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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Chewytowel Haklar
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
48
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 21:21:00 -
[511] - Quote
The game is pretty boring, and in my opinion that is what drives away new players. PvP can be thrilling, but trying to fight a maxed out character, or someone in a t2 when I am in a t1, or just trying to enjoy multiple aspects of the game and yet having to train to enjoy just one aspect while it takes weeks. I mean all that crap is what is annoying about EVE.
I've been here for 2 months. I've mined, joined a few corporations, did the faction warfare thing, actually got a couple solo kills, participated in a little here and there. Frankly I don't see the appeal. Even the Dev's admit this game is boring, and yet it maintains an appeal to people. But hey that's okay, because you know what I don't like CSI, NCIS, or other shows like that - hell, i'd never even watch dance with the stars if you paid me - but people like that kind of entertainment. Perhaps for me this is just the wrong show for me.
I would argue though that the dev's definitely haven't created enough tools to make the sandbox as versatile as it could be. Right now a lot of the game still feels very much themepark as much as others might hate to admit it. You can't really have a full blown sandbox game though anyway, it's literally impossible as a dev always has to set rules that need to be followed when using their software. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
12402
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 22:04:00 -
[512] - Quote
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:The game is pretty boring, and in my opinion that is what drives away new players. PvP can be thrilling, but trying to fight a maxed out character, or someone in a t2 when I am in a t1, or just trying to enjoy multiple aspects of the game and yet having to train to enjoy just one aspect while it takes weeks. I mean all that crap is what is annoying about EVE.
I've been here for 2 months. I've mined, joined a few corporations, did the faction warfare thing, actually got a couple solo kills, participated in a little here and there. Frankly I don't see the appeal. Even the Dev's admit this game is boring, and yet it maintains an appeal to people. But hey that's okay, because you know what I don't like CSI, NCIS, or other shows like that - hell, i'd never even watch dance with the stars if you paid me - but people like that kind of entertainment. Perhaps for me this is just the wrong show for me.
I would argue though that the dev's definitely haven't created enough tools to make the sandbox as versatile as it could be. Right now a lot of the game still feels very much themepark as much as others might hate to admit it. You can't really have a full blown sandbox game though anyway, it's literally impossible as a dev always has to set rules that need to be followed when using their software.
The problem is that people come from other games that hold their hands. They simply have no idea what to do when the enter EVE as we have no endgame here. They are not used to long term goals or making their own content and they effectivly make themselves bored. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Puppy Eating
University of Caille Gallente Federation
9
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Posted - 2014.07.18 22:40:00 -
[513] - Quote
To me there are two types of game.
Character progression PvE and Player skill based PvP.
EVE is a game where Character skills/equipment/numbers matters more than player skill, so PvP in it is terrible; except for the large groups of old accounts, who fear/hate changes to 'their' game.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
2959
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 22:51:00 -
[514] - Quote
Puppy Eating wrote:To me there are two types of game.
Character progression PvE and Player skill based PvP.
EVE is a game where Character skills/equipment/numbers matters more than player skill, so PvP in it is terrible; except for the large groups of old accounts, who fear/hate changes to 'their' game.
Bull**** "Confirming EVE is hot, batshit crazy, and puts out." -Omar Alharazaad "CAKE CANNOT HOLD UP TO BEING A CHARACTER DAMNIT." --áUnsuccessful At Everything |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
12403
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 22:51:00 -
[515] - Quote
Puppy Eating wrote:To me there are two types of game.
Character progression PvE and Player skill based PvP.
EVE is a game where Character skills/equipment/numbers matters more than player skill, so PvP in it is terrible; except for the large groups of old accounts, who fear/hate changes to 'their' game.
Stuff a new player in a 100 million skillpoint clone and have it fly a multiple billion isk pvp ship with all the best mods and he will die every time. Player skill always beats SP and fat wallets. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Gallowmere Rorschach
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
468
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 22:53:00 -
[516] - Quote
Puppy Eating wrote:To me there are two types of game.
Character progression PvE and Player skill based PvP.
EVE is a game where Character skills/equipment/numbers matters more than player skill, so PvP in it is terrible; except for the large groups of old accounts, who fear/hate changes to 'their' game.
Eve has ALOD after ALOD that tells a different story. You should read them sometime. |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1904
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 23:08:00 -
[517] - Quote
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay. Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!
The Rules: 4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.
