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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22575
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 18:01:00 -
[91] - Quote
Lothros Andastar wrote:Simple solution is to simply not allow you to connect to TQ if you have ISBoxer installed, with permabans if you evade it. Why? Solution to what?
Wouldn't it be better to simply disconnect and pemaban anyone with a Symantec product installed, since those actually are bad for you and you should be taught not to use them? I mean, at least there would be some logic to that kind of move. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
De'Veldrin
Black Serpent Technologies The Unthinkables
2333
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 18:05:00 -
[92] - Quote
Lothros Andastar wrote:Simple solution is to simply not allow you to connect to TQ if you have ISBoxer installed, with permabans if you evade it.
Yeah, your assembly hall thread on this topic is riveting stuff. Especially the part where you accidentally ban everyone connecting from University housing. GÇ£SandboxGÇ¥ does not mean that you will succeed at anything you attempt; it means you can attempt anything you want to succeed at. One of the largest obstacles in the way of your success is other players. Schr+¦dinger's Hotdropper |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
1873
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 18:11:00 -
[93] - Quote
Pay to win is an interesting concept. In eve, bringing more isk to the table (in the form of falcon alts, OGB alts, Implants, Super hotdrops, etc.) can often provide an advantage to an individual or group. While they don't guarantee victory (individual skill is usually a much larger deciding factor), they can nonetheless help you advance your goals. And all of these things can be acquired with isk acquired through in game means or through sufficient quantities of real world currency exchanged for plex.
For all intents and purposes, isboxed clients fall into that same category.
So, is that pay to win? In Dota (for example), one guy controlling two heroes while taking up only one slot on a team might be considered pay to win. But Eve isn't Dota, and finding a fair fight in eve is like finding a needle in a haystack. Eve isn't about fair competition between two or more players. In fact, the "game" in eve is, more often than not, about securing some advantage over an opponent to allow for a decidedly unfair fight.
It's ultimately up to you if you think that is pay to win. If you look at it through the lens of Dota or some other equally banal "esport" game, maybe. But if that's what you think, you probably missed the entire point of eve. |
Stabs McShiv
MINUS4
11
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Posted - 2014.06.23 18:32:00 -
[94] - Quote
Isboxer will stop being pay to win when CCP pays our innerspace subscriptions. |
Carmen Electra
The Scope Gallente Federation
555
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 19:02:00 -
[95] - Quote
Stabs McShiv wrote:Isboxer will stop being pay to win when CCP pays our innerspace subscriptions.
Grrr software engineers who want to get paid for doing work. |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1925
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Posted - 2014.06.23 19:03:00 -
[96] - Quote
Did someone win the game???
Why wasn't I told?
~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
947
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 19:09:00 -
[97] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Did someone win the game???
Why wasn't I told?
Of course... It's a secret key combination but not many people know |
ashley Eoner
321
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Posted - 2014.06.23 20:18:00 -
[98] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:I'd be perfectly ok if they banned duplicated input, no matter what the source. You'll have to live with the fact that some of us don't want it in the game. You're asking for an impossibility... |
Prostetnik Vogon Jeltz
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.06.23 20:23:00 -
[99] - Quote
Personally I don't have a problem with multiboxers, I am one.
But when I multibox, I control my chars individually as I believe multiboxing software is essentially botting because you control one char and then rely on third party software to control the others, lets face it if that's not botting then what is.
It is also against the EULA, but will CCP do anything about it? No, because they are making money from it (indirectly), which is also having an effect on the in game economy which affects us all.
The problem is not just with the bomber fleets, but also also in mining (especially ice), incursions and although I haven't witnessed it, I dare say in wormholes too.
I would love to see a ban on multiboxing software and stop this game from being ruined, but just cant see CCP doing anything about it. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
5739
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 20:28:00 -
[100] - Quote
Prostetnik Vogon Jeltz wrote:
It is also against the EULA
I would love to see a ban on multiboxing software
wut "If someone doesn't appreciate your presence, make them appreciate your absence." - Anon. There is no Saviour but James 315 and Omir Sarakusa is his Prophet (PBUH) La ilaha illjames |
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Prostetnik Vogon Jeltz
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 20:38:00 -
[101] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Prostetnik Vogon Jeltz wrote:
It is also against the EULA
I would love to see a ban on multiboxing software
wut
CONDUCT A. Specifically Restricted Conduct
Your continued access to the System and license to play the Game is subject to proper conduct. Without limiting CCP's rights to control the Game environment, and the conduct of the players within that environment, CCP prohibits the following practices that CCP has determined detract from the overall user experience of the users playing the Game.
