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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
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CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
4487
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Posted - 2014.07.09 14:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP Delgate Zero brings an update from Team Pirate Unicorns about in-space brackets (brackets being the things that appear when you hover your mouse over something in space) and the future development on tooltips.
You will be able to choose in the updated options menu if you want to see the new 'compact' bracket list or a reworked bounded bracket list. These changes will come with the Crius release on July 22nd. Work on improving tooltips will continue after Crius.
Check out all the details about in-space brackets and future work in CCP Delegate Zero's latest dev blog In-Space Brackets revisited with Crius. CCP Phantom - Senior Community Representative - Volunteer Manager |
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Airi Cho
Dark-Rising Executive Outcomes
4
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Posted - 2014.07.09 14:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
hi!:) |
Wacktopia
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
667
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Posted - 2014.07.09 15:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
[nice] x
Second? -// Public Fleets: http://fleet-up.com/Operation/Public //- |
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
43
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Posted - 2014.07.09 15:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
Is this the first step to giving us some form of customised ui ?
Id like the option to remove some the unnessasary clutter.
And example : when i warp to a destination i do not need 4 seperate ui elements telling me im warping to that location
- overview - selected item window - warping to destination notification - left side route map.
I need One i do not need Four !
This is but one example of the same information on multiple ui elements overlap that has crept into eve.
we need customised ui --> so we can have less cluttered but more useful ui !
"... ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new... thats where is eve placed... not in cave..."-á| zoonr-Korsairs |-á QFT ! |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
1214
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Posted - 2014.07.09 15:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
Thank you. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
1285
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Posted - 2014.07.09 15:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
Kindly do the equivalent of: td vertical-align = top
So everything actually lines up.
Ta |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
12185
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Posted - 2014.07.09 16:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
Neato. Bracketso.
/c
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
2647
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Posted - 2014.07.09 16:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
good work, love to see ye listen to us.
"Confirming EVE is hot, batshit crazy, and puts out." -Omar Alharazaad "CAKE CANNOT HOLD UP TO BEING A CHARACTER DAMNIT." --áUnsuccessful At Everything |
TheMercenaryKing
StarFleet Enterprises Intrepid Crossing
245
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Posted - 2014.07.09 16:20:00 -
[9] - Quote
Still waiting for roman numerals so items are not sorted IX before VI and such. |
Absent Sentry
7
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Posted - 2014.07.09 17:25:00 -
[10] - Quote
Looks neat, but can you please also prevent brackets from moving with Camera Shake? I have been advising oldies and newbies alike to disable Camera Shake for years because it makes it impossible to click brackets while landing or getting hit by missiles, preventing us from selecting the right thing quickly and possibly getting us killed or missing a kill. |
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Iris Bravemount
Eldar Army
343
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Posted - 2014.07.09 18:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
While you are taking a look at brackets, could you please make it possible to turn off all brackets, including the brackets on locked targets? "I will not hesitate when the test of Faith finds me, for only the strongest conviction will open the gates of paradise. My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity." - Paladin's Creed |
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
237
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Posted - 2014.07.09 21:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
The compact brackets certainly look cleaner. Thats good. Looking forward to more control over pop-ups.
Absent Sentry wrote:Looks neat, but can you please also prevent brackets from moving with Camera Shake? I have been advising oldies and newbies alike to disable Camera Shake for years because it makes it impossible to click brackets while landing or getting hit by missiles, preventing us from selecting the right thing quickly and possibly getting us killed or missing a kill.
Yeah, that is annoying. I noticed that the last time I played on the test server. I keep it turned off on Tranquility, camera shake makes me want to spew. |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective
1223
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Posted - 2014.07.09 21:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
Custom, player-made brackets for player ships are still working, but I could see that the font seems to have changed a little. Now I understand why, you were working on brackets
Nice work indeed. Signature Tanking - Best Tanking. Beware the french guy!
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Emiko P'eng
109
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Posted - 2014.07.09 22:02:00 -
[14] - Quote
Much Better.
Your heading in the right direction |
Alexis Nightwish
State War Academy Caldari State
19
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Posted - 2014.07.09 22:29:00 -
[15] - Quote
CCP Delegate Zero wrote:We are capping the list at 15 items in both modes, which reflects the pre-existing cap on the bracket listing. To raise this number carries with it some concerns regarding performance and we donGÇÖt believe there is a strong case for a higher number as things stand. The balance of feedback was against scrolling in the bounded mode and this again factors in the decision to cap the number at a manageable set of items.