26. Off-topic posting is prohibited.
Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued.
ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
2180
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 23:11:00 -
[518] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Puppy Eating wrote:To me there are two types of game.
Character progression PvE and Player skill based PvP.
EVE is a game where Character skills/equipment/numbers matters more than player skill, so PvP in it is terrible; except for the large groups of old accounts, who fear/hate changes to 'their' game.
Bull****
What Ralph wrote.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
. -á<- Argue this, not this ->-á( -í-¦ -£-û -í-¦) |
Brainless Bimbo
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
80
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 23:30:00 -
[519] - Quote
Hey goonies, rookie experience is at the moment dependent on the community, everything is there for them to progress IF they look for it....
That-¦s why i got into eve, no hand holding, explore everything, read every info sheet, not being treated like a moron.
Now OK i-¦m not a young American (probably older than your dad) and i liked the complexity and exercising critical thought and generally using the grey matter to survive and progress, but having a gated community for rookies would be pointless and counter to eve (and probably the goon playing ethic which in your early days i admired). The only thing that would be different is no interaction with ppl over 30 days old and concentrate rookies in a ghetto, the chat they currently would be exactly the same, they would never see a decent ship to go "want that, how do i get it" and the shock of eve would be far greater no matter what the rookie experience was like.
Within corp griefing maybe an issue due to social misfits or psychotics at present and could be done away with so only the duel mechanic could be used so that is an easy fix with the current set of mechanics.
The Meta game in eve could be considered out of control, but that-¦s an attraction as much as a turn off, as could multiple accounts reducing interaction, but that-¦s a symptom of the lack of trust/paranoia or one man run industrial corps with 30 members paid for purely by plex.
The danger element is better than boredom, learning through screw up is an excellent way to learn, but whats at the heart of every thing mittens is saying is eve players can be douches because they have the freedom to be and that are as they have no self control or awareness that the interactions they have influence whether someone will stay or go and they don-¦t care as the cannot see the big picture. Being selfish doesn-¦t produce a stable or growing community it just makes masters and slaves and lots of pissed on people who will just say sod this i-¦m off the where people are more civil as they don-¦t have to grin and bear it like real life. already dead, just haven-¦t fallen over yet.... |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
8020
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 23:48:00 -
[520] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Puppy Eating wrote:To me there are two types of game.
Character progression PvE and Player skill based PvP.
EVE is a game where Character skills/equipment/numbers matters more than player skill, so PvP in it is terrible; except for the large groups of old accounts, who fear/hate changes to 'their' game.
Bull****
While I agree 100% with Ralph, I cannot help but wonder what word he used.
Because bullshit is totally an ok word. So it must have been some other four letter word.
Bull ****? Bull ****? Bull ****? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
2966
|
Posted - 2014.07.19 00:08:00 -
[521] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Puppy Eating wrote:To me there are two types of game.
Character progression PvE and Player skill based PvP.
EVE is a game where Character skills/equipment/numbers matters more than player skill, so PvP in it is terrible; except for the large groups of old accounts, who fear/hate changes to 'their' game.
Bull**** While I agree 100% with Ralph, I cannot help but wonder what word he used. Because bullshit is totally an ok word. So it must have been some other four letter word. Bull ****? Bull ****? Bull ****? Bull ****, obviously. "Confirming EVE is hot, batshit crazy, and puts out." -Omar Alharazaad "CAKE CANNOT HOLD UP TO BEING A CHARACTER DAMNIT." --áUnsuccessful At Everything |
RAIN Arthie
The Ascended Fleet Intrepid Crossing
317
|
Posted - 2014.07.19 10:06:00 -
[522] - Quote
Read most of the article. Must say despite my distain for Goons Mittins is right. I can only shrug my shoulders though, we have all tried to get the game on the right path. CCp is like our US government, too dumb to figure it out and too rich to care. |
Coffee Rocks
Thrall Nation Brave Collective
183
|
Posted - 2014.07.19 10:32:00 -
[523] - Quote
Came here expecting to find the usual suspects telling the Mittani his article was worded incorrectly, everything is fine, or to HTFU.
Was not disappointed.
