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Quant Predictorian
Futarchist Singularitists
7
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Posted - 2014.06.22 11:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
Why would corps need an office? Can a corp start manufacturing without an office? |
Ro Fenrios
Armilies corporation Gatekeepers Universe
13
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Posted - 2014.06.22 12:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
Depends on corp size. If small, office might not be needed at all. I suppose the main benefit of corporate office is the hangar divisions, to which you can give members access to. Grude example is; Say, miners mine for ore and throw it to certain hangar to which only they and industrial characters have access to. Indies then take ore / minerals from there and build stuff stuff. No other members have access to said hangar if you wish so.
Offices, if I am not mistaken, allow you to set your clone bay there as well, even if station was otherwise excluded from your clone station list.
But basically. you use corp office mainly to distribute / restrict certain corp assets to / from members you wish to. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
2177
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Posted - 2014.06.22 14:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
Its a useful utility if you have any more than say, 5ish members. you would know this had you even temporarily joined an established player corp as was recommended. "CAKE CANNOT HOLD UP TO BEING A CHARACTER DAMNIT."
Unsuccessful At Everything |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
4040
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Posted - 2014.06.22 18:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
Uhm...
Was going to say to read up on what corp's need and what an office does.
But then again, why waste my time. Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road |
Quant Predictorian
Futarchist Singularitists
7
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Posted - 2014.06.22 20:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
J'Poll wrote: But then again, why waste my time. We already gave you good advice multiple times and you ignore it anyway.
Why are you talking like that? I've read carefully what you wrote and suggested, and still reading your valuable posts. But you've repeated same paranoia about corp shares and I rejected to believe that paranoia. Still I don't believe that someone can steal a CEO position by owning less than 5% total shares. Why not test your argument? I can sell some %4.99 of the corp shares to you if you can afford it.
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
5608
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Posted - 2014.06.22 21:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
Quant Predictorian wrote:I've read carefully what you wrote and suggested, and still reading your valuable posts. But you've repeated same paranoia about corp shares and I rejected to believe that paranoia. Not to sound like a ****... but you are a fool if you do not retain a good amount of paranoia in EVE.
Quant Predictorian wrote:Still I don't believe that someone can steal a CEO position by owning less than 5% total shares. Why not test your argument? I can sell some %4.99 of the corp shares to you if you can afford it. Remember that you are playing a game where...
- a group of people spent the better part of a year working their way into the high-level positions of an alliance JUST to assassinate a certain character in his pimp ship and steal everything that was not bolted down in the corp/alliance hangers (with amounted to some hundred billion ISK or so plus several billion ISK from the person who wanted the character and his ship killed).
- a person started a bank and operated it for a year and a half... all with the intent of stealing all the capital he was entrusted with when it finally hit critical mass (some 700+ billion ISK).
- a group of people literally suicided their pods into the smartbombs of an arrogant person they tricked through an elaborate scheme that took a week to set up.
- if someone you trust becomes disgruntled (or paid off) enough, they can press a button and disband months of effort, resources, and money. Which is what happened with Bob (Band of Brother), the first incarnation of Goonswarm, and a few others.
- several other directors and I (who have less than 10% of the total corporate shares) create a vote for the Director spot every once in awhile... just to make sure our Glorious Leader is still paying attention. If he isn't... one of us will usually become Director of the alliance (at which point we give it back to him and laugh at his incompetence). Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?" |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
4042
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Posted - 2014.06.23 00:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
Quant Predictorian wrote:J'Poll wrote: But then again, why waste my time. We already gave you good advice multiple times and you ignore it anyway.
Why are you talking like that? I've read carefully what you wrote and suggested, and still reading your valuable posts. But you've repeated same paranoia about corp shares and I rejected to believe that paranoia. Still I don't believe that someone can steal a CEO position by owning less than 5% total shares. Why not test your argument? I can sell some %4.99 of the corp shares to you if you can afford it.
Sorry, I"m not giving my ISK to stupid people (or obvioius scammers). Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3772
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Posted - 2014.06.23 00:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
Quant Predictorian wrote:Still I don't believe that someone can steal a CEO position by owning less than 5% total shares. Why not test your argument? I can sell some %4.99 of the corp shares to you if you can afford it. In theory, how to replace a CEO with 1 share: 1. A director with no shares can start a vote to create additional shares, so at least double the total shares. 2. Any member or non-member with 1 share can pass the vote if nobody else votes. Only need majority of cast votes to win. 3. The director can create the shares (perform sanctionable actions) once the vote is passed. 4. The director can assign the new shares to anybody, including himself. 5. Whomever gets the shares can start a CEO replacement vote, and vote themself in. |
Quant Predictorian
Futarchist Singularitists
7
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Posted - 2014.06.23 06:20:00 -
[9] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Quant Predictorian wrote:Still I don't believe that someone can steal a CEO position by owning less than 5% total shares. Why not test your argument? I can sell some %4.99 of the corp shares to you if you can afford it. In theory, how to replace a CEO with 1 share: 1. A director with no shares can start a vote to create additional shares, so at least double the total shares. 2. Any member or non-member with 1 share can pass the vote if nobody else votes. Only need majority of cast votes to win. 3. The director can create the shares (perform sanctionable actions) once the vote is passed. 4. The director can assign the new shares to anybody, including himself. 5. Whomever gets the shares can start a CEO replacement vote, and vote themself in.
These problems could be removed by appointing only trusted directors to the corp or none, and CEO replacement vote could be done 7 days or more instead of 24 hours if CCP made a small addition to the corp system. There is no need to yell corp system is broken anyway. It works great if you know how to use it and trust no one is not the only choice.
P.S J'Poll I'm neither a scammer nor a stupid. Search these traits somewhere else.
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Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
1323
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Posted - 2014.06.23 07:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
Offices can be used to set up cascading access rights.
Say you have 2 divisions: Newb Division and Veterean Division for the sake of example. Everybody and their mom has access to the Newb Hanger, but only a select few content creators have access to the Veteran Hanger. These individuals can deliver anything in the Veteran Hanger to the Newb Hanger and to corp members' personal hangers, remotely. That means your trusted members can give corp assets to those with fewer rights, place them back into the Veteran Hanger once (and if) they are returned to the Newb Hanger (again, this can be done remotely by those with the proper acces rights).
Example: Say an FC is killing a structure, you want to help but have no ship. The FC can deliver you a Tornado in a nearby office using his access rights to the Veteran Hanger. You are expected to drop it back into Newb Hanger once the ops is complete and you haven't died. |
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3775
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Posted - 2014.06.23 07:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
Quant Predictorian wrote:These problems could be removed by appointing only trusted directors to the corp or none, and CEO replacement vote could be done 7 days or more instead of 24 hours if CCP made a small addition to the corp system. There is no need to yell corp system is broken anyway. It works great if you know how to use it and trust no one is not the only choice. That only works if the appointed people can be trusted, and they are ALWAYS available.
What happens when trustees go AWOL: Titans For You IPO STOP TITANS$U TRADE ASAP
Bad Bobby wrote:I removed all roles from the trustee alts prior to starting the vote to create 600 new shares (at around 06:57 on 29/08/10) in order to prevent them from taking the shares from the wallet, which they would have been able to do if I had left them with director roles.
The vote to create the 600 new shares passed (at 06:57 on 30/08/10 with 100% approval) and I took the 600 new shares. I combined those with my 200 shares and the 200 shares of one trustee to give me 1000 shares of voting power (an overall majority) out of the total of 1800 shares.
I only kicked the trustee alts out this morning (around 06:54 on 03/09/10) before starting the unlock votes on the 5 Titan BPOs. |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
4044
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Posted - 2014.06.23 09:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
Quant Predictorian wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:Quant Predictorian wrote:Still I don't believe that someone can steal a CEO position by owning less than 5% total shares. Why not test your argument? I can sell some %4.99 of the corp shares to you if you can afford it. In theory, how to replace a CEO with 1 share: 1. A director with no shares can start a vote to create additional shares, so at least double the total shares. 2. Any member or non-member with 1 share can pass the vote if nobody else votes. Only need majority of cast votes to win. 3. The director can create the shares (perform sanctionable actions) once the vote is passed. 4. The director can assign the new shares to anybody, including himself. 5. Whomever gets the shares can start a CEO replacement vote, and vote themself in. These problems could be removed by appointing only trusted directors to the corp or none, and CEO replacement vote could be done 7 days or more instead of 24 hours if CCP made a small addition to the corp system. There is no need to yell corp system is broken anyway. It works great if you know how to use it and trust no one is not the only choice. P.S J'Poll I'm neither a scammer nor a stupid. Search these traits somewhere else.
Lol
You again fail to see that people who want to rob you will take their time.
They first gain your trust, then have their alt made director and THEN steal the corp from you.
ooh and I love your ignorance even more, you just proven you are the 2nd one by blaming CCP that they made an error. Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
2202
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 10:06:00 -
[13] - Quote
J'Poll wrote:Quant Predictorian wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:Quant Predictorian wrote:Still I don't believe that someone can steal a CEO position by owning less than 5% total shares. Why not test your argument? I can sell some %4.99 of the corp shares to you if you can afford it. In theory, how to replace a CEO with 1 share: 1. A director with no shares can start a vote to create additional shares, so at least double the total shares. 2. Any member or non-member with 1 share can pass the vote if nobody else votes. Only need majority of cast votes to win. 3. The director can create the shares (perform sanctionable actions) once the vote is passed. 4. The director can assign the new shares to anybody, including himself. 5. Whomever gets the shares can start a CEO replacement vote, and vote themself in. These problems could be removed by appointing only trusted directors to the corp or none, and CEO replacement vote could be done 7 days or more instead of 24 hours if CCP made a small addition to the corp system. There is no need to yell corp system is broken anyway. It works great if you know how to use it and trust no one is not the only choice. P.S J'Poll I'm neither a scammer nor a stupid. Search these traits somewhere else. Lol You again fail to see that people who want to rob you will take their time. They first gain your trust, then have their alt made director and THEN steal the corp from you. ooh and I love your ignorance even more, you just proven you are the 2nd one by blaming CCP that they made an error. at this point its willfull ignorance sooooo
"CAKE CANNOT HOLD UP TO BEING A CHARACTER DAMNIT."
