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Triakis Cadelanne
Nova Tech Inc.
4
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Posted - 2014.07.03 01:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi,
I and some mates are planning to sometimes go in an unfarmed C4 hole to print some money. However I have no idea of which fleet we could use. We already used an Attack BC + logis combination that worked in C3, but I doubt that it could have a sufficient tank for C4 anoms. Of course a Domi RR (shield or armor) fleet would work but the wormhole wouldn't survive for a long time.
So any idea welcome :) |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
899
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Posted - 2014.07.03 06:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
This guy uses Ravens and Ospreys ...
http://vonkeigai.blogspot.com.au/2013/10/a-fleet-for-c4-wormhole-space-pve.html
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ChromeStriker
0ne Percent. Odin's Call
738
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Posted - 2014.07.03 07:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
As is the answer to almost everything these days.... Ishtars -_-
.... or T3's lol
No Worries |
King Aires
Coffee Sipper's Club Biggby Coffee Fan Club
44
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Posted - 2014.07.04 13:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
Triakis Cadelanne wrote:Hi,
I and some mates are planning to sometimes go in an unfarmed C4 hole to print some money. However I have no idea of which fleet we could use. We already used an Attack BC + logis combination that worked in C3, but I doubt that it could have a sufficient tank for C4 anoms. Of course a Domi RR (shield or armor) fleet would work but the wormhole wouldn't survive for a long time.
So any idea welcome :)
Wrong forum? I don't know.
Anyways a single BS or Tengu can do C4's all day every day. No need to split the costs amongst a fleet
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Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2050
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Posted - 2014.07.04 13:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
King Aires wrote:Triakis Cadelanne wrote:Hi,
I and some mates are planning to sometimes go in an unfarmed C4 hole to print some money. However I have no idea of which fleet we could use. We already used an Attack BC + logis combination that worked in C3, but I doubt that it could have a sufficient tank for C4 anoms. Of course a Domi RR (shield or armor) fleet would work but the wormhole wouldn't survive for a long time.
So any idea welcome :) Wrong forum? I don't know. Anyways a single BS or Tengu can do C4's all day every day. No need to split the costs amongst a fleet there is synergy in running a larger fleet, for example you can have a more efficient (spider)tank and thus afford higher average dps per fleet member.
as for the topic at hand: for obvious reasons keeping the investment down is probably a good idea, so ishtars or domis are indeed a good idea. spider repping tengus or navy scorpions may also be valid.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
1c3crysta1
Unknown in the unknown The Autonomy
30
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Posted - 2014.07.04 20:46:00 -
[6] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:
as for the topic at hand: for obvious reasons keeping the investment down is probably a good idea, so ishtars or domis are indeed a good idea. spider repping tengus or navy scorpions may also be valid.
I agree with him, these are solid choices. But on top of that, I'd vote for the prophecy. Not the highest dps, but spider rep these and you'll be tanking C4 without a problem even with just 3. They're cheap and light (compared to a BS). Since the tank isn't local, you can add pure DPS-ships if you want to reduce the time to completion. |
Triakis Cadelanne
Nova Tech Inc.
4
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Posted - 2014.07.05 13:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
Thanks for those replies. As I said, I don't want to use battleships since they would wreck the WH we want to use to acces the C4 and go back home. Ishtars may be nice but we don't have enough skilled member to find this as a valid solution. Same for Tengus (and a Tengu cost an arm and half).
I'll try some fit of spider tanked prophecy, thanks for the tip ! |
King Aires
Coffee Sipper's Club Biggby Coffee Fan Club
45
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Posted - 2014.07.05 14:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
Triakis Cadelanne wrote:Thanks for those replies. As I said, I don't want to use battleships since they would wreck the WH we want to use to acces the C4 and go back home. Ishtars may be nice but we don't have enough skilled member to find this as a valid solution. Same for Tengus (and a Tengu cost an arm and half).
I'll try some fit of spider tanked prophecy, thanks for the tip !