Wow. http://www.thecoffeerocks.com Twitter: @thecoffeerocks |-áSteam: CoffeeRocks-á https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=327221 |
Gallowmere Rorschach
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
469
|
Posted - 2014.07.19 11:05:00 -
[524] - Quote
RAIN Arthie wrote:Read most of the article. Must say despite my distain for Goons Mittins is right. I can only shrug my shoulders though, we have all tried to get the game on the right path. CCp is like our US government, too dumb to figure it out and too rich to care. Also, much like the US government, they have a population of players trying to pull them in 40 different directions. That never helps with sound decision making. |
RAIN Arthie
The Ascended Fleet Intrepid Crossing
318
|
Posted - 2014.07.19 11:47:00 -
[525] - Quote
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:RAIN Arthie wrote:Read most of the article. Must say despite my distain for Goons Mittins is right. I can only shrug my shoulders though, we have all tried to get the game on the right path. CCp is like our US government, too dumb to figure it out and too rich to care. Also, much like the US government, they have a population of players trying to pull them in 40 different directions. That never helps with sound decision making.
And even further like the US government thay lack sound decision making maturity. |
Dave Stark
6649
|
Posted - 2014.07.19 11:59:00 -
[526] - Quote
TIL, hilmar is actually obama. |
Arec Bardwin
1465
|
Posted - 2014.07.19 12:28:00 -
[527] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Amusingly, Griffin is Greif in german, Greifer is someone that tames Griffins? I don't know, hangover ramblings obviously
|
Chinwe Rhei
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
100
|
Posted - 2014.07.19 13:12:00 -
[528] - Quote
I'm sorry to say but the last people CCP should be asking about the newbie experience are the goons.
The whole reason the NPE is so goddamn awful is because CCP has been getting advice about how to attract and keep newbies from old-player heavy and block dominated CSMs for years The CSM's ideea of a newbie experience is the goonswarm experience: getting recruited out of game, podding yourself to get to null, having isk and free ships sent your way and then being assigned a role as a cog in their machine. Which is why a bunch of t1 frigates and cruisers were given "fleet roles" that are completely useless and foreign to the average new player to the game.
That has nothing to do with what the tutorials and the newbie experience should be about, which is letting the new player experience the game, and letting him figure out what he wants to do, and encourage him to team up with other players like him and try and make it by themselves, in industry or combat or whatever it is they enjoy.
The reason newbies don't stick around is because no matter how much they are told the contrary, they see that they're too late to the party, every time they want to start their own corps they get stomped on by 8 year old players and told by "helpful" help channel residents that they should just stay in the NPC corps forever or accept being a peon in someone else's army. They see that "the EvE dream" - starting your very own corp with your friends and making a section of space your own - is a lie. It's something other people got to do when the game was still fun.
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
2969
|
Posted - 2014.07.19 13:20:00 -
[529] - Quote
Arec Bardwin wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Amusingly, Griffin is Greif in german, Greifer is someone that tames Griffins? I don't know, hangover ramblings obviously Ah, but it's not a German name, I see your point though, fairly apt, *waves to the other hungover dude* o/ "Confirming EVE is hot, batshit crazy, and puts out." -Omar Alharazaad "CAKE CANNOT HOLD UP TO BEING A CHARACTER DAMNIT." --áUnsuccessful At Everything |
Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
646
|
Posted - 2014.07.19 13:27:00 -
[530] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Chewytowel Haklar wrote:The game is pretty boring, and in my opinion that is what drives away new players. PvP can be thrilling, but trying to fight a maxed out character, or someone in a t2 when I am in a t1, or just trying to enjoy multiple aspects of the game and yet having to train to enjoy just one aspect while it takes weeks. I mean all that crap is what is annoying about EVE.
I've been here for 2 months. I've mined, joined a few corporations, did the faction warfare thing, actually got a couple solo kills, participated in a little here and there. Frankly I don't see the appeal. Even the Dev's admit this game is boring, and yet it maintains an appeal to people. But hey that's okay, because you know what I don't like CSI, NCIS, or other shows like that - hell, i'd never even watch dance with the stars if you paid me - but people like that kind of entertainment. Perhaps for me this is just the wrong show for me.
I would argue though that the dev's definitely haven't created enough tools to make the sandbox as versatile as it could be. Right now a lot of the game still feels very much themepark as much as others might hate to admit it. You can't really have a full blown sandbox game though anyway, it's literally impossible as a dev always has to set rules that need to be followed when using their software. The problem is that people come from other games that hold their hands. They simply have no idea what to do when the enter EVE as we have no endgame here. They are not used to long term goals or making their own content and they effectivly make themselves bored.
