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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.06.23 11:51:00 -
[1]
I would like to get some comments on how a good ransom system could be implemented in the game. The system would make sure that the victim is safe if he pays the ransom.
My suggestion is a GUI window, where the victim gets the ransom demand. In this window he can choose to pay it or not. If he pays, all target locks on him are released and he cant be targeted or target anyone for a specified time. This makes him free to warp off. If he doesnt, he can be targeted again after the specified time.
I fully understand if some of you feel there is no need for this system. You want to have the freedom to be able to ransom and then kill the target afterwards if you want to. Im asking you if you think its worth giving up this freedom for the advantage of having more people pay the ransom.
Shoot.
--- The Eve Wiki Community Portal | Eve Tribune |
BAltPoster
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Posted - 2006.06.23 11:53:00 -
[2]
Bang! |
Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.06.23 11:54:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 23/06/2006 11:54:40
Hmmmm... what happens when 5 piwets of different groups click a ransom button on the same person.
1. Does he get 5 ransom spam dialog boxes?
2. Pays 1 group but doesnt pay 4 other groups, what happens?
Good idea though but really need more thoughts. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
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Wrangilydooly
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Posted - 2006.06.23 11:54:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Jim McGregor If he pays, all target locks on him are released and he cant be targeted or target anyone for a specified time. This makes him free to warp off. If he doesnt, he can be targeted again after the specified time.
Seems exploitable, if you have a friend do the ransom thing on you, you are more or less invulnerable for some time.
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Cheyenne Shadowborn
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Posted - 2006.06.23 11:57:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
I would like to get some comments on how a good ransom system could be implemented in the game. The system would make sure that the victim is safe if he pays the ransom.
My suggestion is a GUI window, where the victim gets the ransom demand. In this window he can choose to pay it or not. If he pays, all target locks on him are released and he cant be targeted or target anyone for a specified time. This makes him free to warp off. If he doesnt, he can be targeted again after the specified time.
I fully understand if some of you feel there is no need for this system. You want to have the freedom to be able to ransom and then kill the target afterwards if you want to. Im asking you if you think its worth giving up this freedom for the advantage of having more people pay the ransom.
Shoot.
Great. Then my alts can ransom me for 1 buck and I can't be targeted anymore. Neat :)
I'd rather advocate the ransom money receiver gets flagged for x hours / days and if he kills a player he's flagged towards as a ransom receiver in an hostile act originating with the ransomer, then the ransom gets refunded. But that also becomes ambigous in times of war decs.
Admittedly I haven't thought that through to its fullest either. -----------------------------------------------------
"At least freelancer keeps the physics realistic."
-- SINKFIST |
James Duar
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Posted - 2006.06.23 11:57:00 -
[6]
Hm...I think it would be nice if there was an honorable ransom system for optional use. Put the onus on pirates to keep their word, the system lets you tie the scrambler/webber activity to the receipt of a specific ISK amount (or greater) and to shut down re-targeting for a set amount of time (made known to the target).
Of course, a pirate wouldn't have to use this - he could say - pay up now and I won't kill you, you really have no choice in the matter.
--- Encrypted Client Side Bookmarks! Raise YOUR voice to CCP. Let's end slow copy times and bookmark lag for good! |
Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.06.23 11:58:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Wrangilydooly
Originally by: Jim McGregor If he pays, all target locks on him are released and he cant be targeted or target anyone for a specified time. This makes him free to warp off. If he doesnt, he can be targeted again after the specified time.
Seems exploitable, if you have a friend do the ransom thing on you, you are more or less invulnerable for some time.
Good point. I was also considering making the GUI window make the victim pick a location where he will be warped when he pays the ransom. But i figured this could be exploited by bumping him so he never gets into warp.
So the actual mechanisms for making sure the victim is safe is up for ideas. --- The Eve Wiki Community Portal | Eve Tribune |
Cheyenne Shadowborn
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Posted - 2006.06.23 12:01:00 -
[8]
Originally by: James Duar Encrypted Client Side Bookmarks! Raise YOUR voice to CCP. Let's end slow copy times and bookmark lag for good!
Now THAT'S a good idea. But then I want on demand upload capability or a tool to move the stuff easily to another box. Switching computers and having all contacts, bm's and stuff in one folder is soooooo eighties. (Plus, why the FOLDERS are client-side is totally beyond me) -----------------------------------------------------
"At least freelancer keeps the physics realistic."
-- SINKFIST |
Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.06.23 12:02:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 23/06/2006 11:54:40
Hmmmm... what happens when 5 piwets of different groups click a ransom button on the same person.
1. Does he get 5 ransom spam dialog boxes?
2. Pays 1 group but doesnt pay 4 other groups, what happens?
Good idea though but really need more thoughts.
1. I think it would be best if only the first ransom demand created the dialog box, and the rest of the guys trying to ransom him would get a message that the victim is currently being ransomed by X (ransomer).
2. When he pays the first guy, the mechanisms for creating safe passage springs into place. So the other groups will not be able to ransom him. How to keep him safe is up for debate though. Something that isnt exploitable. --- The Eve Wiki Community Portal | Eve Tribune |
Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.06.23 12:04:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 23/06/2006 12:04:05
Originally by: James Duar Hm...I think it would be nice if there was an honorable ransom system for optional use. Put the onus on pirates to keep their word, the system lets you tie the scrambler/webber activity to the receipt of a specific ISK amount (or greater) and to shut down re-targeting for a set amount of time (made known to the target).
Of course, a pirate wouldn't have to use this - he could say - pay up now and I won't kill you, you really have no choice in the matter.
Yes, it would be optional to use, since there are many situations where you cant really be expected to ransom someone, for example when you are busy trying to survive his friends. --- The Eve Wiki Community Portal | Eve Tribune |
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.06.23 12:05:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 23/06/2006 11:54:40
Hmmmm... what happens when 5 piwets of different groups click a ransom button on the same person.
1. Does he get 5 ransom spam dialog boxes?
2. Pays 1 group but doesnt pay 4 other groups, what happens?
Good idea though but really need more thoughts.
1. I think it would be best if only the first ransom demand created the dialog box, and the rest of the guys trying to ransom him would get a message that the victim is currently being ransomed by X (ransomer).
2. When he pays the first guy, the mechanisms for creating safe passage springs into place. So the other groups will not be able to ransom him. How to keep him safe is up for debate though. Something that isnt exploitable.
So, some pirates who like to ransom can ransom nicely. What about killers or people who want revenge from former pirates? E.g. ransom and then kill?
/me remembers revenge is a dish best served cold. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
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BustyBounty
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Posted - 2006.06.23 12:09:00 -
[12]
possibly could do it so the people who recieve the ransom cant activate any modules for 20seconds? they take the risk if it was a trap and they get owned then they cant blame anyone but there self, but i guess that might just mean people wouldnt ransom. who would control how much is paid? 25% of ships mineral value or what?
i really cant see many people using it though , most people i know that are seen as pirates dont do it for profit
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.06.23 12:10:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
So, some pirates who like to ransom can ransom nicely. What about killers or people who want revenge from former pirates? E.g. ransom and then kill?
Well, the system would be designed to prevent pirates from killing the victim if he pays the ransom. So ransom + revenge would be a no-no if they choose to use the game ransom feature. Of course using it would be optional, so you can still ransom and kill but then by using the conventional chat method.
--- The Eve Wiki Community Portal | Eve Tribune |
Trevedian
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Posted - 2006.06.23 12:13:00 -
[14]
This is the best idea since Stingy CEO's IPO idea... (NOT!)
I have been tcollecting ransoms for 3 years and have never dishonored one... Pirates that don't honor them are nubs that don't really grasp what they are doing...