Please explain how this is a performance concern. The client already has the information (name, distance, etc.) of the objects, it's just a matter of displaying it in a new spot.
Long gone are the days where 15 would be enough for you to see everyone in the enemy blob. I am aware that you wouldn't be able to list 100s of ships, but why not let us choose the amount, and if the list is truncated because there's not enough screen real estate so be it. |
Kusum Fawn
State Protectorate Caldari State
498
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Posted - 2014.07.09 22:59:00 -
[16] - Quote
Just a note, Camera shake is annoying, so is the slight motion that the screen still ahs even with camera shake turned off.
why do we still have a slight rolling motion ? are we in space submarines that are being moved by tides? Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
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Skalle Pande
Teknisk Forlag
71
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Posted - 2014.07.09 23:47:00 -
[17] - Quote
Looking forward to seeing these new lists, looks to be an improvement.
But THIS:
Quote:Now that this has been done, we will look at improving the experience with tooltips in later releases. In that regard we are looking at configuring tooltip behavior by category, which we think would allow for you to tune how tooltips display based on the relevance of the information to you. Now, that would be truly awesome |
Skalle Pande
Teknisk Forlag
71
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Posted - 2014.07.09 23:50:00 -
[18] - Quote
Kusum Fawn wrote:Just a note, Camera shake is annoying, so is the slight motion that the screen still ahs even with camera shake turned off.
why do we still have a slight rolling motion ? are we in space submarines that are being moved by tides? But of course we are. Space in EVE is a viscous matter, ships not powering are losing speed rapidly. But tides - no, gravity has been turned off, as have all the rest of newtonian physics...
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Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
830
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Posted - 2014.07.10 07:19:00 -
[19] - Quote
Quote: Now that this has been done, we will look at improving the experience with tooltips in later releases. In that regard we are looking at configuring tooltip behavior by category, which we think would allow for you to tune how tooltips display based on the relevance of the information to you.
FINALLY !!!
After countless mentions of this, the idea has finally sunk in.
ItGÇÖs only been 2 months since this disaster started, letGÇÖs see if we can get this done by Xmas (2014 preferably).
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Megumi Miura
The Council Evictus.
2
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Posted - 2014.07.10 10:37:00 -
[20] - Quote
Great, looks good.
Now, how about a toggle for radial menus? I think radial menus are a PITA and would much appreciate the ability to turn them off. |
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CCP Delegate Zero
C C P C C P Alliance
150
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Posted - 2014.07.10 11:31:00 -
[21] - Quote
Alexis Nightwish wrote:CCP Delegate Zero wrote:We are capping the list at 15 items in both modes, which reflects the pre-existing cap on the bracket listing. To raise this number carries with it some concerns regarding performance and we donGÇÖt believe there is a strong case for a higher number as things stand. The balance of feedback was against scrolling in the bounded mode and this again factors in the decision to cap the number at a manageable set of items. Please explain how this is a performance concern. The client already has the information (name, distance, etc.) of the objects, it's just a matter of displaying it in a new spot.
The gist of why it is a performance concern is that regardless of most information being primed for display, there is still an expense when constructing the bracket list as the picking logic has to iterate over the objects in the scene to confirm whether or not they intersect with the bracket that is at the 'pick point', so to speak. The longer the list to be constructed, the more times the loop has to be iterated to determine whether an object's bracket should be added to the list.
This is a bigger concern the more objects are actually in the scene, which seems to be the use case in question.
In short, the bracket list, by its nature, is not doing quite the same thing as the overview (the obvious other object list to compare it with), and the overview is of course doing its work as well. I am not the UI programmer here and I am giving a rough explanation. But it is based on what programmers tell me and I trust their experience and judgement.
I'll also note that display of UI elements is not free. It's not 'just a matter of displaying it'. Not all information to be displayed in the constructed list is necessarily primed in the exact format to be used. There are always expenses involved and these will necessarily mount up the more display items there are.
Best judgement on our part is that the balance of performance, useful display and typical use cases for the bracket list is still in the 15 item range.
