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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Triakis Cadelanne
Nova Tech Inc.
4
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 13:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello,
I was wondering what's the point of a this, ship that doesn't have the cap to fire with the guns it was designed to use (naturally, you can't even think to use anything else at the same time) ? |
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
641
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 13:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
Having the Kador skin trumps everything. And even so, it is a perfectly fine ship.
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IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
988
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 13:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
Triakis Cadelanne wrote:Hello,
I was wondering what's the point of a this, ship that doesn't have the cap to fire with the guns it was designed to use (naturally, you can't even think to use anything else at the same time) ?
May I introduce you to "Heavy Capacitor Booster II" and his little friend "Cap Booster 800"
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Triakis Cadelanne
Nova Tech Inc.
4
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 13:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
On a med slot that could be used for tracking or sebo on almost any other BS ... |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
988
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 13:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
Triakis Cadelanne wrote:On a med slot that could be used for tracking or sebo on almost any other BS ... If you're flying any Amarr BS I hope you have a cap booster fitted... If not you're going to have a bad day when someone puts a neut on you |
Triakis Cadelanne
Nova Tech Inc.
4
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 14:07:00 -
[6] - Quote
IIshira wrote:Triakis Cadelanne wrote:On a med slot that could be used for tracking or sebo on almost any other BS ... If you're flying any Amarr BS I hope you have a cap booster fitted... If not you're going to have a bad day when someone puts a neut on you
And then, what's the point of piloting an Amarr BS instead of a Gallente or Minmatar BS ? |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
2492
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 14:08:00 -
[7] - Quote
Triakis Cadelanne wrote:IIshira wrote:Triakis Cadelanne wrote:On a med slot that could be used for tracking or sebo on almost any other BS ... If you're flying any Amarr BS I hope you have a cap booster fitted... If not you're going to have a bad day when someone puts a neut on you And then, what's the point of piloting an Amarr BS instead of a Gallente or Minmatar BS ? LAZORZZZZZ!!!
also, if you are getting into a battleship you should have advanced weapon upgrades to 5. "Confirming EVE is hot, batshit crazy, and puts out." -Omar Alharazaad "CAKE CANNOT HOLD UP TO BEING A CHARACTER DAMNIT." --áUnsuccessful At Everything |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
95
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 14:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
Triakis Cadelanne wrote:IIshira wrote:Triakis Cadelanne wrote:On a med slot that could be used for tracking or sebo on almost any other BS ... If you're flying any Amarr BS I hope you have a cap booster fitted... If not you're going to have a bad day when someone puts a neut on you And then, what's the point of piloting an Amarr BS instead of a Gallente or Minmatar BS ? Not losing DPS because your target is further than 10 km from you. Putting 1k DPS out to 30km or more depending on your weapons. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
2492
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 14:24:00 -
[9] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Triakis Cadelanne wrote:IIshira wrote:Triakis Cadelanne wrote:On a med slot that could be used for tracking or sebo on almost any other BS ... If you're flying any Amarr BS I hope you have a cap booster fitted... If not you're going to have a bad day when someone puts a neut on you And then, what's the point of piloting an Amarr BS instead of a Gallente or Minmatar BS ? Not losing DPS because your target is further than 10 km from you. Putting 1k DPS out to 30km or more depending on your weapons. and looking slick while doing it "Confirming EVE is hot, batshit crazy, and puts out." -Omar Alharazaad "CAKE CANNOT HOLD UP TO BEING A CHARACTER DAMNIT." --áUnsuccessful At Everything |
Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
235
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 14:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
This is the problem with the Abaddon:
http://i.imgur.com/U2ml1BC.png
10k EHP is not worth having less range, less DPS, 66% of the speed, a gigantic signature radius that gets destroyed by bombers, and double the cap drain. The cap drain on the Abaddon is so bad you can't even run the guns alone on a medium injector, and you can't fit a heavy injector without two grid mods. |
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Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
95
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Posted - 2014.07.05 14:44:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ok, now try pulses. |
Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
235
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Posted - 2014.07.05 14:59:00 -
[12] - Quote
Abaddon with pulses only has about 5% more DPS than the Megathron with railguns until you're closer than 20km. All the other problems still apply. Scorch L actually does less DPS than CN antimatter on railguns, the Abaddon just has the advantage of one extra gun.