No, that is not the problem.
EVE has a habit of talking out of both sides of its mouth so to speak.
Being a T2 Frigate pilot in EVE is a completely legit aspect of PvP. Mastering that tier of EVE is a valid goal but try doing missions in a frigate. Try running any meaningful PvE in a frigate. Even a HAC for that matter. It's like a dog ******* a football. It's one of the things they missed when they did tiericide. PvE is still a push to battleship. It's also why our PvP is so cookie cutter. Most people train to grind ISK first, then export that to PvP. |
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Chewytowel Haklar
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
48
|
Posted - 2014.07.19 13:51:00 -
[531] - Quote
Or perhaps another part of the problem is that those in nullsec have too much power and say regarding how the game is made. Has there ever been a CSM or anyone speaking out for FW balance? PvE balance? Or suggested new player ships only, meaning that they are only usuable for new players. Perhaps even PvE only designed ships if that would work.
I mean is it simply he who has the most power has the most say and everyone else's voice is muted out by CCP? Are they so terrified to oppose the nullsec gangs that they only cater to them and their style of play? I haven't been around this game for long, but if that is the case then it has got to change. |
Remiel Pollard
The Vigilance Institute
3968
|
Posted - 2014.07.19 14:09:00 -
[532] - Quote
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:Or perhaps another part of the problem is that those in nullsec have too much power and say regarding how the game is made.
The next expansion largely addresses industry, and the biggest changes are in highsec. Lrn2troll. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita.
People complain about how 'empty' space is. Personally, I would be complaining if it were more 'full'.
|
Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
646
|
Posted - 2014.07.19 14:11:00 -
[533] - Quote
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:Or perhaps another part of the problem is that those in nullsec have too much power and say regarding how the game is made. Has there ever been a CSM or anyone speaking out for FW balance? PvE balance? Or suggested new player ships only, meaning that they are only usuable for new players. Perhaps even PvE only designed ships if that would work.
I mean is it simply he who has the most power has the most say and everyone else's voice is muted out by CCP? Are they so terrified to oppose the nullsec gangs that they only cater to them and their style of play? I haven't been around this game for long, but if that is the case then it has got to change.
Setting aside all my forum trolling prowess, the short answer is no.
PvE/ PvP gap has been around from the beginning, long before bloc power was a thing. Yes there was always a divide between Null and high sec and part of the nerf high sec campaign resulted in a BC/BS playerbase but Null content skews the same direction. There were never tier specific groups of content in either high or null that promoted tier based skill training. |
Hicksimus
Hyperion Corporation
227
|
Posted - 2014.07.19 14:12:00 -
[534] - Quote
It's funny he mentions this. My corp has a medal for "Helping CCP kill new player retention". Something does need to be done. Do you have it? |
Pheusia
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
87
|
Posted - 2014.07.19 14:14:00 -
[535] - Quote
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:Or perhaps another part of the problem is that those in nullsec have too much power and say regarding how the game is made. Has there ever been a CSM or anyone speaking out for FW balance? PvE balance? Or suggested new player ships only, meaning that they are only usuable for new players. Perhaps even PvE only designed ships if that would work.
I mean is it simply he who has the most power has the most say and everyone else's voice is muted out by CCP? Are they so terrified to oppose the nullsec gangs that they only cater to them and their style of play? I haven't been around this game for long, but if that is the case then it has got to change.
In EVE, much like in real life, people who refuse to vote don't get a lot of sympathy when their guy doesn't get elected.
Incidentally, CSM7 did have Hans Jagerblitzen, who explicitly ran on a FW platform. Of course you know that because you voted for him and put some effort into helping him get votes and then supporting him while was on the CSM instead of just ineffectually whining from a position of ignorance, right? Your question was entirely rhetorical, right?
Right?
Riiiiiiight. |
Pheusia
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
87
|
Posted - 2014.07.19 14:19:00 -
[536] - Quote
Chinwe Rhei wrote:I'm sorry to say but the last people CCP should be asking about the newbie experience are the goons.
The whole reason the NPE is so goddamn awful is because CCP has been getting advice about how to attract and keep newbies from old-player heavy and block dominated CSMs for years The CSM's ideea of a newbie experience is the goonswarm experience: getting recruited out of game, podding yourself to get to null, having isk and free ships sent your way and then being assigned a role as a cog in their machine. Which is why a bunch of t1 frigates and cruisers were given "fleet roles" that are completely useless and foreign to the average new player to the game.
