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Captn' Crunch
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.06.20 21:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
As the topic says, which do you guys think is better? I mainly fly L4s in my Mach. I may be looking into other pve activities with a Marauder, but mostly interested in L4s at the moment. The Kronos and Paladin will take roughly the same time for me to train.
Cheers for the input and help. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1209
|
Posted - 2014.06.20 21:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
If I may ask, why not look at the Vargur? It does well in any space and can be flown in a style closer to the Mach. Between the 2, Paladin if in amarr space. Kronos excels well against Guristas/Serpentis. |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
61
|
Posted - 2014.06.20 21:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
Points against paladin is it has the damage bonus tied to marauders skill which is a x10 skill, the other marauders don't. They have application tied to that skill instead. |
Captn' Crunch
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.06.20 22:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:If I may ask, why not look at the Vargur? It does well in any space and can be flown in a style closer to the Mach. Between the 2, Paladin if in amarr space. Kronos excels well against Guristas/Serpentis.
Thank you for the fast replies. I have nothing against the Vargur. I was just thinking of changing-up what I played for fun. I do not know much about Marauders; if the Vargur is a better choice I will look into it more.
Cheers :) |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1209
|
Posted - 2014.06.20 22:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
Captn' Crunch wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:If I may ask, why not look at the Vargur? It does well in any space and can be flown in a style closer to the Mach. Between the 2, Paladin if in amarr space. Kronos excels well against Guristas/Serpentis. Thank you for the fast replies. I have nothing against the Vargur. I was just thinking of changing-up what I played for fun. I do not know much about Marauders; if the Vargur is a better choice I will look into it more. Cheers :) I wouldn't call it so much "better" as closer possibly to what you may be used to. If that's not a factor for you then I'd say go with what's best for your area of space. Amarr: Paladin, Caldari/Gallente: Kronos, Minmatar: Vargur (though due to damage type selection can perform well in all space). |
Blitz Apollo
Hedion University Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2014.06.21 10:07:00 -
[6] - Quote
Paladin; and never look back.
I love the Marauders as a class and think what they have done with them is brilliant. The Paladin really is the stand out Marauder for me especially in Amarr space.
Instant changing of ammo, huge optimal ranges and a balanced resist profile mean it really is a versatile BS platform. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
2161
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Posted - 2014.06.21 10:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
Confirming the paladin us all kinds of sexual, it has its limits though. iv been eyeing up the kronos lustily this last while, because 30k blasters and .5 tracking. "CAKE CANNOT HOLD UP TO BEING A CHARACTER DAMNIT."
Unsuccessful At Everything |
Scout Vyvorant
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2014.06.21 16:38:00 -
[8] - Quote
I've tested all 3 gunnery based marauders, and I can say they all have their strenght and weakness. Mind, all marauders are similar, and we are talking more of personal tastes of flying, rather than a clear winner.
A paladin also don't use ammos, unless you go faction / T2, which remove the part of restocking your cargo with ammunition and having to build / craft your own. The damage type dealt by this ship is often the worst around, but she makes it up with the best damage projection of all three marauders.
A kronos have enough bandwidth and drone bay to host two sentry guns, and considering the fact marauders have 3 high powered slots to customize at your heart content, you can fit a large or medium remote armour rep to lessen the chance of losing one. The damage type of the hybrid guns and their damage application is quite good, and wont let you down in any situation.
A vargur is the only marauder that can perform well at medium range (55km - 70 km) with short range weapons, in this case the 800mm autocannons. Using the plus 20% tracking ammos you are sure you'll have no problem to hit fast targets or simply rats that manage to get too close, while faction fusion ammo can easly net you 950 - 1k dps. The only issue is you are going to be always in your falloff, so in the end your effective dps is going to be similar to the kronos. If you don't like being in falloff, you can use the artillery setup, which will perform just fine.
All marauder have issues in dealing with elite frigates in missions, and unless you snipe them down, you'll have to rely on your drones to finish them off. You can also use a Large Micro Jump Drive to return into a sniping range and finish them off, but I believe this is the least efficent way.
