Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 .. 15 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
|
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1782
|
Posted - 2014.07.06 15:34:00 -
[211] - Quote
Thread temporarily locked for some cleaning. ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
Riyria Twinpeaks
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
2020
|
Posted - 2014.07.06 18:40:00 -
[212] - Quote
This was quite the massacre.
I also agree with Jenn aSide's post, although I think a way for the "good guys" to gain some glory from being good guys would be nice, as balanced counterpart for all the stories about heists and ganks and destruction.
I just don't have any idea how to do that without breaking things xD On second thought.. maybe not even with breaking things..
That's a bit off-topic, though, I guess. As I forgot to mention it before in my post replying to the OP: I basically agree with the thread title. New players are important, and they can be a driving force for new ideas and stuff to happen.
But, as I did mention before, that doesn't mean that those new players who clearly want to play a different game (Edit: and who seek to change the game in ways that would reduce the possibility of new ideas and new stories to develop) are critical to EvE.
That's my opinion. |
Chewytowel Haklar
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
18
|
Posted - 2014.07.06 18:41:00 -
[213] - Quote
Skills take forever to train just so I can try new things out which I might find I hate despite prior research. |
Christus Estnatus Hemanseh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
8
|
Posted - 2014.07.06 19:03:00 -
[214] - Quote
I'd swear I posted on a similar thread earlier today, but can't find it anywhere...
Anyway, there I go with my point again.
Getting new players is important, of course, but I think that EVE is an old game, has been around for long and hasn't seen any new content since Apochrypha, and thus it is just running out of people interested to try it with its current set of features.
New features are important because their novelty is a challenge both to new players and old. When wormholes were introduced, nobody knew how to use them, for what, or how. There were no "wormholers", no specialists. A new player could seriously aspire to become a wormholer and find an empty niche, rather than try and become the 2,000th trader in Jita.
New content levels the field for players looking for for a specialization, be them veterans with one or more specializations, or new players with none. |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
3211
|
Posted - 2014.07.06 19:11:00 -
[215] - Quote
In a normal business model, a corporation does cater to newer players to get them to join, and remain in the game. However, CCP is far from a normal corporation.
Very few, if any, other gaming company allows such a small subset of the players demographics to have so much input on game design.
There is a reason that the PCU is down, as well as marketing not trumpeting 11 years of continuous growth, and CCP refusing to release the CSM election data that they have in that past that allowed for subscription calculations.
And this will continue. Crius approaches. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Xavier Liche
ACME Mineral and Gas
79
|
Posted - 2014.07.06 19:12:00 -
[216] - Quote
New people in EVE are like cash.
They flow in, get spent and move on, new "cash" flows in to replace them.
If we ever stopped "spending" our new players on "cheap thrills" this game might really take off, because at it's core it is not an amusement park ride like most other games. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6214
|
Posted - 2014.07.06 19:21:00 -
[217] - Quote
Christus Estnatus Hemanseh wrote:New features are important because their novelty is a challenge both to new players and old. When wormholes were introduced, nobody knew how to use them, for what, or how. There were no "wormholers", no specialists. A new player could seriously aspire to become a wormholer and find an empty niche, rather than try and become the 2,000th trader in Jita.
New content levels the field for players looking for for a specialization, be them veterans with one or more specializations, or new players with none. Super-titans, will be a rare and power specialization?
Xavier Liche wrote:New people in EVE are like cash.
They flow in, get spent and move on, new "cash" flows in to replace them.
If we ever stopped "spending" our new players on "cheap thrills" this game might really take off, because at it's core it is not an amusement park ride like most other games. Then you'd be blobbers, like us... ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
7080
|
Posted - 2014.07.06 21:10:00 -
[218] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:In a normal business model, a corporation does cater to newer players to get them to join, and remain in the game. However, CCP is far from a normal corporation.
So you think 'normal' corporate behavior is the answer? Occupy Wall Street would like to have a word with you when they aren't busy getting high in a drum circle.
That CCP doesn't act like a normal money grubbing "give the people whatever drek they think they want and lets rake in the dough from stupid people" is exactly WHY we like them and the game they maintain. If CCP were a 'normal' corporation our ships would be mounts and New Eden would be an Azeroth knock off.
Quote: Very few, if any, other gaming company allows such a small subset of the players demographics to have so much input on game design.
What small subset. Or are you still clinging to the idea that 'people like you' are in the majority. If that were true, why wouldn't they complain about it like you do?