That has nothing to do with what the tutorials and the newbie experience should be about, which is letting the new player experience the game, and letting him figure out what he wants to do, and encourage him to team up with other players like him and try and make it by themselves, in industry or combat or whatever it is they enjoy.
The reason newbies don't stick around is because no matter how much they are told the contrary, they see that they're too late to the party, every time they want to start their own corps they get stomped on by 8 year old players and told by "helpful" help channel residents that they should just stay in the NPC corps forever or accept being a peon in someone else's army. They see that "the EvE dream" - starting your very own corp with your friends and making a section of space your own - is a lie. It's something other people got to do when the game was still fun.
yes don't ask the organisation which has an 8 year history of supporting and valuing low-SP and casual players and does more than any other group in EVE to recruit, support and enable them to participate in nullsec right from the get go after all what would they know
You hate goons so much because they utterly disprove your wrong idea of "because no matter how much they are told the contrary, they see that they're too late to the party" |
Spurty
V0LTA Triumvirate.
1366
|
Posted - 2014.07.19 16:08:00 -
[537] - Quote
Pheusia wrote:
yes don't ask the organisation which has an 8 year history of supporting and valuing low-SP and casual players and does more than any other group in EVE to recruit, support and enable them to participate in nullsec right from the get go after all what would they know
You hate goons so much because they utterly disprove your wrong idea of "because no matter how much they are told the contrary, they see that they're too late to the party"
So if I make a new character, I'm going to be let right in without having to buy a 3rd party product (Something Awful account) and have full access to everything?
Yes mate, you are off the reservation.
Completely dysfunctional after drowning in their coolaid and being resurrected minus your brain.
No one really hates goons (because, look too closely and you feel pity) as much as the fact that the game encourages what they are doing. It's really like a catalyst for cancer. Game is, was and will always be more fun when their's no power blocks and just lots of sub 1,000 man corps floating about trying to grab 100% of their space for themselves.
Abort the rental operation whatever way you have to.
Make owning A and B worthless without owning C through Z as well.
Make it worth fighting for. *signature is not allowed on the EVE Online forums* |
admiral root
Red Galaxy
1431
|
Posted - 2014.07.19 16:14:00 -
[538] - Quote
Spurty wrote:So if I make a new character, I'm going to be let right in without having to buy a 3rd party product (Something Awful account) and have full access to everything?
If you actually read what they post (rather than seeing a goon and immediately writing off the contents of their posts) you'd know that more than one of their corps openly recruits in game in a non-scam way. No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff |
Pheusia
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
88
|
Posted - 2014.07.19 16:16:00 -
[539] - Quote
Spurty wrote:Pheusia wrote:
yes don't ask the organisation which has an 8 year history of supporting and valuing low-SP and casual players and does more than any other group in EVE to recruit, support and enable them to participate in nullsec right from the get go after all what would they know
You hate goons so much because they utterly disprove your wrong idea of "because no matter how much they are told the contrary, they see that they're too late to the party"
So if I make a new character, I'm going to be let right in without having to buy a 3rd party product (Something Awful account) and have full access to everything? Yes mate, you are off the reservation. Completely dysfunctional after drowning in their coolaid and being resurrected minus your brain. No one really hates goons (because, look too closely and you feel pity) as much as the fact that the game encourages what they are doing. It's really like a catalyst for cancer. Game is, was and will always be more fun when their's no power blocks and just lots of sub 1,000 man corps floating about trying to grab 100% of their space for themselves. Abort the rental operation whatever way you have to. Make owning A and B worthless without owning C through Z as well. Make it worth fighting for.
Sure, I'm off the reservation. Perhaps that's why I've never heard anything about Tri's new player recruitment and development program. Could you give us a quick run-down about how it's operated and what kind of numbers you've inducted over the last 8 years? |
Gallowmere Rorschach
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
469
|
Posted - 2014.07.19 16:17:00 -
[540] - Quote
admiral root wrote:Spurty wrote:So if I make a new character, I'm going to be let right in without having to buy a 3rd party product (Something Awful account) and have full access to everything? If you actually read what they post (rather than seeing a goon and immediately writing off the contents of their posts) you'd know that more than one of their corps openly recruits in game in a non-scam way. Precisely this. I'm amazed that people still seem to think that all of GSF consists only of SA members in Waffe. |
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