In short, being 5% better from 20km to 50km is not worth being useless past 50km while the Mega shoots all the way to 150 just fine. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
991
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Posted - 2014.07.05 15:53:00 -
[13] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Ok, now try pulses.
146k EHP
649 DPS @ 53+13 with Scorch
909 DPS @ 17+13 with Conflagration
[Abaddon, PVP] Damage Control II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Reactive Armor Hardener Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Warp Disruptor II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Hammerhead II x5 Warrior II x5 |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
96
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 16:13:00 -
[14] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:Abaddon with pulses only has about 5% more DPS than the Megathron with railguns until you're closer than 20km, and if you're that close the Mega should be using blasters, meaning it's vastly superior again. All the other problems the Abaddon has also still apply. Remember, Scorch L actually does less DPS than railguns with CN antimatter, the Abaddon just has the advantage of one extra gun.
In short, being 5% better from 20km to 45km is not worth being useless past 60km while the Mega shoots all the way to 150 just fine. The abaddon also receives much better reps since it has much better resists than your megathron. Your fit only has equal EHP because you have 3 plates rather than 2. Again, the abaddon is a fleet or gang ship, not a solo ship. |
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
642
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 16:23:00 -
[15] - Quote
Now compare the Megathron to every other T1 BS and you will notice a trend.
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RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
828
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 17:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
Triakis Cadelanne wrote:On a med slot that could be used for tracking or sebo on almost any other BS ...
You put the Abby on the field for tank, lots and lots of HP. 150 to 180k EHP is common. It should mostly be used to fight other BS fleets or bigger. In those fights, it won't need a sebo to lock other BS, and it won't need tracking to hit them. It's not built with a lot of extra mids for *stuff*. You get a MWD, Cap Booster, Point, and 1 choice for a utility. Top slots: all guns, I like Pulse personally Bottom slots: all tank, plates and hardeners and a DCII.
I like that fact that fitting is really straight forward and the role is clear. And in a mixed fleet, who is gonna be primary? NOT the Abby.
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Deerin
Federal Navy Special Forces
258
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 17:43:00 -
[17] - Quote
Triakis Cadelanne wrote:Hello,
I was wondering what's the point of a this, ship that doesn't have the cap to fire with the guns it was designed to use (naturally, you can't even think to use anything else at the same time) ?
You amarrian fanboy's need to make up your mind: When there is a cap usage bonus on a ship, you whine it is a useless bonus. When there is none, you whine there is not enough cap.
Lasers are a weapon system that have excellent damage amount and projection capabilities. They can also switch ammo instantly and have no reload problems. This comes at a price of fixed damage type, cap usage and fitting. You can see a similar trend in every other weapon system. They have pros and cons.
Abaddon is awesome in fleets and not awesome alone. It is a fate it shares with many other ships.
If you want an advice, look at t2 cap usage reduction rigs. AFAIK they are cheap and help a lot with cap issues. |
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories Vertical.
651
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 18:00:00 -
[18] - Quote
Rumor is, abaddon rocks at solo-pvp in highclass wolf-rayet systems, fitted with small pulse lasers GÖÑ "I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
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Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
235
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 18:50:00 -
[19] - Quote
RavenPaine wrote:Triakis Cadelanne wrote:On a med slot that could be used for tracking or sebo on almost any other BS ... You put the Abby on the field for tank, lots and lots of HP. 150 to 180k EHP is common. It should mostly be used to fight other BS fleets or bigger. In those fights, it won't need a sebo to lock other BS, and it won't need tracking to hit them. It's not built with a lot of extra mids for *stuff*. You get a MWD, Cap Booster, Point, and 1 choice for a utility. Top slots: all guns, I like Pulse personally Bottom slots: all tank, plates and hardeners and a DCII. I like that fact that fitting is really straight forward and the role is clear. And in a mixed fleet, who is gonna be primary? NOT the Abby.
If you're fighting a "fleet" of battleships fitting a warp disruptor is ridiculous. You are not going to be within disruptor range of your opponents. Fleet fights don't happen at 20km. However, if you somehow did expect to be within 24km of the opponent, why aren't you using a Megathron with blasters? It's obviously far better than the Abaddon at that point.
Warp disruptor is theoretically good in small gang but guess what? Small gang and battleships don't go together anymore since they nerfed warp speeds.
The fact is a Tachyon Abaddon is flat out inferior to a rail Mega in basically every way, and a Pulse Abaddon is only "superior" to the Megathron against a narrow set of ranges (20 to 45km) and even in that range it's only slightly superior on DPS and EHP, and still has the monster cap drain/low speed/gigantic sig problems. On top of that it's useless past 60km and extremely inferior sub-20km where it's going to be competing against blasters. |
Triakis Cadelanne
Nova Tech Inc.
4
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 19:02:00 -
[20] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:If you're fighting a "fleet" of battleships fitting a warp disruptor is ridiculous. You are not going to be within disruptor range of your opponents. Fleet fights don't happen at 20km. However, if you somehow did expect to be within 24km of the opponent, why aren't you using a Megathron with blasters? It's obviously far better than the Abaddon at that point.
Warp disruptor is theoretically good in small gang but guess what? Small gang and battleships don't go together anymore since they nerfed warp speeds.
The fact is a Tachyon Abaddon is flat out inferior to a rail Mega in basically every way, and a Pulse Abaddon is only "superior" to the Megathron against a narrow set of ranges (20 to 45km) and even in that range it's only slightly superior on DPS and EHP, and still has the monster cap drain/low speed/gigantic sig problems. On top of that it's useless past 60km and extremely inferior sub-20km where it's going to be competing against blasters.
Amen |
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Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
235
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 19:24:00 -
[21] - Quote
IIshira wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Ok, now try pulses. 146k EHP 649 DPS @ 53+13 with Scorch 909 DPS @ 17+13 with Conflagration [Abaddon, PVP] Damage Control II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Reactive Armor Hardener Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Warp Disruptor II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Hammerhead II x5 Warrior II x5
Just an FYI, this doesn't actually fit. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
994
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 19:49:00 -
[22] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:IIshira wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Ok, now try pulses. 146k EHP 649 DPS @ 53+13 with Scorch 909 DPS @ 17+13 with Conflagration [Abaddon, PVP] Damage Control II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Reactive Armor Hardener Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Warp Disruptor II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Hammerhead II x5 Warrior II x5 Just an FYI, this doesn't actually fit.
It does fit.... You need a +3 to PG or CPU. Can't remember which.
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Odithia
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
47
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 19:58:00 -
[23] - Quote
Deerin wrote:[quote=Triakis Cadelanne] You amarrian fanboy's need to make up your mind: When there is a cap usage bonus on a ship, you whine it is a useless bonus. When there is none, you whine there is not enough cap. . These bonus are a relic from when the Laser had built in damage mod and were prett much impossible to use on anything not Amarr because they drained too much cap. Now Damage has been normalized across weapon type but Laser still use a lot of cap, it's a big price to pay for being the king of mid range. |
Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
235
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 20:13:00 -
[24] - Quote
Lasers do about 15% more base damage than railguns.
The problem is not lasers, the problem is the Megathron's overpowered 8/4/7 slot layout and the fact that railguns for some unknown reason require so much less PG than artillery or lasers. They're supposed to cost less, but not that much less.
If the Apocalypse and Megathron switched their slot layouts, the Apoc would be the best BS. It wouldn't be by the margin the Mega is now due to the fitting disparity but it would still be the best. |
Korvus Falek
Depraved Corruption Space Wolves Alliance
92
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 21:28:00 -
[25] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:This is the problem with the Abaddon: http://i.imgur.com/U2ml1BC.png10k EHP is not worth having less range, less DPS, 66% of the speed, a gigantic signature radius that gets destroyed by bombers, and double the cap drain. The cap drain on the Abaddon is so bad you can't even run the guns alone on a medium injector, and you can't fit a heavy injector without two grid mods.
No one uses tachs on an abaddon. Thats just silliness. |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
829
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 22:20:00 -
[26] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:
If you're fighting a "fleet" of battleships fitting a warp disruptor is ridiculous. You are not going to be within disruptor range of your opponents. Fleet fights don't happen at 20km. However, if you somehow did expect to be within 24km of the opponent, why aren't you using a Megathron with blasters? It's obviously far better than the Abaddon at that point.
Warp disruptor is theoretically good in small gang but guess what? Small gang and battleships don't go together anymore since they nerfed warp speeds.
The fact is a Tachyon Abaddon is flat out inferior to a rail Mega in basically every way, and a Pulse Abaddon is only "superior" to the Megathron against a narrow set of ranges (20 to 45km) and even in that range it's only slightly superior on DPS and EHP, and still has the monster cap drain/low speed/gigantic sig problems. On top of that it's useless past 60km and extremely inferior sub-20km where it's going to be competing against blasters.
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Triakis Cadelanne
Nova Tech Inc.
4
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Posted - 2014.07.05 23:04:00 -
[27] - Quote
RavenPaine wrote: Which means I fight on a gate or get a warp in on top of them. Then I would TACKLE them and kill them all, with ships fitted for DPS. Now honestly, I never said the Abby is the best ship for that, I'm just saying that it has a use and it's not a bad ship if used in that capacity.
Then you'll tell me how they'll stay under your disrupt range.
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God's Apples
The Tuskers The Tuskers Co.
382
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 23:36:00 -
[28] - Quote
There's no point in an abaddon. Just stop being a peasant and get a Napoc. |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
830
|
Posted - 2014.07.05 23:58:00 -
[29] - Quote
Triakis Cadelanne wrote:RavenPaine wrote: Which means I fight on a gate or get a warp in on top of them. Then I would TACKLE them and kill them all, with ships fitted for DPS. Now honestly, I never said the Abby is the best ship for that, I'm just saying that it has a use and it's not a bad ship if used in that capacity.
Then you'll tell me how they'll stay under your disrupt range.
Your question is hypothetical in nature. Are there 8 of "them"? Are there 50 of "them"? What are "they" flying? Do they scatter like roaches, or align in a parade? If they aren't nano fit, the fastest BS is only 33 MS faster than the slowest BS. That's 330 meters in 10 seconds or 3300 meters in a hundred seconds. IF I don't overheat the point, they still will die if I just trail them. I could give you hypothetical answers all day long, but if "they" don't have tackle fitted, I won't ever lose many ships. And if they don't have tank fitted, I'll kill like, 3 to 1 of the ones I catch.
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Triakis Cadelanne
Nova Tech Inc.
4
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Posted - 2014.07.06 00:41:00 -
[30] - Quote
RavenPaine wrote:[quote=Triakis Cadelanne] Your question is hypothetical in nature.
I could answer, asking you if you know that a 30 m/s difference is way amplified when you use a MWD ? Which mean that your Abe will be slowly walking at about 780 m/s when a Megathron (which is not the fastest BS in the game) will be running at something like 1100 m/s ?
Still hypotetical because the Mega may or may not have a MWD fitted. It may or may not be used by someone with snakes. It may or may not have a Scram + Web + Lucky EC-600 combination so he'll outdamage you easily. You may have one more or one less plate than the Mega.
So, what's more hypotetical in my question than when you say "I'll warp on them, keep them pointed and kill them" ? Are there 8 of them ? Are they 50 of them ? Highly hypotetical stuff :/ |
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