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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Anthar Thebess
593
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 08:09:00 -
[901] - Quote
Free bump for CCP! Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption |
Spugg Galdon
APOCALYPSE LEGION The Obsidian Front
464
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 08:34:00 -
[902] - Quote
This was probably the best suggestion I've ever seen for Null Sec Space in general: Link
Covers a hell of a lot of issues. Unfortunately it seemed to slip completely under the radar of CCP. Probably due to timing.
Couple this with removing instant teleportation with a "J-Space" mechanic for jumping and I think we might actually have working Sov!! |
Anthar Thebess
593
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 08:47:00 -
[903] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4815864#post4815864 Some additional idea. Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
619
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 09:22:00 -
[904] - Quote
h4kun4 wrote:Ores need to be rebalanced somehow in null, the permanent shortage of mexallon and the senselessness to import it due to fuel pices and the actual obsolescence of Meta 0 425mm Rails after cruis are not good for the economy.
I thought the idea of low mex in null was to make sure people had to move back and forth from null the empire and back. If anything I think we need more of this. The more people that actually jump across systems the more people will see this and want to do the same. |
Speedkermit Damo
Demonic Retribution
295
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 09:26:00 -
[905] - Quote
After hearing about the recent fighting for Huola, and having dabbled in factional warfare myself, I honestly think applying the FW mechanics to sov warfare would be great. All it would need would be a few tweaks.
It can't be worse than the crap we have now. Don't Panic.
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Anthar Thebess
593
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 09:45:00 -
[906] - Quote
Speedkermit Damo wrote:After hearing about the recent fighting for Huola, and having dabbled in factional warfare myself, I honestly think applying the FW mechanics to sov warfare would be great. All it would need would be a few tweaks.
It can't be worse than the crap we have now. I think you are right. Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption |
Callduron
Occupational Hazzard The Bastion
614
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 19:00:00 -
[907] - Quote
Allison A'vani wrote:I don't know the last time you had to do any alliance logistical work Manny, but as someone in PL who uses their JF more than any other ship in the game I have to 100% disagree with you. If this became a thing, then 0.0 would essentially die.
Check your privilege. The kind of traffic congestion Manny was talking about sounds amazing fun, hardly anyone else thinks it should stay sacrificed so you get to titan bridge your freighters around your renter empire.
Quote: Regardless of any resource localization done in 0.0 from mining, ratting, or plexing, you still have to import a ton of things for basic industry as they are region bound
Basic industry is T1. Nothing T1 needs regional mats.
T2 regional mats could be sourced and moved pretty easily in blockade runners. Enough mats for 2 scimis fit in one Blockade runner. We want those gankable targets moving around.
Quote:If this happened then no one in 0.0 would ever use t2 modules nor ships as sourcing them would be near impossible without an extreme amount of work, especially as most of the exploration sites spawn in high-sec and low-sec space.
Bizzarrely ships are capable of flying into nullsec from elsewhere even if they have T2 modules on.
Price of t2 ships and modules would skyrocket overnight as fueling a pos would be a nightmare and moving moon goo would be suicide.
Great. This would create a gold rush towards nullsec which would create content.
Quote:Moons and systems in deep 0.0 would be abandoned as there would be no way to move products out of those systems in any way that was not a complete chore.
People mine Veldspar in high sec. Eve is full of people doing things which are a complete chore. The trick is to get these chores to generate pvp content.
In fact tell you what. Give me a Neo moon and I'll promise to only fuel it and collect my goo in a Blockade Runner. Do we have a deal?
Basically the entire 0.0 outside of border regions to empire space would be abandoned and you would see a mass exodus back to high/low sec.
No. It is currently abandoned. It would become interesting.
Quote:The entire in game economy relies on the Jump Freighter making logistics not more of an absolute pain in the ass than it already is. If my JF was limited to jumping 1 system at a time I would strait up unsub my accounts.
You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs. Eve is dull, it's a space conquest game with no space conquest. It's a game that inspires and excites but then breaks the promises it seemed to give. There's a generation of players that joined because of B-R who will be gone by the end of the year because Eve is nothing like as exciting as reports of those stories seem to suggest. I write http://stabbedup.blogspot.co.uk/ I post on reddit as /u/callduron. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2386
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 20:11:00 -
[908] - Quote
Create some sort of mechanism that scales sov grinding based on how much a system is used.
If your alliance kills 10k rats / day mines hundreds of thousands of roids, sucks all the moon goo out of the system, runs all the anoms, etc.... then the sov grind should be hard.
If your alliance occasionally passes through a system once a day but otherwise does nothing, then sov should be much easier to grind.