Sex0r > you're bounty turns me on.. you seem like the kind of amarrian to dominate me
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.06.23 12:14:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Jim McGregor I fully understand if some of you feel there is no need for this system. You want to have the freedom to be able to ransom and then kill the target afterwards if you want to. Im asking you if you think its worth giving up this freedom for the advantage of having more people pay the ransom.
I would never do it, but I think its a part of eve. Reducing player freedom is never a good thing.
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.06.23 12:14:00 -
[16]
How about this?
I fly a freighter into 0.0. My alt follows me. Alt jumps and SSed. Freighter follows. Alt ransoms me. I accept and I am invul or warp to somewhere. I can easily avoid gate camps TBH. Please dont make 0.0 warfare any crap than it already is. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.06.23 12:15:00 -
[17]
Originally by: BustyBounty
who would control how much is paid? 25% of ships mineral value or what?
The pirate would ask for a ransom amount by typing it into the dialog box when he is using the game ransom feature. The victim can choose to pay it or not.
And I do think alot of people would use this feature. It would develop piracy as a profession in the game, and it would separate killers from pirates. Other neat stuff is having a ransom board where people could post ransoms that were payed, much like the current killboards. Basicly for bragging rights. --- The Eve Wiki Community Portal | Eve Tribune |
Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.06.23 12:23:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 23/06/2006 12:24:00
Originally by: HippoKing
I would never do it, but I think its a part of eve. Reducing player freedom is never a good thing.
I know how you feel. Putting alot of s-a-f-e-guards everywhere in this game would simply not make it Eve anymore. But I think this idea doesnt severly hurt the freedom, and perhaps it could develop piracy as a real profession in the game. It would be possible to make quite a lot of iskies if people would pay every ransom. The reason alot of them dont pay it today is basicly because they either hate pirates, the ransom is too high, or they dont trust the pirate will let them go afterwards.
Edit: Avoided the profanity filter to make it understandable. --- The Eve Wiki Community Portal | Eve Tribune |
Henry Loenwind
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Posted - 2006.06.23 12:25:00 -
[19]
Why not turn the logic around? Instead of preventing the kill after the ransom has been paid, undo the payment if the victim is killed within 5 minutes. (Expire counter instantly on jumping, docking and logging.)
So you would pay for a free passage. If there is a third party who kills the victim, bad luck for the original pirate, that's life. (He should have escorted his victim to the gate...)
(Mmmhh, that way even a "bodyguard" system could be implemented. Just make the timer and jump/dock options editable values.)
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.06.23 12:28:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire How about this?
I fly a freighter into 0.0. My alt follows me. Alt jumps and SSed. Freighter follows. Alt ransoms me. I accept and I am invul or warp to somewhere. I can easily avoid gate camps TBH. Please dont make 0.0 warfare any crap than it already is.
I agree, stuff like this is good to mention because nobody wants a exploitable system for this. Like i said before, I had an idea of making the guy being ransomed pick a location (in the ransom dialog box) where he would automaticly be warped when he pays the ransom. System would need to make sure he cant be bumped or prevented from entering warp though. --- The Eve Wiki Community Portal | Eve Tribune |
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.06.23 12:31:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Henry Loenwind Why not turn the logic around? Instead of preventing the kill after the ransom has been paid, undo the payment if the victim is killed within 5 minutes. (Expire counter instantly on jumping, docking and logging.)
So you would pay for a free passage. If there is a third party who kills the victim, bad luck for the original pirate, that's life. (He should have escorted his victim to the gate...)
(Mmmhh, that way even a "bodyguard" system could be implemented. Just make the timer and jump/dock options editable values.)
The victim would proceed to dock, change ship and get a friend to blow him up to get his money back. --- The Eve Wiki Community Portal | Eve Tribune |
Henry Loenwind
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Posted - 2006.06.23 12:40:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Henry Loenwind on 23/06/2006 12:40:41
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Henry Loenwind (Expire counter instantly on jumping, docking and logging.)
The victim would proceed to dock, change ship and get a friend to blow him up to get his money back.
That's why I wrote that (see above quote). It would be too easy to exploit without that.
I'd think, ejecting should also expire the counter.
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.06.23 12:44:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Henry Loenwind Edited by: Henry Loenwind on 23/06/2006 12:40:41
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Henry Loenwind (Expire counter instantly on jumping, docking and logging.)
The victim would proceed to dock, change ship and get a friend to blow him up to get his money back.
That's why I wrote that (see above quote). It would be too easy to exploit without that.
I'd think, ejecting should also expire the counter.
You're right, I missed that part.
Sounds like a good idea unless someone comes up with a way to exploit it later in this thread. --- The Eve Wiki Community Portal | Eve Tribune |
Kilosher Silgen
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Posted - 2006.06.23 12:45:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Kilosher Silgen on 23/06/2006 12:46:04 Also the dialog box could be used to slow the ransomee down since it takes the focus away from the UI controls so they would have to close down the dialog box first before being able to warp or retaliate giving more time for the pirate's mates to come and join in.
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.06.23 12:49:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Kilosher Silgen Also the dialog box could be used to slow the ransomee down since it takes the focus away from the UI controls so they would have to close down the dialog box first before being able to warp or retaliate.
Yeah, its basicly the same thing with gang invites during fights. But then again, today people starts a conversation with the victim during the fight to ransom him. So it would just be the ransom window instead of the convo window popping up if this system was implemented.
--- The Eve Wiki Community Portal | Eve Tribune |
Vaslav Tchitcherine
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Posted - 2006.06.23 12:57:00 -
[26]
I disapprove of solutions that totally break RP (though obviously there are quite a few of those around Eve already). In RL paying a ransom doesn't mean the kidnappers won't kill the hostage anyway.
That being said if the new contract system is granular enough something could be done where the money is held in escrow until the scrambler(s) is/are deactivated, or whatever. I doubt it's feasible, however.
Just don't get caught. And if you do, don't pay unless they're from a "reputable" pirate corp.
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Dinique
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Posted - 2006.06.23 13:02:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
I would like to get some comments on how a good ransom system could be implemented in the game. The system would make sure that the victim is safe if he pays the ransom.
A system whereby the ransom transaction is facilitated making it easier to transfer the right amount quickly is a good idea.
A system that guarentees 'honest' piracy isnt. I thought you said the game needs bad guys? You are eliminating one kind of bad guy, in favour of another kind that you like better. _____
There's so many different worlds So many different suns And we have just one world But we live in different ones
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.06.23 13:03:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Vaslav Tchitcherine .
Just don't get caught. And if you do, don't pay unless they're from a "reputable" pirate corp.
Problem with going only by reputation is that alot of players dont have any idea what corporations are honoring ransoms and which are not. I would trust Veto, and thats about it.
This is exacly why i think a ransoming system would be so cool. The victim would not have to trust the pirate (we all know trust is a rare thing in this game).
--- The Eve Wiki Community Portal | Eve Tribune |
Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2006.06.23 13:05:00 -
[29]
Forget that!
Your idea is exploitable!
Someone said something about You get ransomed, you pay, if pirate destroy your ship within x time you get your ISK back. That is the only way to go tbh if there were such a system ever implented. Of course the target could be ransomed at the next gate by another person and has to pay again..
13 -_- |
Eilene Fernite
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Posted - 2006.06.23 13:08:00 -
[30]
While it sounds like a nice thing, even if you could make it exploit free, I still don't like it.
Eve is about the freedom to do what you want. If you want to ransom and then kill anyway, that's up to you. If you don't want to ransom and just blow stuff up, that's up to you. If you want to ransom and keep your word, that's up to you. If you want to suicide gank in empire, that's up to you. The list goes on.
A lot of Eve is based on basic trust. IPOs, hiring Mercs, accepting a 1v1, and ofcourse paying a ransom. If you start taking away peoples abilities to do business based on some sort of trust but in stead protect them with game mechanics, you also take away a lot of the freedom you get in Eve.
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