If you insist on using BC's then I would Highly, HIGHLY recommend Drakes. C4s do thousands of points of alpha on even a robust resist. I have seen CNR's and Golems lose 1/3 their entire shield in one hit. On top of that you have the neuting at 83km. I would go with a shield buffer tank and have back up ASB just incase something goes wrong. |
Lar Tadaruwa
State War Academy Caldari State
45
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Posted - 2014.07.05 19:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
Which reminds me to upgrade my Command Ship pilot which I think is Minmatar. (It may work to boost Drake though...)
EVE Online Billboard News http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels
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Triakis Cadelanne
Nova Tech Inc.
4
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Posted - 2014.07.05 19:26:00 -
[10] - Quote
King Aires wrote:If you insist on using BC's then I would Highly, HIGHLY recommend Drakes. C4s do thousands of points of alpha on even a robust resist. I have seen CNR's and Golems lose 1/3 their entire shield in one hit. On top of that you have the neuting at 83km. I would go with a shield buffer tank and have back up ASB just incase something goes wrong.
Yep we thought about that, but we're gunners / drone buddies. We don't know what those things that peeps call missiles are made for :p
However, maybe the Ferox can do the same job ?
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
913
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Posted - 2014.07.06 00:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
Drakes and Prophecies both have hull bonuses of 20% to all resists at BC V. The Drake is to shield and the Prophecy is to armor. So the choice partly revolves around how you intend to tank. |
King Aires
Coffee Sipper's Club Biggby Coffee Fan Club
46
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Posted - 2014.07.06 01:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Drakes and Prophecies both have hull bonuses of 20% to all resists at BC V. The Drake is to shield and the Prophecy is to armor. So the choice partly revolves around how you intend to tank.
ASB... efficiency of the remote shield booster. Trust me, love the Armor for pewing the pew but shields are 100x better for wormholes unless you want the love of non-ammo lazors. |
GordonO
The Oasis Group
52
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Posted - 2014.07.06 23:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
4 x RR tengu's are the est\cheapest way to do this is you not living in the wh. If you use self reps you need to go faction.. rr you can go t2 in a c4. get 4 more and you can go run some c5/c6 anoms.. It is still worth it without the cap escalation if you are "ninjaing" sites. You will still need someone along to salvage. btw.. 3 rr tengu's will do.. 4 makes for less stress as in some cases the ship being neuted is not the one being shot and you can fit warp disruptor's for the pvp that will come.
. |
Triakis Cadelanne
Nova Tech Inc.
4
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Posted - 2014.07.07 09:11:00 -
[14] - Quote
GordonO wrote:4 x RR tengu's are the est\cheapest
They aren't cheap enough for us. Plus we don't have missile skills. |
King Aires
Coffee Sipper's Club Biggby Coffee Fan Club
46
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Posted - 2014.07.07 11:24:00 -
[15] - Quote
Triakis Cadelanne wrote:GordonO wrote:4 x RR tengu's are the est\cheapest They aren't cheap enough for us. Plus we don't have missile skills.
"Cheap" is a relative term when you pull 100mil from a single site and you can run 10-20 sites a night in a couple hours.
You could seriously pay for complete faction fit Tengu fleet for four characters in about 2.5 days at most, use the rest of the month to buy plex with your isk and save for accidents.
Also, heavy missle training is like easy.
You will not find any combination of ships outside of RR Drakes, RR Tengus, Local Rep Tengus or Sleipners that will match the efficiency, survivability or ease of use. Unless you are willing to go to BS size.
If you don't have the skills, don't go to WH space in the first place. Isk is irrelevant. |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
101
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Posted - 2014.07.07 17:47:00 -
[16] - Quote
Triakis Cadelanne wrote:GordonO wrote:4 x RR tengu's are the est\cheapest They aren't cheap enough for us. Plus we don't have missile skills.
You should stick to C3 in rr drake gangs until this post is no longer true. |
Triakis Cadelanne
Nova Tech Inc.
4
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Posted - 2014.07.07 18:45:00 -
[17] - Quote
King Aires wrote: "Cheap" is a relative term when you pull 100mil from a single site and you can run 10-20 sites a night in a couple hours.
You could seriously pay for complete faction fit Tengu fleet for four characters in about 2.5 days at most, use the rest of the month to buy plex with your isk and save for accidents.
Also, heavy missle training is like easy.
