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A'Tolkar
Carlson's Raiders
12
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Posted - 2014.06.30 18:57:00 -
[1] - Quote
Honestly, does anyone huff gas in anything other than a Venture or a Prospect? I thought not. Granted, I would still train the skill to level 5 just to use T2 gas harvesters. But the +1 gas harvester/level? Sounds a bit antiquated now? I remember putting five on a Moa and jet-canning my gas. Just not necessary now.
How about +5% yield/level? And if not that, how about -5% cycle duration/level. After all, Mining doesn't give you the ability to fit one more Miner I per level. It gives +5% yield. The number of Miner I one can fit are limited to ship size: turret hardpoints, CPU and PG. It should be the same for Gas Cloud Harvesters. And if there is some worry about someone putting 8 gas cloud harvester II's on a Battleship (I say let them) and that is a bad idea, then make it so they can only be fitted onto Mining Frigates (Venture/Prospect). |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
605
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Posted - 2014.06.30 19:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
Yield is not really a good bonus. 25% of 40 m-¦ is only 50 m-¦ yield, not exactly thrilling. Less cycle time, however, would be absolutely awesome. Every second and, adding up, minute that you don't need to spend in the gas cloud is a minute more which you can spend on your POS, tinkering with the gas silos and reactors. |
A'Tolkar
Carlson's Raiders
15
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Posted - 2014.06.30 20:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Yield is not really a good bonus. 25% of 40 m-¦ is only 50 m-¦ yield, not exactly thrilling. Less cycle time, however, would be absolutely awesome. Every second and, adding up, minute that you don't need to spend in the gas cloud is a minute more which you can spend on your POS, tinkering with the gas silos and reactors.
You're right. Just checked out gas cloud harvester II. 20 m^3. A 25% bonus would be 25 m^3. So unless the cloud is in units of 5 m^3 (and some are units of 10 m^3) AND the skill is level 5, there is no bonus at all. Better off with a cycle time decrease. |
Nariya Kentaya
Phoenix funds
1407
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Posted - 2014.06.30 23:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Yield is not really a good bonus. 25% of 40 m-¦ is only 50 m-¦ yield, not exactly thrilling. Less cycle time, however, would be absolutely awesome. Every second and, adding up, minute that you don't need to spend in the gas cloud is a minute more which you can spend on your POS, tinkering with the gas silos and reactors. Or a minute more you have to be GTFO before the local residents finally decide to open their d-scan and find out someone is eating all their precious C5/6 gas sites XD |
Pearl Canopus
20
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Posted - 2014.07.03 14:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
+1 for harmonizing skill in line to other mining/harvesting skills.
Means reducing cycle time or activating power or anything else. T2-harvester needs Level IV (comparable to Mining IV for Miner II and Strip Miner). T2-"strip" harvester needs Level V.
So Ice Harvesting skill would need a harmonization too in line to mining skill too. |
Fer'isam K'ahn
None Of One
182
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Posted - 2014.07.03 15:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
Pearl Canopus wrote:+1 for harmonizing skill in line to other mining/harvesting skills.
Means reducing cycle time or activating power or anything else. T2-harvester needs Level IV (comparable to Mining IV for Miner II and Strip Miner). T2-"strip" harvester needs Level V.
So Ice Harvesting skill would need a harmonization too in line to mining skill too. I would also be ok with all skills to 5 for T2, like some other skills, youa re msotly all-in with thsoe mods anyway.
Still +1 for the change of the gas harvesting skill. Makes not much sense as it is. I remember when I trained for the T2s that I tried all kinds of ships, and none came close to the venture and that has 2 turrets max. Useless skill value as it is. Are you sure your issues aren't elsewhere ?! |
Lothros Andastar
The Minutemen The Bastion
133
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Posted - 2014.07.03 15:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
Try mining exploding gas in a Venture. I'll wait. |
Bohneik Itohn
Amarrian Salvage Gnomes and Associates
452
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Posted - 2014.07.03 15:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
Decreased cycle time seems reasonable. Ninja gas miners provide plenty of entertainment in WH's, whether you're keeping an eye out for them or you are one today. This would encourage that behavior. Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!-á - Freyya
Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help. |
RoAnnon
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
340
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Posted - 2014.07.03 20:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
+1 I support this idea So, you're a bounty hunter. No, that ain't it at all. Then what are you? I'm a bounty hunter. |
Pearl Canopus
20
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Posted - 2014.07.04 08:52:00 -
[10] - Quote
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:I would also be ok with all skills to 5 for T2, like some other skills, you are mostly all-in with those mods anyway. Yes, sure. If there are no further dependencies on the skill level 5, it might be the T2-level instead.
But mainly the mining/harvesting skills need to get harmonized. Right now it's not self-explanatory.