Quote: There is a reason that the PCU is down, as well as marketing not trumpeting 11 years of continuous growth, and CCP refusing to release the CSM election data that they have in that past that allowed for subscription calculations.
And this will continue. Crius approaches.
Hmm, so you celebrate these things that have gone on for less than a year, but cannot bring yourself to admit that for 10+ years of growth it was the people you obvioulsy don't like (like goons) who drove the game upwards.
The real problem is that CCP did actually listen to some folks like you, they watered down the game inch by inch and now the kinds of people who drove EVE's growth are less likely to find the game enjoyable, while to 'peaceful and cooperative' types that never stick with any game for long are catered to.
Congrats, you're getting BOTH THING you've always wanted, EVE is safer AND dying. |
Remiel Pollard
The Vigilance Institute
3810
|
Posted - 2014.07.06 21:21:00 -
[219] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: Very few, if any, other gaming company allows such a small subset of the players demographics to have so much input on game design.
Bungie. Also, that small subset you're talking about, they're called "EVE's intended audience". You don't scare me. I've been to Jita.
|
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2110
|
Posted - 2014.07.06 21:22:00 -
[220] - Quote
New people or every moron that lacks ability of reading comprehension but has massively developed sense of whine and entitlement?
And to be honest vets can manage to keep subs high enough for CCP to have at least few years of development more. Nobody makes any favors to anybody by subscribing to Eve and nobody owes anybody jack sh!t. Once you got accustomed with Malcanis's law (grammar iz hard, forgive me) all you really can do is shoot every newbie you see. Bleeding hearts are good for Red Cross. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
|
KayleInara
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7
|
Posted - 2014.07.06 21:55:00 -
[221] - Quote
I'm fairly certain that I made three posts in this thread that were relevant tot he topic of new players entering the game and how they are treated, and my words were quite civil. I even refrained from insulting anyone.
Yet, all of those posts are now gone. There is no point in participating in any sort of communication on this forum if that participation is just going to get wiped out on a whim. Oh well, my experiment in venturing into the 'official' forums has been a brief one.
On topic - new players are important to this game. Groups should embrace their new players and nurture them, and some percentage will stay. |
Tixx Enaka
I Like Raccoons
0
|
Posted - 2014.07.06 22:07:00 -
[222] - Quote
Nexus Day wrote:First, I will never understand why people would want people to leave their subscription game. Yet we hear the "maybe EvE isn't for you" or "go play WoW all the time". Do you understand how subscription games are funded?
That is reason number one new players are important to EvE, they pay cash. There are exceptions, but for the most part new players pay for subs. They also pay for plex as wealth accumulation in this game can be very slow at the start. There are veterans who put their money where their mouth is, but for new players it is almost a given.
Reason number two is they buy off the market. They do not come into being in a guild that produces all that their members need. Instead they grind this and that and go to the market to buy the next step in their ascension. There is a reason why items that a bitter vet wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole sell on the market.
But more importantly, imo, new players bring new ideas. In a game that bills itself as a sandbox with extremely limited content provided by the developers new ideas are the only thing that keep this game fresh. Another Hulkageddon or permit scam or insidious corporate takeover or blue donut will not keep people interested for very long. The next big thing will not come from someone with 15000 posts defending things the way they are. It will most likely come from someone just joining the game that says "what if?"
tl:dr give the kid a chance.
I'm relatively new and I say NO to the tl;dr. Why? Because 99% of new players that join have no clue what EvE is and immediately start saying "change this! That's too hard! Let me buy skill points!".
Basically they walk into Burger King and complain there are no Big Mac's. Whiny, entitled, useless kids that want everything their way at the expense of others.
Why don't they just leave and play the myriad of other games that cater to that mentality. Oh right. They get bored.
tl;dr. Stop trying to ruin a game I like. Stop trying to make everything the same. Go play WoW. |
Matilda Cecilia Fock
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
210
|
Posted - 2014.07.06 22:19:00 -
[223] - Quote
Tixx Enaka wrote:Nexus Day wrote:First, I will never understand why people would want people to leave their subscription game. Yet we hear the "maybe EvE isn't for you" or "go play WoW all the time". Do you understand how subscription games are funded?
That is reason number one new players are important to EvE, they pay cash. There are exceptions, but for the most part new players pay for subs. They also pay for plex as wealth accumulation in this game can be very slow at the start. There are veterans who put their money where their mouth is, but for new players it is almost a given.
Reason number two is they buy off the market. They do not come into being in a guild that produces all that their members need. Instead they grind this and that and go to the market to buy the next step in their ascension. There is a reason why items that a bitter vet wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole sell on the market.