Reason: Just because you pay CONCORD for sov doesn't mean you get to keep it. CONCORD wants you to use your system to its full economic potential as well. |
Dr Cedric
Independent Miners Corporation Care Factor
57
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Posted - 2014.07.18 22:43:00 -
[909] - Quote
So, I'll do it again, since a few people have shamelessly plugged their ideas.
The shameless plug
the TL;DR:
Using your space earns you points to keep/upgrade it. Bad guys take away your points forcing you to lose/downgrade it. Does not address power projection, cynos, or capitals. Sparsely addresses the blob. Very much addresses the "blue donut"
Please enjoy!
Cedric
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Pidgeon Saissore
DNS Requiem Brothers of Tangra
37
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Posted - 2014.07.19 03:25:00 -
[910] - Quote
The feeling that I get from reading most of the intelligent comments here is that the best thing that could possibly happen to the game is for someone to get a director level spy in all alliances and hit the big shiny disband button. They would also need to go beyond the game to alliance coms servers and forums and lock them down too.
Short of this there is really no way to change the way the game is going away from the monolithic power blocks. Yes I know this wouldn't be good for anyone in the short term but it is the only way to break the stalemate that the game is in.
The point is that CCP can't revitalize null, only someone on the inside of the power blocks can, and that only by destroying them. Somehow I doubt that someone in the position to do that would sacrifice everything it gives them just for that purpose though I do suspect there are several people actively seeking to get in position to do just that. |
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6231
|
Posted - 2014.07.19 03:47:00 -
[911] - Quote
Dr Cedric wrote:So, I'll do it again, since a few people have shamelessly plugged their ideas. The shameless plugthe TL;DR: Using your space earns you points to keep/upgrade it. Bad guys take away your points forcing you to lose/downgrade it. Does not address power projection, cynos, or capitals. Sparsely addresses the blob. Very much addresses the "blue donut" Please enjoy! Northern Associatesdot will murder us all with their use of space
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Doris VanGit
The Rusty Muskets
1
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Posted - 2014.07.19 12:00:00 -
[912] - Quote
I think what would be nice at this point, is some more interaction from the Dev's. To my knowledge there is only one dev post on this thread!
But the general idea from all i think, is find away for smaller units to hold null, whilst making it a pain for larger units to maintain it.
Come on CCP, give us your thoughts. So we may agree or disagree, we are the paying customers after all! |
Draahk Chimera
0ne Percent.
22
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Posted - 2014.07.19 15:54:00 -
[913] - Quote
Just wanted to say I just finished watching the 2014 EVE fanfest keynote adress. CCP Seagull actually made their current work-flow quite clear: Industry (because the sandbox does not work without it) > Sov and warfare > Future (including player built gates).
I am sure they are looking at the thread and taking notes. They just can't say anything yet. Imagine they are working on a way to rebalance null by removing jumping but has not yet envisioned what to buff to compensate. Then a dev jumps in the thread like "Yeah we are removing jump drives and bridges". People would go bananas.
Kepp the faith friends, keep the faith. [IMG]http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s302/nattravn/EVE/draakhchimeranaglfar.png[/IMG] |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
937
|
Posted - 2014.07.19 16:57:00 -
[914] - Quote
Hard to keep the faith when players have been asking for CCP to look at sov mechanics for what, 4 years now? The reason EVE is the way it is, is because of CCP inaction. Instead of addressing real concerns they have rebalanced ship lines a couple time each, and added gimmicky **** that is essentially useless in practical usage situations.
Even this industry change is just change for the sake of change. It is already more profitable and efficient to produce product in Nullsec. The changes to industry are not going to make people go rushing to null any more than they do now. In fact all the changes do is "punish" people for not living in Null by making their production slightly less efficient than it was.
"Kicking the can down the road" CCP Games. |
Axe Coldon
46
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Posted - 2014.07.19 17:12:00 -
[915] - Quote
Unless CCP wants to die that slow death a gaming company experiences when they don't innovate, they will do something.
I suspect that have something in mind but can't or won't say.
To me its simple. Expansion. More space to fight over. Much more. Make Eve Bigger! _________________________________________________________________________________________________ No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. |
Dhaq
Anonymous Posters
25
|
Posted - 2014.07.19 17:20:00 -
[916] - Quote
Axe Coldon wrote:To me its simple. Expansion. More space to fight over. Much more. Make Eve Bigger!
Simply adding more systems would just result in the number of systems held by the current blocs being incremented by X. Maybe some small skirmishes to begin with, and then we are right back to where we are today.
