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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 25 post(s) |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
7959
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Posted - 2014.07.16 21:44:00 -
[2821] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Bring it, carebear.
My next awox is dedicated to you, by the way. I cannot stand anti sandbox advocacy, least of all the kind of hypocritical crap you're peddling. Indeed
Lol, I actually got a Mackinaw and three barges in less than half an hour on my previous character, let's see if this next alt can beat that record. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5537
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 21:50:00 -
[2822] - Quote
If there's one thing you can always count on in here, it's:
Baltec = It's all high secs fault Remiel = It's the damn carebears fault Rhes = It's all because of Incarna Kaarous = It's the bloody anti ganker's fault
You don't even need to read their posts after a while. At least they're consistent in their whining so you don't need to ever actually read what they post.
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys Mordus Angels
1913
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 21:51:00 -
[2823] - Quote
Nerf freighter ganking. Free logistics pilots everywhere from the burden of having to fit a tank. |
Gallowmere Rorschach
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
441
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 23:51:00 -
[2824] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Nerf freighter ganking. Free logistics pilots everywhere from the burden of having to fit a tank. You say that as if most of them do so anyway. |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
1105
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Posted - 2014.07.17 00:46:00 -
[2825] - Quote
Gavin Dax wrote:Sibyyl wrote: Not a good analogy. Unlike RL police CONCORD does not prevent crimes. Unlike CONCORD, RL police don't avenge crimes. RL people don't awaken in clones when they die.
TL;DR, hisec was never advertised as the 'burbs.. and you can play RL simulator in RL, not EVE.
Edit: A better analogy would be that hisec is like a town in the Wild West with a sheriff. The sheriff can't be everyone at once, and likely won't stop a crime from occurring if he's not close by. People can shoot you at any time because everyone carries guns.
It's even less secure than that analogy. You can gank in a crowded place like Jita, with everyone watching, and everyone knowing who you are, and then 15 minutes later come right back to the same system and camp the undock now with protection from CONCORD. There are almost no significant long lasting effects of HS crime (sec status you can now buy tags for, and kill rights you can often clear on your own, the ones that really matter anyway).
This is a computer game. It has a setting that makes unmistakably a game, and not a real life simulation. No crime committed in jita has anything like the ramifications of everyday crime in real life, given we have magical respawn. You don't die because someone shot your freighter in jita, so no unlike real life, a "criminal" (which is in reality just a game player, playing the game in a way you don't like) does not need to sit in gaol for the next 25 years.
Quote:
The name "high" security space is misleading - it implies some form of reasonable retribution or punishment for crimes (how else would you enforce high security? This is probably a reasonable assumption to make based on the name, as you would do so anywhere else in RL). It should be renamed to "medium" security space or something else to make this more clear - it would definitely change a bunch of people's expectations to be more in line with the actual mechanics. Your ship is generally only safe in HS if there is no entity present that can alpha you before CONCORD saves you.
In the context of this computer game, highsec has many benefits over lowsec, and lowsec has very important benefits over nullsec, and at no time, has perfectsec ever been presented to the gamer. The last 2 times CCP added space to the game it was nullsec, and nullsec with delayed local, plainly highsec is an aberration, not the natural state of the game, and I am for one perfectly happy with the term highsec, because it is plainly distinct from perfectsec.
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Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
2894
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Posted - 2014.07.17 00:53:00 -
[2826] - Quote
Gavin Dax wrote:Yeah, that's true. My only argument is that if this is the intention (which almost certainly it is) then CCP could make that a lot more clear to players. Right now it's pretty misleading and I can see where the expectations come from. If you call it HS the mechanics seem broken. If you call it medium sec then the mechanics make sense. So this is an interesting point. Should the tutorials incorporate information about how dangerous EVE is, even in hisec? When talking to Aura it all seems very easy going and cool. You learn how to press buttons, but Aura fails to tell you what a big bad world New Eden is.
I can see how from a scammer's point of view, there should not be easy dissemination of information. Avoiding the scams should be a combination of good researching skills and common sense. Players who inform themselves of the pitfalls of Jita Local should alone be spared of its poison. And the argument goes that players who do this kind of research and exhibit common sense are more of the type of player that will stick around EVE and "create content".
From a ganker's point of view a lack of education might be advantageous. A poorly fit ship makes for an easier target. But at the same time, a lot of the information I picked up as a miner comes from posts and chats done by gankers. For some strange reason these guys talk a lot about game mechanics and even how to counter ganks. Obviously there's a lot of "roleplaying" as people call it, invoking the ganker as a boogieman to players who don't shed blood and name their firstborn "James", but I think it's really hard to ignore information these guys put out to their own detriment (in the interest of "more challenging" content).
I think that like a lot of groups, gankers have some bad apples.. guys who are interested only in the easy kill. Of course that's human nature.
But is it fair to say that the information is out there and easy to access? Maybe. Is EVE Online a huge complicated mess? Sure. Does this complexity lend itself to weeding out the "less diligent" player? Probably. Does the confusion and complexity weed out some players who may have been compatible with EVE in the long run.. this is a good question which I'm not sure we have good data for.
.. when everything else is gone .. |
Draconious Aldurald
Rescue Team
0
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Posted - 2014.07.17 01:56:00 -
[2827] - Quote
9:45 PM 7/16/2014 Uedama 0.5 Jita - Dodixie Trade Route
Number of Jumps Per Hour 1083 jumps in the last hour.
Number of Ships Destroyed Per Hour 183 ships destroyed in the last hour.
(1083 / 183) * 100 = 16.900% chance of being ganked.
Food for discussion. |
Lady Areola Fappington
2080
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 02:28:00 -
[2828] - Quote
Draconious Aldurald wrote:
To make this an accurate number, break down and drag out wars, aggression games, and "counterganks" of suicide ships from that figure.
Not every one of those ships destroyed was a freighter, so you've only established the maximum percentage, at 17%. The reality will be a lot lower, I suspect. This thread officially has 25% more pssssssshhh than leading competitors. Rick Moranis was never put on death row for shrinking his children. New York exists outside the mind of Billy Joel. A French press is not lifting weights with your tongue out. Lena Dunham is not a girl ventriloquist. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
7962
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Posted - 2014.07.17 02:35:00 -
[2829] - Quote
Draconious Aldurald wrote:
The number of ships destroyed also includes the gankers destroyed by CONCORD. Your math needs work. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
19644
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 02:59:00 -
[2830] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:The number of ships destroyed also includes the gankers destroyed by CONCORD. Your math needs work. Which will often be 2 ships per pilot per gank, one when they gank, another when they draw Concord away from the gates.
Nil mortifi sine lucre |
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
7962
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Posted - 2014.07.17 03:01:00 -
[2831] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:The number of ships destroyed also includes the gankers destroyed by CONCORD. Your math needs work. Which will often be 2 ships per pilot per gank, one when they gank, another when they draw Concord away from the gates.
So, even if you use the extremely generously low number of only ten gankers per victim, the number becomes something like 0.44% chance of getting ganked.
Napkin math, of course. Thanks to work I have not slept since Monday afternoon. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
1105
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Posted - 2014.07.17 03:44:00 -
[2832] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:The number of ships destroyed also includes the gankers destroyed by CONCORD. Your math needs work. Which will often be 2 ships per pilot per gank, one when they gank, another when they draw Concord away from the gates. So, even if you use the extremely generously low number of only ten gankers per victim, the number becomes something like 0.44% chance of getting ganked. Napkin math, of course. Thanks to work I have not slept since Monday afternoon.
Eve kill uedama front page had 3 freighters and 44 catalysts, brutixes and taloses, as a vague analysis, it's probably in the ballpark, but also in my experience non peak has less ganks per jump too.. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
19645
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Posted - 2014.07.17 03:50:00 -
[2833] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:The number of ships destroyed also includes the gankers destroyed by CONCORD. Your math needs work. Which will often be 2 ships per pilot per gank, one when they gank, another when they draw Concord away from the gates. So, even if you use the extremely generously low number of only ten gankers per victim, the number becomes something like 0.44% chance of getting ganked. Napkin math, of course. Thanks to work I have not slept since Monday afternoon. Eve kill uedama front page had 3 freighters and 44 catalysts, brutixes and taloses, as a vague analysis, it's probably in the ballpark, but also in my experience non peak has less ganks per jump too.. Less traffic in general tbh.
Nil mortifi sine lucre |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1903
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Posted - 2014.07.17 08:42:00 -
[2834] - Quote
I have removed a reply (and the post quoting it) to an edited out part of the quoted post. ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Ra' zutao
The Ascended Fleet Intrepid Crossing
1
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Posted - 2014.07.17 13:24:00 -
[2835] - Quote
I do all my major trading through there on non peak hours the last two weeks I have seen 0 gate campers. Maybe (if possible I know its not the case for everyone) if you're hauling or picking up something valuable or you don't want your nice Freigher popped find a way to do it during non peak hours. its extra work but sometimes its beneficial. |
admiral root
Red Galaxy
1427
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Posted - 2014.07.17 14:36:00 -
[2836] - Quote
Draconious Aldurald wrote:(1083 / 183) * 100 = 16.900% chance of being ganked.
Food for discussion.
I think we should discuss the fact that you don't seem to know what the definition of "ganked" is.
Uedama for the past 24 hours:
Jumps: 27,676 Ships killed: 834 Chance of being asploded: 3.01%
Because I know what "ganked" means I know that this is the chance of dying to wardecs, duels, blue fire, ganks and Concord spanking gankers (both for actual ganks and for pulling).
Anyone know for fact if self-destructing your ship without any external involvement also counts on Dotlan? No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff |
admiral root
Red Galaxy
1427
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 14:42:00 -
[2837] - Quote
Interesting - while Uedama explosions have gone up, Niarja is safer compared to last time I checked these:
Niarja: 27,571 jumps / 30 ship kills / 0.11% Uedama: 27,676 jumps / 834 ship kills / 3.01% Jita: 42,095 jumps / 402 ship kills / 0.95% Total: 97,342 jumps / 1,266 ship kills / 1.31%
Again, numbers are for the past 24 hours. Source: Dotlan.
Edit: It's also worth noting that there's a hell of a lot of rookie ships and destroyers showing on zkillboard for Uedama. What a shocking surprise. :deadpan: No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff |
412nv Yaken
The Conference Elite CODE.
127
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Posted - 2014.07.18 02:24:00 -
[2838] - Quote
Are you really discussing the math of a chance of getting ganked?
If your piloting a freighter whilst a gank fleet is in the system, you are going to be targeted. If you dont, good on you.
The fact is a group of players can actually affect a system, which is what is happening.
The original post was about how it should be allowed. We gank for fun, you should try it sometime. A True Champion of High Security Space |
Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
3186
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 04:16:00 -
[2839] - Quote
ISD Ezwal wrote:I have removed a reply (and the post quoting it) to an edited out part of the quoted post. My kitten picture
But thanks for keeping us on track, Mr. Ezwal. .. when everything else is gone .. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
12391
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Posted - 2014.07.18 06:32:00 -
[2840] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:If there's one thing you can always count on in here, it's: Baltec = It's all high secs fault Remiel = It's the damn carebears fault Rhes = It's all because of Incarna Kaarous = It's the bloody anti ganker's fault At least they're consistent *) so you don't need to ever actually read what they post. Mr Epeen *) *Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.
Mr Epeen = I cant attack the facts so I will attack the person Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
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Kal Murmur
Lazortits
16
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Posted - 2014.07.18 08:22:00 -
[2841] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Mr Epeen = I cant attack the facts so I will attack the person
So now you want to nerf forum ganking? Damn carebears.. |
Trosh Aumer
Codename-47
1
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Posted - 2014.07.18 12:06:00 -
[2842] - Quote
While I agree that suicide ganking is lame, I don't really see this as a way to fix it.. You can buy sec tags to increase your sec status fairly easily.. I've just moved most of my time spent in-game out of High-Sec, and hopefully more players will do the same. In low, null or WH you absolutley KNOW if someone is trying to murder you (everyone is) so it's easier to be aware, as opposed to high-sec, where you just have to avoid 3 people out of a local list of like 150. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
6342
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 12:09:00 -
[2843] - Quote
Draconious Aldurald wrote:
Also dont forget to count for people jumping through a gate, realising their autopilot is set to the wrong system and having to jump back through the gate they just came though.
More common than you might think "Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
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Gallowmere Rorschach
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
464
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Posted - 2014.07.18 12:11:00 -
[2844] - Quote
Trosh Aumer wrote:While I agree that suicide ganking is lame, I don't really see this as a way to fix it.. You can buy sec tags to increase your sec status fairly easily.. I've just moved most of my time spent in-game out of High-Sec, and hopefully more players will do the same. In low, null or WH you absolutley KNOW if someone is trying to murder you (everyone is) so it's easier to be aware, as opposed to high-sec, where you just have to avoid 3 people out of a local list of like 150. This result would be the ideal, if it were global. Unfortunately, most seem to lack your spirit and ability to adapt, and would rather just train Forum Whining to V. |
admiral root
Red Galaxy
1429
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 17:00:00 -
[2845] - Quote
Trosh Aumer wrote:While I agree that suicide ganking is lame, I don't really see this as a way to fix it..
Why does suicide ganking need fixing? What's broken about it? No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff |
Proselytos
The Ascended Fleet Intrepid Crossing
4
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Posted - 2014.07.18 20:18:00 -
[2846] - Quote
Ramming another vessel should cause damage depending on the speed, and count as act of aggression. Arriving and departing from stations and gates could have a invuln timer to enable the pilot to maneuver and stop.
This would add a lot of more fun, realism, and stops certain simple minded exploits which are only possible because of a lack of realism. |
Lady Areola Fappington
2087
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 20:24:00 -
[2847] - Quote
Proselytos wrote:Ramming another vessel should cause damage depending on the speed, and count as act of aggression. Arriving and departing from stations and gates could have a invuln timer to enable the pilot to maneuver and stop.
This would add a lot of more fun, realism, and stops certain simple minded exploits which are only possible because of a lack of realism.
I totally agree, and the more realistic the damage, the better. Really put those gankers in their place.
I mean, it's not like there are weapon systems based on flinging small, dense projectiles at high speed towards (comparatively) larger objects, right? This thread officially has 25% more pssssssshhh than leading competitors. Rick Moranis was never put on death row for shrinking his children. New York exists outside the mind of Billy Joel. A French press is not lifting weights with your tongue out. Lena Dunham is not a girl ventriloquist. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
15449
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Posted - 2014.07.18 20:26:00 -
[2848] - Quote
Proselytos wrote: This would add a lot of more fun, realism, and stops certain simple minded exploits which are only possible because of a lack of realism.
Yes, the lack of realism in a fictional fluid universe space submarine game is the problem. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
8017
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Posted - 2014.07.18 21:03:00 -
[2849] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Proselytos wrote: This would add a lot of more fun, realism, and stops certain simple minded exploits which are only possible because of a lack of realism.
Yes, the lack of realism in a fictional fluid universe space submarine game is the problem.
People who cry about "realism" in a video game in which players are immortal because cloning + sci fi magic are a special kind of person. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6231
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Posted - 2014.07.18 21:03:00 -
[2850] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Proselytos wrote: This would add a lot of more fun, realism, and stops certain simple minded exploits which are only possible because of a lack of realism.
Yes, the lack of realism in a fictional fluid universe space submarine game is the problem. People who cry about "realism" in a video game in which players are immortal because cloning + sci fi magic are a special kind of person. Because ganking freighters is apparently "unrealistic" ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
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