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Capt Acid
9th Flotilla
0
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Posted - 2014.07.07 18:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
Moving into a Cerberus then onto command ships. ISO help and Advice.
So for background information I fly mostly in Caldari space and I run L4GÇÖs for fun and profit. My shield, engineering, and missile skills are all 4 or 5. I will be able to fly command ships in around 50 days and that is what I thinking strongly of doing. In the short term I want to try out the Cerberus for a little taste of speed. So now my dilemma. GǪ I have been flying a Tengu for several months now, fantastic ship loved her to death until she died in a fiery gank. (Good fight lads) Now I have been thinking of flying a cheaper or more durable ship. I am casting covetous eyes on the Cerberus the Nighthawk and the Claymore.
I can fly the Cerberus nicely right now but most of the fits I have found on her are for PVP does anyone have any good PVE fits for a Cerberus?
On that note what shredded my Tengu in missions was being cap neutralized or webbed, I have read the Nighthawk can be passive tanked to good effect and I find that very attractive as I frequently must go AFK for those pesky real life interruptions. Does anyone still use them for running L4GÇÖs or is that pass+¬ and a waste of time? Additionally is the Claymore better for tanking and running L4GÇÖs. I love the ClaymoreGÇÖs active tank bonus, its hefty drone bay, and its non reliance on kinetic damage. My corp. mates will also be thankful for the command ship bonus.
So the TL-DR question does anyone have any good L4 fits for the Cerberus and then which ship is better for L4GÇÖs the Nighthawk or the Claymore?
(Also with the semi recent buff to medium rail guns is the vulture any good in PVE? I love its hull)
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Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
236
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Posted - 2014.07.07 19:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
Cruisers are not good L4 ships. Sure, they can do them, but you're generally way overtanked and low on DPS. HAM Tengu maxes out at like 950 DPS with faction BCUs, HAM Nighthawk and Cerberus at around 800 DPS. Rattlesnake with cruise missiles does over 1700 DPS and has about double to triple the effective range of HAM cruisers. |
GreenSeed
1053
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Posted - 2014.07.07 20:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
the cerb pretty good for lvl4s, thanks to its range bonus HAMs work really nice on it but it will take too long. i have used it with a regular t2 fit, MWD, one nano on the lows, two polycarbons on the rigslots. and for tank two passive mission specific resists + small shield booster + boost amp.
the small shield booster seems like pushing it, but it works fine thanks to your speed and resistances. i originally had a small gistii A-Type booster, but after the buff to active tanks this last few patches, t2 is fine. (so long as you have the skills to back it up) you can also use a medium booster, but it will take some cap management, or changing the MWD to an AB.
if its all you can fly, then yeah its better than a poorly trained battleship.
mission time will be long, so i would recommend you to do lvl3s instead, change the polycarbons for two Warpspeed rigs and ungroup the launchers. the cerberus using Heavy missiles can do lvl3s at an amazing speed and will net you more money than any lvl4, even with pimp battleships. (tho it can get kinda dull, even more than lvl4s lol)
as far as command ships go, the nighthawk and the Claymore are pretty terrible at pve now, they have no range bonus and are too slow when compared to a cerberus/tengu and are extremely overtanked. unlike with turret ships, once you fill the lows with damage mods, even if you could tank with only two midslots, there's still nothing to fit on the empty slots that would make things go faster.
command ships are pretty amazing at pve, but no missile CS is, sadly. Sleipnirs, Astartes, EOS, Absolutions, they are great. specially astartes and Sleipnirs, they can destroy lvl4s.
the Vulture has a fantastic Rail Optimal range, but flying solo its damage is pretty anemic and cycle time too long. an astarte will deal about twice the DPS at similar ranges (you will have swap tracking scripts for optimal), and brings a strong active tank bonus instead of wasted extra resistances. also the astarte has 50mb of bandwith and a 75m3 drone bay, paired with arguably the strongest ganglink bonuses, tank and signature/prop speed.
you are looking at easily 1k dps out of 125 signature guns. perfect for lvl4s with their walls of cruisers. be warned though, the darn thing will cycle those railguns as if they were machineguns. with 250mm rails you are looking at 1.8 seconds per shoot :o
still, given infinite SP and ISK, battleships will eventually get better. on paper. not like they can apply their damage properly. |
Zulu Atild
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.07.07 20:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
GreenSeed wrote:still, given infinite SP and ISK, battleships will eventually get better. on paper. not like they can apply their damage properly.
What are launcher rigs and target painters?
I'll take nonsense statements for 1000, Alex. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2051
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Posted - 2014.07.07 21:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
GreenSeed wrote:the cerberus using Heavy missiles can do lvl3s at an amazing speed and will net you more money than any lvl4, even with pimp battleships. (tho it can get kinda dull, even more than lvl4s lol) this statement is hilariously wrong.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories Vertical.
654
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Posted - 2014.07.08 10:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
[Cerberus, Cerberus: Cerb - CN L4s] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
Kinetic Deflection Field II Thermic Dissipation Field II 10MN Afterburner II Gistii A-Type Small Shield Booster Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
L4-cerberus. If you feel scared, can run a pith med booster but it doesn't need it to start with. It's basically a tengu that trades a bit of dps for more range.
Nightmare/Vulture are imo less suited for L4s due to mobility and less projection. "I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
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Capt Acid
9th Flotilla
0
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Posted - 2014.07.08 10:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
Thanks for all the input. With your comments it seems I might be better of just pulling the trigger and buying a Navy Raven (for its damage application) or Flying the nice shiny new Rattlesnake.
1. Can I fit a Navy Raven to be cap stable will a good tank without massacring my Damage Application and DPS? If so anyone have any fits?
2. Can someone share a good passive shield tank'd Rattlesnake, with the new changes is the Rattlesnake finally at lest partially a missile ship, or is it still Mostly Drone with missiles as a bonus. Meaning do I need to micro the heavy drones for max effectiveness or can I just let them play and pop targets with my missiles? My hevey drone skill bairly let me use Heavy II's so this would take more time to be a real option.
3. Which of the two is less gank bait?
Thanks for the Cerberus Fit Ill try it. |
Marc Callan
Nuclear Manhattan Limited
452
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Posted - 2014.07.08 11:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
Cap stability isn't really feasible when you're talking about active-shield-tanked battleships. The most effective tanking method is pulse-tanking, honestly; run the shield booster when your shields get down to about thirty percent, then let your cap recover. Caldari missile battleships are good for this because they can put basically all their capacitor energy into defense, without worrying about weapons fire capping them out.
A Rattlesnake is probably better off using sentry drones as its primary armament, instead of heavies, though I've heard that a Gecko super-heavy drone launched from a Rattler is like a remote-controlled heavy assault cruiser. Missiles are now more effective when launched from a Rattler (provided they're thermal or kinetic missiles), but I'd personally regard them as secondary weapons. Others probably have different opinions on the topic.
A CNR is actually more expensive at the moment than a Rattlesnake, but whether either of them is gank bait is primarily dependent on what sorts of modules you put on them. Either can be made into a fine L4 mission runner using nothing more expensive than Tech II fittings. You can invest in faction or deadspace modules if you like, though I wouldn't bother for anything other than a Dread Guristas shield booster and maybe a couple of faction damage mods. Overloading your fit with deadspace and (shudder) officer fits is the primary path to gank bait. "We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt |
kurage87
EVE University Ivy League
33
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Posted - 2014.07.08 12:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
If you want to passive tank use an SNI.
Passive tanking a RS just completely defeats the purpose of it, it is obscene dps with obscene micro management. Neither of those gel with passive tank.
The passive tank SNI isn't comparable to any active tank Raven/SNI/RNI/RS/Golem of course, but it's much less gank bait and much less expensive than a passive RS. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2051
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Posted - 2014.07.08 17:33:00 -
[10] - Quote
Capt Acid wrote: 1. Can I fit a Navy Raven to be cap stable will a good tank without massacring my Damage Application and DPS? If so anyone have any fits?
no. but neither do you need to. as with all high performance emission ships, tank is barely needed because you are killing things so fast (so much so that i have seriously considered straight up buffer tanking some of my mission ships).
here is a solid and cheap navy raven fit (angels resists, feel free to adapt):
[Raven Navy Issue]
[High Slots] Cruise Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Cruise Missile
[Med Slots] Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Pith B-Type Explosive Deflection Field Pith B-Type Explosive Deflection Field Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Dread Guristas Large Shield Booster 100MN Microwarpdrive II
[Low Slots] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II
[Rigs] Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
[Drones] Warrior II x 20
940dps before drones and implants, oneshots any cruiser or battlecruiser if you paint them and will tank any lvl4 while only spending ~300m on shiny modules.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
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Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
650
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Posted - 2014.07.08 17:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
kurage87 wrote:Passive tanking a RS just completely defeats the purpose of it, it is obscene dps with obscene micro management. Neither of those gel with passive tank.
