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Cyno Saraki
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.07.10 21:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
Manufacturing: baseCost x numberOfRuns Research: Sum for each level[ baseCost x 0.02 x researchMultiplierForLevel (see table below) ] Copying: baseCost x 0.02 x runsPerCopy x numberOfRuns Invention + Reverse Engineering: baseCost x 0.02
Research Multipliers Level Multiplier 1 1 2 29 / 21.0 3 23 / 7.0 4 39 / 5.0 5 278 / 15.0 6 928 / 21.0 7 2200 / 21.0 8 5251 / 21.0 9 4163 / 7.0 10 29660 / 21.0
That's all fine & dandy except for the ME 10 researching. 28.24 * base cost. OMG...
Yes it will be multiplied by the system activity but
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Cyno Saraki
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.07.10 22:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
so at a 5% global system, ME 10 costs 28.24 * base cost * .25 = 7.06 * base cost of the product...
Now apply that magic math to ship building, esp BS & caps. |
NotTheSmartestCookie
New Order Logistics CODE.
30
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Posted - 2014.07.10 22:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
Space-poor scrubs gonna scrub |
Josclyn Verreuil
Justified Chaos
12
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Posted - 2014.07.10 23:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
Cyno Saraki wrote:so at a 5% global system, ME 10 costs 28.24 * base cost * .25 = 7.06 * base cost of the product...
Now apply that magic math to ship building, esp BS & caps.
So you'll have to make a value judgment as to whether it's worth researching to "perfect." Note that due to the way the scaling ME will work, going from 9-10 is the smallest jump across the spectrum.
More choices are good in games, I don't see what's wrong here. |
Evil Brock Nelson
47
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Posted - 2014.07.11 01:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
We all knew about the cost increase, guess somebody didn't read the dev blog covering this few months ago... |
Kukihara Akachi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
15
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Posted - 2014.07.11 06:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
Josclyn Verreuil wrote:due to the way the scaling ME will work, going from 9-10 is the smallest jump across the spectrum. Actually, 9-10 is not the smallest jump across the spectrum. In some cases it's the biggest jump across the spectrum. See https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4786741#post4786741
Josclyn Verreuil wrote:More choices are good in games, I don't see what's wrong here. Given how botched-up the capital bpo changes are, I can easily see what's wrong with the suggested ME/PE changes. |
Trin Javidan
Caymen Labs
30
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Posted - 2014.07.12 12:00:00 -
[7] - Quote
How does this turn out in ISk numbers wise? |
Josclyn Verreuil
Justified Chaos
13
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Posted - 2014.07.12 13:37:00 -
[8] - Quote
Kukihara Akachi wrote:Josclyn Verreuil wrote:due to the way the scaling ME will work, going from 9-10 is the smallest jump across the spectrum. Actually, 9-10 is not the smallest jump across the spectrum. In some cases it's the biggest jump across the spectrum. See https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4786741#post4786741Josclyn Verreuil wrote:More choices are good in games, I don't see what's wrong here. Given how botched-up the capital bpo changes are, I can easily see what's wrong with the suggested ME/PE changes.
Try doing 2 runs.
The only reason that happens is because it's rounding off to the nearest component. Crius is applying the ME across a batch now instead of just per run, so upping the runs is a knob you can turn to achieve better results. Notably this is true not just on capital prints, but noticable in t2 production as well. Anywhere the granularity of component cost is an issue and you're rounding unfavorably.
Again, more knobs the better. It lets people like me out-earn people like you ;) |
Chuk Ormand
El Diablo De Verde Mech Alliance
7
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Posted - 2014.07.14 14:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
I currently have a small POS with 3 research labs in a 0.4 system. If the new research costs are indeed expensive it might be worth keeping my labs online after Crius. Fuel costs are only 100 mil isk per month. My 2 main characters keep all the slots busy 24/7. I'm currently training all 4 alts for research and invention to assist with my tech 2 construction. I'm looking forward to Crius and have taken the attitude to make things work regardless. It's just another EVE challenge which I will embrace.
Does anyone know how the slots in a mobile lab might be changed?? Will the slots stay the same or can 1 lab be used to run all ME jobs (10 jobs my current skills allow)?? I haven't read any concrete answers yet. Time will tell...............................-chuk |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
1395
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Posted - 2014.07.14 15:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
No more manufacturing/research slots. At all. Anywhere. It's been said again and again and again, there definitely have been multiple concrete statements. |
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Josclyn Verreuil
Justified Chaos
17
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Posted - 2014.07.14 15:57:00 -
[11] - Quote
Elena Thiesant wrote:No more manufacturing/research slots. At all. Anywhere. It's been said again and again and again, there definitely have been multiple concrete statements.
What she said here is completely correct.
To follow up on that though, working out of a POS *will* still require job costs in line with everywhere else, come Crius. You get a few notable benefits though:
-Huge production time bonus. Invention itself will take half the time that it will in station. ME, PE, and copying all have significant boosts as well, along with manufacturing.
-Slight ME bonus on all manufacturing
-10% less job cost than anyone in an NPC station will have
-Ability to research/produce in systems in which you otherwise could not. Smart use of this can help keep your job costs low. |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
139
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Posted - 2014.07.14 16:14:00 -
[12] - Quote
Josclyn Verreuil wrote:-Ability to research/produce in systems in which you otherwise could not. Smart use of this can help keep your job costs low.
Finding a good system with a low number of moons and no NPC stations with corresponding services will all but guarantee that your install costs remain very low. Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I want to create content, not become content. |
Hakan MacTrew
MUTED VOID Sick N' Twisted
838
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Posted - 2014.07.14 21:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
Chuk Ormand wrote:I currently have a small POS with 3 research labs in a 0.4 system. If the new research costs are indeed expensive it might be worth keeping my labs online after Crius. Fuel costs are only 100 mil isk per month. My 2 main characters keep all the slots busy 24/7. I'm currently training all 4 alts for research and invention to assist with my tech 2 construction. I'm looking forward to Crius and have taken the attitude to make things work regardless. It's just another EVE challenge which I will embrace.
Does anyone know how the slots in a mobile lab might be changed?? Will the slots stay the same or can 1 lab be used to run all ME jobs (10 jobs my current skills allow)?? I haven't read any concrete answers yet. Time will tell...............................-chuk Don't forget that you will need to put the BPO's in the actual POS to work on them after the patch. You won't be able to leave them in a station anymore. http://meme-generator.me/media/created/d3r3t8.jpg |
Hakan MacTrew
MUTED VOID Sick N' Twisted
838
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Posted - 2014.07.14 21:39:00 -
[14] - Quote
Cyno Saraki wrote:so at a 5% global system, ME 10 costs 28.24 * base cost * .25 = 7.06 * base cost of the product...
Now apply that magic math to ship building, esp BS & caps.
Let me get this straight... Getting a Charon BPO from ME 0 to ME 10 will cost 14.12 Billion isk? http://meme-generator.me/media/created/d3r3t8.jpg |
Josclyn Verreuil
Justified Chaos
19
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Posted - 2014.07.14 22:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
Hakan MacTrew wrote:Cyno Saraki wrote:so at a 5% global system, ME 10 costs 28.24 * base cost * .25 = 7.06 * base cost of the product...
Now apply that magic math to ship building, esp BS & caps. Let me get this straight... Getting a Charon BPO from ME 0 to ME 10 will cost 14.12 Billion isk?
Sounds possible, though I haven't run the numbers.
Try again for ME 9 though, you can get very close to perfect for significantly cheaper. This moves research closer in line with things like skills, where you can get very good at something (lvl 4) relatively quickly, but perfect (lvl 5) takes a huge increase in investment. |
Cyno Saraki
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2014.07.15 05:39:00 -
[16] - Quote
Hakan MacTrew wrote:Cyno Saraki wrote:so at a 5% global system, ME 10 costs 28.24 * base cost * .25 = 7.06 * base cost of the product...
Now apply that magic math to ship building, esp BS & caps. Let me get this straight... Getting a Charon BPO from ME 0 to ME 10 will cost 14.12 Billion isk?
I should have clarified. 7.06 * base cost * system modifier. So lets say the system has like 5% of global production. I believe the install cost would be 7.06 * base cost * square root of .05. So about 3.5b. |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
666
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Posted - 2014.07.15 06:09:00 -
[17] - Quote
Cyno Saraki wrote:Hakan MacTrew wrote:Cyno Saraki wrote:so at a 5% global system, ME 10 costs 28.24 * base cost * .25 = 7.06 * base cost of the product...
Now apply that magic math to ship building, esp BS & caps. Let me get this straight... Getting a Charon BPO from ME 0 to ME 10 will cost 14.12 Billion isk? I should have clarified. 7.06 * base cost * system modifier. So lets say the system has like 5% of global production. I believe the install cost would be 7.06 * base cost * square root of .05. So about 3.5b.
Will a system have 5% of global production? That sounds like a very large number indeed. Isn't it more likely to be something like 0.5 or 0.05% of global production? |
Cyno Saraki
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2014.07.15 06:16:00 -
[18] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote: Will a system have 5% of global production? That sounds like a very large number indeed. Isn't it more likely to be something like 0.5 or 0.05% of global production?
From dev blog
On that note, let's look at some examples.
Manufacturing: The largest run price we generated from the snapshot we took was 15% of build cost in Saisio. 10th place is Juunigaishi at 8%, while 50th is Kakakela at 5%. Jita is in 106th place, at 4%. The highest lowsec system is redacted at 53rd and 5%, and the highest nullsec system is redacted at 147th place and 4%.
Copying: Max is 14% in Vuorrassi, 10th is 9%, 50th is 6%, and we drop below 5% at 95th.
TE: The same numbers are 13% in Nomaa, 9%, 6%, 90th.
ME: 10% in Abudban, 7%, 5%, 79th.
Invention: 12% in Nomaa, 9%, 7%, 119th.
Reverse Engineering: 35% in Droselory, 17%, 6%, and there are sufficiently few systems doing reverse engineering when the snapshot was taken that the bottom one is still above 5% of output value. |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
666
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Posted - 2014.07.15 10:19:00 -
[19] - Quote
Sure now, but when people start spreading out and more industry is done in null I expect those hot-spots will disappear, especially given the costs. I think 1% will be quite high for any given system. It's still a massive whack of ISK to shell out so I expect prices to go up quite a lot. |
Andrew Indy
Four Pillar Production Headshot Gaming
92
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Posted - 2014.07.16 08:21:00 -
[20] - Quote
Cap BPOs will be crazy expensive to do anything with.
Too bad my Archon will only hit 9ME just after the patch. |
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Hakan MacTrew
MUTED VOID Takahashi Alliance
840
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Posted - 2014.07.16 12:03:00 -
[21] - Quote
And so, the race will begin to find systems below 1%...
Also, given that copying will take almost the same time as building the finished product, does that mean that the process of building supers will take a considerably longer period of time, or am I totally off track? http://meme-generator.me/media/created/d3r3t8.jpg |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3879
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Posted - 2014.07.17 01:26:00 -
[22] - Quote
Hakan MacTrew wrote:Let me get this straight... Getting a Charon BPO from ME 0 to ME 10 will cost 14.12 Billion isk? Good thing I have 4 of them. Just tossed them in for PL 3 too. |
Hakan MacTrew
MUTED VOID Takahashi Alliance
840
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Posted - 2014.07.17 01:50:00 -
[23] - Quote
This may be of use:
Quote:Price of output is based on the system used for calculating values in killmails, which is also used to manage bounty and Factional Warfare (FW) kill payouts. We're very aware of the risk of price manipulation, but we're pretty confident this system is robust in this regard. The one deviation we're making is that, just for the purposes of pricing jobs, blueprints are assumed to be worth 2% of the value of whatever they build, so research jobs don't end up being outrageously expensive.
https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/the-price-of-change/
So, a Charon is currently worth about 1.3b isk, so the BPO will have a 'base value' of 26m.
So, assuming a MASSIVE 10% global modiier, you would be looking at 18.4m isk to get it from ME 0 to ME 10
I think that is much easier to swallow.
DRAMA AVERTED http://meme-generator.me/media/created/d3r3t8.jpg |
Bayonnefrog
Hedion University Amarr Empire
33
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Posted - 2014.07.17 14:35:00 -
[24] - Quote
NotTheSmartestCookie wrote:Space-poor scrubs gonna scrub
lolz, post of the week! |
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