1. You may not take any action that imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on the System. 2. You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played. 3. You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.
As you can see part 2 states "You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played", which multiboxing software obviously does.
and part 3 "You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play.". Multiboxing software allows the acquisition of items in an accelerated way.
Therefore is in contravention of the EULA. |
ashley Eoner
321
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 20:43:00 -
[102] - Quote
Prostetnik Vogon Jeltz wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Prostetnik Vogon Jeltz wrote:
It is also against the EULA
I would love to see a ban on multiboxing software
wut CONDUCT A. Specifically Restricted Conduct Your continued access to the System and license to play the Game is subject to proper conduct. Without limiting CCP's rights to control the Game environment, and the conduct of the players within that environment, CCP prohibits the following practices that CCP has determined detract from the overall user experience of the users playing the Game. 1. You may not take any action that imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on the System. 2. You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played. 3. You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game. As you can see part 2 states "You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played", which multiboxing software obviously does. and part 3 "You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play.". Multiboxing software allows the acquisition of items in an accelerated way. Therefore is in contravention of the EULA. Except your wrong there is nothing changed in the game play environment. Ship models etc all stay the same.
Multiboxing does not allow for the accelerated acquisitions on a per account basis.
It seems to me that isboxer isn't even your problem. Your problem is that anyone can have more then one account or character.. Hell your argument would apply to having more then one character on an account since that fits your definition of "accelerated acquisition of items"..
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Carmen Electra
The Scope Gallente Federation
556
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 20:46:00 -
[103] - Quote
Prostetnik Vogon Jeltz wrote:Therefore is in contravention of the EULA.
The only wrench in your works would be the official position taken by CCP re: ISBoxer.
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Barzai Mekhar
True Confusion
127
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Posted - 2014.06.23 20:51:00 -
[104] - Quote
Prostetnik Vogon Jeltz wrote: As you can see part 2 states "You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played", which multiboxing software obviously does.
and part 3 "You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play.". Multiboxing software allows the acquisition of items in an accelerated way.
Therefore is in contravention of the EULA.
Both passages are open to interpretation, so stating that they are "obviously" shows you're only looking to find confirmation for your opinion. However, according to the most recent official interpretation: -Part 2 refers to modification of the game client which is not done. -Part 3 compares acquisition on a by-account basis, not on a by-player basis.
Not like this hasn't come up before. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
5741
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 20:52:00 -
[105] - Quote
Prostetnik Vogon Jeltz wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Prostetnik Vogon Jeltz wrote:
It is also against the EULA
I would love to see a ban on multiboxing software
wut Blah Therefore is in contravention of the EULA.
So how do you ban something that is banned ?
Even though it expressly isnt by CCP ruling "If someone doesn't appreciate your presence, make them appreciate your absence." - Anon. There is no Saviour but James 315 and Omir Sarakusa is his Prophet (PBUH) La ilaha illjames |
iskflakes
918
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 20:58:00 -
[106] - Quote
Perhaps the problem is bombers rather than isboxer? - |
Bland Inquisitor
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
76
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 20:58:00 -
[107] - Quote
macro -êmakr+Ö-è/ noun noun: macro; plural noun: macros; noun: macro instruction; plural noun: macros instruction; plural noun: macro instructions
1. Computing a single instruction that expands automatically into a set of instructions to perform a particular task.
Macro replicate keystrokes to perform tasks. ISBoxing replicates keystrokes to perform tasks.
Some of the illogical dribble in this thread scares me. EvE used to be a game for the more educated, logically minded individual. It seems that in its drive to increase population its swallowed up a bunch of drama-centric riffraff that are incapable of backing up arguments with facts, or debating and counter-debating a statement without resorting to insults and slander.