You will not find any combination of ships outside of RR Drakes, RR Tengus, Local Rep Tengus or Sleipners that will match the efficiency, survivability or ease of use. Unless you are willing to go to BS size.
If you don't have the skills, don't go to WH space in the first place. Isk is irrelevant.
ATM we're skilling Dominix because it's a very nice jack-of-all-things ship ... unless you have to travel trough an other WH. I know that Tengu is the most efficient ship for any PVE out of Incursions, but I'm looking for something to close the gap before now and the time we have 4 Tengu pilots.
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Triakis Cadelanne wrote:GordonO wrote:4 x RR tengu's are the est\cheapest They aren't cheap enough for us. Plus we don't have missile skills. You should stick to C3 in rr drake gangs until this post is no longer true.
You're probably right, but I guess that when everybody want to try something, it's nice to give it a try :) |
Sitalces
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2014.07.07 18:59:00 -
[18] - Quote
"You're probably right, but I guess that when everybody want to try something, it's nice to give it a try :)"
We did just that me and the corp i was in at the time and we had alot of fun doing it :)
We did loose a few ships though. |
King Aires
Coffee Sipper's Club Biggby Coffee Fan Club
46
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Posted - 2014.07.07 21:56:00 -
[19] - Quote
The problem with the Dominix is that you are going to kill your WH if it is a C4-C1 or a C1-K and the range is horrible for what you want to do.
The only drones that can hit at the needed range to survive a C4 Barracks for example is 85km+ and at that range you are using Sentries only. Sentries will get alpha'd by the sleepers. When you run out of drones you will be screwed.
So let us just refresh here. You have skills to fly BS, skills to use T2 SEntries and RR armor skills... also you have scanning skills or a scanning alt. But you have no skills for missiles, T3 or HACs? I mean a shield rokh for range would even be better than a Domi in my opinion. |
1c3crysta1
Unknown in the unknown The Autonomy
30
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Posted - 2014.07.08 08:05:00 -
[20] - Quote
King Aires wrote:The problem with the Dominix is that you are going to kill your WH if it is a C4-C1 or a C1-K and the range is horrible for what you want to do.
The only drones that can hit at the needed range to survive a C4 Barracks for example is 85km+ and at that range you are using Sentries only. Sentries will get alpha'd by the sleepers. When you run out of drones you will be screwed.
So let us just refresh here. You have skills to fly BS, skills to use T2 SEntries and RR armor skills... also you have scanning skills or a scanning alt. But you have no skills for missiles, T3 or HACs? I mean a shield rokh for range would even be better than a Domi in my opinion.
Have you tried spider domis, in any situation? Just keep those cap transfers running and drone aggro is a negligible problem. If there's any drones that're safe in case of sleeper aggro, it's the sentries with their big buffers (and close proximity to being scooped). And above that, they're in the lead when it comes to DPS at those ranges (behind cruise missiles, but without the damage delay). Apart from T3s or Marauders, I think that spider domis are as good as it gets with small groups. As for being to big for the hole, 3 domis are enough and getting them back and fourth through a hole isn't enough to pop any hole short from C1s, and who'll really go and farm those? |
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King Aires
Coffee Sipper's Club Biggby Coffee Fan Club
46
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Posted - 2014.07.08 12:41:00 -
[21] - Quote
1c3crysta1 wrote:King Aires wrote:The problem with the Dominix is that you are going to kill your WH if it is a C4-C1 or a C1-K and the range is horrible for what you want to do.
The only drones that can hit at the needed range to survive a C4 Barracks for example is 85km+ and at that range you are using Sentries only. Sentries will get alpha'd by the sleepers. When you run out of drones you will be screwed.
So let us just refresh here. You have skills to fly BS, skills to use T2 SEntries and RR armor skills... also you have scanning skills or a scanning alt. But you have no skills for missiles, T3 or HACs? I mean a shield rokh for range would even be better than a Domi in my opinion. Have you tried spider domis, in any situation? Just keep those cap transfers running and drone aggro is a negligible problem. If there's any drones that're safe in case of sleeper aggro, it's the sentries with their big buffers (and close proximity to being scooped). And above that, they're in the lead when it comes to DPS at those ranges (behind cruise missiles, but without the damage delay). Apart from T3s or Marauders, I think that spider domis are as good as it gets with small groups. As for being to big for the hole, 3 domis are enough and getting them back and fourth through a hole isn't enough to pop any hole short from C1s, and who'll really go and farm those?
What low skill noob is going to be able to use T2 Sentries properly, let alone past the 80km mark? Yes I have used spider domi's for pos bashing and stuff like that, but living in a C4 myself I can promise you shields and missiles are the way to go here.
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Robert Morningstar
Morningstar Excavations LTD Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners
71
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Posted - 2014.07.08 19:58:00 -
[22] - Quote
Agreed 3 domi's can do c4 fine and will only burn half the mass to a c4 for the round trip. Have a dest set up to salvage after doing all the sites you intend or as you go along if you have the extra pilot you want 3 drone link augmentors 2-3 Omni II and bouncers as it will give you the range for any spawn. and I use 425 rail II with tungsten for range also do not forget the sebo with range script. |
1c3crysta1
Unknown in the unknown The Autonomy
30
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Posted - 2014.07.08 21:58:00 -
[23] - Quote
King Aires wrote:
What low skill noob is going to be able to use T2 Sentries properly, let alone past the 80km mark? Yes I have used spider domi's for pos bashing and stuff like that, but living in a C4 myself I can promise you shields and missiles are the way to go here.
Hint:
Triakis Cadelanne wrote:
Yep we thought about that, but we're gunners / drone buddies. We don't know what those things that peeps call missiles are made for :p
However, maybe the Ferox can do the same job ?
Missiles ain't closer for them than drones are, especially since they don't seem to like them. I won't say that shield is wrong, but armor got its merits with spider domis. |
King Aires
Coffee Sipper's Club Biggby Coffee Fan Club
46
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Posted - 2014.07.08 22:56:00 -
[24] - Quote
1c3crysta1 wrote:King Aires wrote:
What low skill noob is going to be able to use T2 Sentries properly, let alone past the 80km mark? Yes I have used spider domi's for pos bashing and stuff like that, but living in a C4 myself I can promise you shields and missiles are the way to go here.
Hint: Triakis Cadelanne wrote:
Yep we thought about that, but we're gunners / drone buddies. We don't know what those things that peeps call missiles are made for :p
However, maybe the Ferox can do the same job ?
Missiles ain't closer for them than drones are, especially since they don't seem to like them. I won't say that shield is wrong, but armor got its merits with spider domis.
I guess if it is all you got... but 3 Tengus >>> 3 Drakes >>> 1 Golem >>> Mach >>> 1 CNR >>> 2 Sleipners >>> 3 Lokis >>> 3 Domis >>> Anything else
It is just a heck of a lot of mass on the hole, and they had better have a dedicated scanner with salvage equipment and they had better hope they don't get their exit closed. Nothing worse for WH noobs ninja'ing than to be in a C4-C4 and get stuck in an endless chain that eventually goes to NS. |
1c3crysta1
Unknown in the unknown The Autonomy
30
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Posted - 2014.07.09 08:31:00 -
[25] - Quote
King Aires wrote:
I guess if it is all you got... but 3 Tengus >>> 3 Drakes >>> 1 Golem >>> Mach >>> 1 CNR >>> 2 Sleipners >>> 3 Lokis >>> 3 Domis >>> Anything else
It is just a heck of a lot of mass on the hole, and they had better have a dedicated scanner with salvage equipment and they had better hope they don't get their exit closed. Nothing worse for WH noobs ninja'ing than to be in a C4-C4 and get stuck in an endless chain that eventually goes to NS.
I can't see why you would keep going on about missile ships when they've explicitly said that they ain't interrested in them. I also can't understand why you forgot about the other two marauders. Both the Paladin and the Kronos can be fitted to do C4 work exemplary. To be completely honest, I can't see why you would prefer missile based ships at all since it's easier to get a low transversial against sleepers than it is to slow them down, especially at the distances that the C4 combat sites usually are at.
And for the weight on the hole, unless they bring a party of over ~6 battleships, I wouldn't worry all to much since a fresh 2bil-hole can take the weight of atleast 9 bs back and fourth. If they get backdoored by a raiding party big enough to cut them short of weight with that much buffer, they're screwed anyway. |
Anize Oramara
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
189
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Posted - 2014.07.09 11:04:00 -
[26] - Quote
two rr domis properly fit is enough to run c4 sites comfortably. more domis make the sites go faster. id say after a rr tengu gang, rr domis is the most efficient risk vs isk setup. ishtars are up there are well.
there are ships that will do it faster but they cost waaaay too much like marauders/pirate bs. prots are ok, lokis are worse (I have a lot of experience with lokis and c3/c4s) and command ships should work pretty decently but training for them takes aaaages. drakes should work but not as good as domis.
c4 holes have either 2bill or 3bill mass depending on where they connect. a domi has just over 100mill mass. I dont think a bs can even fit through a c1 fyi so you will need to look for c2/3/5/6 holes to get to c4s. also have a cloaky scanning alt sitting on the entrance hole and spam dscan like a mofo. |
King Aires
Coffee Sipper's Club Biggby Coffee Fan Club
46
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Posted - 2014.07.09 11:33:00 -
[27] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:two rr domis properly fit is enough to run c4 sites comfortably. more domis make the sites go faster. id say after a rr tengu gang, rr domis is the most efficient risk vs isk setup. ishtars are up there are well.
there are ships that will do it faster but they cost waaaay too much like marauders/pirate bs. prots are ok, lokis are worse (I have a lot of experience with lokis and c3/c4s) and command ships should work pretty decently but training for them takes aaaages. drakes should work but not as good as domis.
c4 holes have either 2bill or 3bill mass depending on where they connect. a domi has just over 100mill mass. I dont think a bs can even fit through a c1 fyi so you will need to look for c2/3/5/6 holes to get to c4s. also have a cloaky scanning alt sitting on the entrance hole and spam dscan like a mofo.
Seriously there is not a single Wormhole to a C4 that is larger than 2bil... all but the wandering ones (which I have yet to come across) and those are 1bil. And pretty much everything else you said goes along with how people were suggesting Ishtars or Drakes in the beginning. But they aren't trained for either.
Also should be mentioned if your scanner/salvager can also be a T3 with gang links, that would help things out a lot.
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Anize Oramara
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
189
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Posted - 2014.07.10 09:21:00 -
[28] - Quote
arent c4s that is connected to c5 and c6 whs 3bill? I just remember that c4s were a special kind of pita when we lived in the c5 as you cant get caps through it.
we used to run them with rr tengus sure but rr domis will work just as well. |
Boudacca Sangrere
Anomalous Existence Low-Class
52
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Posted - 2014.07.10 12:06:00 -
[29] - Quote
Daytripping into a C4 is a bit more difficult as you will usually not have a direct connection to Empire space. It makes therefore more sense either just going into a C3 (for the day), or if you do want to go to a C4, to stay a bit longer. Set up a cheap tower with some defenses (neuts, guns, SCRAMS). It will give you a (relatively) save heaven for your operation. Ideally you want a C4-C4 hole for that so that you can run sites every day (or any other hole with a C4 static). Alternatively, you also could use a cloaky Orca... (much less secure IMHO, but more mobile). And you can use the Orca to roll the static a bit faster...
IF you do stay for a bit, then few options will surpass the Spider Domi Fleet (sentries are NOT regularly shot by sleepers, and you CAN rep them too, you know). One alternative to the Domi Fleet would be a Rattlesnake fleet. More 50% more tank AND 50% more DPS is nothing to sneeze at (my Sleeper Rattler does about 1450 dps). Granted, missile skills do help a LOT, but also look at the boni the rattler gives to drones... Oh, and you will want Battleships if you are planning to roll holes as well.
I hope this helps. Feel free to look me up in game should you have more questions. I am always happy to have more targ... err neighbours
Oh. and for the love of BOB, have at least 1, better 2 scouts in scanning ships in the hole. (personally that is the best advise I can give).
B. |
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus Aeterna Anima
271
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Posted - 2014.07.11 11:41:00 -
[30] - Quote
If you're worried about mass, you could try a spider proteus fleet.
Railgun spider setup has a nice projection and comparable tank to Tengu RR, drone spider setup could be made considerably more robust with still very nice DPS. |
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