My RS passive tanks so good, I actually removed some of it to add fun things.
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Glathull
Warlock Assassins
431
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Posted - 2014.07.09 03:32:00 -
[12] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:GreenSeed wrote:the cerberus using Heavy missiles can do lvl3s at an amazing speed and will net you more money than any lvl4, even with pimp battleships. (tho it can get kinda dull, even more than lvl4s lol) this statement is hilariously wrong.
I also suspect that is absurdly wrong. But I would love to hear more from GreenSeed on that topic. Turrents |
Anize Oramara
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
189
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Posted - 2014.07.09 15:38:00 -
[13] - Quote
it probably involves maximizing lp/h for soe by blitzing lv3s. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2056
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Posted - 2014.07.09 15:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:it probably involves maximizing lp/h for soe by blitzing lv3s. been there, done that. the LP payout from lvl3s is nowhere near that of lvl4, no matter how much you optimize. The typical payout of a lvl3 combat mission is in the region of 1500-2000 LP, which means you would have to run about 20 per hour to approach lvl4 numbers. and that's only the LP, payouts and bounties skew the scale even more.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Capt Acid
9th Flotilla
0
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Posted - 2014.07.09 16:43:00 -
[15] - Quote
Wow this has been a very edifying thread for me, thank you for all your responses. Pricing it out I think the Rattlesnake might be the way to go for me especially as I need to AFK for S.H.M.B.O. aggro. Does anyone have a good passive Rattlesnake fit with decent performance? I cant use T2 sentries yet but I will train up to them if the consensus is they are handily better than heavy's and geckos.
Its too bad that the Caldari Command ships are rather anemic right now I would love to fly one. |
Caleidascope
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
525
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Posted - 2014.07.09 18:38:00 -
[16] - Quote
Capt Acid wrote: 1. Can I fit a Navy Raven to be cap stable will a good tank without massacring my Damage Application and DPS? If so anyone have any fits?
Ah! Another Drake pilot.
The answer is: No. Life is short and dinner time is chancy Eat dessert first! |
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
325
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Posted - 2014.07.10 01:38:00 -
[17] - Quote
AFK L4's is not a good idea anymore. Those days are long past.
If you must do it just get a MJD on a RS. Stack the lows with damage mods. Put F.O.F. missiles in your cruise launchers.
Add a drone range augmentor and a drone range rig. 2 omni's for the drones with range scripts. Use wardens. Large faction shield booster. ((XL if you were not afk))
The rest of the fit just resist.
If you still end up shy cap just switch out a mod or 2.
Enter mission jump out 100k and walk away if you dare. Just make sure you handled any trigger issues before you do.
Even without a Sebo you should be able to land full damage at 90k with ease.
I do not recommend this style of play at all but if you must do it that is how it's done. You would do better with a tp and riggor rigs and normal missiles if you can get rid of your AFK aspect.
If you go AFK for long periods the SNI is the better choice as stated by previous poster. Good luck! |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2064
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Posted - 2014.07.10 03:06:00 -
[18] - Quote
towadays, the best AFK ships are arguably marauders, as they have so ludicrously good tanking abilities, you may as well permarun an undersized rep.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Kher Aleer
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.07.11 16:10:00 -
[19] - Quote
HAM or HML Cerb with a small deadspace shield booster. Anything else missiles is as boring as watching paint dry.
If you need to go AFK just warp out, it's the only way to be safe.
Next step after that, considering what you're asking for and that you're into missiles, should be a Golem with Bastion module and a Medium deadspace shield booster like Daniel suggested.
However, I wouldn't advice AFK:ing that for longer than it takes a gang of destroyers to warp into your deadspace pocket. |
stoicfaux
5096
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Posted - 2014.07.11 16:20:00 -
[20] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:it probably involves maximizing lp/h for soe by blitzing lv3s. been there, done that. the LP payout from lvl3s is nowhere near that of lvl4, no matter how much you optimize. The typical payout of a lvl3 combat mission is in the region of 1500-2000 LP, which means you would have to run about 20 per hour to approach lvl4 numbers. and that's only the LP, payouts and bounties skew the scale even more. Sounds right. Mostly. Cherry picking missions could bring level 3s closer to "Ye Olde Level 4s Make 100M/hour" statistic of dubious accuracy.
[Kronos 2014] Machariel: King of Level 3s (86M/isk in assets/hour) ~17 missions/hour
Disclaimer: 31 missions is still a small sample size.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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