Hope it helped |
John Ratcliffe
Sarumans Hand
272
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Posted - 2014.06.21 18:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
Why choose between them, just buy one of each and swap between them as missions require. Plus +ºa change, plus c'est la m+¬me chose |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
539
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Posted - 2014.06.23 23:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
after flying a mach a vargur is just plain boring.
as for paladin vs Kronos I'd say it really just depends on what you shoot most often. Imo the fit that goes on is pretty much the same, loads of damage mods, as many tracking comps as you can, and then a sensor booster. Bring a mobile depot so you can swap between MWD, MJD, and close/long range weapons as needed. Maybe worth bringing a cap injector with some charges too. You can trust me, I have a monocole |
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elitatwo
Congregatio
245
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Posted - 2014.06.24 01:48:00 -
[11] - Quote
Captn' Crunch wrote:As the topic says, which do you guys think is better? I mainly fly L4s in my Mach. I may be looking into other pve activities with a Marauder, but mostly interested in L4s at the moment. The Kronos and Paladin will take roughly the same time for me to train.
Cheers for the input and help.
I really hate to say this but why not stay in your machariel?
There seems to be a great misunderstanding floating through the cosmos regarding ship progression. I have noticed that some younger folks, mostly at ages < 25 that seem to believe that the ship "progression" go as the following:
tech 1 < faction < pirate < tech 2 < tech 3
well that is very incorrect to assume. The correct order of things is rather:
tech 1 < faction <> special snowflake case (tech 2) <> all tech 2 special snowflakes as one boat aka tech 3 < pirate < capital < supercapital, where pirate is the higest performer of all classes below captial ships.
So, what have we learned today, kids?
A marauder class vessel is a special snowflake case of a battleship, just like blackops are a special kind of stepechil- erm I mean battleship that lack the love of the gods and are not meant to be "better" as a pirate faction class vessel.
Class dismissed signature |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1212
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 01:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Captn' Crunch wrote:As the topic says, which do you guys think is better? I mainly fly L4s in my Mach. I may be looking into other pve activities with a Marauder, but mostly interested in L4s at the moment. The Kronos and Paladin will take roughly the same time for me to train.
Cheers for the input and help. I really hate to say this but why not stay in your machariel? There seems to be a great misunderstanding floating through the cosmos regarding ship progression. I have noticed that some younger folks, mostly at ages < 25 that seem to believe that the ship "progression" go as the following: tech 1 < faction < pirate < tech 2 < tech 3 well that is very incorrect to assume. The correct order of things is rather: tech 1 < faction <> special snowflake case (tech 2) <> all tech 2 special snowflakes as one boat aka tech 3 < pirate < capital < supercapital, where pirate is the higest performer of all classes below captial ships. So, what have we learned today, kids? A marauder class vessel is a special snowflake case of a battleship, just like blackops are a special kind of stepechil- erm I mean battleship that lack the love of the gods and are not meant to be "better" as a pirate faction class vessel. Class dismissed Considering we're talking about PvE it makes sense that the PvE centric "special snowflakes" would be competitive with their pirate counterparts. Personally I find that for me the marauders have more to offer in a total PvE package. |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
4069
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Posted - 2014.06.24 09:27:00 -
[13] - Quote
Tell me more about how your pirate hulks are better than a marauder.
Sips tea. |
Locutus Mind
Viziam Amarr Empire
11
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Posted - 2014.06.24 19:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
fly what you enjoy. i had a nm and sold it for a paladin. paladin is super tank sniper but is stationary. does the job but is boaring as a brick. miss my nm called her Marie |
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
625
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Posted - 2014.06.24 19:55:00 -
[15] - Quote
Paladin and name it Shark.
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Odithia
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
47
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Posted - 2014.06.25 10:08:00 -
[16] - Quote
One of my characters fly a Paladin, this is the only marauder I can fly and I chose it for the large effective range of Mega Pulse. Turn out that because of the damage profile of Scorch (EM), I find the ship to be more effective with Tachyon and a MJD/MWD dualprop. Hybrid have a damage profile that is much more versatile than lasers (+á lot of factions are weak to Kin and/or Therm) , for this reason I believe the Kronos is the better choice. If I had to do it again I would have trained for a Kronos or Vargur instead of Paladin.
The perk of marauders vs Pirate BS is the Bastion module that nullify Ewar. And the fact that you can get a solid tank for either less slots or much less Isk. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2026
|
Posted - 2014.06.25 11:51:00 -
[17] - Quote
Odithia wrote:One of my characters fly a Paladin, this is the only marauder I can fly and I chose it for the large effective range of Mega Pulse. Turn out that because of the damage profile of Scorch (EM), I find the ship to be more effective with Tachyon and a MJD/MWD dualprop. Hybrid have a damage profile that is much more versatile than lasers (+á lot of factions are weak to Kin and/or Therm) , for this reason I believe the Kronos is the better choice. If I had to do it again I would have trained for a Kronos or Vargur instead of Paladin.
The perk of marauders vs Pirate BS is the Bastion module that nullify Ewar. And the fact that you can get a solid tank for either less slots or much less Isk. three points: - if you stay in amarr space, there is barely any need for other damage types. in my experience there are almost no missions offered by amarr agents in amarr space that can not be comfortably and quickly done in a paladin.
- i agree that tachs are racially superior to pulses, but so far, nobody has ever managed to give me a good reason for using an mjd. why would you waste a perfectly good medium slot on a prop mod you will barely ever use?
- while the damage profile of hybrids is certainly preferable to lasers, their other stats are anything but. blasters are too short-ranged for most missions, even with bastion, whereas railguns suffer from tracking issues, much more so than tachs. you could switch between them in missions i guess, but to me this is way too much effort to justify the minuscule advantage in mission completion times.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
628
|
Posted - 2014.06.25 12:25:00 -
[18] - Quote
I use an MJD all the time on my Golem... saves having to chew on cap boosters like they are Tums.
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Odithia
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
47
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Posted - 2014.06.25 12:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote: three points: - if you stay in amarr space, there is barely any need for other damage types. in my experience there are almost no missions offered by amarr agents in amarr space that can not be comfortably and quickly done in a paladin.
- i agree that tachs are racially superior to pulses, but so far, nobody has ever managed to give me a good reason for using an mjd. why would you waste a perfectly good medium slot on a prop mod you will barely ever use?
- while the damage profile of hybrids is certainly preferable to lasers, their other stats are anything but. blasters are too short-ranged for most missions, even with bastion, whereas railguns suffer from tracking issues, much more so than tachs. you could switch between them in missions i guess, but to me this is way too much effort to justify the minuscule advantage in mission completion times.
I estimate that between a third and half of the missions in Amarr space are not against BR or Sansha. Of those, half are against laser resistant ennemies (hello The Assault).
I find the MJD convenient to quickly get out of the pack of enemy and get some good tracking against them, not that I use it all the time though, but it feel more useful than another tracking computer.
I've never used 425s so can't comment on their tracking relatively to Tachyon, but they do seem pretty cool on paper. Blasters is obviously tricky with bastion that makes you immobile. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2026
|
Posted - 2014.06.25 13:03:00 -
[20] - Quote
Odithia wrote: I estimate that between a third and half of the missions in Amarr space are not against BR or Sansha. Of those, half are against laser resistant ennemies (hello The Assault).
if you aren't blitzing the assault, you're doing it wrongGäó. if you are, the damage type is barely relevant, since you only need to kill ~80000EHP worth of rats.
Quote: I find the MJD convenient to quickly get out of the pack of enemy and get some good tracking against them, not that I use it all the time though, but it feel more useful than another tracking computer.
three TCs with tracking scripts will have you reliably hit anything that is not an orbiting frigate, especially if you use gleam. no need to waste eight seconds to jump outside of high damage crystal range only to then have to jump back.
Quote: I've never used 425s so can't comment on their tracking relatively to Tachyon, but they do seem pretty cool on paper. Blasters is obviously tricky with bastion that makes you immobile.
in this case 'tricky' is a euphemism for 'fucking annoying'. rails just don't cut it as far as tracking goes. they do come close to tach tracking, but don't quite reach it and the paper dps is lower than a cruise raven's.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
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Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
75
|
Posted - 2014.06.25 14:22:00 -
[21] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote: three TCs with tracking scripts will have you reliably hit anything that is not an orbiting frigate, especially if you use gleam. no need to waste eight seconds to jump outside of high damage crystal range only to then have to jump back.
Even with gleam, perfect tracking speed skills and 3 TCs the very close orbiting angels are still impossible to hit in my experience. With Tachs. The point is to jump so that nothing ever gets into orbit range in the first place. Anything in targeting range (113km) is able to be hit with ~900 DPS gamma and anything within ~80km is in range of Multifrequency. Assuming paladin, of course. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2026
|
Posted - 2014.06.25 15:13:00 -
[22] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Daniel Plain wrote: three TCs with tracking scripts will have you reliably hit anything that is not an orbiting frigate, especially if you use gleam. no need to waste eight seconds to jump outside of high damage crystal range only to then have to jump back.
