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Ka'Narlist
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
178
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Posted - 2014.07.09 12:22:00 -
[31] - Quote
Tippia wrote:It would either change nothing (your navigation computer would make the ship behave the same, it would just look different in exactly when the engines fire and in what direction) This. You tell your ship to stop and it stopps. There is no reason to believe that a futuristic spaceship couldn't automatically countersteer to halt your ships movement completly.
The only benefit something like this could have is saving fuel if you could just stop your engines without telling your ship to automatically stand still. But there is no fuel needed und thus this wouldn't change anything.
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Intar Medris
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
212
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Posted - 2014.07.09 12:42:00 -
[32] - Quote
Lothros Andastar wrote:I think people should be barred from playing the game until they pass an exam on the Lore of the game.
THERE IS A BLOODY REASON WHY THE PHYSICS ARE LIKE THEY ARE. Go read up on the backstory of the game, then come back and apologise for this stupid post that seems to pop up every week.
If you don't like this game, go play something else.
Who pissed in your Cheerios?
I try to be nice and mind my business just shooting lasers at rocks. There is just way too many asshats in New Eden for that to happen. |
Grobalobobob Bob
Hedion University Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2014.07.09 13:10:00 -
[33] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Grobalobobob Bob wrote:12bn isk missioning Marauder.
Wachlisted, More out of hope than anything
Meanie! |
Belt Scout
Thread Lockaholics Anonymous
535
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Posted - 2014.07.09 14:28:00 -
[34] - Quote
Ka'Narlist wrote:Tippia wrote:It would either change nothing (your navigation computer would make the ship behave the same, it would just look different in exactly when the engines fire and in what direction) This. You tell your ship to stop and it stopps. There is no reason to believe that a futuristic spaceship couldn't automatically countersteer to halt your ships movement completly. The only benefit something like this could have is saving fuel if you could just stop your engines without telling your ship to automatically stand still. But there is no fuel needed und thus this wouldn't change anything.
Now there's an idea. All ships should need to fuel up. We could set up gas stations everywhere and fight over the good spots. All the raw fuel would come from some 'desert' planet controlled by a faction that lives 1000 years in the past. After that, the market players could totally ratfuk the price per barrel so it costs an arm and a leg. (Black market for frozen corpses?)
Throw in some free clone health care for the unemployable leeches, and ban all 'assault' ship modules. While we're going for realism, remove all the gate guns between hi and low sec, but put up long fences that will be patrolled by concord, who will fail at the task of preventing pirate border crossings.
How about flooding the giant TV's with space reality shows, and biased news broadcasts.
Any other ideas to make a game more real?
Anyone??
They say most of your brain shuts down on the EvE forums. All but the impatient side, and the sarcastic side. No wonder I'm still awake. |
MHayes
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2014.07.09 14:47:00 -
[35] - Quote
Space does have substance to it and eventually you would come to a stand still. No where near as much as in Eve though. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
2646
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Posted - 2014.07.09 14:53:00 -
[36] - Quote
Grobalobobob Bob wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Grobalobobob Bob wrote:12bn isk missioning Marauder.
Wachlisted, More out of hope than anything Meanie! Confirming I'm a big scary meanie face. Wildly inept granted. "Confirming EVE is hot, batshit crazy, and puts out." -Omar Alharazaad "CAKE CANNOT HOLD UP TO BEING A CHARACTER DAMNIT." --áUnsuccessful At Everything |
Tixx Enaka
I Like Raccoons
0
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Posted - 2014.07.09 14:58:00 -
[37] - Quote
Nose' Feliciano wrote:Quote:EVE's physics engine is based on a 'fluid dynamics model' which assumes that 'space' has some substance to it and thus some friction, this means that with the ship engine turned off you will decelerate, ultimately to a standstill. -wiki How about a more RL model of space? What would it help? What would it break? And how difficult would it be to implement? Personally I would like to fly my spaceship in "space" and not in invisible water.