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Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
634
|
Posted - 2014.07.19 18:18:00 -
[917] - Quote
Dhaq wrote:Axe Coldon wrote:To me its simple. Expansion. More space to fight over. Much more. Make Eve Bigger! Simply adding more systems would just result in the number of systems held by the current blocs being incremented by X. Maybe some small skirmishes to begin with, and then we are right back to where we are today.
Especially since you need to go through their space in the most likely case to get from High/Low sec to that kind of remote space.
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Manfred Sideous
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
765
|
Posted - 2014.07.19 21:58:00 -
[918] - Quote
Sup bros and broettes.
So you all know CCP is actually working on all this right now. They are just giving it to us in small digestible pieces. The industry changes they are making is feeding in to a much larger picture. This as well as all the anchorable units like Mobile Tractor beams and etc. 2015 will be the year just believe with me just believe. This conversation ITT however is important we are helping them see new options , poke holes in existing theories and ideas. We all have to understand I am sure CCP developers have alot they would like to say on this subject. However I am sure they understand its better to let this conversation happen organically versus wading in and injecting bias. They are watching bros so lets keep this going. @EveManny
https://twitter.com/EveManny |
Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS X
168
|
Posted - 2014.07.20 04:27:00 -
[919] - Quote
1. next time you post practice brevity.
2. allowing caps into lowsec means the end of lowsec (it's already tough to go out there).
3. I like the idea of hackables the more headache a small group can do the better (this would take quite a bit of balancing so that a single individual doesn't become to powerful vs a nullsec cartel).
4. confused by your sov next to other sov reduces defense and increases cost, seems this would be counter to your desire to get more small corps out into nullsec since their first sov would have no adjacent sov of their kind and so be weak and expensive or am i understanding your idea wrong?
5. destructible stations should loot spew and leave behind salvage just like ships do not magically jump someplace.
6. For those desiring that nullsec stay as it is because it makes good marketing; wow, seriously that is your justification?!?
7. one thing that surprised me when i first started playing EVE a year and a half ago was that 1 alliance had not achieved absolute game domination, the current game mechanics favor this outcome. (further the direction it seems CCP intends for the game will likely hasten this 1 alliance domination, in my opinion). Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really. |
Callduron
Occupational Hazzard The Bastion
614
|
Posted - 2014.07.20 09:02:00 -
[920] - Quote
Doris VanGit wrote:I But the general idea from all i think, is find away for smaller units to hold null, whilst making it a pain for larger units to maintain it.
You've put your finger on the heart of the problem but I think your analysis is flawed.
If logistics is manageable player effort will always scale up. I believe Mittani said in the Halloween War that they didn't want the extra space because it would burn out their logistics team. They still have a team that can maintain sov structures, ihub upgrades, defensive sbus, poses, moon mining over the whole left side of the universe. It's too easy to manage. It's currently a design feature that a logistics team that isn't so huge that it can be easily inflitrated by spies can't get through the work of managing more than about 10 regions. That's on a spectrum, want PL/BOT and CONDI/PBLRD to run less space make logistics harder.
Now space logistics is not good content.
Not only is it content for only a very few people but it's more or less pvp free. Occasionally a blockade runner might get caught on a gate but generally logistics is done without generating any pvp content at all. Eve is meant to be a game where the economics feeds conflict but this huge economy of renters and moon goo exists while rarely generating content.
I thought the idea of the Farms and Fields proposal was that people should hold sov by being active. I think that's still a direction worth exploring. So you control your space by mining and ratting and that attracts ganks which in turn encourages defence. To make defence viable we'd need to take a hard look at hotdrops. I can defend a mining fleet by putting out scouts next door against conventional roams but the possiblity to being hotdropped means that any neut in local suggests I should dock everyone up until they go away.
We're getting to the heart of things here - home defence should be viable and necessary. It really isn't now - I've been in a null sec alliance where we got told not to do home defence on the basis it would encourage trouble.
The key to a game of conquerable space countries is that the mechanics should force people to pvp to hold the space. If someone invaded a port in the real world and started blowing up buildings a country would respond with troops. In Eve they are usually best to just dock up. For example Black Legion took every R64 in Tribute, mostly unopposed, earlier this year. They then got outnumbered, deployed elsewhere and the poses were recaptured by the CFC. Player v POS, it's dull.
Crius is a start of this vision because if your POSes build your ships it's more worth undocking to defend them but ultimately we need pvp that's generated from threats rather than boredom. And I think that's where CCP is going. We know something of the schedule: Industry > Corp & Alliance revamp > POS revamp > Sov revamp > buildable stargates which will likely unlock new regions of space. This was revealed in the Eve keynote at Fanfest.
So if we're going to have all hands on deck red pen level 5 CTAs to defend space that''s a more exciting Eve than "I'll convo PGL and see if he'll bring a fleet out to fight us." And it does seem that that's the Eve CCP is trying to build.
There should be defensive advantage. Like wormhole effects but only applying to the alliance that owns the system. Something like +10% hit points and damage per sov level. That means attacking a major capital like VFK will usually necessitate interdicting ratting and mining first to degrade the sov level so you don't have to fight against people getting +50% damage and hit points.
Do you remember last year when Shadoo proposed an Alterac Valley style war games event in Cloud Ring instead of a sov war? When challenged he simply said "That's what happens now, you guys just don't know it." That's what Eve is now, war by consent, war games not real war. The current Delve campaign is NC. pushing for good fights and the CFC deployed down to give them those fights. It's based in Delve because both sides want to farm HERO and Provi between strat ops. It's all arranged and non-threatening.
To make threatening fights we need to design towards an Eve of small squabbling Balkanised countries. I'd actually like to see most of the logistics side disappear. Want sov? Grab some friends and go mine in an empty system. A one time operation that is done secretly by a dude titan bridging his freighter in is rubbish content.
Coalitions will only crumble if it's not in the interest of the members to stay in and if it's not manageable to defend so much space. And targeting the coalitions in quite a hostile way is the design requirement to make a sov game based on danger rather than consensual arranged pvp. I write http://stabbedup.blogspot.co.uk/ I post on reddit as /u/callduron. |
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
1488
|
Posted - 2014.07.20 11:34:00 -
[921] - Quote
I know nothing of nullsec, so I'll just leave this idea here on the 1% chance it has some potential. Y'all experts just ignore it if it doesn't.
Make moon mining equipment be anchorable only outside of POS shields, with no warning if it's being attacked. EVE Online: Death-o-meter |
Skia Aumer
Atlas Research Group
76
|
Posted - 2014.07.20 18:34:00 -
[922] - Quote
Erutpar Ambient wrote:This does concern me (as with a great many people) however, there is nothing any one person can actually do about it. Thus the problem is not of a personal nature, but is just a problem in general. What it would take to fix it is basically everyone agreeing not to coalesce into large groups. Which to a lot of those entities would put them at an extreme disadvantage. So that option is not viable. Does that make sense to you? It does not. Do you attend elections? According to your logics, elections are useless, because - and I quote - "there is nothing any one person can actually do about it".
Erutpar Ambient wrote:While i admire your zeal, it is unfortunately without impact on this issue. If you're character is any indication to your experience then it would appear your ignorance has gotten the best of you.
To be able to get to the point of being on part with the current 2 remaining coalitions, first you'd have to recruit, what? some 30,000 pilots/alts? Then you'd have to build up a force of Super Carriers and Titans if you want to be effective in the least. But in order to build those Supers you have to own Sovereignty in a system for long enough to be able to build those ships in the first place... No, I'm not posting with my main character here. And no, you dont need to own sov to get supers and titans. You can either buy them, or recruit players that already have those. And again no, you dont need gazilions of the big toys to win sov warfare. 2-3 ninja Nyxes can RF an IHUB in a timely manner. Thus even one small corp can be a PITA for the whole coalition. It can create timers and take systems if the blob choose not to respond. If they form up - oh well, try again. And again. And yet again. Time after time you'll see their fleets shrink. Who wants to rep that useless IHUB in a useless system in the middle of nowhere? And this is the time you bite.
Now I'm not telling you that sov mechanics is fine. It's ****. A large issue is a timezone warfare, for example. It's a common practice to set timers to 04:00 at night so that attackers have no chance to form a fleet. That trick was used extensively during the Hallowing War, and was among the major reasons why RUS block crumbled. But fixing it has nothing to do with jump drives, bridges and blue doughnuts. |
M1k3y Koontz
Thorn Project Surely You're Joking
588
|
Posted - 2014.07.20 18:47:00 -
[923] - Quote
Cherry Yeyo wrote:I can tl;dr this whole problem:
1. Its too easy to control large swaths of space via capitals and capitals are too hard to kill in large numbers
Why would anyone do that?
2. Theres not enough localized value in 0.0
If I have one lump of coal that isnt worth much but I have the ability to gather 500 lumps of coal that will be pretty great, I will gather 500 lumps of coal to the best of my ability.
If you make my one lump of coal more valuable, enough to sustain a reasonable living and make it impossible for me to gather 500, I will learn to live with that.
This is a simplified analogy about garbage space and collecting a ton of it then renting it out, no one can contest my 19 regions of space because of my capital blob that can move anywhere in it in minutes.