But more importantly, imo, new players bring new ideas. In a game that bills itself as a sandbox with extremely limited content provided by the developers new ideas are the only thing that keep this game fresh. Another Hulkageddon or permit scam or insidious corporate takeover or blue donut will not keep people interested for very long. The next big thing will not come from someone with 15000 posts defending things the way they are. It will most likely come from someone just joining the game that says "what if?"
tl:dr give the kid a chance. I'm relatively new and I say NO to the tl;dr. Why? Because 99% of new players that join have no clue what EvE is and immediately start saying "change this! That's too hard! Let me buy skill points!". Basically they walk into Burger King and complain there are no Big Mac's. Whiny, entitled, useless kids that want everything their way at the expense of others. Why don't they just leave and play the myriad of other games that cater to that mentality. Oh right. They get bored. tl;dr. Stop trying to ruin a game I like. Stop trying to make everything the same. Go play WoW.
No my dear, new players who don't like EVE just quit during the trial. They don't want to change anything. They are for the three months run of a mainstream MMO, EVE completely fails to provide that and they quit before even subscribing. This is how EVE has been tried out, according to CCP's own words, by 10 million unique users in 10 years. Q: So many well known dev's left lately, should we be worried? A: (Jester): Nope. (...) Worry a lot if Fozzie, Masterplan, Rise, Veritas, Bettik, Ytterbium, Scarpia, Arrow, or even Greyscale leaves. Worry a little if Punkturis, karkur, SoniClover, Affinity, Goliath, or Xhagen leaves.
|
Yarda Black
Epidemic. Nulli Secunda
220
|
Posted - 2014.07.06 22:22:00 -
[224] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Very few, if any, other gaming company allows such a small subset of the players demographics to have so much input on game design
They actually stopped doing that once. Turned out the small subset was slightly bigger than expected.
Fortunately for CCP they had an excellent reputation and early mechanics created a playerbase with a large number of adults. So after some "burning" everybody hugged each other and all was good again.
You know I tried other "official" forums? Gave it a tenth of what I put moderators here through. Got emo rage mails within minutes. One even banned me.
So yeah. I may disagree about certain changes. But trying to say something actually makes sense in EVE. Somebody may even listen to it. Every once in a while. Thats a pretty fine and difficult line to walk on. I think we should be quite pleased about CCP trying to pull that off. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5436
|
Posted - 2014.07.06 22:23:00 -
[225] - Quote
Just for the record, most of us aren't against new people coming to the game to enjoy the game for what it is. We're against people coming to this game & demanding that things be changed to make it more like a themepark to suit their desires. EVE is not a suitable game for that kind of person, who cares if they leave? This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal & proud member of the popular gay hookup site, somethingawful.com |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5418
|
Posted - 2014.07.06 22:27:00 -
[226] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Just for the record, most of us aren't against new people coming to the game to enjoy the game for what it is. We're against people coming to this game & demanding that things be changed to make it more like a themepark to suit their desires. EVE is not a suitable game for that kind of person, who cares if they leave?
I can't help but think that switching 'new people' with 'bitter vet' in the quoted statement would be as equally accurate. Tell me they haven't already turned null into a themepark.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Lady Areola Fappington
1976
|
Posted - 2014.07.06 22:31:00 -
[227] - Quote
IIRC, I think CCP has mentioned that, they don't even count new accounts as existing, till they've been in the game for 90 days. Takes about that long for a genuine newbie to figure out if EVE is the game for them, or not.
EVE is also the only game I know of, where parts of the playerbase rabidly obsess and care about things like "PCU", "% new player retention", "Profit/loss", "which devs are leaving" and what have you. I mean, you can make numbers say anything you want with the right context. Seems like all anyone is doing when they bring up those numbers, is trying to validate their own viewpoint. I've never seen anyone say "Well, I thought X, but looking at Y PCU, I was wrong."
Really, there's only three "performance metrics" we as normal players need be concerned with. "Is the game still on-line?", "Are there people playing?", and "Is it still worth the price of a sub?"
