Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 .. 17 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 31 post(s) |
Josh Cox
FC Build 'n Trade
10
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 02:07:00 -
[181] - Quote
I'd like to add my voice into the group of folks requesting a skillpoint refund for this.
As it standands now, Material Efficiency affects everyone who does industry. Even if this bonus were reduced and not removed, it would still affect everyone equally. By removing this skill and replacing it with the new skill at level V, you've handed an advantage only to the minority of players who scale their industry very large (ie. running lines 24/7); the rest of us (who do not run lines 24/7) are given a bunch of wasted time/skillpoints instead.
I say you refund it, and those who would actually use the new skill properly will put all their points into it. The rest of us will put them towards something for useful than saving 5% of the time that we weren't using to begin with. |
Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 02:13:00 -
[182] - Quote
Hi CCP,
To me, reassignment of SPs to a lesser skill has more of a devaluing effect in my mind than reimbursement. We've lived through both - reimbursement for learning skills (so we know it's possible), and drone skill nerfs that just happened.
I think you'll find it more palatable for us (me..) if the skill does a 2-3% time reduction per level. The ME skill gave a guaranteed performance adjustment - even if the TE skill is not able to make it guaranteed, it should allow a decent enough window to take advantage of it. |
James Dean Rockafella
Catastrophic Operations Black Pearl Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 02:50:00 -
[183] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Hi everyone, - We don't want to have skills that are as in-practice mandatory as the old Material Efficiency skill in the Industry skillset - skills are supposed to be about specialization, not about jumping through hoops
Why is it being mandatory a problem? Are all industry skills going to be reshuffled when they become proliferated to an extent that allows a majority of the market to sell at lower price?
|
Throwaway Sam Atild
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
12
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 02:50:00 -
[184] - Quote
Rust Connor wrote:My biggest issue is: do we need more reduction on production time?
...
So my incredible unpopular suggestion is: If you want to give us a new time reduction skill, first increase production time on all blueprints so that we get a similar level of industrial production output. =)
This man has it right!
T2 production times on modules have been cut in Crius by 50% or more. There's not enough work to go around as it is, and chopping off an additional 5% of that work is a terrible idea.
You can't remove all the barriers to production while simultaneously reducing the amount of production to be done! It's a shame that this is happening in the first place and that it's all 'too late to change', and hacking off another 20th is only going to make it worse. |
Rapscallion Jones
Omnibus Solutions
34
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 04:00:00 -
[185] - Quote
Querns wrote:Given that the skill is required at 5 to inject Capital Construction, I am even less convinced that a refund is a good idea. The utility of the skill goes from "a hard requirement to compete in industry, period" to "the thing you need to train in order to get into capital construction."
Oh, I get it! You're saying it's the Advanced Spaceship Command of the industrial field. |
Ohemgeez MyNameWontFi
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 04:11:00 -
[186] - Quote
Rapscallion Jones wrote:Querns wrote:Given that the skill is required at 5 to inject Capital Construction, I am even less convinced that a refund is a good idea. The utility of the skill goes from "a hard requirement to compete in industry, period" to "the thing you need to train in order to get into capital construction." Oh, I get it! You're saying it's the Advanced Spaceship Command of the industrial field.
or the removal of combat drones operation + scout drone operation changed to drone avionics + scout drone opeeration + medium drone operation.
don't hold you're breath guys, no SP will be refunded and/or reimbursed. don't be selfish, your advantage is less important to the betterment of the game. |
Wolf Kraft
Underground Smellroad
4
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 04:18:00 -
[187] - Quote
Querns wrote:Wolf Kraft wrote:The only people that this skill will truly help, are those handful of individuals that run industry jobs 24/7 without interruption on all 11 jobs or if you produce capitals/supers. If you have more than an hour of dead time in between jobs each day (or 11hrs on a single job) on a single character, this skill very quickly becomes useless for the amount of SP required for V. Whereas with a single account, where you can have 33 jobs running, now that the line limit is being removed you can centralize all those characters into a single station of your choosing that has the necessary services. That itself is going to be a much more significant way to save time because now you're greatly simplifying the logistics of moving materials and products around while you're actually playing the game. Barring that, this allows industrial corporations to benefit from this centralization as well.
Like I said, this was a skill that needed to be changed. However, this is not a good way to change it. Especially considering they could have adjusted the skill to interact with the new team dynamic that's being introduced with the industry changes. Do they not have multiple runs where you live? Most of my jobs take five to seven days to run.