^ This is a great analogy that really hits the heart of the problem. Power projection is a symptom of the real problem: that holding half a galaxy is not only possible, but also advantageous.
If space were more valuable on the small scale (more resources), and harder to control on the large scale (tie sov to who actually occupies the space, if you don't occupy your space you'll lose it, just like real life), nullsec wouldn't face the problems it has today. How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp. |
Skia Aumer
Atlas Research Group
76
|
Posted - 2014.07.20 19:15:00 -
[924] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:There is only one issue with your logic. EvE is game, it is not life. EVE is more than a game. Why do you think people like The Mittani play it? Not to shoot red crosses for sure, so why? Cause in EVE we have a huge social experiment and it's amazingly interesting to watch it evolves. And guess what? In merely several years we've managed to repeat the history of the mankind from the Age of Discovery to the present. Dont you see the analogy between the current real life political map and EVE sov map? The forum dosnt allow for RL political discussion, so I'm not going into details. But seriously, the two worlds have very much in common. And the thing is - if we keep this frightfully accurate model (which is EVE) running for some time more, we have a chance to look into the future if our RL world.
Call me a madman, but if there's a 1% chance this time machine will work, then it's worth trying. But if they change the rules, for the sake of "fun" or whatever, the precious model can get broken, and EVE turns into a mere game. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates Forged of Fire
496
|
Posted - 2014.07.20 20:02:00 -
[925] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:I know nothing of nullsec, so I'll just leave this idea here on the 1% chance it has some potential. Y'all experts just ignore it if it doesn't.
Make moon mining equipment be anchorable only outside of POS shields, with no warning if it's being attacked.
Get rid of moon mining altogether. Get players out in ships gathering T2 raw materials and watch people fight each other, rather than structures. This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
938
|
Posted - 2014.07.20 20:19:00 -
[926] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:I know nothing of nullsec, so I'll just leave this idea here on the 1% chance it has some potential. Y'all experts just ignore it if it doesn't.
Make moon mining equipment be anchorable only outside of POS shields, with no warning if it's being attacked. Get rid of moon mining altogether. Get players out in ships gathering T2 raw materials and watch people fight each other, rather than structures.
Hell ya. Could even go further and tie moon goo elements into gas and mineral mining using alchemy. Put more people in space. |
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
258
|
Posted - 2014.07.20 21:21:00 -
[927] - Quote
Callduron wrote: Not only is it content for only a very few people but it's more or less pvp free. Occasionally a blockade runner might get caught on a gate but generally logistics is done without generating any pvp content at all. Eve is meant to be a game where the economics feeds conflict but this huge economy of renters and moon goo exists while rarely generating content.
Without picking at rest of your post (which is pretty ok in general) I will have to point out that if you want to kill someone and that someone does not want to get killed it is also a pvp. If no shots are fired it just means the other guy is winning.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... *THWONK!* GOT the bastard. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6235
|
Posted - 2014.07.20 21:55:00 -
[928] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:I know nothing of nullsec, so I'll just leave this idea here on the 1% chance it has some potential. Y'all experts just ignore it if it doesn't.
Make moon mining equipment be anchorable only outside of POS shields, with no warning if it's being attacked. Get rid of moon mining altogether. Get players out in ships gathering T2 raw materials and watch people fight each other, rather than structures. More mining action.
Mmm, a procurer battlegroup has been spotted moon mining. ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6235
|
Posted - 2014.07.20 21:59:00 -
[929] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:Cherry Yeyo wrote:This is a simplified analogy about garbage space and collecting a ton of it then renting it out, no one can contest my 19 regions of space because of my capital blob that can move anywhere in it in minutes. ^ This is a great analogy that really hits the heart of the problem. Power projection is a symptom of the real problem: that holding half a galaxy is not only possible, but also advantageous. If space were more valuable on the small scale (more resources), and harder to control on the large scale (tie sov to who actually occupies the space, if you don't occupy your space you'll lose it, just like real life), nullsec wouldn't face the problems it has today. This is a pretty great solution: garbage space and collecting a ton of it then renting it out ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
621
|
Posted - 2014.07.20 22:30:00 -
[930] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:Callduron wrote: Not only is it content for only a very few people but it's more or less pvp free. Occasionally a blockade runner might get caught on a gate but generally logistics is done without generating any pvp content at all. Eve is meant to be a game where the economics feeds conflict but this huge economy of renters and moon goo exists while rarely generating content.
Without picking at rest of your post (which is pretty ok in general) I will have to point out that if you want to kill someone and that someone does not want to get killed it is also a pvp. If no shots are fired it just means the other guy is winning.
Agreed, a point I have tried to make many times myself... |
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