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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Seven Koskanaiken
DIVINE CHA0S The Bastion
1327
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Posted - 2014.07.12 12:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
http://themittani.com/content/traffic-control-newbie-zone-0
Not even a troll, honest. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
23129
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Posted - 2014.07.12 12:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
404 griefs the internet. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Nalelmir Ahashion
Omegon 42nd Core
473
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Posted - 2014.07.12 12:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
broken link. elaborate scam to gain page views? "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch |
Dave Stark
6539
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Posted - 2014.07.12 12:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
hopefully working link. |
Aineko Macx
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
298
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Posted - 2014.07.12 12:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:broken link. elaborate scam to gain page views? No worries, that page is Ad-Block'ed and No-Script'ed anyway. iveeCore - PHP library for calculations of industrial activities |
Dave Stark
6539
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Posted - 2014.07.12 12:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
also, nowhere in that article does the mittani say that griefing drives away new players.
the only remotely relevant or related quote is this:
Quote:Except that hisec corporations are skittish about letting 'new players' join because of hisec awoxing: griefers such as my own space-tribe joining a corporation and then murderzoning the membership through a loophole in Concord enforcement - you can join a corp and attack anyone in your own corporation, even in hisec. Here's another sacred cow to slaughter: hisec awoxing is absolutely stupid from a business and retention perspective as it disincentivizes players from reaching out to genuine confused newbies.
this doesn't even remotely translate to the title of this thread, it just illustrates that nobody wants to do what we should be doing to help new players because it's not worth the risk. which is just ******* dumb because we should all love newbies unconditionally because there's not a sensible person here who would disagree with that. |
Remiel Pollard
The Vigilance Institute
3870
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Posted - 2014.07.12 12:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:Mittani: Greifers drive away new players
This is not what the article says. Read it again. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita.
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Arkady Romanov
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
286
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Posted - 2014.07.12 12:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
Dave stop taking the bait. The guy is in Bastion, who's SRP comes from Mittens proverbial teat.
Plus, the title is about "greifers" not "griefers." |
stoicfaux
5108
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Posted - 2014.07.12 12:45:00 -
[9] - Quote
Grrr goons-want-more-WoW-in-EVE...
Wait, what?
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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Dave Stark
6539
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Posted - 2014.07.12 12:50:00 -
[10] - Quote
Arkady Romanov wrote:Dave (edit: and Remedial) stop taking the bait. The guy is in Bastion, who's SRP comes from Mittens proverbial teat.
Plus, the title is about "greifers" not "griefers."
to be fair though, the way awoxing works in high sec is hilariously terrible specially when you consider anyone repping the awoxer inherits no suspect or criminal flags.
i've seen 3 day old gnosis pilots take out vindicators because even with a vindicator's dps you're just not going to break a gnosis being repped by 3 augorors and you're not going to suicide gank an augoror worth at most 40m with a 1bn+ isk battleship.
doesn't matter what you think of tmc, the mittani, goons, or terrible thread titles - the article has some good points. |
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Prt Scr
569th Freelancers
44
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Posted - 2014.07.12 12:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
Hell must have frozen over, I find my-self in agreement with a goon...and not just any goon , but the arch goon. I will pinch myself to see if I am dreaming and check if my meds. have been spiked. |
Zimmy Zeta
Lisa Needs Braces.
42368
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Posted - 2014.07.12 13:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
Prt Scr wrote:Hell must have frozen over, I find my-self in agreement with a goon...and not just any goon , but the arch goon. I will pinch myself to see if I am dreaming and check if my meds. have been spiked.
Same here. But the big one is right- there are a whole bunch of game mechanics in EVE that are counter-intuitive for newbies and appear more like exploits or loopholes than actual game concepts. And any game mechanic that disincentivizes players from actually playing the game (that is: socializing and pvp) is bad and should be removed. I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.
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Dave Stark
6542
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Posted - 2014.07.12 13:36:00 -
[13] - Quote
Zimmy Zeta wrote:Prt Scr wrote:Hell must have frozen over, I find my-self in agreement with a goon...and not just any goon , but the arch goon. I will pinch myself to see if I am dreaming and check if my meds. have been spiked. Same here. But the big one is right- there are a whole bunch of game mechanics in EVE that are counter-intuitive for newbies and appear more like exploits or loopholes than actual game concepts. And any game mechanic that disincentivizes players from actually playing the game (that is: socializing and pvp) is bad and should be removed.
the problem is, things like awoxing is playing the game for some people. |
Ursula Thrace
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
239
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Posted - 2014.07.12 13:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
i think he makes some valid points. i'm not stoked about his idea of creating a jovian newbie area, but i think he's on the right track. i remember my first few weeks in eve (three tries before i started a subscription) and how utterly lost i felt.
i've always thought the new player experience could use some serious attention. for whatever reason, ccp has decided to put almost all of it's efforts into retaining experienced players. although important, it doesn't do much for expanding the player base. eve online original intro
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stoicfaux
5109
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Posted - 2014.07.12 13:43:00 -
[15] - Quote
So... who's going to make the F&I posts for the recommendations mentioned in the article?