Over the course of those 5-7 days, you are saving a whopping ~6-8hrs. Presuming your industry jobs aren't already sitting idle for that amount of time during the week, under what circumstances is that marginally faster build time going to make or break your industry character(s)? How does a quarter of a day faster production time during a week give you an advantage that can't be easily done done by some other means? Going a step further. With that amount of time saved, for the jobs you run, you only gain 2-3 extra completed jobs over the course of a year. You could train basic industrial skills in a day on a PvP character, jump clone to your industrial station to run a single job a month for a year and receive a much greater return on the SP invested.
To touch back on your previous comment though, just because you can get products to market marginally faster doesn't mean the product itself is actually going to sell faster. |
Rapscallion Jones
Omnibus Solutions
34
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 04:23:00 -
[188] - Quote
Ohemgeez MyNameWontFi wrote:Rapscallion Jones wrote:Querns wrote:Given that the skill is required at 5 to inject Capital Construction, I am even less convinced that a refund is a good idea. The utility of the skill goes from "a hard requirement to compete in industry, period" to "the thing you need to train in order to get into capital construction." Oh, I get it! You're saying it's the Advanced Spaceship Command of the industrial field. or the removal of combat drones operation + scout drone operation changed to drone avionics + scout drone opeeration + medium drone operation. don't hold you're breath guys, no SP will be refunded and/or reimbursed. don't be selfish, your advantage is less important to the betterment of the game.
No. those were a name change and skill split, nothing like this. Advanced Spaceship Command confers no bonus to capital ships at levels below 5 because it must be at level 5 to fly them. our Goonly friend insists that it can't be changed because its mandatory at 5 for Capital Ship Construction. I do see a theme here, apparently anything related to capitals requires a skill at level 5 that confers no value at levels 1-4. |
Laendra
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
51
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 04:47:00 -
[189] - Quote
CCP really knows how to **** up this game. I mean really, what is the driver for making Refining a very specialized, time-intensive profession, yet Manufacturing is so easy that a two year old ******** child could do it on day 1 of playing EVE?
CCP, you really need to pull your heads out of your asses...they're not hats... |
Klyith
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
98
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 05:04:00 -
[190] - Quote
If you can't think of anything better to do, a possible compromise solution might be to lower Material Efficiency / Advanced Industry's rank to 2 and refund the difference in SP. You wouldn't even need to do it at Crius release, just announce it as a planned change for an intermediate patch or the next 6 week content patch. It would be some sort of sop for the players who trained it recently in anticipation of playing with the new industry. Still not at all worth the SP for many of them, but they get a little something.
The other possibility would be to swap out the bonuses from Industry and Advanced Industry (maybe 2% and 3% respectively), because that 1% per level is kinda insulting. That one you'd need to get into Crius immediately though.
This is the first Crius Complaint (tm) that has some real weight to it, not just the fretting of players who never dealt with change before. You may hate giving out SP refunds, but this is a case that comes closer to Learning (giant rebalance of old systems, a skill left with no real purpose or value) than anything since. It deserves consideration. |
|
Khori Renalard
Those Once Loyal
17
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 05:38:00 -
[191] - Quote
Bloody hell.
I'm on board with getting rid of a mandatory skill, lowering the barrier of entry and all that. I'm cool with it.
This 5% time reduction as a replacement for what is currently a mandatory skill point investment, and to call it equal, is ******* ********. No one, save capital/supercapital builders are going to give two fucks about a 5% build time reduction until it's possible to queue up a hundred jobs and have them execute in batches of 10/11/howeverthefuckmanyslots.
This just reeks of half assing things. If something reasonably useful can't be thought of to replace it, delete the ******* skill and be done with it. I don't care about a skill point reimbursement at this point. |
Rapscallion Jones
Omnibus Solutions
34
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 06:31:00 -
[192] - Quote
TLDR: CCP has got to fix its communication problem on this expansion.
In my opinion, CCP has lost sight of the importance of clear communication. This expansion has experienced poor communication from the very beginning with the two+ week series of staged proposals that served to only to frustrate a very large number of people. The most recent example is this 11th hour change to the Material Efficiency skill.
Yes, there have been several Dev Blogs that glossed over the upcoming expansion, but they have not touched on the root CHANGES that are being made, instead concentrating only on the shiny new interface. Don't get me wrong, I love the new UI, but the dev blogs have barely touched on these core game play changes in any detail.
A quality big change dev blog should be like this: Quality Dev Blog by CCP Fozzie in 2012. It should be posted early, updated when changes are made and always posted in the DevBlogs section where the information can be easily located.