Poorly thought out question. |
Erin Crawford
131
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Posted - 2014.07.09 15:04:00 -
[38] - Quote
Grobalobobob Bob wrote:Concord suddenly shows up and destroys your 12bn isk missioning Marauder.
You think OMG WTF and Petition CCP.
GM looks at the logs, and approx 1.5 years earlier, whilst in NULL shooting at some grrr goons, you 'missed' with one of your auto cannons..
...the shells took approx 1.5 years to travel through the eve universe, and somehow hit someones bestower in Jita at the same time you were in Tash-Murkon running a level 4 with you super pimp marauder.
Concord sees this as an act of aggression, radios in your whereabouts, and promptly retaliates.
Douglas Adams much? |
Christina Project
Deeper Feelings Inc.
228
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Posted - 2014.07.09 15:07:00 -
[39] - Quote
Erin Crawford wrote:Grobalobobob Bob wrote:Concord suddenly shows up and destroys your 12bn isk missioning Marauder.
You think OMG WTF and Petition CCP.
GM looks at the logs, and approx 1.5 years earlier, whilst in NULL shooting at some grrr goons, you 'missed' with one of your auto cannons..
...the shells took approx 1.5 years to travel through the eve universe, and somehow hit someones bestower in Jita at the same time you were in Tash-Murkon running a level 4 with you super pimp marauder.
Concord sees this as an act of aggression, radios in your whereabouts, and promptly retaliates.
Douglas Adams much? Nice new pic! :D Deeper Feelings Inc. - Selling reality ... as fiction. ;) http://residentoutlaw.tumblr.com - Teaching highsec outlaw survival, combat and ... FASHION! :D sigh... can't even make a proper sig. :/
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Chandaris
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
584
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Posted - 2014.07.09 15:17:00 -
[40] - Quote
no
you can pry my space boat from my cold dead hands. |
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Juan Diolosa
The Nommo
21
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Posted - 2014.07.09 15:30:00 -
[41] - Quote
Tippia wrote:It's the anti-Kzinti lesson: the efficiency of a weapon is directly proportional to its efficiency as a manoeuvring thruster.
Tippia wrote:GǪalso, the more fun way to add realism to the EVE physics model would be to add Brownian motion. Particle theory and Space Cats in the SAME thread?
That's gotta be over 9000!
(PS: Kzinti scatter packs 4tw... Klingon's are wannabe drone users) |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
6059
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Posted - 2014.07.09 16:58:00 -
[42] - Quote
Why DID they say "fluid dynamics" in the first place anyway?
Why not "Your maneuvering thrusters do all the work but are not displayed. The simulation shows a rocket burn when there is none for clarity only"
That is to say, you come to a stop when you dial your speed down because you set your speed to zero, not your engine burn to "none"
Juan Diolosa wrote: (PS: Kzinti scatter packs 4tw... Klingon's are wannabe drone users)
ESG 4tw "Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
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Juan Diolosa
The Nommo
21
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Posted - 2014.07.09 19:47:00 -
[43] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:ESG 4tw Ugh, Lyran! The counter to my drone waves. One ESG equipped ship, okay... I can handle. More than that? pssshhhh... HET 180, extend 50 hexes, disengage. FU Lyrans.
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Nose' Feliciano
105
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Posted - 2014.07.09 21:36:00 -
[44] - Quote
Well, I would at least have EVE acknowledge that gravity exists.
You know, be able to orbit a moon or planet.
Warp to a sun and have it slowly pull you in when you get too close.
That sort of thing. Ladies, you know what they say about guys with big noses right? Heh-heh!! That's right, it means they are either Jewish or Italian.
:P |
Physics Model
State War Academy Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2014.07.09 22:01:00 -
[45] - Quote
Frankly, I don't much like being talked about like this. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5462
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Posted - 2014.07.09 22:05:00 -
[46] - Quote
Physics Model wrote:Frankly, I don't much like being talked about like this.
You seem to hiding an anti-gravity device under your jacket.
Explain that, Ms Physics.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Nose' Feliciano
105
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Posted - 2014.07.09 22:23:00 -
[47] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Physics Model wrote:Frankly, I don't much like being talked about like this. You seem to hiding an anti-gravity device under your jacket. Explain that, Ms Physics. Mr Epeen
Helium breast implants. It's the latest thing. Ladies, you know what they say about guys with big noses right? Heh-heh!! That's right, it means they are either Jewish or Italian.
:P |
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
655
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Posted - 2014.07.09 23:35:00 -
[48] - Quote
I've always thought every ship should have the same terminal velocity in normal space maneuvering. The key differentiations being vector changes depending on mass. Interceptors would hit their top speed roughly as quickly as now, Titans... yeah. Tomorrow.
Barring any actual physics model that isn't just a troll alt, which would ruin EvE as a game. We should be happy we have space unterseeboots online.
Still, I've always thought the game would be more fun using the Freelancer system. By Jove I miss that game.
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
937
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Posted - 2014.07.09 23:58:00 -
[49] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Why DID they say "fluid dynamics" in the first place anyway?
Why not "Your maneuvering thrusters do all the work but are not displayed. The simulation shows a rocket burn when there is none for clarity only"
That is to say, you come to a stop when you dial your speed down because you set your speed to zero, not your engine burn to "none"
Virtually all games, including all combat flight sims, and all civilian flight sims except X-Plane work this way. They have a preset flight model that varies the vehicles performance based on control inputs but no actual "physics" calculations are going on.
X-Plane is the one exception that I know of. In X-Plane you can design something load it into the sim and see if it will really fly in real life or will crash and burn.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23040
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Posted - 2014.07.10 00:18:00 -
[50] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Virtually all games, including all combat flight sims, and all civilian flight sims except X-Plane work this way. They have a preset flight model that varies the vehicles performance based on control inputs but no actual "physics" calculations are going on.
X-Plane is the one exception that I know of. In X-Plane you can design something load it into the sim and see if it will really fly in real life or will crash and burn. I seem to recall that the Falcon series had some actual physics built into it alongside that kind of static modelling, which is how it allowed you to get into proper deep stalls, compression stalls and flat spins. Then again, it was aiming to be an actual combat flight sim series GÇö not an arcade game in disguise like the ones you see today. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
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masternerdguy
The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology Enemy Spotted.
1764
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Posted - 2014.07.10 00:21:00 -
[51] - Quote
Such a fundamental change to the physics model would require a complete rewrite of pretty much the entire game and re-balancing of all content around the new model. I think they have better uses for their time personally.
Besides, truly Newtonian and frictionless environments are kind of boring, and the maneuvers you end up doing come down to spiraling and jousting.
And if you want to simulate realistic orbital mechanics and physics (n body or patched conic model doesn't matter) you'd better read up on your orbital mechanics before you complain about the various counter-intuitive effects that has. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Lina Alar
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
5787
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Posted - 2014.07.10 00:46:00 -
[52] - Quote
Nah, the warp-core-causes-subspace-drag lore works well enough. If you really want to bake people's noodle, how about making the orbital bodies... orbit? Buh-bye bookmarks. An explanation of Eve socialization: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTbgvYPVdXE Lick with your mainGäó |
masternerdguy
The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology Enemy Spotted.
1764
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Posted - 2014.07.10 00:48:00 -
[53] - Quote
Lina Alar wrote:Nah, the warp-core-causes-subspace-drag lore works well enough. If you really want to bake people's noodle, how about making the orbital bodies... orbit. Buh-bye bookmarks.
Bye bye pretty much anything you thought you knew about space flight, as anyone who has ever played Orbiter or more recently Kerbal Space Program can tell you. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23040
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Posted - 2014.07.10 00:49:00 -
[54] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:And if you want to simulate realistic orbital mechanics and physics (n body or patched conic model doesn't matter) you'd better read up on your orbital mechanics before you complain about the various counter-intuitive effects that has. Pff! What's so strange about having to slow down in order to catch up with someone ahead of you? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Greyscale Dash
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
78
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Posted - 2014.07.10 00:58:00 -
[55] - Quote
Nose' Feliciano wrote:Well, I would at least have EVE acknowledge that gravity exists.
You know, be able to orbit a moon or planet.
Warp to a sun and have it slowly pull you in when you get too close.
That sort of thing.
Actually it's pretty damn hard to hit the sun. You have to kill enough orbital velocity that you hit the surface, and that's a lot of velocity.
Remember there are planets that orbit their stars (which are many times the mass of the sun) in 4 day orbits at insane speeds because of how close they are. |
Titania Hrothgar
Nemesis Retribution No Excuse.
78
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Posted - 2014.07.10 02:20:00 -
[56] - Quote
Lothros Andastar wrote:I think people should be barred from playing the game until they pass an exam on the Lore of the game.
THERE IS A BLOODY REASON WHY THE PHYSICS ARE LIKE THEY ARE. Go read up on the backstory of the game, then come back and apologise for this stupid post that seems to pop up every week.
If you don't like this game, go play something else.
No one said they didn't like it. All the world's a stage and all the men and women are the players. |
Titania Hrothgar
Nemesis Retribution No Excuse.
79
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Posted - 2014.07.10 02:32:00 -
[57] - Quote
Eve could have fixed this issue by using a different propulsion system. Perhaps a displacement engine that propelled the ship by moving space around the ship as in the popular show Star Trek. They were able to keep to the physics of empty space while enabling the engines to move and stop the ship in all directions. They used an impulse drive, not Thrusters. They only used Thrusters for minute movements.
I merely PRETEND that my ships have an impulse drive. There's no reason for space to be fluidic. Wormholes take you to far away systems and they can't all be fluidic when Earth's region isn't.
You all can play however you wish and please do. This is simply how I view the game.
I mean think about it- My ships can move so fast that if space WAS fluidic, my ship would be torn apart! It literally moves 9,000 times faster than light at high warp! I have another ship that moves over 10,000 times the speed of light! Not even Star Trek ships could go that fast without the help of a supremely powerful being!
There's no way in hell that my ships are strong enough to withstand that kind of pressure but then blow up when ganked by projectile turrets.
So, yeah... my ships operate on non-standard propulsion and exist in empty space. All the world's a stage and all the men and women are the players. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
937
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Posted - 2014.07.10 03:56:00 -
[58] - Quote
Tippia wrote:I seem to recall that the Falcon series had some actual physics built into it alongside that kind of static modelling, which is how it allowed you to get into proper deep stalls, compression stalls and flat spins. Then again, it was aiming to be an actual combat flight sim series GÇö not an arcade game in disguise like the ones you see today.
Inverted flat spins are the most fun :D
EDIT: The original IL2 series and the unsuccessful sequel IL2: Cliffs of Dover both have very realistic behavior in unusual flight attitudes but neither work by doing actual physics calculations. |
Mithandra
Serene Vendetta Brawls Deep
65
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Posted - 2014.07.10 09:02:00 -
[59] - Quote
Nose' Feliciano wrote:Quote:EVE's physics engine is based on a 'fluid dynamics model' which assumes that 'space' has some substance to it and thus some friction, this means that with the ship engine turned off you will decelerate, ultimately to a standstill. -wiki How about a more RL model of space? What would it help? What would it break? And how difficult would it be to implement? Personally I would like to fly my spaceship in "space" and not in invisible water.
A better question would be why bother.
There's a metric ton of other things that need fixing/balancing/nerfing without ripping the heart out of eve and reprogramming it
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Sodabro
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
466
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Posted - 2014.07.10 09:39:00 -
[60] - Quote
TL;DR - NO BRAKES ON THE **** TRAIN |
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