Because I, for one, would like to see how CCP responds when all of the goons +1 an F&I suggestion.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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HighSec Content Creator
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2014.07.12 13:51:00 -
[16] - Quote
F U Mittens, Y U no like me?
Me want easykills for autism special. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
2051
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Posted - 2014.07.12 13:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
Somehow the title of this thread seems very wrong.
Maybe my logic is off, but I clearly understood Mittens article as:
The NPE drives away new players (to match the title slightly), or the NPE does almost nothing to retain new players. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
. -á<- Argue this, not this ->-á( -í-¦ -£-û -í-¦) |
Anna Karhunen
Inoue INEXP
370
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Posted - 2014.07.12 13:56:00 -
[18] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:So... who's going to make the F&I posts for the recommendations mentioned in the article? Because I, for one, would like to see how CCP responds when all of the goons +1 an F&I suggestion. And not just goons. As my old maths teacher used to say: "Statistics are like bikinis: It's what they don't show that's interesting". -CCP Aporia |
Arkady Romanov
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
286
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Posted - 2014.07.12 13:58:00 -
[19] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:So... who's going to make the F&I posts for the recommendations mentioned in the article? Because I, for one, would like to see how CCP responds when all of the goons +1 an F&I suggestion.
Absolutely nothing. Same as almost everything that goes through F&I. |
Haedonism Bot
Revolutionary Front
1356
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Posted - 2014.07.12 13:59:00 -
[20] - Quote
I could get down with the Mittani's idea except for one thing.
In a world where highsec was a transitional zone between a safe tutorial zone and an eventual career in lawless space, nerfing highsec safaris would be a reasonable proposition. However, that's not the world we live in.
In the current EVE Online universe, highsec is the permanent home of a majority of the player base. Highsec isk rewards are as high or higher than in other zones of space, and highsec aggression (including AWOXing) are a needed balancing factor. If anything, highsec aggression needs to be buffed.
I can see the merits of a single newbie area for trial accounts. The time that you can spend there would have to be short, and activities and rewards severely limited. The primary weakness of the NPE is that it fails to introduce newbies to player-generated content, which of course is the greatest attraction of this game. By having the newbies all gathered together in a separate zone, it would facilitate incorporating fleet activities into the NPE. CCP approved FCs could organize fleets for mining, exploration, and PvP. Participating in a fleet could even be a final aspect of each of the career-path tutorials. www.everevolutionaryfront.blogspot.com
Psychotic Monk for CSM9 |
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Dave Stark
6547
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Posted - 2014.07.12 14:06:00 -
[21] - Quote
I don't think that it's the responsibility of the tutorial to introduce players to player-generated content. I also don't think that the NPE should be another name for the tutorial.
I think, that while the tutorial is part of the NPE, the NPE shouldn't start and end with the tutorial. Fencing the new players off and feeding them tutorial missioins is fine provided that once those tutorial missions are done we don't say "well that's the NPE, now **** off".
the tutorial should just show people how to do ~things~ in eve, and once they're able to move about in space, and know how to fit modules to a ship, and how to open various menus etc... then we can start worrying about a new player experience. really the NPE should be the bit after the tutorial |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
6196
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Posted - 2014.07.12 15:04:00 -
[22] - Quote
Why would you want to play with people you dont know or dont like? "Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
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Dally Lama
Republic University Minmatar Republic
55
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Posted - 2014.07.12 15:05:00 -
[23] - Quote
Funny how many of you regulars on here have always called other posters risk-averse poons when they mention how AWOXing is absurd and dumb. I've seen how many threads on it where all the usual forum bros come in with their sly comments and tear the OP apart for thinkink AWOXing in high-sec is legal CONCORD evasion. Mittens mentions it and now watch as you sheep start actually considering the logic. New Fitting Window | Distances above 10km | Maximums for buy orders |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
6196
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Posted - 2014.07.12 15:07:00 -
[24] - Quote
Dally Lama wrote:Funny how many of you regulars on here have always called other posters risk-averse poons when they mention how AWOXing is absurd and dumb. I've seen how many threads on it where all the usual forum bros come in with their sly comments and tear the OP apart for thinkink AWOXing in high-sec is legal CONCORD evasion. Mittens mentions it and now watch as you sheep start actually considering the logic.
Funny how you only seem to exist to criticise others "Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
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Dave Stark
6547
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Posted - 2014.07.12 15:08:00 -
[25] - Quote
Dally Lama wrote:Funny how many of you regulars on here have always called other posters risk-averse poons when they mention how AWOXing is absurd and dumb. I've seen how many threads on it where all the usual forum bros come in with their sly comments and tear the OP apart for thinkink AWOXing in high-sec is legal CONCORD evasion. Mittens mentions it and now watch as you sheep start actually considering the logic.
just because we know something is absurd and such, doesn't mean we're not going to abuse it like a choir boy at mass. |
Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
2528
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Posted - 2014.07.12 15:24:00 -
[26] - Quote
Feyd's take on NPE seems particularly relevant here.. .. when everything else is gone .. |
Marsha Mallow
1282
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Posted - 2014.07.12 15:35:00 -
[27] - Quote
The NPE is horrible - as are the tutorials - and highsec is a hellhole. But we leave the majority of the playerbase trapped there because it's considered a 'starter area'. Is it really any surprise so many end up as highsec mission or mining grinding zombies who are often only liberated by chance? Solo PVE is one of the worst activities in EvE, but that's all new players are trained to do. We actively discourage co-operative play by telling them not to trust anybody, and that the game is full of scary monsters who will eat them if they step out of their comfort zone. There's an overemphasis early on about the importance of acquiring ISK and skills, as if you have to grind first to have any fun. As Dave said, the tutorials need to teach core mechanics and useful skills - but would it kill to inject a bit of immersive gameplay, as opposed to 'no ISK, no fun'? It's a stupid message to send as it implies you can buy your way to a better game. Some of Ali's suggestions here looked interesting, although teaching people by frustrating them seems counterintuitive.
Considering rookie systems are supposed to be protected from griefing anyway, ringfencing them doesn't seem like a bad idea. The only criticism I might make is it sounds like instancing, which undermines the selling point of being on a single sharded server, although it's largely irrelevant on your first day. I'm not sure how much impact it will have if new players continue to exit the starter area overwhelmed and clueless, then sit in highsec 'safely' grinding up their raven. An alternative might be to start everyone on Sisi in newbie areas so they can access free mods, maybe play about with some allocatable SP before they start training, try some FFA combat or group PVE, or jump straight out of highsec and have a look around.
There needs to be some way to phase people into the wider universe and demonstrate there are options beyond highsec that you don't need to wait until you have 100m sp to access. We also need to get people into group play a lot faster - even artificial fleets in the starter areas would be better than nothing. I really think breaking the monotony of solo play should be at the heart of improving the NPE rather than mechanics changes that promote an artificial sense of safety. Shouldn't another point be to show people that risk is fun (and rewarding)?
There's also a real problem in terms of vets being able to help new players effectively. We don't all have time to start rookie friendly corps, or sign upto the ISD programme. I see people giving (sometimes horrendous) advice to noobs in help channels, or arguing in front of them over semantics. Example: in rookie help the other night someone asked whether negative sec would result in faction police killing them. One vet (on a starter alt) replied yes, then gave some sec status restriction numbers, whilst another argued that you can evade faction police provided you don't sit on gate etc. Both were correct (sort of), although I think they misunderstood the question, and the discussion just confused the person who asked.
The article makes so many obvious points that most players would agree with, it's hard to believe CCP have only just realised how bad being a rookie is as an experience. The proposed solutions look reasonable, but they look like superficial fixes that don't address the whole. TO THE RIPARDMOBILE! |
MailDeadDrop
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
359
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Posted - 2014.07.12 15:36:00 -
[28] - Quote
Arkady Romanov wrote:stoicfaux wrote:So... who's going to make the F&I posts for the recommendations mentioned in the article? Because I, for one, would like to see how CCP responds when all of the goons +1 an F&I suggestion. Absolutely nothing. Same as almost everything that goes through F&I. There's a reason why "Features & Ideas" is also known as "The Place Where Good (& Bad) Ideas Go To Die".
MDD |
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse Somethin Awfull Forums
507
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Posted - 2014.07.12 15:39:00 -
[29] - Quote
Saying what has been said a thousand times on GD but some how because it's Mittani.com it has weight?
I don't know if I would be impressed that CCP took note or if they ignored it. R.I.P. Vile Rat |
Hell Freeze
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
313
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Posted - 2014.07.12 15:40:00 -
[30] - Quote
Prt Scr wrote:Hell must have frozen over, I find my-self in agreement with a goon...and not just any goon , but the arch goon. I will pinch myself to see if I am dreaming and check if my meds. have been spiked. ^ This ^
Overhauling the NPE makes perfect sense from a business standpoint.
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