I personally think going much beyond that would call for some deeper design work and likely some optimization deep dives too. We're not addressing that at the moment given that the overview is still the go-to interface element for managing information on large numbers of objects.
Thanks. CCP Delegate Zero | Game Designer | @CCPDelegateZero |
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Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
1292
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Posted - 2014.07.10 11:56:00 -
[22] - Quote
Hmm, maybe I read that wrong, are you saying that building the list requires something other than O(n) complexity for the picking, prior to ordering? |
Crazy KSK
Tsunami Cartel
93
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Posted - 2014.07.10 12:38:00 -
[23] - Quote
the black boxes are certainly nice for people with bad eye sight but for me they are just annoying since they block whatever might be behind it the old system also allowed you to see to which celestial a ship was warping to, I don't see this iteration re-enabling that, (?) which makes this iteration still worse then the old system Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.
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CCP Delegate Zero
C C P C C P Alliance
150
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Posted - 2014.07.10 15:04:00 -
[24] - Quote
Sentient Blade wrote:Hmm, maybe I read that wrong, are you saying that building the list requires something other than O(n) complexity for the picking, prior to ordering?
No, not really. Just making the point that the higher the cap the more likely it is to not reach the cap and therefore check every object in the scene before it stops iterating. As I say, then there is the cost in displaying the information which of course is changing in real time, together with the fact that the cursor is likely moving a lot - which means there will be a lot of tear down and reconstruct going on. It all adds up.
In any event, it's one factor contributing to our judgement as to what works in terms of this feature. It's worth noting that the picking is quite a bit more conservative now so the field of brackets has to be pretty dense and the camera zoomed out some way to get a full list. Which, again, I'd have to say takes it into the overview's territory.
We will keep an eye on things but as I indicated in the blog, we're pretty happy with where it is and will be looking at tooltips proper again as part of our next work CCP Delegate Zero | Game Designer | @CCPDelegateZero |
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Skalle Pande
Teknisk Forlag
72
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Posted - 2014.07.10 22:16:00 -
[25] - Quote
CCP Delegate Zero wrote:Sentient Blade wrote:Hmm, maybe I read that wrong, are you saying that building the list requires something other than O(n) complexity for the picking, prior to ordering? No, not really. Just making the point that the higher the cap the more likely it is to not reach the cap and therefore check every object in the scene before it stops iterating. As I say, then there is the cost in displaying the information which of course is changing in real time, together with the fact that the cursor is likely moving a lot - which means there will be a lot of tear down and reconstruct going on. It all adds up. In any event, it's one factor contributing to our judgement as to what works in terms of this feature. It's worth noting that the picking is quite a bit more conservative now so the field of brackets has to be pretty dense and the camera zoomed out some way to get a full list. Which, again, I'd have to say takes it into the overview's territory. We will keep an eye on things but as I indicated in the blog, we're pretty happy with where it is and will be looking at tooltips proper again as part of our next work Sounds like a very sensible explanation - and decision - to me :-) |
Gaijin Lanis
Surely You're Joking
111
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Posted - 2014.07.11 00:42:00 -
[26] - Quote
That's... nice.
I mean the original system with a drop shadow or even a single pixel worth of black border on text would've been ideal, but this is definitely a step in the right direction to correcting the botched tooltip update. The above was written and posted with nothing but love in my heart for all. |
Logicycle
Chaos Gate Northern Associates.
89
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Posted - 2014.07.11 03:35:00 -
[27] - Quote
This looks good. Nice works, go Team Fluffy Unicorn. |
Mag's
the united
17689
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Posted - 2014.07.11 11:32:00 -
[28] - Quote
As long as you give me options in regards to tooltips, then I will like the changes.
These options should include ways that make me able to completely delay certain types of tips, that really are not required with experienced players.
Thank you for admitting your mistakes.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Pic'n dor
Epsilon Lyr Mordus Angels
25
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Posted - 2014.07.12 08:20:00 -
[29] - Quote
Sometimes you got a huge list of object in the bracket.. Sometimes, more that you can actually display.. Can you make a scrolling feature in these brackets ?
Same issue sometimes with the overview selection. The list may contain more items that the game can display.. |
Marian Devers
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
45
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Posted - 2014.07.12 09:02:00 -
[30] - Quote
So whats the plan when a battleship warps to Asteroid belt #16? |
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