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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10586
|
Posted - 2014.07.06 01:11:00 -
[31] - Quote
Dex Lysia wrote:I don't think sov needs to be dragged into this simple question.
Compare force projection to a real world example: Winterfell could be burned becaused its army was away on other business. If that army could have travelled across the map within 30 minutes, or effectively 3 minutes with TIDI, the place would easily have been defended.
It would be more of a game IMO if consideration had to be given to the location of potential defending forces etc.
Thanks for your input, random person who clearly has no experience in sov mechanics. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1937
|
Posted - 2014.07.06 03:08:00 -
[32] - Quote
Making it easier for players interact will mean they will interact less. Making it easier to find PvP will mean there will be less PvP.
Counter-intuitive but the results speak for themselves. EVE isn't some lame battleground MMO game where your gear is saved from battle and you fight for meaningless points. EVE requires work, real work, to build up your assets, and unlike every other MMO has real and meaningful losses. In a game like EVE the ease of power projection has been and always will be a complete disaster.
Sure you'll have the occasional node crashing, headline grabbing 3000 man fight at 10% speed, but good luck keeping subs with that alone. People that sub after that type of advertising play the real EVE and feel scammed. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Glathull
Warlock Assassins
424
|
Posted - 2014.07.06 03:20:00 -
[33] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Sean Apollo wrote:As force projections been this way for quite awhile. But over the past 2 weeks its been "CCP nerf it please!" Note that this is happening during "peace time" and this was never mentioned during "war time" I think the reason people are complaining about it now is because 2 reasons. 1. Sov mechanics 2. Smaller alliances need it to be nerfed. Compaints about power projection in the form of hot drops have been around as long as Pandemic Legion has existed, and possibly longer. The issue of re-shipping with jump clones has also been brought up several times over the last few years. The perception of power projection being problematic has persisted since the prolegomena of capital ships.
Nothing to add to this discussion. Just popped in to say +1 for a correct use of the word "prolegomena." Nice. Turrents |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6211
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Posted - 2014.07.06 03:56:00 -
[34] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Dex Lysia wrote:I don't think sov needs to be dragged into this simple question.
Compare force projection to a real world example: Winterfell could be burned becaused its army was away on other business. If that army could have travelled across the map within 30 minutes, or effectively 3 minutes with TIDI, the place would easily have been defended.
It would be more of a game IMO if consideration had to be given to the location of potential defending forces etc.
Thanks for your input, random person who clearly has no experience in sov mechanics. says not to bring sov in, brings sov in.
General Discussion, subtle as ever... ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5401
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Posted - 2014.07.06 07:37:00 -
[35] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote: prolegomena
I'm not bragging when I say that I'm very well read with a large vocabulary.
Mara, you stumped me with that one. It's the first time I've had to look up a word used in a post in the EVE-O forum.
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Adrie Atticus
The Shadow Plague The Bastion
137
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Posted - 2014.07.06 09:58:00 -
[36] - Quote
How can a simple poll require 19 external scripts to be loaded? |
Pine Marten
Viziam Amarr Empire
48
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Posted - 2014.07.06 12:55:00 -
[37] - Quote
Sean Apollo wrote:How about we just wait for CCP to change sov mechanics. Then we can see if "power projection" needs a change
eta never. |
Belt Scout
Thread Lockaholics Anonymous
529
|
Posted - 2014.07.06 13:20:00 -
[38] - Quote
Adrie Atticus wrote:How can a simple poll require 19 external scripts to be loaded?
Yeah FF NoScript was like .
*waves ba-bye o/ as I shut the door to the spam generator site.
.
They say most of your brain shuts down on the EvE forums. All but the impatient side, and the sarcastic side. No wonder I'm still awake. |
Sean Apollo
Rising Storm. The Unthinkables
20
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Posted - 2014.07.06 16:23:00 -
[39] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Sean Apollo wrote:But over the past 2 weeks its been "CCP nerf it please!" Note that this is happening during "peace time" and this was never mentioned during "war time" It has been a hot topic for a long time now. A loooooong time and has never gone quite.
