... some people will be wishing for covops freighters with jump capability.
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3609
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 00:58:00 -
[2774] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Remember when Gevlon gave up on his Grr project because he was just wasting money & not really achieving anything? no. he's still wasting money and not achieving anything |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
6309
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 01:00:00 -
[2775] - Quote
Gavin Dax wrote: fun fights, good conflict with response from both sides, etc.
Glorious, symmetrical warfare died with the birth of the machinegun and the aeroplane
I would have thought RAZOR of all people would have known that better than nearly anyone else "Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
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Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5602
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 01:02:00 -
[2776] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Remember when Gevlon gave up on his Grr project because he was just wasting money & not really achieving anything? no. he's still wasting money and not achieving anything
That's not a project, that is literally giving someone free stuff. The real winners here are Goonswarm & Tora Bushido. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal & proud member of the popular gay hookup site, somethingawful.com |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5602
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 01:05:00 -
[2777] - Quote
Congratulations highsec, your incessant begging to CCP literally made it more viable to just kill every freighter we see. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal & proud member of the popular gay hookup site, somethingawful.com |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3609
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 01:06:00 -
[2778] - Quote
eh. he considers it part of his grr project, because otherwise the project would've failed, and nothing gevlon does fails
goonswarm are not the winners, he said so himself. you should read his blog more, so you learn things |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5602
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 01:11:00 -
[2779] - Quote
I read his blog like once a fortnight now, through a mirror site so he doesn't get money for hits. I just don't have to patience to sloth through massive ammounts of delusional garbage anymore though so I kind of just skim over it. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal & proud member of the popular gay hookup site, somethingawful.com |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3609
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 01:53:00 -
[2780] - Quote
i can't fault you for that. how's this mirror thing done? |
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Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5602
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 02:05:00 -
[2781] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:i can't fault you for that. how's this mirror thing done?
Internet coding magic This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal & proud member of the popular gay hookup site, somethingawful.com |
Gavin Dax
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
58
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 02:19:00 -
[2782] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote: We all have the same toolset available to us.
True. But those tools are better at doing some things than others, and the same tools don't have the same appeal to everyone. E.g. booster alts - we all can get one but it doesn't mean the mechanics around that are good.
Hasikan Miallok wrote: Giving new players more SP/free skills or handing them ISK or ships cannot fix this. Unfortunately any solutions that come to mind (such as Arenas or stacking penalties for mass weapon attacks) are very much a case of "cure worse than the disease".
I agree those are bad, but there are way more possibilities - it's hardly the best it could be right now, that's for sure. Just to describe one idea (note: I'm not saying this is at all the best way or even good, just giving an example, there are probably many more ideas that are far better): - CONCORD reps instead of shoots (players need to do the shooting) - Players can make distress calls, players can listen for distress calls (note: this would mean increasing the time it takes for ships to die in HS, hence concord reps)
Basically: - ice breakers in-game for HS players to form up together (e.g. distress calls) since many share the same goal but are not organized - Encourage a variety of gank fits (you won't necessarily lose your ship either) - This would make it harder to say kill a tanked ship in crowded areas like Jita (which makes sense), but possible to say still alpha a frig in your nado and get away while you're at it
The other major area in HS is war decs (I think we can all agree that they aren't nearly as engaging as they could be). Again, many ways to make this better to encourage actual HS wars instead of station games. Won't go into here though since that's not what this thread is about.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: The people who tell you things like "if you want PvP then go to lowsec instead". They are literally saying that PvP should not happen in highsec.
It's true in that you won't find much engaging PvP in HS *right now*, so you should probably go to low/null if you're looking for a good fight. But yeah, if we're talking about how to make EVE better, then IMO that's the wrong attitude.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Of course, just look at the majority of the people who live there. Far too many of them just want to see the green numbers get bigger like some kind of Facebook game. Those people aren't contributing anything, they're more like destructible terrain than real players.
I don't know if this is true or not. For all we know, many who would be attracted by the concept of HS PvP just stop playing the game, so only the true carebears (and HS indy alts) are left. I find it hard to believe that even those in HS wouldn't have the motivation for PvP given enough provocation.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: We get away with things because the "victims" won't get off their butts to stop us.
That, and the game doesn't do much to make it appealing. Revenge is hard to come by in a lot of aspects of EVE, but I think this is too much the case (this is most true in HS, which seems wrong). The desire for revenge has the potential to create great cycles of game content, but in EVE it's common to shoot once and have the buck stop there. E.g. things like kill rights and bounties seem great in concept, but in practice they're not very effective. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
6310
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 02:32:00 -
[2783] - Quote
Gavin Dax wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote: We get away with things because the "victims" won't get off their butts to stop us.
That, and the game doesn't do much to make it appealing. Revenge is hard to come by in a lot of aspects of EVE, but I think this is too much the case (this is most true in HS, which seems wrong). The desire for revenge has the potential to create great cycles of game content, but in EVE it's common to shoot once and have the buck stop there. E.g. things like kill rights and bounties seem great in concept, but in practice they're not very effective.
I dont think hes talking about revenge (which is never profitable unless luck is involved)
Hes talking about prevention, I believe "Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
7934
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Posted - 2014.07.16 02:34:00 -
[2784] - Quote
Gavin Dax wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote: We get away with things because the "victims" won't get off their butts to stop us.
That, and the game doesn't do much to make it appealing. Revenge is hard to come by in a lot of aspects of EVE, but I think this is too much the case (this is most true in HS, which seems wrong). The desire for revenge has the potential to create great cycles of game content, but in EVE it's common to shoot once and have the buck stop there. E.g. things like kill rights and bounties seem great in concept, but in practice they're not very effective.
The game has absolutely nothing to with why those people don't find it appealing. The tools are there.
They just won't pick them up and use them. They'd rather just howl in local or on the forums, and go back to making the green number get bigger.
It can be done. I know because I have done it to others, and had it done to me. Their only excuse is themselves.
[edit: And as Ramona has mentioned, I am talking about self defense. I apologize if that was not clear. But honestly, if you want it to apply to revenge you can do that too. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Gavin Dax
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
58
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 02:51:00 -
[2785] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: The game has absolutely nothing to with why those people don't find it appealing. The tools are there.
They just won't pick them up and use them. They'd rather just howl in local or on the forums, and go back to making the green number get bigger.
It can be done. I know because I have done it to others, and had it done to me. Their only excuse is themselves.
[edit: And as Ramona has mentioned, I am talking about self defense. I apologize if that was not clear. But honestly, if you want it to apply to revenge you can do that too.
Ok I see, yeah I misread that, makes sense. Players are generally lazy to defend themselves yeah. I don't think the game has absolutely nothing to do with that, though. It's just not worth it to in a lot of cases - or as least they don't think it's worth it to. This is a problem with the game IMO. Same reason why an AFK ishtar ratter in null doesn't defend himself. You still make money even if you get ganked sometimes, and it's far more fun to be AFK than ratting in your ishtar |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5603
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 02:53:00 -
[2786] - Quote
Gavin Dax wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote: We all have the same toolset available to us.
True. But those tools are better at doing some things than others, and the same tools don't have the same appeal to everyone. E.g. booster alts - we all can get one but it doesn't mean the mechanics around that are good.
Pretty sure this thread is about suicide ganking & not 1v1 honour duel space-bushido pvp. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal & proud member of the popular gay hookup site, somethingawful.com |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
7934
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 02:59:00 -
[2787] - Quote
Gavin Dax wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote: The game has absolutely nothing to with why those people don't find it appealing. The tools are there.
They just won't pick them up and use them. They'd rather just howl in local or on the forums, and go back to making the green number get bigger.
It can be done. I know because I have done it to others, and had it done to me. Their only excuse is themselves.
[edit: And as Ramona has mentioned, I am talking about self defense. I apologize if that was not clear. But honestly, if you want it to apply to revenge you can do that too.
Ok I see, yeah I misread that, makes sense. Players are generally lazy to defend themselves yeah. I don't think the game has absolutely nothing to do with that, though. It's just not worth it to in a lot of cases - or as least they don't think it's worth it to. This is a problem with the game IMO. Same reason why an AFK ishtar ratter in null doesn't defend himself. You still make money even if you get ganked sometimes, and it's far more fun to be AFK than ratting in your ishtar
If it truly were as simple as that, you wouldn't think they would get so mad about it.
The fact that they do suggests that they don't view it as a transaction or trade off. It suggests that they think they should get to not die at all.
And I hate that attitude. Not only that, but I take great delight in proving their thoughts untrue. And there you have it. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
12366
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 03:51:00 -
[2788] - Quote
Kal Murmur wrote:baltec1 wrote:There are tens of thousands of trips made every day by freighters, it is entirely relevant because THAT is the ship you are going on about. Not really. If there's only a small number of freighter pilots doing a lot of trips/jumps then that's whats relevant to the number of freighters being popped. Bear in mind that the number of jumps your average courier would need to recoup the cost of a lost freighter is seriously substantial.
Doesnt matter if its just one pilot, its still tens of thousands of trips. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
malcovas Henderson
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
212
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 06:49:00 -
[2789] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:
It made ganking cost more, which was a nerf. I'm not saying it wasn't a needed nerf. Getting the cost of your suicide ship back was a stupid mechanic & needed to go, but it was still one of many ganking nerfs over the years, while miners have seen only buffs to their gameplay & still want more nerfs on gankers.
Yep, that's the problem I have with them too. It's never enough, and their agenda is clear. They will never stop until PvP is not permitted. Their attitude is so poisonous that they honestly think non consensual PvP is, or should be, a bannable offense.
This is IMO the crux of the problem. Non-consensual PvP. Too many play this game with the attitude of "HOW F**KING DARE YOU impose your gameplay upon me". Without a single thought on what EVE or MMO means.
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Christina Project
Deeper Feelings Inc.
306
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 07:50:00 -
[2790] - Quote
malcovas Henderson wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:
It made ganking cost more, which was a nerf. I'm not saying it wasn't a needed nerf. Getting the cost of your suicide ship back was a stupid mechanic & needed to go, but it was still one of many ganking nerfs over the years, while miners have seen only buffs to their gameplay & still want more nerfs on gankers.
Yep, that's the problem I have with them too. It's never enough, and their agenda is clear. They will never stop until PvP is not permitted. Their attitude is so poisonous that they honestly think non consensual PvP is, or should be, a bannable offense. This is IMO the crux of the problem. Non-consensual PvP. Too many play this game with the attitude of "HOW F**KING DARE YOU impose your gameplay upon me". Without a single thought on what EVE or MMO means. Hey there, sweetheart ...
... can I impose my "gameplay" onto you? ;) - When there's a mew, there's a way! - |
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