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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
38
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Posted - 2014.06.25 06:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
Its been brought up tangentally, but I have yet to see an actual thread proposing them. So here it is.
I propose the introduction of tech 3 battleships. Seriously.
I'm working on a set of subsystems and build costs that would put the material cost in the 1.5B range.
I would like help with ideas for subsystems, keeping in mind actually balancing them to fly.
So as a set of guidelines for things to stay somewhat reasonable:
- Not more than 22 slots, 19-20 if running a large or heavily bonused drone bay. A current NM has a 150% native damage bonus, and 21 slots, meaning this should not be entirely out of line with other "top tier" battleship hulls i.e. pirate and t2
- Not more than 12 effective weapons. 1 sentry/heavy = 1 turret = 1 launcher for this guideline.
- Full t2 resists should be the TOP end of resist tank native to the hull, rather than the bottom as it is with t3s.
- No jump bridges or cov-ops cloaks.
- Slots of a given type beyond 8 are wasted.
Suggested slot allocation per subsystem type:
- Propulsion 2
- Offensive 7
- Defensive 5
- Electronic 3
- Engineering 4
That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did. |
HiddenPorpoise
Under Dark Sins of our Fathers
239
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Posted - 2014.06.25 06:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
You're not the first.
Basically it comes down to this: average Gal cruiser; 30k tank 600dps, average proteus; 300k tank, 900 dps. Average Gal BS: 110k tank, 1200 dps. Figure out what happens there. |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
40
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Posted - 2014.06.25 07:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
HiddenPorpoise wrote:You're not the first.
Basically it comes down to this: average Gal cruiser; 30k tank 600dps, average proteus; 300k tank, 900 dps. Average Gal BS: 110k tank, 1200 dps. Figure out what happens there. Thus the focus on trying to balance them, w/ resist tank subs ending at full t2 resists and 2-3M sp on the line at high skills.
Other issues with this: Proteus has a much more dramatic slot profile than most gal cruisers, while the gal BS already has 8 lows, meaning attempts to stack subs for tank and raw DPS top out at the same number of slots. Proteus average is blinged out, while the others are sounding like t2 fits. More fair to compare blingy t2 and/or faction cruisers to proteus for power curves. Proteus is top of the heap by a large margin in PVP and posting impressive numbers.
That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did. |
Brutus Le'montac
section 18 trade
0
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Posted - 2014.06.25 07:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
Gallante Drone Decoder, offensive system: gives +2 Max drone control, + 20m3 drone bay and +50 drone bandwith, but takes 2 high slot gun point as trade off, this enables 3 gecko's basicly. or 7 medium drones max
gallante warp bubbel stabilizer, propulsion system makes your mwd immune to warp scrams, but limits the speed to 75% of max speed.
Gallante augmented repair transponder defensive system, increases local repair and incoming remote armor repair with 5% per level, however slotting this decreases your armor damage ressistance with 10% on all 4 damage types, after stacking penalty.
gallante Backup battery engineering system, grants +5% recharge per level on capacitor, deflects 10% of incoming neuts/vamps, however using a vamp/neut yourself is 10% less effective.
gallante boosted targeting sensor, electronic system, grants -5% locking time per level, but limits your active locks to 4 max.
thats what i can come up with for gallante, when at work will make some more for the other 3 races, but i do like the idea, so an +1 for you.
|
Luwc
Biohazard. WINMATAR.
152
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Posted - 2014.06.25 07:24:00 -
[5] - Quote
No
Why ? Balance
First think. Then post. http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2261
|
Posted - 2014.06.25 07:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
T3 battleships ... I don't believe it's possible for them to not be the most broken ships in the history of EVE.