I have yet to have seen any. But that doesn't mean your wrong. Most people hate me... |
Thead Enco
47th Ronin
182
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Posted - 2014.07.06 17:16:00 -
[40] - Quote
Would "NCDOT" take that first step to "Mothball" your entire cap fleet?
-á"A Lannister always pays his debts."
-áTyrion Lannister |
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Prince Kobol
1968
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Posted - 2014.07.06 17:56:00 -
[41] - Quote
What ever changes you make, whether it be increasing the distances between systems which is essentially another way of nerfing jump range, just an out right nerf to jump range, increasing jump fuel by x amount, a mass limit on Titan bridges, any other nerf to Titan Bridges and all the other suggestions which have been made will only hurt the smaller corps / alliances.
The major powers such as CFC, NC, PL, Solar have so much isk, have so many titans, have so many cyno pilots and are so organised that any of the changes talked about whilst might make life slightly more difficult or should I say tedious, will not have the desired effect and will ultimately only hurt the smaller groups.
I have yet to see one idea that will make any real changes other then give more power to the larger groups and make life even more difficult for the smaller groups. |
RAIN Arthie
The Ascended Fleet Intrepid Crossing
310
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Posted - 2014.07.06 18:30:00 -
[42] - Quote
Napalm sticks to kids. |
Mikhem
Taxisk Unlimited
156
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Posted - 2014.07.06 19:20:00 -
[43] - Quote
There is titan jump portal and there is jump bridge building. I tried to search information if these two can make capital ships to jump through them. I found no information that it would be impossible for large capital ships to use these two options even when they have their own jump drives.
I propose that capital ships are only allowed to jump with their own jump drives. This would make jumping with them a lot slower. Jump bridges could only be used by ships that can go through stargate.
Someone was wondering why this power projection issue has now emerged. With Google search I found link to 2011 thread about power projection: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=1479712
Mikhem
Door is still closed. :(
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Falin Whalen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
670
|
Posted - 2014.07.06 19:21:00 -
[44] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:GÇóMaking something tedious will not stop players doing it if it's very clearly the best option. They'll do it, and they'll hate it I love that quote, because most people who come up with "brilliant" ideas forget it. "it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz Kafka-á |
masternerdguy
The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology Enemy Spotted.
1741
|
Posted - 2014.07.06 19:23:00 -
[45] - Quote
Why is power projection a bad thing? Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6214
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Posted - 2014.07.06 19:31:00 -
[46] - Quote
Falin Whalen wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:GÇóMaking something tedious will not stop players doing it if it's very clearly the best option. They'll do it, and they'll hate it I love that quote, because most people who come up with "brilliant" ideas forget it. Not if it makes all the cfc people doing it quit eve... ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Falin Whalen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
670
|
Posted - 2014.07.06 19:49:00 -
[47] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Falin Whalen wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:GÇóMaking something tedious will not stop players doing it if it's very clearly the best option. They'll do it, and they'll hate it I love that quote, because most people who come up with "brilliant" ideas forget it. Not if it makes all the cfc people doing it quit eve... We'll do it, and we'll hate it, but we'll just keep doing it just to see everybody else say, "F**k it." and quit, out of spite. "it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz Kafka-á |
masternerdguy
The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology Enemy Spotted.
1741
|
Posted - 2014.07.06 19:50:00 -
[48] - Quote
Falin Whalen wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:Falin Whalen wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:GÇóMaking something tedious will not stop players doing it if it's very clearly the best option. They'll do it, and they'll hate it I love that quote, because most people who come up with "brilliant" ideas forget it. Not if it makes all the cfc people doing it quit eve... We'll do it, and we'll hate it, but we'll just keep doing it just to see everybody else say, "F**k it." and quit, out of spite.
And this is why Goons will win EVE. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6214
|
Posted - 2014.07.06 19:54:00 -
[49] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Falin Whalen wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:Falin Whalen wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:GÇóMaking something tedious will not stop players doing it if it's very clearly the best option. They'll do it, and they'll hate it I love that quote, because most people who come up with "brilliant" ideas forget it. Not if it makes all the cfc people doing it quit eve... We'll do it, and we'll hate it, but we'll just keep doing it just to see everybody else say, "F**k it." and quit, out of spite. And this is why Goons will win EVE. why did you have to give it away
Anyway i'm sure the great northern associates can survive just fine ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
5093
|
Posted - 2014.07.06 21:43:00 -
[50] - Quote
Sean Apollo wrote:How about we just wait for CCP to change sov mechanics. Then we can see if "power projection" needs a change
This is no place for logic. GTFO! Bring back DEEEEP Space! |
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Xenuria
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
878
|
Posted - 2014.07.06 22:00:00 -
[51] - Quote
Andski wrote:"Do you think there is a problem with power projection?"
"Yes"
"Therefore my pet solution is what everyone wants"
Maybe if everybody stopped Blueing each other power projection would not require such impractical distances. CSM 9 Candidate Philanthropist Polymath Savant Hero |
Falin Whalen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
673
|
Posted - 2014.07.06 22:58:00 -
[52] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:Andski wrote:"Do you think there is a problem with power projection?"
"Yes"
"Therefore my pet solution is what everyone wants" Maybe if everybody stopped Blueing each other power projection would not require such impractical distances. So your solution to power projection is, for every human in Eve, to stop being human in Eve? Yea, you just get to work on that there idea you got there. "it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz Kafka-á |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
5416
|
Posted - 2014.07.07 00:17:00 -
[53] - Quote
The only change I'd like to see to cyno travel is spool-up time for the cyno beacon and/or the jump drive / jump portal generator.
I don't mind so much that a large fleet of super capitals can travel further, faster than sub-caps using jump gates. What I do mind is that your opponent lights a cyno and suddenly they have an entire fleet on grid with no warning.
Surely a 20 second warm up delay is a decent trade-off for being able to move across the entire cluster unimpeded inside half an hour?
Cyno travel should be a strategic and tactical utility, not a twitch play mechanism.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Lugia3
Intentionally Dense Easily Excited
1002
|
Posted - 2014.07.07 00:59:00 -
[54] - Quote
RAIN Arthie wrote:Napalm sticks to kids.
Man sized bacon strips?
Delicious. "CCP Dolan is full of ****." - CCP Bettik |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1940
|
Posted - 2014.07.07 01:08:00 -
[55] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:Andski wrote:"Do you think there is a problem with power projection?"
"Yes"
"Therefore my pet solution is what everyone wants" Maybe if everybody stopped Blueing each other.
Yeah good luck with that. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Serene Repose
1424
|
Posted - 2014.07.07 06:52:00 -
[56] - Quote
It's the world of measure - counter-measure. If the opposition can move three people in starter frigs, then moving four in t1 frigs is all you need. If they own and deployed a Death Star, guess what? All you need is Luke Skywalker, a voice over from an aging English actor and a beepy robot. Read Sun Tzu then revisit the question.
It's either what works, or what you'd like. It's all dictated by what you're up against. I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility toward every form of tyranny over the mind of man.-á |
Maeltstome
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
500
|
Posted - 2014.07.07 10:19:00 -
[57] - Quote
2 Main issues:
1. Jump Freighters, bridges, etc. It's too easy to restock, resupply and generally keep 0.0 structures running and markets supplied. It's also close to zero risk for experienced, intelligent logistical pilots.
2. Titan Bridging. Giving sub-cap fleets the projection of capitals allows you to instantly throw a fleet into combat. This means no-one will take a fight against anything bigger than a BC, generally because it's a Cyno ready to bridge in 300 friends.
A goon arrived in our space yesterday, flying a Megathron. "How did you get here in a Megathron?!". "Everyone thought i was a Cyno - I've travelled >100 jumps and this is the first fight i got".
That's 0.0 in a nutshell right now. |
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