Instead we've had:
- Yo-yoing on stacking of labs and arrays only to say "nah it's too hard." Its buried on page 12 of 18 here.
- Material Efficiency - people are right to be upset about this change. Its a radical change to a long training time skill that confers no value to 95% of those who are being stuck with it. This one wasn't even announced, just quietly slipped in and noticed by an astute player.
- Scientific Networking - This skill change makes little sense based on the devs on statements of intent. According to the devs plan, high value BPOs (battleships, capitals, etc.) are not expected to be researched in a POS lab, yet these BPOs are the very ones that most benefit from the time bonuses conferred by a POS lab. While this was communicated upfront in April, its implementation conflicts with the devs stated goal.
- Arrays/Labs/Large Towers - there's going to be a glut in this market of epic proportions, the devs realize this and yet we still have not seen a solution or even a proposal to deal with this. The devs recognize a solution is necessary as stated here.
I was around for the Learning skills reimbursement. I don't recall a single player feeling their skills were devalued by the reimbursement, there were several other small reimbursements later on and the same can be said for them. If anything, reimbursement communicates value to the players. This draconian, live-with-it attitude does not. In my opinion reimbursement is in order in this instance unless you intend to provide a meaningful benefit to the re-purposed skill. I can accept, we don't have time to fix this before next week. I get that, if so postpone the reimbursement for a later date, do what needs to be done and communicate it up front.
The rationale of "we don't want to do that" and "it's too late" is not going to go over well. It's been my observation over six+ years of playing this game that less than 10% (an uneducated guess) read the forums and even fewer read the F&I sub-forum. When the changes hit Tranquility there are going to be a lot of dumbfounded players.
I love this this game, and I miss the open communication we had as recently as a year ago. Go back to clear communication, quit hiding changes deep in one of the numerous threads of the Test Server sub-forum. Communicate upfront with us, stop waffling on issues and then saying, 'its too difficult so never mind' or 'live with it.' I really liked the Inferno era CCP that communicated clearly and consistently with its players, stop drifting into Incarna territory. |
Mhari Dson
Lazy Brothers Inc
106
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 07:11:00 -
[193] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Hi everyone,
Here are some bullet points: - Sorry for the delay in keeping up with this, we've been busy :/ - We're aware of the unhappiness being expressed here - We don't want to have skills that are as in-practice mandatory as the old Material Efficiency skill in the Industry skillset - skills are supposed to be about specialization, not about jumping through hoops - We are very keen to avoid doing refunds *wherever* possible, hence the desire to repurpose this skill rather than delete it (reasons: we dislike skillpoint reassignment as the act of reassignment incrementally devalues the perceived value of skillpoints accumulated over time; and deleting and refunding requires a fairly substantial investment to write the necessary DB scripts, run upgrade tests and correct any errors, and time we can reduce for work on things we don't want to do allows us to spend more time on work on things we do want to do; this is an imperfect statement of our position as I'm writing it on the fly to give you an approximate idea of *why* we don't want to do a refund here, but the statement that we don't want to do a refund *is* essentially perfect and out of scope for discussion in this thread, much as you may unfortunately disagree with it.) - We are in any case too close to the release to implement a refund at this time, and that is a non-disputable statement of fact precluding us from doing so even if we wanted to (which we don't) - We are aware that you're are unhappy with how far the new skill is moving from its original value proposition, and we'll have another look at it this week. *If* we decide to make changes, they may not be viable for the initial Crius release, but would be unlikely to trail by more than a week or two - We're not delaying the release for this issue; I assume everyone understands that but it's always better to be explicit :)
Since I don't produce capitals or capital parts or produce 24/7, this skill becomes utterly and completely useless to me.
Derail crius if you have to but your response is unacceptable.