Unsuccessful At Everything |
Quant Predictorian
Futarchist Singularitists
7
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Posted - 2014.06.23 11:11:00 -
[14] - Quote
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:Offices can be used to set up cascading access rights.
Say you have 2 divisions: Newb Division and Veterean Division for the sake of example. Everybody and their mom has access to the Newb Hanger, but only a select few content creators have access to the Veteran Hanger. These individuals can deliver anything in the Veteran Hanger to the Newb Hanger and to corp members' personal hangers, remotely. That means your trusted members can give corp assets to those with fewer rights, place them back into the Veteran Hanger once (and if) they are returned to the Newb Hanger (again, this can be done remotely by those with the proper acces rights).
Example: Say an FC is killing a structure, you want to help but have no ship. The FC can deliver you a Tornado in a nearby office using his access rights to the Veteran Hanger. You are expected to drop it back into Newb Hanger once the ops is complete and you haven't died.
Yeah this is all about hierarchy and expertise. How do you remove all the paranoia very well documented by J'Poll about trust issues?
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Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
1324
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Posted - 2014.06.23 11:59:00 -
[15] - Quote
Quant Predictorian wrote:Inxentas Ultramar wrote:Offices can be used to set up cascading access rights.
Say you have 2 divisions: Newb Division and Veterean Division for the sake of example. Everybody and their mom has access to the Newb Hanger, but only a select few content creators have access to the Veteran Hanger. These individuals can deliver anything in the Veteran Hanger to the Newb Hanger and to corp members' personal hangers, remotely. That means your trusted members can give corp assets to those with fewer rights, place them back into the Veteran Hanger once (and if) they are returned to the Newb Hanger (again, this can be done remotely by those with the proper acces rights).
Example: Say an FC is killing a structure, you want to help but have no ship. The FC can deliver you a Tornado in a nearby office using his access rights to the Veteran Hanger. You are expected to drop it back into Newb Hanger once the ops is complete and you haven't died. Yeah this is all about hierarchy and expertise. How do you remove all the paranoia very well documented by J'Poll about trust issues?
You create a role, name it Executive Director and give that too people instead of actual directorship. That leaves shares and CEO replacement the sole responsibility of the CEO, but you can keep adding roles to this title to open up more responsibilities in a controlled fashion. Don't delegate what your corp can't afford to lose. Also: anyone asking for more is not only suspect, he's out to mess with shares for sure. Because he can already do 99% of the other stuff, and what he cannot do in his current capacity is mega-trivial (such as prolonging the corp recruitment ad).
It's fine to be a little totalitarian as long as you are not a complete jerk about it: my corp members accept that we need to empower content-creating individuals without opening up glaring security holes. Hence we choose for a a top-down hierarchy. You might also use other methods such as decentralization or plain obscurity to safeguard corporate assets / ISK. The Decepticon adage peace through tyranny hasn't failed me so far.
At some point dude (A) will leave some expensive stuff in public hanger (B) from where another dude (C) steals it. Who is at fault here? Should A be scolded for his carelessness or should C be scolded for thievery? That's not something you remove, that's something you need to deal with. The better your security, the less of this drama will cut into your time doing actual fun stuff. |
Li Quiao
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
40
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Posted - 2014.06.23 13:54:00 -
[16] - Quote
Quant Predictorian wrote:
Yeah this is all about hierarchy and expertise. How do you remove all the paranoia very well documented by J'Poll about trust issues?
The paranoia is part of Eve. It's not *supposed* be removed. The mechanics are in fact constructed to make it the only rational response, as has been pointed out to you repeatedly. |
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
281
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 08:30:00 -
[17] - Quote
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:Offices can be used to set up cascading access rights.
Say you have 2 divisions: Newb Division and Veterean Division for the sake of example. Everybody and their mom has access to the Newb Hanger, but only a select few content creators have access to the Veteran Hanger. These individuals can deliver anything in the Veteran Hanger to the Newb Hanger and to corp members' personal hangers, remotely. That means your trusted members can give corp assets to those with fewer rights, place them back into the Veteran Hanger once (and if) they are returned to the Newb Hanger (again, this can be done remotely by those with the proper acces rights).
Example: Say an FC is killing a structure, you want to help but have no ship. The FC can deliver you a Tornado in a nearby office using his access rights to the Veteran Hanger. You are expected to drop it back into Newb Hanger once the ops is complete and you haven't died.
Yes, in principle but actually you drop the stuff right back to officer hangar lest someone might nick it from the newb hangar before it's has been moved back. |
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
1325
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 08:45:00 -
[18] - Quote
Baneken is off course 100% right and I changed my post to reflect this. I didn't want to make the example as complex, but a nice touch is indeed that members can drop stuff into hangers they cannot access, making it a one-way-street. |
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