Anything else is for the accountants at CCP to worry about. This thread officially has 25% more pssssssshhh than leading competitors. Rick Moranis was never put on death row for shrinking his children. New York exists outside the mind of Billy Joel. A French press is not lifting weights with your tongue out. Lena Dunham is not a girl ventriloquist. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5437
|
Posted - 2014.07.06 22:32:00 -
[228] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Just for the record, most of us aren't against new people coming to the game to enjoy the game for what it is. We're against people coming to this game & demanding that things be changed to make it more like a themepark to suit their desires. EVE is not a suitable game for that kind of person, who cares if they leave? I can't help but think that switching 'new people' with 'bitter vet' in the quoted statement would be as equally accurate. Tell me they haven't already turned null into a themepark. Mr Epeen
It depends entirely on the person but the OP was enquiring about new players, not the Dinsdale's. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal & proud member of the popular gay hookup site, somethingawful.com |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5441
|
Posted - 2014.07.06 23:47:00 -
[229] - Quote
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:EVE is also the only game I know of, where parts of the playerbase rabidly obsess and care about things like "PCU", "% new player retention", "Profit/loss", "which devs are leaving" and what have you. I mean, you can make numbers say anything you want with the right context. Seems like all anyone is doing when they bring up those numbers, is trying to validate their own viewpoint. I've never seen anyone say "Well, I thought X, but looking at Y PCU, I was wrong."
When people in EVE claim to care about things such as how high or low the PCU count is & whether CCP is profiting or not, they're always using it as an attempt to prove that their suggestion is correct. Take everyone's favorite conspiracy theorist, Dinsdale as an example. EVE is clearly dying because of PCU counts. Or how about when Ripard made a push for ISK tanking? "CCP will lose profit" was his calling card. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal & proud member of the popular gay hookup site, somethingawful.com |
Lady Areola Fappington
1976
|
Posted - 2014.07.07 00:23:00 -
[230] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Lady Areola Fappington wrote:EVE is also the only game I know of, where parts of the playerbase rabidly obsess and care about things like "PCU", "% new player retention", "Profit/loss", "which devs are leaving" and what have you. I mean, you can make numbers say anything you want with the right context. Seems like all anyone is doing when they bring up those numbers, is trying to validate their own viewpoint. I've never seen anyone say "Well, I thought X, but looking at Y PCU, I was wrong." When people in EVE claim to care about things such as how high or low the PCU count is & whether CCP is profiting or not, they're always using it as an attempt to prove that their suggestion is correct. Take everyone's favorite conspiracy theorist, Dinsdale as an example. EVE is clearly dying because of PCU counts. Or how about when Ripard made a push for ISK tanking? "CCP will lose profit" was his calling card.
Surely true, yes. It gets even funnier when two people, nominally on the same "side (mostly grr goons), use the same datapoint to prove totally opposite theories.
Obviously, the price of plex going up proves both CCP failing, and the nullsec cartels RMTing money. This thread officially has 25% more pssssssshhh than leading competitors. Rick Moranis was never put on death row for shrinking his children. New York exists outside the mind of Billy Joel. A French press is not lifting weights with your tongue out. Lena Dunham is not a girl ventriloquist. |
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
7627
|
Posted - 2014.07.07 00:27:00 -
[231] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Lady Areola Fappington wrote:EVE is also the only game I know of, where parts of the playerbase rabidly obsess and care about things like "PCU", "% new player retention", "Profit/loss", "which devs are leaving" and what have you. I mean, you can make numbers say anything you want with the right context. Seems like all anyone is doing when they bring up those numbers, is trying to validate their own viewpoint. I've never seen anyone say "Well, I thought X, but looking at Y PCU, I was wrong." When people in EVE claim to care about things such as how high or low the PCU count is & whether CCP is profiting or not, they're always using it as an attempt to prove that their suggestion is correct. Take everyone's favorite conspiracy theorist, Dinsdale as an example. EVE is clearly dying because of PCU counts. Or how about when Ripard made a push for ISK tanking? "CCP will lose profit" was his calling card.
How else are they going to push a narrative for change that's fundamentally wrong without tying it to a less completely unpalatable concept? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Arkady Romanov
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
257
|
Posted - 2014.07.07 02:21:00 -
[232] - Quote
All my good posts in this thread got nuked and now I'm sad. |
Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
1941
|
Posted - 2014.07.07 06:56:00 -
[233] - Quote
I'd originally held the position that all new players should be helped and nurtured, so that they can grow the EVE playerbase and make a richer universe for us to interact in. I've vehemently argued with Jenn and others who I'd felt had an inexplicable "throw them in the deep end is good" philosophy.
I now think that the kind of new players is important.