Even with gleam, perfect tracking speed skills and 3 TCs the very close orbiting angels are still impossible to hit in my experience. With Tachs. The point is to jump so that nothing ever gets into orbit range in the first place. Anything in targeting range (113km) is able to be hit with ~900 DPS gamma and anything within ~80km is in range of Multifrequency. Assuming paladin, of course. there is no good reason to shoot angels in the first place, then there is no good reason to let them come close enough to orbit (that's what your mwd is for). lastly, if you find yourself in a situation where your target is orbiting you, all you have to do is click 'keep at distance' to reduce angular velocity.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
75
|
Posted - 2014.06.25 15:34:00 -
[23] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Daniel Plain wrote: three TCs with tracking scripts will have you reliably hit anything that is not an orbiting frigate, especially if you use gleam. no need to waste eight seconds to jump outside of high damage crystal range only to then have to jump back.
Even with gleam, perfect tracking speed skills and 3 TCs the very close orbiting angels are still impossible to hit in my experience. With Tachs. The point is to jump so that nothing ever gets into orbit range in the first place. Anything in targeting range (113km) is able to be hit with ~900 DPS gamma and anything within ~80km is in range of Multifrequency. Assuming paladin, of course. there is no good reason to shoot angels in the first place, then there is no good reason to let them come close enough to orbit (that's what your mwd is for). lastly, if you find yourself in a situation where your target is orbiting you, all you have to do is click 'keep at distance' to reduce angular velocity. Well if you're going to be brawling at close range with a paladin but not ever using bastion and also not shooting angels in the first place because you never pick up angels missions and simultaneously still shooting angels because you're addressing my point....
Then I don't understand the situation but it sounds like a moving goalpost to me. I'd rather just be at MJD range and blow everything away instantly with my volleys without having to use a MWD ever, but whatever. |
Chris Thiesere
IonTek LLC
11
|
Posted - 2014.06.25 17:11:00 -
[24] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Daniel Plain wrote: three TCs with tracking scripts will have you reliably hit anything that is not an orbiting frigate, especially if you use gleam. no need to waste eight seconds to jump outside of high damage crystal range only to then have to jump back.
Even with gleam, perfect tracking speed skills and 3 TCs the very close orbiting angels are still impossible to hit in my experience. With Tachs. The point is to jump so that nothing ever gets into orbit range in the first place. Anything in targeting range (113km) is able to be hit with ~900 DPS gamma and anything within ~80km is in range of Multifrequency. Assuming paladin, of course.
Trade one TC for a web and you will hit them without a problem.
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Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2026
|
Posted - 2014.06.25 21:32:00 -
[25] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Daniel Plain wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Daniel Plain wrote: three TCs with tracking scripts will have you reliably hit anything that is not an orbiting frigate, especially if you use gleam. no need to waste eight seconds to jump outside of high damage crystal range only to then have to jump back.
Even with gleam, perfect tracking speed skills and 3 TCs the very close orbiting angels are still impossible to hit in my experience. With Tachs. The point is to jump so that nothing ever gets into orbit range in the first place. Anything in targeting range (113km) is able to be hit with ~900 DPS gamma and anything within ~80km is in range of Multifrequency. Assuming paladin, of course. there is no good reason to shoot angels in the first place, then there is no good reason to let them come close enough to orbit (that's what your mwd is for). lastly, if you find yourself in a situation where your target is orbiting you, all you have to do is click 'keep at distance' to reduce angular velocity. Well if you're going to be brawling at close range with a paladin but not ever using bastion and also not shooting angels in the first place because you never pick up angels missions and simultaneously still shooting angels because you're addressing my point.... Then I don't understand the situation but it sounds like a moving goalpost to me. I'd rather just be at MJD range and blow everything away instantly with my volleys without having to use a MWD ever, but whatever.
- pointing out the flaws in your argument has nothing to do with shifting the goal post - you still have to use an mwd to get to gates in every other mission, might as well use it to not have to waste a mid slot on an mjd - show me where i said i never use bastion
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
75
|
Posted - 2014.06.25 21:58:00 -
[26] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Daniel Plain wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Daniel Plain wrote: three TCs with tracking scripts will have you reliably hit anything that is not an orbiting frigate, especially if you use gleam. no need to waste eight seconds to jump outside of high damage crystal range only to then have to jump back.
Even with gleam, perfect tracking speed skills and 3 TCs the very close orbiting angels are still impossible to hit in my experience. With Tachs. The point is to jump so that nothing ever gets into orbit range in the first place. Anything in targeting range (113km) is able to be hit with ~900 DPS gamma and anything within ~80km is in range of Multifrequency. Assuming paladin, of course. there is no good reason to shoot angels in the first place, then there is no good reason to let them come close enough to orbit (that's what your mwd is for). lastly, if you find yourself in a situation where your target is orbiting you, all you have to do is click 'keep at distance' to reduce angular velocity. Well if you're going to be brawling at close range with a paladin but not ever using bastion and also not shooting angels in the first place because you never pick up angels missions and simultaneously still shooting angels because you're addressing my point.... Then I don't understand the situation but it sounds like a moving goalpost to me. I'd rather just be at MJD range and blow everything away instantly with my volleys without having to use a MWD ever, but whatever. - pointing out the flaws in your argument has nothing to do with shifting the goal post - you still have to use an mwd to get to gates in every other mission, might as well use it to not have to waste a mid slot on an mjd - show me where i said i never use bastion -eh -I never do fit a MWD because MJD is incredibly versatile and accel gates actually have a 30km diameter and the only way to miss one is by intention or not knowing what you're doing -the part where you said frigates and transversal. Its not really compatible with bastion. -
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Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2026
|
Posted - 2014.06.26 08:15:00 -
[27] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:-I never do fit a MWD because MJD is incredibly versatile and accel gates actually have a 30km diameter and the only way to miss one is by intention or not knowing what you're doing
unless the gate is between 70 and 130km away (i cannot recall any mission where this is the case), you will need two jumps to reach it. in the 86 seconds it would take you to do that, you could slowboat roughly 15km, even without an mwd, all the while shooting inmf or gleam instead of downgrading to lower damage crystals.
Quote:-the part where you said frigates and transversal. Its not really compatible with bastion. please present a valid and sound argument that demonstrates how using the words 'frigates' and 'transversal' implies that i never activate the bastion module.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
76
|
Posted - 2014.06.26 11:16:00 -
[28] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:-I never do fit a MWD because MJD is incredibly versatile and accel gates actually have a 30km diameter and the only way to miss one is by intention or not knowing what you're doing
unless the gate is between 70 and 130km away (i cannot recall any mission where this is the case), you will need two jumps to reach it. in the 86 seconds it would take you to do that, you could slowboat roughly 15km, even without an mwd, all the while shooting inmf or gleam instead of downgrading to lower damage crystals. Quote:-the part where you said frigates and transversal. Its not really compatible with bastion. please present a valid and sound argument that demonstrates how using the words 'frigates' and 'transversal' implies that i never activate the bastion module. There's nothing wrong with me shooting while waiting out a MJD timer. I don't know why you think I can't. The second part was sarcasm, no need for your panties to get in a bunch. However I'm just going to point out managing transversal still means many shots will miss since pirates generally will not oblige to head straight for you unless they are at a very large distance from you. They fly at an angle to aim for an orbit just like player ships do when you hit "orbit". |
Anize Oramara
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
188
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Posted - 2014.06.26 12:02:00 -
[29] - Quote
I've found that trying to explain how to fly the new marauders efficiently to certain pilots is like trying to describe the colour blue to someone that has willfully walked their entire life with yellow tinted glasses.
they just cant seem to get out of the self induced rut they ended up in. it is best to give these guys their Machariel and let them be.
I've found a similar thing with some rattler pilots as well. people just can not seem to be able to adapt and so they will be left behind with their archaic way of thinking. |
Anize Oramara
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
188
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Posted - 2014.06.26 12:07:00 -
[30] - Quote
I've found that trying to explain how to fly the new marauders efficiently to certain pilots is like trying to describe the colour blue to someone that has willfully walked their entire life with yellow tinted glasses.
they just cant seem to get out of the self induced rut they ended up in. it is best to give these guys their Machariel and let them be.
I've found a similar thing with some rattler pilots as well. people just can not seem to be able to adapt and so they will be left behind with their archaic way of thinking. |
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