They're the stuff of legends, and they should probably stay that way. |
Brutus Le'montac
section 18 trade
0
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Posted - 2014.06.25 07:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
caldari enhanced missle release coding, offensive system, reduces reload time on cruise/heavy missles and torpedo's with 5 seconds, grants +2% flight speed per level. but maxium loaded ammo reduces with 5 rounds per level
caldari emercengy thruster overload, propulsion system, boosts mwd/ab speed by 5% per level, but takes 2% more capacitor per level aswell.
caldari shield flux matrix, defensive system, grants + 15 shield recharge a second, but lowers total shield hp with 2% per level, after stacking penalty.
caldari power grid subroutines, engineering system, grants +5% powergrid per level, but increases inertia with 2% per level aswell.
caldari warp destabalizing sensor array, electronic system, grants +1 warp strenght on self and on your warp scrambler/disruptor, but reduces the range with 2 km.
lets see, minmatar and amar left :P |
Samillian
Angry Mustellid Overload Everything
568
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Posted - 2014.06.25 07:36:00 -
[8] - Quote
With the Recon, T3, Blops and cap rebalance yet to come this seems a bit premature.
On top of that considering the negative effect T3's had on cruiser use and the hints we have had about there rebalance I doubt very much that you would get the kind of ship your hoping for even should they be introduced. NBSI shall be the whole of the Law |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Ixtab.
1588
|
Posted - 2014.06.25 09:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
There is no place in eve for a T3 battleship in a combat role.
I would prefer to see a t3 industrial or a t3 frigate. +1 |
Auduin Samson
Do not disturb Sanctuary Pact
251
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Posted - 2014.06.25 12:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
There's a reason that "T3 Battleships" are often used as an example of hideously overpowering something... You just lost your ship The tears will fuel my spaceship Go quit Eve again
-Bane Nucleus-á |
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Tabyll Altol
Caldari Campers
4
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Posted - 2014.06.25 12:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
-1
often posted hopefully never going to be implemented.
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Egravant Alduin
republic fleet battle support
159
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Posted - 2014.06.25 13:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
Agree from the guys above about balance and I think marauders are fine tech 2 ships with bastion mode .The only tech 3 battleship I might liked and support would be something that would give something different than the usual 8 highs 8 meds 8 lows(max) .Maybe something totally different which would be able to have 16 high slots for example or extra unique slots different than the ussual we know high med and lows etc. Feel the wrath of the GECKO! |
elitatwo
Congregatio
247
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Posted - 2014.06.25 15:33:00 -
[13] - Quote
Hm.. let me think about this for a moment....
NO signature |
De'Veldrin
Black Serpent Technologies The Unthinkables
2373
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Posted - 2014.06.25 15:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
T3 cruisers can be built with the DPS and tank of a battleship. So T3 battleships would basically take a capital ship to take down - this is a terrible idea at the present time.
Once CCP has done a balance pass on T3s and (hopefully) brought them back into line with their cruiser brethren, then maybe it would be time to look at adding other T3 ship classes, but not until then. GÇ£SandboxGÇ¥ does not mean that you will succeed at anything you attempt; it means you can attempt anything you want to succeed at. One of the largest obstacles in the way of your success is other players. Schr+¦dinger's Hotdropper |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
40
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Posted - 2014.06.25 15:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
Folks, while t3 cruisers are currently broken, I am attempting to find ideas give them unique, powerful but not unbalanced roles, not turn them into 75/75/75/80 300k EHP with 4 TC, 2 sebo and 2k DPS combat monstrosities.
For example:
Caldari Advanced propulsion subsystem:
Hyperspatial dragnet:
7%/lvl warp speed
Role bonus: All sub-caps in a fleet warp use this ships warp speed if it is better than their own.