Simple fact for you;
ISBoxer is a 3rd party macro program. It copies keystrokes and replicates them across multiple accounts simultaneously. The very justification of being able to charge for said service is that it gives an advantage to its consumers. So to argue it isn't macro software and it doesn't give you an advantage over other players, is to argue against the very justification of being able to charge real money for it. |
Carmen Electra
The Scope Gallente Federation
556
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 20:59:00 -
[108] - Quote
Relevant |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
5742
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 21:00:00 -
[109] - Quote
Bland Inquisitor wrote:
Simple fact for you;.
CCP allow it
Case closed ffs "If someone doesn't appreciate your presence, make them appreciate your absence." - Anon. There is no Saviour but James 315 and Omir Sarakusa is his Prophet (PBUH) La ilaha illjames |
Bland Inquisitor
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
76
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 21:02:00 -
[110] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Bland Inquisitor wrote:
Simple fact for you;.
CCP allow it Case closed ffs
We used to allow slavery and Child labour, your saying we should of accepted that also even if its morally objectionable? |
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Marsha Mallow
1140
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Posted - 2014.06.23 21:04:00 -
[111] - Quote
Prostetnik Vogon Jeltz wrote:Therefore is in contravention of the EULA. I really wouldn't even bother with this. It's been ranted about repeatedly and there is a GM statement somewhere, which I can't be arsed to dig out, confirming ISBoxer isn't violating the EULA. Perhaps the spirit, but v0v
Trippia can and has explained this fairly clearly somewhere, it's something to do with the way ISBoxer interracts with the client.
Whether it's fair or not is a different matter. I'm not sure how multiboxing miners then sitting there grinding for ISK is 'winning Eve'. Or using fleets of ISBoxing bombers. It's not like you're going to take a region with your 10 or 20 bombing alts is it, so what exactly are they 'winning' other than the odd fight and a few squeals of outrage?
Indy and market wise some of us can beat the crap out of other players, corps and alliances with dozens of alts. Or just a handful. It's not even like they need to be logged in at the same time.
Next up: nerf the players. Because, well it's not fair. Some of them have minds and stuff TO THE RIPARDMOBILE! |
Falin Whalen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
660
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 21:05:00 -
[112] - Quote
Prostetnik Vogon Jeltz wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Prostetnik Vogon Jeltz wrote:
It is also against the EULA
I would love to see a ban on multiboxing software
wut CONDUCT A. Specifically Restricted Conduct Your continued access to the System and license to play the Game is subject to proper conduct. Without limiting CCP's rights to control the Game environment, and the conduct of the players within that environment, CCP prohibits the following practices that CCP has determined detract from the overall user experience of the users playing the Game. 1. You may not take any action that imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on the System. 2. You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played. 3. You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game. As you can see part 2 states "You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played", which multiboxing software obviously does. and part 3 "You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play.". Multiboxing software allows the acquisition of items in an accelerated way. Therefore is in contravention of the EULA. Well #2 is moot as it doesnt modify any content in the game itself and as for #3 it doesnt store rapid keystrokes or macros and doesn't accelerate the rate at which items are aquired versus ordinary game play, because you have ten accounts aquiring ten items at the same time is not the same as one account aquiring ten items at the same time, so why is ISBoxer bad? "it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz Kafka-á |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
5742
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 21:07:00 -
[113] - Quote
Bland Inquisitor wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Bland Inquisitor wrote:
Simple fact for you;.
CCP allow it Case closed ffs We used to allow slavery and Child labour, your saying we should of accepted that also even if its morally objectionable?
These things are also legal in EvE
Wanna buy a used sebiestor?
Seriously though, if you have a problem with it, fit a catty and go do somehting about it "If someone doesn't appreciate your presence, make them appreciate your absence." - Anon. There is no Saviour but James 315 and Omir Sarakusa is his Prophet (PBUH) La ilaha illjames |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
1966
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 21:09:00 -
[114] - Quote
Bland Inquisitor wrote: Simple fact for you;
ISBoxer is a 3rd party macro program. It copies keystrokes and replicates them across multiple accounts simultaneously. The very justification of being able to charge for said service is that it gives an advantage to its consumers. So to argue it isn't macro software and it doesn't give you an advantage over other players, is to argue against the very justification of being able to charge real money for it.
But an even simpler fact for you:
CCP have interpreted the EULA as it relates to ISBoxer and similar forms of multiboxing software and said it's ok in its current form.
There's not much point arguing beyond that because CCP own the game and can rule on clauses of the EULA as they see fit. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
. -á<- Argue this, not this ->-á( -í-¦ -£-û -í-¦) |
Prostetnik Vogon Jeltz
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 21:11:00 -
[115] - Quote
Prostetnik Vogon Jeltz wrote:[quote=Ramona McCandless][quote=Prostetnik Vogon Jeltz]
2. You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played. .
Note the part about "how the game is played"
that is the part I was pointing out :) |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
766
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 21:11:00 -
[116] - Quote
I'm still of the opinion that 'the player must be manually sending the command' is open for interpretation.
I can see ISBoxer being legal to organize your screen (like, have multiple client's ship controls next to each other). But I really don't see how using it to send commands to clients is legal in any way.
If you have 20 clients, you click on one button in one client and the program then sends it to the other 19 clients. Those other 19 clients are botting. Those 19 clients are not receiving manual input. And by automating the input of those 19 clients you are by definition gaining an advantage or 'accelerating gameplay which would not be possible otherwise'. Because let's face it, no-one would be able to give the same command to 19 clients at the same time without ISBoxer.
I really wish CCP would be crystal clear about this issue for once instead of leaving us with a super vague and easy to misinterpret comment about 'manual input'. My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
5742
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 21:12:00 -
[117] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Bland Inquisitor wrote: Simple fact for you;
ISBoxer is a 3rd party macro program. It copies keystrokes and replicates them across multiple accounts simultaneously. The very justification of being able to charge for said service is that it gives an advantage to its consumers. So to argue it isn't macro software and it doesn't give you an advantage over other players, is to argue against the very justification of being able to charge real money for it.
But an even simpler fact for you: CCP have interpreted the EULA as it relates to ISBoxer and similar forms of multiboxing software and said it's ok in its current form. There's not much point arguing beyond that because CCP own the game and can rule on clauses of the EULA as they see fit.
That's what I said, but then apparently that made it the same as slavery and child labour, somehow "If someone doesn't appreciate your presence, make them appreciate your absence." - Anon. There is no Saviour but James 315 and Omir Sarakusa is his Prophet (PBUH) La ilaha illjames |
Prostetnik Vogon Jeltz
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 21:15:00 -
[118] - Quote
ashley Eoner wrote:[quote=Prostetnik Vogon Jeltz][quote=Ramona McCandless][quote=Prostetnik Vogon Jeltz]
It seems to me that isboxer isn't even your problem. Your problem is that anyone can have more then one account or character.. Hell your argument would apply to having more then one character on an account since that fits your definition of "accelerated acquisition of items"..
so only controlling one character and gaining the items for another 'X' characters by use of third party software is not accelerated? |
Bland Inquisitor
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
76
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 21:16:00 -
[119] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Bland Inquisitor wrote: Simple fact for you;
ISBoxer is a 3rd party macro program. It copies keystrokes and replicates them across multiple accounts simultaneously. The very justification of being able to charge for said service is that it gives an advantage to its consumers. So to argue it isn't macro software and it doesn't give you an advantage over other players, is to argue against the very justification of being able to charge real money for it.
But an even simpler fact for you: CCP have interpreted the EULA as it relates to ISBoxer and similar forms of multiboxing software and said it's ok in its current form. There's not much point arguing beyond that because CCP own the game and can rule on clauses of the EULA as they see fit. That's what I said, but then apparently that made it the same as slavery and child labour, somehow
Do not confuse context with contents. Laws are updated to keep in sync with the times, often what starts the process is public outcry. This is what this thread is. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
5743
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 21:18:00 -
[120] - Quote
Bland Inquisitor wrote: Do not confuse context with circumstance. Laws are updated to keep in sync with the times, often what starts the process is public outcry. This is what this thread is.
Ok, so what has changed between when CCP ruled Isboxer wasnt breaking EULA and now?
Id like to point out I dont like Isboxer for several reasons, but none of them are "because its illegal", when it definately isnt.
And morality is not something I let concern me "If someone doesn't appreciate your presence, make them appreciate your absence." - Anon. There is no Saviour but James 315 and Omir Sarakusa is his Prophet (PBUH) La ilaha illjames |
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