and get your boss involved in this thread. |
Trademaster Rob
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
8
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 07:44:00 -
[194] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Hi everyone,
Here are some bullet points: - Sorry for the delay in keeping up with this, we've been busy :/ - We're aware of the unhappiness being expressed here - We don't want to have skills that are as in-practice mandatory as the old Material Efficiency skill in the Industry skillset - skills are supposed to be about specialization, not about jumping through hoops - We are very keen to avoid doing refunds *wherever* possible, hence the desire to repurpose this skill rather than delete it (reasons: we dislike skillpoint reassignment as the act of reassignment incrementally devalues the perceived value of skillpoints accumulated over time; and deleting and refunding requires a fairly substantial investment to write the necessary DB scripts, run upgrade tests and correct any errors, and time we can reduce for work on things we don't want to do allows us to spend more time on work on things we do want to do; this is an imperfect statement of our position as I'm writing it on the fly to give you an approximate idea of *why* we don't want to do a refund here, but the statement that we don't want to do a refund *is* essentially perfect and out of scope for discussion in this thread, much as you may unfortunately disagree with it.) - We are in any case too close to the release to implement a refund at this time, and that is a non-disputable statement of fact precluding us from doing so even if we wanted to (which we don't) - We are aware that you're are unhappy with how far the new skill is moving from its original value proposition, and we'll have another look at it this week. *If* we decide to make changes, they may not be viable for the initial Crius release, but would be unlikely to trail by more than a week or two - We're not delaying the release for this issue; I assume everyone understands that but it's always better to be explicit :)
This is like saying: "We don't care much about what the community thinks, we are going to-do what we want to-do anyway. Maybe, but probably not, we will fix it or if we wait long enough the problem will go away" I also understand deadlines and the pressure it brings (I have an IT job). But if something is fundamentally wrong, and I would just go ahead and release it anyway.... Well lets just say my boss wouldn't be happy to say the least. |
Setsune Rin
Collapsed Out Overload Everything
207
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 09:12:00 -
[195] - Quote
Trademaster Rob wrote:This is like saying: "We don't care much about what the community thinks, we are going to-do what we want to-do anyway. Maybe, but probably not, we will fix it or if we wait long enough the problem will go away" I also understand deadlines and the pressure it brings (I have an IT job). But if something is fundamentally wrong, and I would just go ahead and release it anyway.... Well lets just say my boss wouldn't be happy to say the least.
i don't like it any more then you do, but this is something that can be put off for later
crius overall is more important then this silly skill
but it will need to get fixed in the first point release |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1371
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 09:14:00 -
[196] - Quote
No SP refund. Their was no refunds during ship balancing. HTFU themepark carebears! The Tears Must Flow |
Setsune Rin
Collapsed Out Overload Everything
207
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 09:20:00 -
[197] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:No SP refund. Their was no refunds during ship balancing. HTFU themepark carebears!
none of the battleships were turned into shuttles either, which is the comparative equivalent in this case.
get out with your horrible attempts to compare to previous cases |
Khiluale Zotakibe
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 10:34:00 -
[198] - Quote
asteroidjas wrote:Luscius Uta wrote: This is like changing Rapid firing or Surgical Strike to give 1% bonus to Turret Falloff per level This. Sooo this. Also, i would probly be more okay with this change if it didn't also mean that all items will increase by 25% in material costs (atleast), on top of it only saving 72 minutes a day, trained to lvl 5. Only saving 14 minutes a day more than it would at lvl 4. (at a cost of how long to train it to 5?) How many industrialists actually keep all their lines running 23/7...? I know i sure don't. If this was changed to a more substantial bonus, then maybe i could get behind it. And about 'specializing" through skills. How exactly does this accomplish that? Explain please. How is one more "specialized" by having trained this skill from 2% to 3%?
I agree, at least make it more substantial like 5 to 10% time reduction per level so that we end up with NPC station production times lower than we actually have, not higher. |
Medalyn Isis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
287
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 11:08:00 -
[199] - Quote
I agree with the sentiment expressed here. 1% per level seems like it was just added as an afterthought.
How about Industry gives 3% per level, then advanced industry gives 2% per level.
Current @ Lvl V = 0.8
New @ Lvl V = 0.85 * 0.9 = 0.765
It's a slight buff to production time, and both skills are more worthwhile for a dedicated industrialist.
|
|
CCP Greyscale
C C P C C P Alliance
2452
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 11:40:00 -
[200] - Quote
Hi everyone,
We're throwing around ideas for better bonuses for this skill that we can get implemented for the initial Crius release. How does say 2%/level install cost reduction feel? It ends up being most advantageous in major industry hubs or when using teams, but new players can still compete on price by building in less busy systems.
It is of course not as powerful as the current TQ version of this skill, but the whole point of this change is that it's currently *too* powerful, so we're deliberately trying to tone it down a bit. |
|
|
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus Aeterna Anima
287
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 11:47:00 -
[201] - Quote
Medalyn Isis wrote: It's a slight buff to production time, and both skills are more worthwhile for a dedicated industrialist.
That's the point though, isn't it? Not everyone who trained ME is a dedicated industrialist.
CCP Greyscale wrote:Hi everyone,
We're throwing around ideas for better bonuses for this skill that we can get implemented for the initial Crius release. How does say 2%/level install cost reduction feel? It ends up being most advantageous in major industry hubs or when using teams, but new players can still compete on price by building in less busy systems.
It is of course not as powerful as the current TQ version of this skill, but the whole point of this change is that it's currently *too* powerful, so we're deliberately trying to tone it down a bit.
Well, at least it seems you finally realized you have to operate on the same parameter, cost reduction, instead of changing it to time reduction.
10% installation cost reduction for a whooping 768k SP still seems kind of underwhelming, though. Why not make it 25%, 5% per level is rather standard for skills. |
Throwaway Sam Atild
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
12
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 11:51:00 -
[202] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Hi everyone,
We're throwing around ideas for better bonuses for this skill that we can get implemented for the initial Crius release. How does say 2%/level install cost reduction feel? It ends up being most advantageous in major industry hubs or when using teams, but new players can still compete on price by building in less busy systems.
It is of course not as powerful as the current TQ version of this skill, but the whole point of this change is that it's currently *too* powerful, so we're deliberately trying to tone it down a bit.
Tough to say without the numbers at my fingertips.
Am I close to right if I were to say:
1. The busiest hubs would see a 10-15% * price = install cost 2. Price is tied to market value and is very loosely comparable to 1.4x mat value 3. Salary for teams gets up to 10%
So a 10% reduction of the 10% increase in cost works out to ~ a 1% reduction in total cost?
Fix me if I'm wrong here. Seems very thin.
I'd say just remove the skill entirely from the game if you can't figure out what to do with it? Deciding how to repurpose the skill to appease the masses doesn't seem like a great way to go, even though you're taking tons of flak a the moment.
|
Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
44
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 11:53:00 -
[203] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Hi everyone,
We're throwing around ideas for better bonuses for this skill that we can get implemented for the initial Crius release. How does say 2%/level install cost reduction feel? It ends up being most advantageous in major industry hubs or when using teams, but new players can still compete on price by building in less busy systems.
It is of course not as powerful as the current TQ version of this skill, but the whole point of this change is that it's currently *too* powerful, so we're deliberately trying to tone it down a bit.
why don't you just drop the idea and consider your players that did not even ask for this teams mess,
I honestly prefer having a skill that reduces materials requirements over time production install cost reduction fee skill? you already waving an oops its expensive for everyone out there regardless how you work your magic and attempt to force this teams mess.
bad call greyscale.. bad call |
Celor Ma'fer
Jouhinen Inc
1
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 11:54:00 -
[204] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Hi everyone,
We're throwing around ideas for better bonuses for this skill that we can get implemented for the initial Crius release. How does say 2%/level install cost reduction feel? It ends up being most advantageous in major industry hubs or when using teams, but new players can still compete on price by building in less busy systems.
It is of course not as powerful as the current TQ version of this skill, but the whole point of this change is that it's currently *too* powerful, so we're deliberately trying to tone it down a bit.
I'd have to say that for the SP put into the skill I'd also say that 10% total bonus is too low. I know that the skills are different, but for the base Industry skill (1x) you get a 4% per level reduction and for the Advanced Industry (3x) you get a 2% reduction per level. Doesn't quite make sense. I would say it should be at least 4% per level. |
|
CCP Greyscale
C C P C C P Alliance
2452
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 11:57:00 -
[205] - Quote
Celor Ma'fer wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Hi everyone,
We're throwing around ideas for better bonuses for this skill that we can get implemented for the initial Crius release. How does say 2%/level install cost reduction feel? It ends up being most advantageous in major industry hubs or when using teams, but new players can still compete on price by building in less busy systems.
It is of course not as powerful as the current TQ version of this skill, but the whole point of this change is that it's currently *too* powerful, so we're deliberately trying to tone it down a bit. I'd have to say that for the SP put into the skill I'd also say that 10% total bonus is too low. I know that the skills are different, but for the base Industry skill (1x) you get a 4% per level reduction and for the Advanced Industry (3x) you get a 2% reduction per level. Doesn't quite make sense. I would say it should be at least 4% per level.
They're both affecting different things though - and the general pattern in EVE skills (that we are trying to adhere to more closely whenever we touch skill bonuses) is that more advanced skills take longer and give lower bonuses. That's why f.ex the advanced weapon skills only give 2%/level - quick to learn, slow to master. |
|
Trademaster Rob
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
9
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 12:02:00 -
[206] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Hi everyone,
We're throwing around ideas for better bonuses for this skill that we can get implemented for the initial Crius release. How does say 2%/level install cost reduction feel? It ends up being most advantageous in major industry hubs or when using teams, but new players can still compete on price by building in less busy systems.