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epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 RETURN MINING INC. Illusion of Solitude
817
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Posted - 2014.07.04 10:21:00 -
[11] - Quote
Excellent suggestion, bonus to cycle time is definately smart. Level 4 for t2 makes good sense, level v to milk that last bit of efficiency, some will, some won't, but nice to have the option.
+1
Ccp put it in place for the next patch please. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Saint Germain
Sekundu
20
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Posted - 2014.07.05 08:16:00 -
[12] - Quote
And does the skill need to be so expensive either/? |
Arronicus
Caldari Navy Reconnaissance
1081
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Posted - 2014.07.05 08:25:00 -
[13] - Quote
A'Tolkar wrote:Honestly, does anyone huff gas in anything other than a Venture or a Prospect? .
Yes.
There is more to gas harvesting than just wormhole space. Neglecting to consider that when crying for a revamp is ignorant.
For mining nullsec gasclouds with more than 2-3 ships present, a battlecruiser or battleship is required. I personally liked using hurricanes, due to the size of cargo, though something tankier is preferable when running many characters at once gas mining.
The proposed change to only allow ventures and prospects to mine gas would be a HUGE nerf to combat drug producers, without an accompanying gas cloud explosion damage resistance bonus on those respective ships, which in itself would then make the clouds pointless of having an explosion in the first place.
Variety and options are better than forcing everyone to use 2 particular ships, when the system works just fine now. |
Saint Germain
Sekundu
20
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Posted - 2014.07.05 08:39:00 -
[14] - Quote
Arronicus wrote:A'Tolkar wrote:Honestly, does anyone huff gas in anything other than a Venture or a Prospect? . Yes. There is more to gas harvesting than just wormhole space. Neglecting to consider that when crying for a revamp is ignorant. For mining nullsec gasclouds with more than 2-3 ships present, a battlecruiser or battleship is required. I personally liked using hurricanes, due to the size of cargo, though something tankier is preferable when running many characters at once gas mining. The proposed change to only allow ventures and prospects to mine gas would be a HUGE nerf to combat drug producers, without an accompanying gas cloud explosion damage resistance bonus on those respective ships, which in itself would then make the clouds pointless of having an explosion in the first place. Variety and options are better than forcing everyone to use 2 particular ships, when the system works just fine now.
I don't think the suggestions here would force you to change your system at all. Just that higher levels in the gas harvesting skill will reduce cycle time, and anyone can fit 5 harvesters to a ship, regardless of skill level. |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
610
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Posted - 2014.07.05 08:41:00 -
[15] - Quote
Saint Germain wrote:Arronicus wrote:A'Tolkar wrote:Honestly, does anyone huff gas in anything other than a Venture or a Prospect? . Yes. There is more to gas harvesting than just wormhole space. Neglecting to consider that when crying for a revamp is ignorant. For mining nullsec gasclouds with more than 2-3 ships present, a battlecruiser or battleship is required. I personally liked using hurricanes, due to the size of cargo, though something tankier is preferable when running many characters at once gas mining. The proposed change to only allow ventures and prospects to mine gas would be a HUGE nerf to combat drug producers, without an accompanying gas cloud explosion damage resistance bonus on those respective ships, which in itself would then make the clouds pointless of having an explosion in the first place. Variety and options are better than forcing everyone to use 2 particular ships, when the system works just fine now. I don't think the suggestions here would force you to change your system at all. Just that higher levels in the gas harvesting skill will reduce cycle time, and anyone can fit 5 harvesters to a ship, regardless of skill level.
Exactly that.
Then again: Why would someone use another ship than a Prospect for Gas Mining? |
Fer'isam K'ahn
None Of One
182
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Posted - 2014.07.05 08:56:00 -
[16] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Exactly that.
Then again: Why would someone use another ship than a Prospect for Gas Mining? Yes, but why is the gas miner not 'mining frigate'-only like the strip miners are exclusive?
As long as they are not, the skill needs to be changed. Are you sure your issues aren't elsewhere ?! |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
610
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Posted - 2014.07.05 09:12:00 -
[17] - Quote
Choice ... perhaps? |
A'Tolkar
Carlson's Raiders
25
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Posted - 2014.07.08 19:10:00 -
[18] - Quote
Saint Germain wrote:Arronicus wrote:A'Tolkar wrote:Honestly, does anyone huff gas in anything other than a Venture or a Prospect? . Yes. There is more to gas harvesting than just wormhole space. Neglecting to consider that when crying for a revamp is ignorant. For mining nullsec gasclouds with more than 2-3 ships present, a battlecruiser or battleship is required. I personally liked using hurricanes, due to the size of cargo, though something tankier is preferable when running many characters at once gas mining. The proposed change to only allow ventures and prospects to mine gas would be a HUGE nerf to combat drug producers, without an accompanying gas cloud explosion damage resistance bonus on those respective ships, which in itself would then make the clouds pointless of having an explosion in the first place. Variety and options are better than forcing everyone to use 2 particular ships, when the system works just fine now. I don't think the suggestions here would force you to change your system at all. Just that higher levels in the gas harvesting skill will reduce cycle time, and anyone can fit 5 harvesters to a ship, regardless of skill level.
At least some people can read the OP. In fact I could have sworn that I said something along these lines:
And if there is some worry about someone putting 8 gas cloud harvester II's on a Battleship (I say let them) ... OK, so at the end I implied that if CCP thought removing the limit and allowing 8 harvesters on a BS was OP, then limit them to Mining Frigate class ships.
And this: Then again: Why would someone use another ship than a Prospect for Gas Mining? :)
I mean really? WHY?
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Linkxsc162534
Traps 'R' Us Advanced Amateurs
83
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Posted - 2014.07.08 19:28:00 -
[19] - Quote
A'Tolkar wrote:Saint Germain wrote:Arronicus wrote:A'Tolkar wrote:Honestly, does anyone huff gas in anything other than a Venture or a Prospect? . Yes. There is more to gas harvesting than just wormhole space. Neglecting to consider that when crying for a revamp is ignorant. For mining nullsec gasclouds with more than 2-3 ships present, a battlecruiser or battleship is required. I personally liked using hurricanes, due to the size of cargo, though something tankier is preferable when running many characters at once gas mining. The proposed change to only allow ventures and prospects to mine gas would be a HUGE nerf to combat drug producers, without an accompanying gas cloud explosion damage resistance bonus on those respective ships, which in itself would then make the clouds pointless of having an explosion in the first place. Variety and options are better than forcing everyone to use 2 particular ships, when the system works just fine now. I don't think the suggestions here would force you to change your system at all. Just that higher levels in the gas harvesting skill will reduce cycle time, and anyone can fit 5 harvesters to a ship, regardless of skill level. At least some people can read the OP. In fact I could have sworn that I said something along these lines: And if there is some worry about someone putting 8 gas cloud harvester II's on a Battleship (I say let them) ... OK, so at the end I implied that if CCP thought removing the limit and allowing 8 harvesters on a BS was OP, then limit them to Mining Frigate class ships. And this: Then again: Why would someone use another ship than a Prospect for Gas Mining? :) I mean really? WHY?
The mining rokh shall rise again |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
729
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Posted - 2014.07.08 20:15:00 -
[20] - Quote
A'Tolkar wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:Yield is not really a good bonus. 25% of 40 m-¦ is only 50 m-¦ yield, not exactly thrilling. Less cycle time, however, would be absolutely awesome. Every second and, adding up, minute that you don't need to spend in the gas cloud is a minute more which you can spend on your POS, tinkering with the gas silos and reactors. You're right. Just checked out gas cloud harvester II. 20 m^3. A 25% bonus would be 25 m^3. So unless the cloud is in units of 5 m^3 (and some are units of 10 m^3) AND the skill is level 5, there is no bonus at all. Better off with a cycle time decrease.
Depends on which gas. All Cytoserocins are 10m3 per unit. Polymers clouds range from 2 - 10m3 iirc. So a time reduction would be much more useful.
If memory serves, at maximum skills it currently takes 27 minutes to fill a Venture. So yeah. Cycle time reduction would be sweet. GÇ£I personally refuse to help AAA take space from itself so it can become an even shittier version of itselfGÇ¥ -Grath Telkin, 2014. |
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Madeleine Lemmont
Divide et Impera DE
8
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Posted - 2014.08.04 15:36:00 -
[21] - Quote
+1
The idea sounds useful. |
Caleb Seremshur
The Atomic Fallout Kids
368
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Posted - 2014.10.18 15:50:00 -
[22] - Quote
Incidentally I've been thinking of this myself - replace the prospects sig reduction to a second gas harvester reduction of say just 2.5% per level per expedition frigate level. This would add some real value to the hull and do two things:
1. Mean it doesn't take nearly an hour to fill its ore hold.
2. Is still tivially easy to scan down.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=348015 T3 OHing subsystem review and rebalance https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=290346 LP faction weapon store costs rebalancing
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elitatwo
Congregatio
368
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Posted - 2014.10.18 17:28:00 -
[23] - Quote
Sorry for dropping by!
I was thinking about the cycle time reduction and yield increase but don't both do the same?
Think about this,
you decrase the cycle time so you harvest more per time or you increase the yield and harvest more per time
both cases fill your orebay quicker or don't they? signature |
Scuzzy Logic
Delusions of Granduer Two Drink Minimum
141
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Posted - 2014.10.19 03:45:00 -
[24] - Quote
On the other hand, we could get an expedition frigate with 5 highs, a gas hold and some sort of gas explosion resistant T2 shield resist profile. Make it sh*t at everything else, of course. Something like 1 mid 2 lows, just enough for 1WCS, a DCU and an afterburner...
Make the bonuses to something like: harvester cap use, shield recharge time / harvester cycle, gas hold
That way it can harvest null gas without dying and be useful in WHs. |
Scuzzy Logic
Delusions of Granduer Two Drink Minimum
141
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Posted - 2014.10.19 03:58:00 -
[25] - Quote
Saint Germain wrote:[quote=Arronicus]
I don't think the suggestions here would force you to change your system at all. Just that higher levels in the gas harvesting skill will reduce cycle time, and anyone can fit 5 harvesters to a ship, regardless of skill level.
Or bring forth the 8 harvester battleship. Having a 5-of limit would be rather random. Plus huffing in my sieged paladin would make ppl think I'm huffing more paint fumes than fullerenes. |
Ben Ishikela
Moira. Villore Accords
1
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Posted - 2014.10.19 06:52:00 -
[26] - Quote
+1 for -5%CycleTime. |
Caleb Seremshur
The Atomic Fallout Kids
369
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Posted - 2014.10.19 07:48:00 -
[27] - Quote
Scuzzy Logic wrote:Saint Germain wrote:[quote=Arronicus]
I don't think the suggestions here would force you to change your system at all. Just that higher levels in the gas harvesting skill will reduce cycle time, and anyone can fit 5 harvesters to a ship, regardless of skill level. Or bring forth the 8 harvester battleship. Having a 5-of limit would be rather random. Plus huffing in my sieged paladin would make ppl think I'm huffing more paint fumes than fullerenes.
Well if you could imagine that the prospect under the current scheme getting 3 turret hard points. At this time it would *have* to drop its cloak in to a mobile depot but in exchange it gets at least 1 full harvester more worth of gas per cycle than a 5-harvester ship.. which iirc gets less than a fully skilled venture/prospect now anyway but only by like 0.5 of a harvester. So maybe the overall bonus would climb to like 2 effective harvesters more? I cannot in to math right now. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=348015 T3 OHing subsystem review and rebalance https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=290346 LP faction weapon store costs rebalancing
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poppeteer
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
29
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Posted - 2014.10.19 10:08:00 -
[28] - Quote
Lothros Andastar wrote:Try mining exploding gas in a Venture. I'll wait. Been there, done that, sold gas. What was your point exactly? |
Arronicus
Bitter Lemons Brothers of Tangra
1159
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Posted - 2014.10.19 11:07:00 -
[29] - Quote
A'Tolkar wrote:Saint Germain wrote:Arronicus wrote:A'Tolkar wrote:Honestly, does anyone huff gas in anything other than a Venture or a Prospect? . Yes. There is more to gas harvesting than just wormhole space. Neglecting to consider that when crying for a revamp is ignorant. For mining nullsec gasclouds with more than 2-3 ships present, a battlecruiser or battleship is required. I personally liked using hurricanes, due to the size of cargo, though something tankier is preferable when running many characters at once gas mining. The proposed change to only allow ventures and prospects to mine gas would be a HUGE nerf to combat drug producers, without an accompanying gas cloud explosion damage resistance bonus on those respective ships, which in itself would then make the clouds pointless of having an explosion in the first place. Variety and options are better than forcing everyone to use 2 particular ships, when the system works just fine now. I don't think the suggestions here would force you to change your system at all. Just that higher levels in the gas harvesting skill will reduce cycle time, and anyone can fit 5 harvesters to a ship, regardless of skill level. At least some people can read the OP. In fact I could have sworn that I said something along these lines: And if there is some worry about someone putting 8 gas cloud harvester II's on a Battleship (I say let them) ... OK, so at the end I implied that if CCP thought removing the limit and allowing 8 harvesters on a BS was OP, then limit them to Mining Frigate class ships. And this: Then again: Why would someone use another ship than a Prospect for Gas Mining? :) I mean really? WHY?
First, apparently you didn't read your OWN post.
A'Tolkar wrote: and that is a bad idea, then make it so they can only be fitted onto Mining Frigates (Venture/Prospect).
Second, I already explained why; the venture and prospect cannot handle nullsec group gas mining. |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
825
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 12:16:00 -
[30] - Quote
Arronicus wrote:A'Tolkar wrote: and that is a bad idea, then make it so they can only be fitted onto Mining Frigates (Venture/Prospect). Second, I already explained why; the venture and prospect cannot handle nullsec group gas mining.
Who told you that? The Prospect very well can handle the gas clouds. The AOE waves are no problems and the rats are killed by a fleet member in a Sin/Ishtar or otherwise combat capable ship. |
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