Max Velocity 94 m/sec inertia modifier (agility) 0.116 Warp Speed 1.8 AU/s base time to warp ~17s
Takes 3 levels to be roughly equivelent to a standard BS warp speed, and tops out at a native speed about equivalent to a single ascendency plant in a marauder, or 2 in a BS, with no sub BC benefits until you devote the entire pod to ascendency set. That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did. |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
40
|
Posted - 2014.06.25 15:50:00 -
[16] - Quote
Reserving for subsystem list That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did. |
Lokar Griman
Revenant Tactical
11
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Posted - 2014.06.25 15:52:00 -
[17] - Quote
as much as i loved to fly a 16 high solot 8 millislaunchers and 8 lasers boat , which would be cool ass hell like in somkind of other game or movie , sadly its only a dream sins, i don't see any use for t3 bs,cause of the prices and game mechanics and etc., then only ships ccp might add is 1 or 2 faction lines but thats about it . Now if they added somthnig new to the game like "system " where you can't use dreatnoughts but you can use somthnig between a battleship and dread, or lower and you can't pve in it then ,why the hell not. |
Lokar Griman
Revenant Tactical
11
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Posted - 2014.06.25 15:58:00 -
[18] - Quote
antother think to add is ccp should look carefuly how they balance the stuff cuase . fr exmaple sister of eve ship line especialy the nestor , who the f with brain would buy that for that price , plus the stats bonuese are ****: so bringing t3 down ( like some poseted before me) to the other curisers the ship perfomance has to have correct price tag or it be render fail and no use what so ever. |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
75
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Posted - 2014.06.25 15:58:00 -
[19] - Quote
HiddenPorpoise wrote:You're not the first.
Basically it comes down to this: average Gal cruiser; 30k tank 600dps, average proteus; 300k tank, 900 dps. Average Gal BS: 110k tank, 1200 dps. Figure out what happens there. Proteus tank is probably getting a nerf anyway when the T3 balance pass happens. |
Saelem Black
Savage Knights
5
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Posted - 2014.06.25 17:09:00 -
[20] - Quote
Consuela says, "No no. Mr. CCP no es home. No... No..."
But seriously, the devs have often commented thinly veiled statements to the effect of, "Despite their popularity, T3s were the worst ships we ever introduced."
Don't think they're going to add more T3s any time soon... or ever, really. |
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
40
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Posted - 2014.06.25 17:27:00 -
[21] - Quote
Saelem Black wrote:Consuela says, "No no. Mr. CCP no es home. No... No..."
But seriously, the devs have often commented thinly veiled statements to the effect of, "Despite their popularity, T3s were the worst ships we ever introduced."
Don't think they're going to add more T3s any time soon... or ever, really.
This is mostly due to the headaches of trying to balance something with 3,125 possible configurations of base sats, and then the modules which effect different aspects of the t3 differently based on subsystems. (number given is the absolute possible number of subsystem combinations for any single t3)
Of these, roughly 500 configurations are viable per t3. Of that massive number 625 being just possible nullified configs which aren't much used, and 625 are cov-ops, which are used mostly for moving stuff.
3 subsystems of each type yields a much more manageable 243 variations. With 2 weapon systems per race ( racial turrets for min/gal/amar + missiles for cal) and secondary (missiles for min+ amarr, drones for gal, hybrids for cal), this reduces the possible configurations to 81 subs for the secondary weapon type and 162 for the primary, or 81 and a tertiary or utility focused offensive sub system with its own 81 configurations.
This brings the deluge of data about possible configurations to a level that is only slightly higher than anything else in eve. That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did. |
J A Aloysiusz
Precision Strike Brigade Easily Excited
34
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Posted - 2014.06.25 18:41:00 -
[22] - Quote
how about we remove that silly SP loss, balance the T3 cruiser class properly, and work from there.
edit: also I'm wondering where the commentor above me came up with 3125, as there are 4 choices for each of the 5 subsystems... |
unidenify
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
92
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Posted - 2014.06.25 19:11:00 -
[23] - Quote
J A Aloysiusz wrote:how about we remove that silly SP loss, balance the T3 cruiser class properly, and work from there.
edit: also I'm wondering where the commentor above me came up with 3125, as there are 4 choices for each of the 5 subsystems... every T3 ship
5 different slot with 4 choice each so, math go like this 4 x 4 x 4 x 4 x 4 = 1,024
plus 4 different ship so, 1,024 x 4 = 4,096 possible combo over 4 different ship |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
504
|
Posted - 2014.06.25 19:17:00 -
[24] - Quote
I don't see what unique role T3 battleships would fill. Never mind the horrible balance implications of full tech 2 resists on something with a battleship sized HP pool and the fittings to easily fit BS sized tank mods and BS sized weapons.