I'm paraphrasing a quote I read (I can't remember where) about the ranking and review process in Silicon Valley tech companies:
In a good culture, A players want to be surrounded by other A players. In a collapsing culture, A players want to be surrounded by B players. .. when everything else is gone .. |
Serene Repose
1424
|
Posted - 2014.07.07 07:04:00 -
[234] - Quote
We've opened recruiting kiosks in the maternity wards of all the world's major hospitals. It's never too early to start your EVE career and we're really after that new blood.
The ever-expanding business model is a self-perpetuating myth. I did that last crack, so I must do this next crack. I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility toward every form of tyranny over the mind of man.-á |
Lady Areola Fappington
1977
|
Posted - 2014.07.07 07:11:00 -
[235] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:I'd originally held the position that all new players should be helped and nurtured, so that they can grow the EVE playerbase and make a richer universe for us to interact in. I've vehemently argued with Jenn and others who I'd felt had an inexplicable "throw them in the deep end is good" philosophy.
I now think that the kind of new players is important.
I'm paraphrasing a quote I read (I can't remember where) about the ranking and review process in Silicon Valley tech companies:
In a good culture, A players want to be surrounded by other A players. In a collapsing culture, A players want to be surrounded by B players.
Nice quote, I like.
Yeah, it's all about the KIND of new player we attract to EVE. EVE has never been a survive on churn style MMO, like other games. CCP makes their buck by attracting long term, dedicated customers while quickly weeding out those unsuitable for the game.
It really blows a certain type of mentality's mind, that a company would choose not to do business with someone. Even worse that said company actively takes steps to make themselves unattractive to the people they don't want business from.
So yup, throw em in the deep end, hope for the best, and encourage the one's who look like they're getting it. It makes our community stronger. This thread officially has 25% more pssssssshhh than leading competitors. Rick Moranis was never put on death row for shrinking his children. New York exists outside the mind of Billy Joel. A French press is not lifting weights with your tongue out. Lena Dunham is not a girl ventriloquist. |
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
292
|
Posted - 2014.07.07 07:31:00 -
[236] - Quote
Well if you drop enough of em' to deep end it will eventually turn in to a shallow end ...
Besides we do need new players, my corp for one is always in for more cannon fodder ...
Though we admittedly prefer the quality fodder over the usual variety. |
Eternity 1
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
9
|
Posted - 2014.07.07 07:50:00 -
[237] - Quote
A portion of the playerbase like to consider themselves as hardcore gaming badasses because they play EVE, and are extremely sensitive to anything which might alter that status, even mere discussion about the nature of EVE and of how it might evolve. CCP are happy to pander to them, which is why you won't see any real change in the way CCP attracts new players. To attract new players you'd need to offer something that EVE doesn't currently offer, and the consequences of that would be a tsunami of bittervet tears. So, the game will continue mostly as it has done before, and that's that. |
Raider Ray
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2014.07.07 08:20:00 -
[238] - Quote
Imho the eve/newbie issue is not that eve itself is flawed as a sandbox game. It simply has no bridge of transition from the mainstream mmo market to itself. Thus, people lose interest within the very first minutes/hours.
More people are needed in the game. So please CCP build station content so that i can walk around at the local pub and have coctails while my corp is wardecked!
|
voetius
BITB Support Services
238
|
Posted - 2014.07.07 08:27:00 -
[239] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:I'd originally held the position that all new players should be helped and nurtured, so that they can grow the EVE playerbase and make a richer universe for us to interact in. I've vehemently argued with Jenn and others who I'd felt had an inexplicable "throw them in the deep end is good" philosophy.
I now think that the kind of new players is important.
I'm paraphrasing a quote I read (I can't remember where) about the ranking and review process in Silicon Valley tech companies:
In a good culture, A players want to be surrounded by other A players. In a collapsing culture, A players want to be surrounded by B players.
I saw that quote in the biography of Steve Jobs by Walter Isaacson (sp?) though it's quite possible that you saw it elsewhere. A good read as well :) |
Maeltstome
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
500
|
Posted - 2014.07.07 08:31:00 -
[240] - Quote
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:What if I can just join a queue and have a 1 vs 1 engagement with a prefit ship of my choosing that I can lose over and over again. Perhaps I can learn faster in such a battle arena without having to lose my ships in the process, but those provided by the queue. :D
EDIt: Oh and you cannot get podded so you can try out various implant configurations without worrying about loosing them.
Not joking, that would kill eve. The 4 hours of searching for a fight is tedious and boring but necesary for the junky adrenaline rush. Remove that and people wont even undock.
It would be an interesting social experiment though: How many people don't give a toss about the many-many-many mechanics and content updates. Instead, how many people just want to kill each other. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 .. 15 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |