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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
7695
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Posted - 2014.07.08 18:30:00 -
[61] - Quote
Syd Unknown wrote: You are burning down a good idea, yet you fail ro give a good argument why it shouldnt be implemented.
That's because it isn't a good idea. You can't just say it is and that magically stops it from being a self interested suggestion from someone who failed to secure his capital.
Quote: Please enlighten me and tell me what you can do to avoid PL hotdropping you when they have watchlisted all your super-pilots and you are logging in your Supers to shoot some structures.
This is the kind of risk averse statement that I haven't heard in a while from someone who didn't fly a mining barge.
You are not supposed to be safe unless you work to do so. The OP wants to take pretty much every bit of effort away from himself and foist it onto the other guy. Fortunately CCP, as a general rule, does not listen to that kind of selfish crap. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Zurin Arctus
Trauma Ward
14
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Posted - 2014.07.08 18:43:00 -
[62] - Quote
Posting in a supercap pilot whine thread |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
673
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 19:59:00 -
[63] - Quote
The hilarity here is that the solution is already in place, in reverse.
How about you break their intel on your super fleet by *always* having those characters online, like afk campers do?
It's not like they have to be in their super caps to be online. Stick them in interceptors or shuttles in blank clones and zip them around empire space for a month before jumping back to base, firing up the supers and surprising them with the break in routine? |
Dally Lama
Republic University Minmatar Republic
51
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Posted - 2014.07.08 21:55:00 -
[64] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:The hilarity here is that the solution is already in place, in reverse.
How about you break their intel on your super fleet by *always* having those characters online, like afk campers do?
It's not like they have to be in their super caps to be online. Stick them in interceptors or shuttles in blank clones and zip them around empire space for a month before jumping back to base, firing up the supers and surprising them with the break in routine? My electric bill is already through the roof. Last thing I need is my computer running 23/7, let alone with a game running.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
You are not supposed to be safe unless you work to do so. The OP wants to take pretty much every bit of effort away from himself and foist it onto the other guy. Fortunately CCP, as a general rule, does not listen to that kind of selfish crap.
Yes. When someone wants to find me, the effort is on them to find me. Not on me to stay hidden if I'm already 12 systems away from their nearest scout.
I would argue it is in fact you who wants the hand-holding, because you can't be arsed to get the intel yourself. New Fitting Window | Distances above 10km | Maximums for buy orders |
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
28
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Posted - 2014.07.08 22:00:00 -
[65] - Quote
Dally Lama wrote:Mike Voidstar wrote:The hilarity here is that the solution is already in place, in reverse.
How about you break their intel on your super fleet by *always* having those characters online, like afk campers do?
It's not like they have to be in their super caps to be online. Stick them in interceptors or shuttles in blank clones and zip them around empire space for a month before jumping back to base, firing up the supers and surprising them with the break in routine? My electric bill is already through the roof. Last thing I need is my computer running 23/7, let alone with a game running.
eve will run on almost anything maybe get a cheaper to run pc. |
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
28
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Posted - 2014.07.08 22:03:00 -
[66] - Quote
Dally Lama wrote:
Yes. When someone wants to find me, the effort is on them to find me. Not on me to stay hidden if I'm already 12 systems away from their nearest scout.
I would argue it is in fact you who wants the hand-holding, because you can't be arsed to get the intel yourself.
location agents. will even tell you want station you are docked in for the cost of 1/4 million isk |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
7701
|
Posted - 2014.07.08 22:05:00 -
[67] - Quote
Dally Lama wrote: Yes. When someone wants to find me, the effort is on them to find me. Not on me to stay hidden if I'm already 12 systems away from their nearest scout.
I would argue it is in fact you who wants the hand-holding, because you can't be arsed to get the intel yourself.
When you're asking for the status quo to be changed, you tend to need a better reason than "I want the other guy to have to do all the work instead of me".
The largest ship in the game should not be easy to hide. Yes, you will be watchlisted. Act accordingly. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
GodsWork
Realm of God Triple Penetration Empire
1
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Posted - 2014.07.08 22:28:00 -
[68] - Quote
Madbuster73 wrote:Watchlisting is one of the most used and easy intel assets at the moment. People just have to put you on watchlist and provide free and easy instant intel. There are alliances that have every single Super and Titan-pilot watchlisted and it makes it almost impossible nowadays to log in a SUPER or Titan pilot without the enemy instantly knowing it. This makes boring gameplay and prevents covert CAPITAL operations. This will also generate big-bloc power projection since nobody wants to fly his Super or Titan with smaller Alliances because they know that big blocs like Pandemic Legion have them watchlisted and will hunt them down as soon as they log in. So there is only one choice left and that is to join a big bloc or loose your Super to them because they have you watchlisted.
I propose that people can only watchlist you if you accept it. in other words: If somebody wants to watchlist you, you get a message wich asks you if you agree to have that person watchlist you.
This way people will actually have to do more active scouting and less metagaming in station.
And it will provide more capital action since people will be less scared to log in their capital ships without having the danger of being ganked by big alliances with lots of capital ships that are waiting for you to log in and see you on their watchlist.
Will i Have a UNFRIEND button too??? Good idea. |
Madbuster73
V0LTA Triumvirate.
109
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Posted - 2014.07.09 13:06:00 -
[69] - Quote
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:WOW ! Really ?
You want to tickle me until I rage out so you can report me or what is your issue, good job a trolling. Just because the arguments are not to your liking or you can't be bothered to actually find out what they were you dismiss them as not being arguments in the first palce. Then you mention the same single and specific problem like the OP (surprise, even the wordning is similar) and demand the whole game be redesigned so you won't face that one problem.
Here is another constructive advice that will fix your problem even permanently: Biomass.
Fact is the proposed change would suit only or rather have not much negative effect on the big and organised factions and make all solo and small gang players subject to the whim of bigger bullies. - so again: No.
There are no good arguments given. My argument is that the instant and easy intel that the watchlist gives you for doing NOTHING. If people want to get on Super and Titan kills they should have to WORK for it, and not let the watchlist do the work for them.
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Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
33
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Posted - 2014.07.09 19:00:00 -
[70] - Quote
Madbuster73 wrote:Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:WOW ! Really ?
You want to tickle me until I rage out so you can report me or what is your issue, good job a trolling. Just because the arguments are not to your liking or you can't be bothered to actually find out what they were you dismiss them as not being arguments in the first palce. Then you mention the same single and specific problem like the OP (surprise, even the wordning is similar) and demand the whole game be redesigned so you won't face that one problem.
Here is another constructive advice that will fix your problem even permanently: Biomass.
Fact is the proposed change would suit only or rather have not much negative effect on the big and organised factions and make all solo and small gang players subject to the whim of bigger bullies. - so again: No. There are no good arguments given. My argument is that the instant and easy intel that the watchlist gives you for doing NOTHING. If people want to get on Super and Titan kills they should have to WORK for it, and not let the watchlist do the work for them.
I didn't know watch list added me to kills. Is this just with super's and titans or just in your imagination |
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1770
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 20:08:00 -
[71] - Quote
Its a big deal for hunting other players or avoiding being hunted.
When u log off u literally disappear from the universe and cannot be attacked. If someone runs locates on u and then travels to that system and ur not there, he then flies back to to another locator agent, gets the same result, flies back to the system and he still doesnt know if ur offline or moving.
And its not like he can kill u in ur sleep sandman style like the real world.
Knowing when ur watch list actually exist in the game world and when they don't exist is important. If it was to be removed, it would at least need to be replaced by some other way of detecting whether ur targets exist and are attackable or not. It can be less free, less flawless and less instant sure, just like local. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Fer'isam K'ahn
None Of One
192
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 21:39:00 -
[72] - Quote
Madbuster73 wrote:There are no good arguments given. My argument is that the instant and easy intel that the watchlist gives you for doing NOTHING. If people want to get on Super and Titan kills they should have to WORK for it, and not let the watchlist do the work for them. Just because you don't think so doesn't make it so. Yours is an argument from ignorance, "I don't care about 99,9% of the gameplay and people using the feature besides my sole problem, therefore they have nothing of value to say. And my problem still exists without the change, therefore I am right." And who cares on being an a killmail or supers or titans, give me at least a statistic on that and then one to compare it to the number of people that use the watchlist for anything but this, then you can talk.
And I said it before and I can say it again, the easy intel it is the only protection most grieved, followed and harassed players have to avoid those circumstances and play at all.
You are comparing - a minority issue of an - 'elite' minority that can't be bothered to log in - because can't be bothered doing something else - because can't be bothered to spread false intel - because can't be bothered working against a tag and setting traps - because the feel watched (local /afk cloak discussion anyone?) - because of falcon with the majority - that is constantly followed - unable to undock - bullied - outnumbered - subject to the whims of grievers/gankers/wardeccers/other hunters... - are always handicapped vs opponents superior numbers (not even considering combat) and think your concern is valid because you can't come up with anything else.. oh wait, I did already
Are you sure your issues aren't elsewhere ?! |
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Cult of Mooby
217
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 21:41:00 -
[73] - Quote
So, the complaint here is that Super cap pilots don't get enough content because if they logged in someone would want to create content? I thought every noob learned not to fly what you can't afford to lose. |
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
35
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 21:56:00 -
[74] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:Its a big deal for hunting other players or avoiding being hunted.
When u log off u literally disappear from the universe and cannot be attacked. If someone runs locates on u and then travels to that system and ur not there, he then flies back to to another locator agent, gets the same result, flies back to the system and he still doesnt know if ur offline or moving.
And its not like he can kill u in ur sleep sandman style like the real world.
Knowing when ur watch list actually exist in the game world and when they don't exist is important. If it was to be removed, it would at least need to be replaced by some other way of detecting whether ur targets exist and are attackable or not. It can be less free, less flawless and less instant sure, just like local.
alts. or corpmates. run the locator go to system they not there? run it again with an alt or corpmate bam you know if they are online or not.
or remove the fact that we disappear from the game. just leave our names always in local even when offline. then you can get rid of watch lists
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1770
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 22:29:00 -
[75] - Quote
so u MUST be in two places at once? and there are 500k eve subscribers, the most people online at once is 66k or something. u ready to sift through 20 000 names in jita local?
or u can just have something that indicates when peeps exist or not. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
36
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 00:03:00 -
[76] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:so u MUST be in two places at once? and there are 500k eve subscribers, the most people online at once is 66k or something. u ready to sift through 20 000 names in jita local?
or u can just have something that indicates when peeps exist or not.
makes as much sense as making watch list mutual |
Madbuster73
V0LTA Triumvirate.
109
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 00:50:00 -
[77] - Quote
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:Madbuster73 wrote:There are no good arguments given. My argument is that the instant and easy intel that the watchlist gives you for doing NOTHING. If people want to get on Super and Titan kills they should have to WORK for it, and not let the watchlist do the work for them. Just because you don't think so doesn't make it so. Yours is an argument from ignorance, "I don't care about 99,9% of the gameplay and people using the feature besides my sole problem, therefore they have nothing of value to say. And my problem still exists without the change, therefore I am right." And who cares on being an a killmail or supers or titans, give me at least a statistic on that and then one to compare it to the number of people that use the watchlist for anything but this, then you can talk. And I said it before and I can say it again, the easy intel it is the only protection most grieved, followed and harassed players have to avoid those circumstances and play at all. You are comparing - a minority issue of an - 'elite' minority that can't be bothered to log in - because can't be bothered doing something else - because can't be bothered to spread false intel - because can't be bothered working against a tag and setting traps - because the feel watched (local /afk cloak discussion anyone?) - because of falcon with the majority - that is constantly followed - unable to undock - bullied - outnumbered - subject to the whims of grievers/gankers/wardeccers/other hunters... - are always handicapped vs opponents superior numbers (not even considering combat) and think your concern is valid because you can't come up with anything else.. oh wait, I did already
And yet again you fail to give a decent argument.... I think that indicates the amount of braincells you have (somewhere around 2) and also indicates you are just here to troll other peoples ideas....
Please move along and go troll in some other topic.
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Fer'isam K'ahn
None Of One
192
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 08:55:00 -
[78] - Quote
Yes, if have given none, I have said nothing and I have neither a point to make nor an opinion to offer. Trolling highly gifted and creative people is my life's goal.
Or maybe it isn't me?
Being ignorant of ones own ignorance ... Are you sure your issues aren't elsewhere ?! |
Madbuster73
V0LTA Triumvirate.
110
|
Posted - 2014.07.21 22:55:00 -
[79] - Quote
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:So, the complaint here is that Super cap pilots don't get enough content because if they logged in someone would want to create content? I thought every noob learned not to fly what you can't afford to lose.
That "someone" you are reffering too is PL dropping dozens of Supers on 1 Super, and you call that "creating content" ??? |
Bohneik Itohn
Universal Freelance CONSORTIUM UNIVERSALIS
570
|
Posted - 2014.07.22 13:21:00 -
[80] - Quote
Bored with all of the cap pilot whining going back and forth. Your personal woes are just a small part of the issue. Sit down.
Free intel is still a bad idea. I have hundreds of people on my watch list that aren't too happy with me. With a single glance I can determine that it's safe for me to travel from one side of the universe to the other with impunity. It's pretty silly.
Watch lists are used by high sec war deccers to be some of the laziest ***** in Eve. They'll leave one person or a neutral alt logged in and watching a gate that they like and only call the rest of the corp in to do some PvP when numbers and activity have reached a certain threshold, or tell corpmates to spend their evening playing some other game if there is an actual hunting party out patrolling for them. They might as well be playing Candy Crush on their iPad.
Watch lists are used by carebears to determine if there are enough CODE members online to try and gank them. If there aren't, it's time to go AFK and watch a movie. Checking the list every time you switch roids is often enough to ensure almost complete safety.
Likewise watch list is used by CODE in much the same manner as high sec war deccers use them. To perpetuate laziness and reduce exposure to an absolute minimum.
Ad Infinitum. This list could go on all day.
It's just... FFS people this **** is too easy. It takes a minimum amount of effort to get some of the best intel available in the game, and removes almost all of the threat and uncertainty to managing intel.
This function can be rolled into locator agents with a minimal amount of work, and with a whole lot of sense and legitimate gameplay being put back into the world of Eve. Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!-á - Freyya
Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help. |
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Adrie Atticus
The Shadow Plague The Bastion
174
|
Posted - 2014.07.22 16:25:00 -
[81] - Quote
I just read the OP and had to check if this in response for Tri losing 2 Ragnaroks within 3 days.
Yes it was. |
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
40
|
Posted - 2014.07.22 16:27:00 -
[82] - Quote
Adrie Atticus wrote:I just read the OP and had to check if this in response for Tri losing 2 Ragnaroks within 3 days.
Yes it was.
that is good to know. hope they where stupid deaths. |
Madbuster73
V0LTA Triumvirate.
112
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 23:32:00 -
[83] - Quote
Bohneik Itohn wrote:Bored with all of the cap pilot whining going back and forth. Your personal woes are just a small part of the issue. Sit down.
Free intel is still a bad idea. I have hundreds of people on my watch list that aren't too happy with me. With a single glance I can determine that it's safe for me to travel from one side of the universe to the other with impunity. It's pretty silly.
Watch lists are used by high sec war deccers to be some of the laziest ***** in Eve. They'll leave one person or a neutral alt logged in and watching a gate that they like and only call the rest of the corp in to do some PvP when numbers and activity have reached a certain threshold, or tell corpmates to spend their evening playing some other game if there is an actual hunting party out patrolling for them. They might as well be playing Candy Crush on their iPad.
Watch lists are used by carebears to determine if there are enough CODE members online to try and gank them. If there aren't, it's time to go AFK and watch a movie. Checking the list every time you switch roids is often enough to ensure almost complete safety.
Likewise watch list is used by CODE in much the same manner as high sec war deccers use them. To perpetuate laziness and reduce exposure to an absolute minimum.
Ad Infinitum. This list could go on all day.
It's just... FFS people this **** is too easy. It takes a minimum amount of effort to get some of the best intel available in the game, and removes almost all of the threat and uncertainty to managing intel.
This function can be rolled into locator agents with a minimal amount of work, and with a whole lot of sense and legitimate gameplay being put back into the world of Eve.
^^ this |
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