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Tepek Esubria
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.06.21 17:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm a noobie industrialst/trader who just made it big in the market. I wanted to invest some of my profits in a pvp character for a few billion isk that would save me a year of training skills on a self-made alt. My friends disagree on whether this is a good idea. One of them says it's a good investment that will save me frustration. The other one says I will be barred from joining good pvp corps because the character is a bazaar toon.
Any opinion on this NCQ&A? I'd love to save myself some time, but on the same token, I would hate to be discriminated against because I took a short-cut. Any comments are welcome. Thanks in advance. |
Paranoid Loyd
727
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Posted - 2014.06.21 18:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
I don't recommend buying a character. A lot is learned from understanding and training skills. This game is about patience, understanding the mechanics and using them to your advantage. Cutting corners rarely ends well, there are exceptions but this is not one of them. "PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite |
L'ouris
Have Naught Subsidiaries
161
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Posted - 2014.06.21 18:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
If you buy a character, just be up front with the recruiter, a link to the buy thread in the bazaar and your API should clear up any trouble.
As mentioned however, you may find it just as easy to skill up a character and learn PVP one ship loss at a time funded by your market success.
I suppose you can save a lot of headache just buying a character with max fitting skills then customizing it however you want, as long as you don't confuse skillpoints with PVP skill. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
19144
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Posted - 2014.06.21 18:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
TBH I'd be more worried about not knowing how to use the ships that a purchased character is capable of flying.
SP is only a small part of what makes a good PvP pilot, the things that you, as a player, learn by working your way up the ship tree are just as, if not more, important as the SP of your character.
By all means buy a character, just don't be shocked to find yourself dying an awful lot as you learn how to use it, and its skills, effectively. At the end of the day a newbie with a 50 million SP character is still a newbie.
Experience is way more important than you think, bigger is not always better, and it's not the "gear" but how you use it that's important.
Nil mortifi sine lucre |
Tepek Esubria
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.06.21 18:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
Thanks for the feedback. I definitely am not under the illustion that I can just roll on with a new character and pwnzone with an expensive ship. I actually am seeking a character with only a few million sp, core training done, so I can get to losing t1 frigates and destroyers with t2 fits more quickly. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
5587
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Posted - 2014.06.21 18:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
Tepek Esubria wrote:I actually am seeking a character with only a few million sp, core training done, so I can get to losing t1 frigates and destroyers with t2 fits more quickly. I would very much NOT recommend this.
I am not sure what your long term PvP budget is... but without much combat experience you WILL die... T2 fit or otherwise. And using high-end gear will get expensive over time unless you know what you are doing.
To be honest... this is precisely why people recommend you start fresh. Because you will be limited to Tech 1 fits your losses can be easily dismissed and you will be forced to look for other means of "winning" other than "have more SP, have better gear" and so forth. However, if you can limit yourself a little bit (see: using T1 fits, no implants, etc) until you get the hang of things then I see no problem with you buying a character (other than my personal distaste for it ). Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?" |
Tepek Esubria
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.06.21 18:47:00 -
[7] - Quote
You're right, sticking to cheap meta1-2 stuff is probably better investing. |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
4036
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Posted - 2014.06.21 18:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tepek Esubria wrote:I'm a noobie industrialst/trader who just made it big in the market. I wanted to invest some of my profits in a pvp character for a few billion isk that would save me a year of training skills on a self-made alt. My friends disagree on whether this is a good idea. One of them says it's a good investment that will save me frustration. The other one says I will be barred from joining good pvp corps because the character is a bazaar toon.
Any opinion on this NCQ&A? I'd love to save myself some time, but on the same token, I would hate to be discriminated against because I took a short-cut. Any comments are welcome. Thanks in advance.
My personal opinion:
You will likely fail horribly.
Why:
Just because you bought that character that can fly nearly all possible ships and fits in the game, doesn't mean that YOU can.
Start your own character, skill it up and while skilling it up...Go PvP and learn how to survive and kill others (with the occasional loss of ship mixed in).
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road |
Tepek Esubria
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.06.21 19:01:00 -
[9] - Quote
I doubt I can buy a character like you're describing for 5bil, which is the budget I have. lol |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
19147
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Posted - 2014.06.21 19:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tepek Esubria wrote:I doubt I can buy a character like you're describing for 5bil, which is the budget I have. lol I sold a character recently for 11B that had 45M SP, he had decent support skills, could fly pretty much everything T1, from all 4 races, up to and including battleships, as well as T3 cruisers and a couple of T2 ships effectively.
TL;DR You'll be surprised at what you can buy for your budget.
Nil mortifi sine lucre |
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Qaping Pi
Solvent Green Recycling
14
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Posted - 2014.06.21 19:23:00 -
[11] - Quote
Tepek Esubria wrote:I doubt I can buy a character like you're describing for 5bil, which is the budget I have. lol
5 bil will buy you an ARMADA of fully-fitted frigs, dessies, and cruisers to explode and learn from. You should even have a couple bil left over to tip me when your finished. |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
4036
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Posted - 2014.06.21 19:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
Qaping Pi wrote:Tepek Esubria wrote:I doubt I can buy a character like you're describing for 5bil, which is the budget I have. lol 5 bil will buy you an ARMADA of fully-fitted frigs, dessies, and cruisers to explode and learn from. You should even have a couple bil left over to tip me when your finished.
This.
For 5 bil you can:
Join the Agony PvP classes (all of them).
Buy a shitload of frigates, destroyers and couple of cruisers.
Join roams (RvB Ganked, Agony Alumni roams, Redemption Road roams)
And still have couple of billion to spare to buy new replacements if needed. Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road |
Tepek Esubria
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.06.21 21:49:00 -
[13] - Quote
How much sp to join those classes or corps? |
Ethikos
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
33
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Posted - 2014.06.21 22:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
Honestly, if I was in your shoes I would not bother with buying the character. Instead I would look at joining someone like RvB / EvE Uni / Brave University with my new pvp character (ie roll one up). They have ships geared to brand new players. As you skill up SP wise, your ability to fly better ships will increase at the same pace. There is a really an insane amount to learn even at the frigate level. No need to rush things. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=266074 - Sniggwaffe (Waffles)
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J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
4036
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Posted - 2014.06.21 22:50:00 -
[15] - Quote
Tepek Esubria wrote:How much sp to join those classes or corps?
Agony PvP classes - very very low SP friendly. Their BASIC class basically uses T1 frigates and with T1 modules, so within a week or 2 you can technically use their recommended fits.
RvB Ganked / Redemption Road roams - public roams, you have to do very very terrible things to not be allowed to join. Even if you can just a very very basic frigate, they will take you. For them it's not about being top dog, it's about having fun with a group of people. So as long as you can fly with them (e.g. have a ship) you are good to go. Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
5588
|
Posted - 2014.06.21 23:53:00 -
[16] - Quote
@ Tepek Esubria...
If you find yourself a decent group** then it will not matter how much SP you have. All you really need for PvPing with others is a Microwarpdrive and a Warp Disruptor/Scrambler. Pin down enemies, listen and watch what is going on around you, try to survive, and ask questions regardless of the outcome. This is essentially what I did when I was flying T1-fit Incursus with less than 2 months of combat experience and SP.
** When I say "decent group" I mean; active, do not take themselves too seriously, possess "bloodlust," and not TOO "mentally challenged." You can generally find these groups scattered about in areas that see a lot of PvP. Faction Warfare and low-sec in general are hives of such groups. And generally, the better they are, the less they will advertise themselves. To find and get into them, you have to work your way into their ranks via recommendations. And attitude will get you in more than any amount of skillpoints. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?" |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
4036
|
Posted - 2014.06.22 03:07:00 -
[17] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:And generally, the better they are, the less they will advertise themselves. To find and get into them, you have to work your way into their ranks via recommendations. And attitude will get you in more than any amount of skillpoints.
Quoting for truth.
Someone who is very good at what they do, don't need massive adverts to get new players. People will know where to find them.
Also, this means that at times they are a tad bit "harder" to get into. But getting to know them and showing the right attitude will be a great way to achieve meeting the "minimum recruitment" requirements.
If a proper group has the choice of:
A. A high SP character, bought and flown by a new player that is ignorant, doesn't want to learn, thinks that his SP means he is good and in general is an *******.
B. A low SP new player but with a good mindset, willing to learn from his mistakes, asks questions after the fight about how he can improve himself and in general a very nice person to hang around with.
They will go for option B, because that person is not only nicer to fly with, but also generally much easier to get to work with the group.
In my past while I was a recruiter for several corps, what I found out is that having a new player with less SP vs a player with massive SP and loads of actual experience both with the same attitude the low SP ones are easier to work with. They aren't biased, they don't have the "veteran virus" (in that they always know better how to do something) and in general are more open to ideas and suggestions (basically, they are easier to mold into the pilot the group needs so that it benefits both the new player and the group in general). Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road |
Tepek Esubria
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.06.22 06:10:00 -
[18] - Quote
Thanks again for all the feedback, you all are very convincing. I think I will make my own character and do as you've suggested.
Soo um... what race has the most flexible t1 frigates to learn with? |
Dally Lama
Republic University Minmatar Republic
23
|
Posted - 2014.06.22 10:41:00 -
[19] - Quote
OP, do not take their advice. It doesn't make any sense.
If you want to fly T1 frigates and destroyers that is advisable. Doing so with a low-SP character will only make your experience worse though as the ships will be even more flimsy than usual. Flying those kinds of ships with a well-trained character will allow you to properly take advantage of them.
You will be PVPing players that have tens of millions of SP; you'll want to match that as best you can.
If you've made it big in the market and you have the ISK to spare, I don't see the problem with buying a well trained character. Just make sure to fly cheap T1 ships until you're good at PVP.
There are only a few reasons to ever make a fresh character in this game when you have ISK to spare for one. Off the top of my head: 1) If you want your own personal name 2) If no characters on the market are acceptable to you 3) Certain espionage scenarios where you don't want the char to be known as a bazaar purchase New Fitting Window | Distances above 10km | Maximums for buy orders |
Dally Lama
Republic University Minmatar Republic
23
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Posted - 2014.06.22 10:44:00 -
[20] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Tepek Esubria wrote:I doubt I can buy a character like you're describing for 5bil, which is the budget I have. lol I sold a character recently for 11B that had 45M SP, had decent support skills, could fly pretty much everything T1, from all 4 races, up to and including battleships, as well as T3 cruisers and a couple of T2 ships effectively. TL;DR You'll be surprised at what you can buy for your budget, I still wouldn't advise it for a newbie though. Your character was worth 22.5bil minimum in terms of PLEX costs to get that much SP. Not sure why you sold it for 11 :P New Fitting Window | Distances above 10km | Maximums for buy orders |
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
2176
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Posted - 2014.06.22 11:01:00 -
[21] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote: And attitude will get you in more than any amount of skillpoints. quoting for emphasis.
"CAKE CANNOT HOLD UP TO BEING A CHARACTER DAMNIT."
Unsuccessful At Everything |
Lantro
Loonstar
7
|
Posted - 2014.06.22 12:17:00 -
[22] - Quote
Attitude doesn't grant more CPU or better cap recharge. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
2177
|
Posted - 2014.06.22 14:38:00 -
[23] - Quote
Lantro wrote:Attitude doesn't grant more CPU or better cap recharge. true, however sp will not get you invited into corps. doesn't make you friends or gain you contacts.
you will never get a nod of respect from someone who kicked your arse because of the sp your toon has but if you show a resilient attitude or at the least remember to laugh it off and say " you got me" people will bend over backwards to help you understand how to get better.
Edit: the same goes for the forums as well, example "CAKE CANNOT HOLD UP TO BEING A CHARACTER DAMNIT."
Unsuccessful At Everything |
Amaranthe Emberd
Macabre Votum Northern Coalition.
13
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Posted - 2014.06.22 15:07:00 -
[24] - Quote
The OP seems to me like a reasonable person that's aware they will lose ships in the beginning and already has a proper attitude. I can't see why he has to spend 6+ months to get support skills. He can join many of the new player friendly groups and corps with a character that has the actual skills to fit properly a t1 frigate.
In the end it's up to you OP, you'll have to learn the exact same things in both cases. And if you were able to make 5b I don't think losing a few hundred t1 frigates with t2 fits will be that much worse than losing the same number of frigates with meta 4 modules. |
Tepek Esubria
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2014.06.22 16:17:00 -
[25] - Quote
Thanks for voicing the other opinion. I think that makes much more sense. |
Qalix
Four Pillars Brothers of Tangra
279
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 15:54:00 -
[26] - Quote
Ignore the naysayers.
Yes, its true that you want to get good at flying basic ships before you start throwing money around. But as you will quickly learn after you join a pvp corp (say, Brave Newbies), being weeks and even months behind the doctrine fits means you can't even participate in the kind of fleets that would allow you to learn to fly the ship in the first place.
There are relatively few corps that use t1 frigates on any kind of regular basis and the ones that do tend to blob them. You'll learn just as effectively with a 20m skillpoint character as a 2mil skillpoint character but you won't be smacking your forehead against the screen every time you realize it's 2 more days to train a skill before you can fit the next module.
While I would advise against throwing money away, its also worth noting that flying a better ship gives you more of a margin for error while you're learning. 60 extra seconds of fighting might be the 60 extra seconds for you to figure out "ooooooohhh, i fit close range weapons THAT's why he's kiting me" rather than dying in 10 seconds before you can even figure out which buttons to mash frantically.
Go for it. Worst case scenario, you resell the character with more skillpoints for more than you bought it for. Win-Win.
edit: Also, Brave Newbies doesn't care about your history. Put in an app and start blowing stuff up ASAP. |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Unleashed Pestilence
744
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Posted - 2014.06.23 22:22:00 -
[27] - Quote
Dally Lama wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Tepek Esubria wrote:I doubt I can buy a character like you're describing for 5bil, which is the budget I have. lol I sold a character recently for 11B that had 45M SP, had decent support skills, could fly pretty much everything T1, from all 4 races, up to and including battleships, as well as T3 cruisers and a couple of T2 ships effectively. TL;DR You'll be surprised at what you can buy for your budget, I still wouldn't advise it for a newbie though. Your character was worth 22.5bil minimum in terms of PLEX costs to get that much SP. Not sure why you sold it for 11 :P Quoted for truth.
As for races, I recommend minmatar or gallente. They both have ships that can be fit a variety of ways, whether you're looking at scram range kiting in a slasher or breacher, mwd kiting in a slasher, atron or tristan, or brawling in a rifter or incursus. I don't know much about the firetail, but the Federation Navy Comet is supposed to be a pretty good ship to step into once you have a few wins under your belt.
Hit me up in game if you want some links that might translate the above sentences. New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
Starden Arnolles
Phoibe Enterprises
18
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Posted - 2014.06.23 22:59:00 -
[28] - Quote
As several have posted, if your reason for buying a character is to be able to rush into PVP with success, skipping the learning curve by short-cutting the training time, the answer is it will not accomplish what you seek.
On the other hand, as Qalix pointed out in post #26, if you use it wisely you can learn quicker, gain experience faster and depending on how fast you learn, have more success faster, by doing it.
Other than PVP, it can enable you to do much the game has to offer at a higher and more profitable level in PVE.
I personally think it is a good move if you have the ISK, know you will stay with the game, and can discipline yourself to use it wisely until you get the experience to go with it. |
L'ouris
Have Naught Subsidiaries
161
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 23:07:00 -
[29] - Quote
I am utterly amazed at how many folk look back fondly on their AWU V skilling time.....
No one, not even the op, indicated that T2 ships or even gear would be better to start in, but not many seem to remember the waiting to fit all their guns.... |
That Forum Belike
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 23:33:00 -
[30] - Quote
L'ouris wrote:I am utterly amazed at how many folk look back fondly on their AWU V skilling time.....
No one, not even the op, indicated that T2 ships or even gear would be better to start in, but not many seem to remember the waiting to fit all their guns....
Ain't dat the got'danm truth?
I remember bustin' mah hump, runnin' all around with no support skills and readin' about fits mofukin FC was wantin' me to fly. Couldn't do none of em for 5 weeks. So like, there I be, month and a half jus flyin my skank-fit frigate into them suicide tackles. Sho'nuff liked to do it, but man it get old like hurry-up, you heard me?
Ain't never goin back to that skillpoint jail man. You gun hafta kill me. |
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