-1 |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
40
|
Posted - 2014.06.25 20:24:00 -
[25] - Quote
J A Aloysiusz wrote:how about we remove that silly SP loss, balance the T3 cruiser class properly, and work from there.
edit: also I'm wondering where the commentor above me came up with 3125, as there are 4 choices for each of the 5 subsystems... I messed up my math, thinking it was 5 subs per type. fixing the math above now. That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did. |
HiddenPorpoise
Under Dark Sins of our Fathers
240
|
Posted - 2014.06.25 22:36:00 -
[26] - Quote
James Baboli wrote:Proteus average is blinged out, while the others are sounding like t2 fits.
T2 Proteus is 300k ehp and 900 dps. |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
40
|
Posted - 2014.06.26 06:25:00 -
[27] - Quote
HiddenPorpoise wrote:James Baboli wrote:Proteus average is blinged out, while the others are sounding like t2 fits.
T2 Proteus is 300k ehp and 900 dps. With or without slaves + boosts, as I cannot match these numbers without boosts and/or implants with skills 5 and a straight t2 fit. I can get one or the other fiarly quickly, but the two seem mutually exclusive without implants and/or boosts. That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did. |
Hairpins Blueprint
CBC Interstellar Fidelas Constans
49
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Posted - 2014.06.26 21:02:00 -
[28] - Quote
James Baboli wrote:Its been brought up tangentally, but I have yet to see an actual thread proposing them. So here it is. I propose the introduction of tech 3 battleships. Seriously. I'm working on a set of subsystems and build costs that would put the material cost in the 1.5B range. I would like help with ideas for subsystems, keeping in mind actually balancing them to fly. So as a set of guidelines for things to stay somewhat reasonable:
- Not more than 22 slots, 19-20 if running a large or heavily bonused drone bay. A current NM has a 150% native damage bonus, and 21 slots, meaning this should not be entirely out of line with other "top tier" battleship hulls i.e. pirate and t2
- Not more than 12 effective weapons. 1 sentry/heavy = 1 turret = 1 launcher for this guideline.
- Full t2 resists should be the TOP end of resist tank native to the hull, rather than the bottom as it is with t3s.
- No jump bridges or cov-ops cloaks.
- Slots of a given type beyond 8 are wasted.
Suggested slot allocation per subsystem type:
- Propulsion 2
- Offensive 7
- Defensive 5
- Electronic 3
- Engineering 4
Now, for the unfun parts:
- Require advanced subsystem skills which further require [race] [type] subsystem 5, and are 3x-4x skills and lost like current subsystem skills.
- Due to the greater strain of flying the still more complex systems involved in a t3 ship of this size, 2 random levels of skills are lost, potentially from the same skill.
- Some mechanism to make them less than totally broken with logi support will be necessary.
there was plan for them years ago, and the t3 frigates. But turned out they would IMBA and push other role ships out of the game. like faction battle ships etc.
And so CCp decided not to introduce them to the game THE END. and you will not see them, do not bother posting about them
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
40
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Posted - 2014.06.28 10:06:00 -
[29] - Quote
Theory crafting and attempts at balance started. googledocs for the project linked here. Fully designed subsystem submissions will be added as I can.
That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1737
|
Posted - 2014.06.28 11:05:00 -
[30] - Quote
J A Aloysiusz wrote:how about we remove that silly SP loss, balance the T3 cruiser class properly, and work from there.
The approach id take. Wouldnt even play with the idea of T3 battleships until we're clear on: what T3's do, how they do it, and where their power level compared to other ships should be.
At the moment we cant even get a consensus on any of the above. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
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