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acz lavoie
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.06.27 02:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi there
I am new to eve, wondering which kind of battleship (M or C) is better for lv4 missions in general?
If C is still better than M, what is the approximate ratio that how much C is better than M?
Thank you:) |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
955
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Posted - 2014.06.27 02:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
acz lavoie wrote:Hi there
I am new to eve, wondering which kind of battleship (M or C) is better for lv4 missions in general?
If C is still better than M, what is the approximate ratio that how much C is better than M?
Thank you:)
Huh?....
This is such a general question. To even attempt to answer more information is needed. Eve has quite a few battleships so I don't think one thread would cover all of them.
What race of ships are you looking at? Missiles, Drones, Guns?
Also if you're asking this I'm guessing you're new to Eve so probably a long way from flying one. |
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
318
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Posted - 2014.06.27 02:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
Rattlesnake.
It is better by about 10%
Problem is it fails everywhere else. It is not a top pick for incursions like other pirate ships. It takes more SP to get all L5 skill when maxing out the ship. It also makes you work harder in L4's than other ships to achieve top performance. What was once the lazy ship of choice is now the most effort of all L4 ships. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
955
|
Posted - 2014.06.27 03:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ireland VonVicious wrote:Rattlesnake.
It is better by about 10%
Problem is it fails everywhere else. It is not a top pick for incursions like other pirate ships. It takes more SP to get all L5 skill when maxing out the ship. It also makes you work harder in L4's than other ships to achieve top performance. What was once the lazy ship of choice is now the most effort of all L4 ships.
You can get into one in 5 days... Good news since the OP is 11 days old |
Nolak Ataru
Incursion Osprey Replacement Fund LLC
83
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Posted - 2014.06.27 03:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ireland VonVicious wrote:Rattlesnake.
It is better by about 10%
Problem is it fails everywhere else. It is not a top pick for incursions like other pirate ships. It takes more SP to get all L5 skill when maxing out the ship. It also makes you work harder in L4's than other ships to achieve top performance. What was once the lazy ship of choice is now the most effort of all L4 ships.
Rattlesnake for 100% at-the-keyboard attention during L4s.
Golem for it's sheer tankability and damage dealing. Torps to 44.5km. Tanks 2k+ dps.
This dominix for AFKing through L4s whilst doing other stuff.
Mach's still pretty good, especially with it's awesome warp buff. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
883
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Posted - 2014.06.27 05:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
Two comments:
1) As a new player getting obsessed with level IVs and plexing and accumulating enough SP to fly levels IVs and grinding up standing to qualify for level IVs is actually a bad thing. You are better off enjoying the game and doing other stuff.
2) The "best" level IV battleship for a low skill pilot with limited knowledge of EVE or missions and limited ISK is probably the standard (non Navy) Dominix as you can jump 100km away from the rats and kill them from a distance with sentry drones without much effort.
3) The "best" level IV battleship overall will be one of the four Marauders. Paladin/Vagur/Golem/Khronos. |
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
56
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Posted - 2014.06.27 07:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
Nolak Ataru wrote:This dominix for AFKing through L4s whilst doing other stuff.
Yeah, battleclinic does not disappoint, you will not get 88km on gardes.
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2114
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Posted - 2014.06.27 08:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote:Nolak Ataru wrote:This dominix for AFKing through L4s whilst doing other stuff. Yeah, battleclinic does not disappoint, you will not get 88km on gardes.
You used to before a) the Dominix bonus was halved and b) drone scope chips were fixed.
But not so much now, no. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2030
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Posted - 2014.06.27 08:46:00 -
[9] - Quote
yes.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
56
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Posted - 2014.06.27 11:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote:Barton Breau wrote:Nolak Ataru wrote:This dominix for AFKing through L4s whilst doing other stuff. Yeah, battleclinic does not disappoint, you will not get 88km on gardes. You used to before a) the Dominix bonus was halved and b) drone scope chips were fixed. But not so much now, no.
I would likely not mention it, if the fit would not be quite recently posted. |
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
883
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Posted - 2014.06.27 14:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote:Zhilia Mann wrote:Barton Breau wrote:Nolak Ataru wrote:This dominix for AFKing through L4s whilst doing other stuff. Yeah, battleclinic does not disappoint, you will not get 88km on gardes. You used to before a) the Dominix bonus was halved and b) drone scope chips were fixed. But not so much now, no. I would likely not mention it, if the fit would not be quite recently posted.
- The bonus dropped to 37.5% tracking and optimal at level V (it was 50%) so no nothing like halved. - no-one cares about scope chips - the omnis got a serious nerf in terms of optimal but falloff stayed good you also need scripts now - T2 sentries got a nerf but T1 and faction sentries at lower skills got a big buff
End result ... the people using T2 garde at 80 -90km now have a few issues HOWEVER sniping with bouncers still works well. You do have to shoot with bouncers at 100-120 km rather than 150km but 150 km was silly anyway. People with low skills now do more damage.
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Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
506
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Posted - 2014.06.27 14:36:00 -
[12] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:- T2 sentries got a nerf but T1 and faction sentries at lower skills got a big buff I'm sorry, but no. T1 and faction got better yes. But by no means were T2 nerfed. In fact they do more damage than they used to. |
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
56
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Posted - 2014.06.28 09:49:00 -
[13] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Barton Breau wrote:Zhilia Mann wrote:Barton Breau wrote:Nolak Ataru wrote:This dominix for AFKing through L4s whilst doing other stuff. Yeah, battleclinic does not disappoint, you will not get 88km on gardes. You used to before a) the Dominix bonus was halved and b) drone scope chips were fixed. But not so much now, no. I would likely not mention it, if the fit would not be quite recently posted. - The bonus dropped to 37.5% tracking and optimal at level V (it was 50%) so no nothing like halved. - no-one cares about scope chips - the omnis got a serious nerf in terms of optimal but falloff stayed good you also need scripts now - T2 sentries got a nerf but T1 and faction sentries at lower skills got a big buff End result ... the people using T2 garde at 80 -90km now have a few issues HOWEVER sniping with bouncers still works well. You do have to shoot with bouncers at 100-120 km rather than 150km but 150 km was silly anyway. People with low skills now do more damage.
Not everyone runs angels exclusively, you know...
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Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
56
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Posted - 2014.06.28 09:52:00 -
[14] - Quote
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:Hasikan Miallok wrote:- T2 sentries got a nerf but T1 and faction sentries at lower skills got a big buff I'm sorry, but no. T1 and faction got better yes. But by no means were T2 nerfed. In fact they do more damage than they used to.
The net gain is basically zero for T2, wardens and curators are better a bit, gardes and bouncers got nerfed a bit.
I guess we have to thank the spreadsheet developers at ccp for that, coz, you know, 850dps gardes would be OP, so they have to have the same dps with 4x navy dda as they had before with ddaII. |
Bland Inquisitor
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
81
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Posted - 2014.06.28 11:33:00 -
[15] - Quote
acz lavoie wrote:Hi there
I am new to eve, wondering which kind of battleship (M or C) is better for lv4 missions in general?
If C is still better than M, what is the approximate ratio that how much C is better than M?
Thank you:)
Depends where you are running missions really |
0rch1d
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
19
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Posted - 2014.06.28 15:28:00 -
[16] - Quote
Depends what you're after . . . ISK/hour, ISK/effort, one or the other or a bit of both? Are you prepared to micromanage your weapons systems, or would you rather have a more laid back experience?
The "best" ship, objectively and *all else being equal* (which is almost never the case), is whatever will let you put as much dps on target(s) in as little time as possible - that is, a "time (it takes) to kill" calculation. But this ability is, in turn, modified by a number of factors, some of the more salient ones being quite personal to your own enjoyment and expectations. |
Marcus Walkuris
Aww yeahhh
102
|
Posted - 2014.06.29 12:09:00 -
[17] - Quote
Best for lvl4 is simple, depending on multibox or singlebox. Singlebox I assume is what you're after.
Kronos, and paladin. Those 2 ships should see to all your needs. Both are armor tanked, armor tanking is a little better then shields imho. But for really short missions you should always have a HAC ready. I would tell you to progress like this, domi/ishtar. Kronos, paladin. I've ran the numbers quite a bit and this should be the highest dps at the lowest micro-management, and ease of use translates directly into dps. Not to mention gunnery has the least amount of unfavorable game-mechanics. Rather not go through why missiles and drones are filled with fail, but if you want to see look at my post before this. |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
508
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Posted - 2014.06.29 13:53:00 -
[18] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote:The net gain is basically zero for T2, wardens and curators are better a bit, gardes and bouncers got nerfed a bit.
I guess we have to thank the spreadsheet developers at ccp for that, coz, you know, 850dps gardes would be OP, so they have to have the same dps with 4x navy dda as they had before with ddaII. The ones that lost a bit of raw DPS gained additional projection and/or application. They all got buffed. |
Marcus Walkuris
Aww yeahhh
102
|
Posted - 2014.06.29 14:19:00 -
[19] - Quote
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote: The ones that lost a bit of raw DPS gained additional projection and/or application. They all got buffed.
Imho, that is a very EFT-stance. Drones are now a huge SP sink, and have increased micromanaging needs. In fact this micromanaging paired with the imho "stupid" long cycle time of "omni directional tracking link" add up to a hefty applied dps loss. I think you're just talking about this last change, but with the other changes to drone boats which can't be ignored... Huge nerf. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
967
|
Posted - 2014.06.29 14:38:00 -
[20] - Quote
Marcus Walkuris wrote:Antillie Sa'Kan wrote: The ones that lost a bit of raw DPS gained additional projection and/or application. They all got buffed. Imho, that is a very EFT-stance. Drones are now a huge SP sink, and have increased micromanaging needs. In fact this micromanaging paired with the imho "stupid" long cycle time of "omni directional tracking link" add up to a hefty applied dps loss. I think you're just talking about this last change, but with the other changes to drone boats which can't be ignored... Huge nerf.
You said drones are now a huge SP sink? Is this something new? I've been playing for over four years and the only major SP change I can think of was nerfing the Drone Interfacing skill. I just woke up so I could be forgetting something.
Yeah I'm not happy with many of the drone nerfs. Between nerfing sentry drones (not the last change) to nerfing omnis, aggro changes and many others. Now there have been some buffs like to T1 sentry drones but that's just making new player changes in response to the "Eve is too hard" crowd.
Drones are still good but at least in PVE they're not nearly as useful as they once were. Sentry drones still work but anything else is close range only.
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Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
88
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Posted - 2014.06.29 14:42:00 -
[21] - Quote
Marcus Walkuris wrote:Antillie Sa'Kan wrote: The ones that lost a bit of raw DPS gained additional projection and/or application. They all got buffed. Imho, that is a very EFT-stance. Drones are now a huge SP sink, and have increased micromanaging needs. In fact this micromanaging paired with the imho "stupid" long cycle time of "omni directional tracking link" add up to a hefty applied dps loss. I think you're just talking about this last change, but with the other changes to drone boats which can't be ignored... Huge nerf. Drones are not a SP sink because no matter what race you fly, you needed to train drones sooner or later. |
Marcus Walkuris
Aww yeahhh
102
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Posted - 2014.06.29 16:26:00 -
[22] - Quote
No drones being an SP sink isn't new. But it never bothered me because out of 4 empires 3 have dedicated drone hulls, and drones are almost ALWAYS a secondary dps system. So it really isn't a bad SP investment in my book. But now with empire specific drone skills covering sentry drone damage. We see nerf in damage and a MASSIVE SP sink of 4 separate 5x skills. I've felt missile skills need a copmlete overhaul for a long time now, but now drones are looking a little weird too. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
967
|
Posted - 2014.06.29 16:48:00 -
[23] - Quote
Marcus Walkuris wrote:No drones being an SP sink isn't new. But it never bothered me because out of 4 empires 3 have dedicated drone hulls, and drones are almost ALWAYS a secondary dps system. So it really isn't a bad SP investment in my book. But now with empire specific drone skills covering sentry drone damage. We see nerf in damage and a MASSIVE SP sink of 4 separate 5x skills. I've felt missile skills need a copmlete overhaul for a long time now, but now drones are looking a little weird too.
Okay so they have one specialization skill that covers all drones for that race? Why not make it like gunnery and have one specialization for each size? Amarr Light drone specialization, Amarr Medium drone specialization, Amarr Heavy drone specialization, Amarr Sentry drone specialization.
I understand you're not happy that they now added the specialization skill to Sentry drones but it was the oddball out.. |
Marcus Walkuris
Aww yeahhh
102
|
Posted - 2014.06.29 17:14:00 -
[24] - Quote
Yeah having it structured more like gunnery wouldn't suck, but it would remove flavor and diversity. It really doesn't need it, it needs to just not be cross-faction and then faction based again. OR you might as well see Caldari/etc. missile specialization. I'd agree with sentries, if it wasn't for the fact drones just aren't turrets.
Turrets don't suffer from being deployed and stationary (which means you need to be near stationary), having travel time, 1 second server response damage delays, poor responses to " return to drone-bay", being targeted/killed/webbed. In general being a pain in the ass click-fest to get the gimped equivalent of, click, boom. The Ishtar alone doesn't make up for "drones", not putting words in your mouth. Just saying. There are plenty of drawbacks to drones making up for their virtues and specific ships that make EvE's children wet the bed. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
886
|
Posted - 2014.06.30 01:30:00 -
[25] - Quote
Marcus Walkuris wrote:No, drones being an SP sink isn't new. But it never bothered me because out of 4 empires 3 have dedicated drone hulls, and drones are almost ALWAYS a secondary dps system. So it really isn't a bad SP investment in my book. But now with empire specific drone skills covering sentry drone damage. We see nerf in damage and a MASSIVE SP sink of 4 separate 5x skills. I've felt missile skills need a complete overhaul for a long time now, but now drones are looking a little weird too.
The current strategy seems to be close the gap between new players and vets whilst at the same time maintaining the mystique of EVE being a "hardcore game with big learning curve".
Iit would seem a lot of new players want the ability to be awesome at EVE instantly whilst still getting street cred for playing a supposedly hardcore game. If you look at most of the recent changes they all mainly seems to involve making low SP players more effective quicker - but making the final training to get "perfect" skills more onerous by adding new skills at the top end but making them less effective.
The result with drones is that new players can get into a T1 Domi and be reasonable effective a lot faster than before but it actually takes longer and is far harder to get optimal skills. |
Marcus Walkuris
Aww yeahhh
102
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Posted - 2014.07.02 07:41:00 -
[26] - Quote
I agree with that analogy. I advize newbies to go for a dominix and branch out into gunnery based BS. But lately I'm leaning more and more to telling people to go straight up gunnery and train drones as far as medium drones. With the SP sink that has become sentry drones, I believe its faster to go all the way to a marauder then to really flesh out drones. The only reason I still recommend a dominix is because sentries+mjd and script juggling make for a decent set of training wheels. Due to the more then usual range. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
2814
|
Posted - 2014.07.02 16:37:00 -
[27] - Quote
Ireland VonVicious wrote:Rattlesnake.
It is better by about 10%
Problem is it fails everywhere else. It is not a top pick for incursions like other pirate ships. It takes more SP to get all L5 skill when maxing out the ship. It also makes you work harder in L4's than other ships to achieve top performance. What was once the lazy ship of choice is now the most effort of all L4 ships. Rattlesnake does have a good afk mode: Fly a single Gecko. It can only fly one, but it has a huge bonus to that one. I commonly see hits of 1000 to 2000 points from it. And its EHP is so high (due to the bonus) that it can draw full room aggro, and still take out the room. (Although usually its a good idea to pull it back in.) With two Omnis with tracking scripts it can even take out the frigs.
Launch the Gecko, sit back and watch the explosions. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
89
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Posted - 2014.07.02 17:05:00 -
[28] - Quote
IIshira wrote:Marcus Walkuris wrote:Antillie Sa'Kan wrote: The ones that lost a bit of raw DPS gained additional projection and/or application. They all got buffed. Imho, that is a very EFT-stance. Drones are now a huge SP sink, and have increased micromanaging needs. In fact this micromanaging paired with the imho "stupid" long cycle time of "omni directional tracking link" add up to a hefty applied dps loss. I think you're just talking about this last change, but with the other changes to drone boats which can't be ignored... Huge nerf. You said drones are now a huge SP sink? Is this something new? I've been playing for over four years and the only major SP change I can think of was nerfing the Drone Interfacing skill. I just woke up so I could be forgetting something. Yeah I'm not happy with many of the drone nerfs. Between nerfing sentry drones (not the last change) to nerfing omnis, aggro changes and many others. Now there have been some buffs like to T1 sentry drones but that's just making new player changes in response to the "Eve is too hard" crowd. Drones are still good but at least in PVE they're not nearly as useful as they once were. Sentry drones still work but anything else is close range only. I still can't believe CCP didn't reduce the rank of Drone Interfacing. The skill is now less important and powerful than it used to be, it should have a reduced amount of training required to max it out, with the SP difference being refunded.
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Marcus Walkuris
Aww yeahhh
102
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Posted - 2014.07.02 19:55:00 -
[29] - Quote
Ohh I can :D. All the talk of linear progression to me seemed no more then a really lame excuse for added SP sinks. And I don't get why it has to be all "slip it into your drink" kind of way about it. But I've always been a lone and ridiculed voice on that topic, I hated the BC/desto changes and most Skill changes after. I liked battlecruisers as a platform to find out how far you wanted to invest into a specific weapon system and a soft cross-train. \apparently it is deemed necessary to add SP sinks for the general health of EvE. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
983
|
Posted - 2014.07.02 20:06:00 -
[30] - Quote
Marcus Walkuris wrote:apparently it is deemed necessary to add SP sinks for the general health of EvE. Yes it is. . Skill point sinks keep people subscribing. If Eve wasn't about progression through skill point sinks I would have quit playing two weeks after I started.
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