It is of course not as powerful as the current TQ version of this skill, but the whole point of this change is that it's currently *too* powerful, so we're deliberately trying to tone it down a bit.
tbh this is a great response. If a skill was to powerful to begin with and it's somewhat tweaked with the new skill, that would be better then to replace it with something completely different. Also it being communicated is a big plus ;)
How this will pan out I don't know, but at least it's something to start with and only time will tell. |
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus Aeterna Anima
287
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 12:05:00 -
[207] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote: They're both affecting different things though - and the general pattern in EVE skills (that we are trying to adhere to more closely whenever we touch skill bonuses) is that more advanced skills take longer and give lower bonuses. That's why f.ex the advanced weapon skills only give 2%/level - quick to learn, slow to master.
Yet that's 10% on top of the TOTAL damage - and even then most players will not prioritize IV -> V over other things.
I'm not sure if you read my earlier post after my edit, but with your new skill at 10% we are - using you average from the dev blog of 2% - talking about a 0.2% reduction in total build cost for 768k SP invested, with the step from IV -> V being a 0.04% cost reduction.
You really think players would prioritize that skill? |
Trademaster Rob
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
9
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 12:06:00 -
[208] - Quote
Milla Goodpussy wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Hi everyone,
We're throwing around ideas for better bonuses for this skill that we can get implemented for the initial Crius release. How does say 2%/level install cost reduction feel? It ends up being most advantageous in major industry hubs or when using teams, but new players can still compete on price by building in less busy systems.
It is of course not as powerful as the current TQ version of this skill, but the whole point of this change is that it's currently *too* powerful, so we're deliberately trying to tone it down a bit. why don't you just drop the idea and consider your players that did not even ask for this teams mess, I honestly prefer having a skill that reduces materials requirements over time production install cost reduction fee skill? you already waving an oops its expensive for everyone out there regardless how you work your magic and attempt to force this teams mess. bad call greyscale.. bad call
Sorry but I don't agree. Games need to move forward be it good or bad they still need to move forward. They have an idea which is almost untested in practice. Let's first give it a try and keep CCP warm for future expansions. These changes are prob also with future in mind. But that's speculation ;) |
Claudius Dethahal
Viziam Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 12:22:00 -
[209] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Hi everyone,
We're throwing around ideas for better bonuses for this skill that we can get implemented for the initial Crius release. How does say 2%/level install cost reduction feel? It ends up being most advantageous in major industry hubs or when using teams, but new players can still compete on price by building in less busy systems.
It is of course not as powerful as the current TQ version of this skill, but the whole point of this change is that it's currently *too* powerful, so we're deliberately trying to tone it down a bit.
I'd personally like to see higher levels of the skill allow more change how the installation cost works. Something that allows capital limited producers to trade a lot of time for cost efficiency, high volume users could see a small effect on cost for scale, and there be a way to rush orders at a higher cost (something akin to paying overtime and wasting materials) for times when a major alliance changes doctrine and makes thousands of new hulls/buys out half of Jita.
That seems like it fits with the goals of the expansion and offers a rich array of choices to manufacturers to balance with the push pull mechanics. |
asteroidjas
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services The Possum Lodge
85
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 12:22:00 -
[210] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Hi everyone,
We're throwing around ideas for better bonuses for this skill that we can get implemented for the initial Crius release. How does say 2%/level install cost reduction feel? It ends up being most advantageous in major industry hubs or when using teams, but new players can still compete on price by building in less busy systems.
It is of course not as powerful as the current TQ version of this skill, but the whole point of this change is that it's currently *too* powerful, so we're deliberately trying to tone it down a bit. This is better, but it still needs to be something WORTH the train from 4-5. Others have shown you the math, look hard at it and think "is that something most current industrialists would choose to train from 4 to 5?)
CCP Greyscale wrote:
They're both affecting different things though - and the general pattern in EVE skills (that we are trying to adhere to more closely whenever we touch skill bonuses) is that more advanced skills take longer and give lower bonuses. That's why f.ex the advanced weapon skills only give 2%/level - quick to learn, slow to master.
But the 2% from AWU is 2% extra...not 2% of 10% of something else. You try to use logic, but then don't look at the facts of it. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 .. 17 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |