Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 20 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
6223
|
Posted - 2014.07.12 22:11:00 -
[151] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:
The thing is, we are not back to square one. Because you are still wrong. ?
Except by no measuring stick on the face of the planet does your criticism of someone else's choice of name as silly or inappropriate within the lore not make you hypocritical.
You dont have a counter because black =/= white "Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
|
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
2057
|
Posted - 2014.07.12 22:12:00 -
[152] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:I didn't say non lore stations, I just pointed out how base the station names they use are. It's one of the few peeves I do have with nullsec culture.
I guess I'd never name a station that way because I don't want to set that sort of tone for my organization. But that's just me, and as I've pointed out was far removed from the original point of my OP.
Serious question here: how is the names of station in sov null relevant to the retention of new players?
This whole topic seems to have been started to focus on Mittens assertions about new player retention/conversion to paying customer.
There are very few new players that venture to sov null to be scared away from the game by the names of the starbases there. The names that veteran players give to starbases in sov null has very little relevance to the thoughts of Mittens (it's not like he names every single starbase established in CFC space anyway).
Seems like a very strange line of discussion in this topic. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
. -á<- Argue this, not this ->-á( -í-¦ -£-û -í-¦) |
masternerdguy
The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology Enemy Spotted.
1771
|
Posted - 2014.07.12 22:12:00 -
[153] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:masternerdguy wrote:
The thing is, we are not back to square one. Because you are still wrong. ?
Except by no measuring stick on the face of the planet does your criticism of someone else's choice of name as silly or inappropriate within the lore not make you hypocritical. You dont have a counter because black =/= white
Ramona McCandless wrote:masternerdguy wrote:the primary purpose of my OP was not to argue lore. And yet thats the only point you made Curious
Please reread my post and explain how my points are only lore related.
Thank you. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
2039
|
Posted - 2014.07.12 22:15:00 -
[154] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Seems like a very strange line of discussion in this topic.
Indeed.
Think my OP in the thread was the last valid argument weighing the pros and cons of Mittens article.
We have been on this station name nonsense for like an hour now.
Maybe more, maybe less. Time is kinda skewed at the moment.
Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
6223
|
Posted - 2014.07.12 22:16:00 -
[155] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Please reread my post and explain how my points are only lore related.
Thank you.
OK
masternerdguy wrote:
And as for the lore, it isn't important on a day to day basis but it does set the tone of the universe, and what exists in it. Scrapping it for something as insulting as retooling the NPE to coddle people who will just quit in a month anyway is a truly insulting notion. Normally, I'm the first to defend the nullsec culture, but maybe if you named your stations something besides "TROLOLOL XOXO THIS GUY IS A PUBBIE LOLOLOL" you might understand.
Seems pretty clear to me "Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
|
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
6223
|
Posted - 2014.07.12 22:16:00 -
[156] - Quote
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:
Seems like a very strange line of discussion in this topic.
Indeed. Think my OP in the thread was the last valid argument weighing the pros and cons of Mittens article. We have been on this station name nonsense for like an hour now. Maybe more, maybe less. Time is kinda skewed at the moment.
Your right.
Im sorry, I shall stop now.
Im sick of arguing that a rock is a rock and not a sponge anyway "Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
|
masternerdguy
The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology Enemy Spotted.
1771
|
Posted - 2014.07.12 22:17:00 -
[157] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:masternerdguy wrote:I didn't say non lore stations, I just pointed out how base the station names they use are. It's one of the few peeves I do have with nullsec culture.
I guess I'd never name a station that way because I don't want to set that sort of tone for my organization. But that's just me, and as I've pointed out was far removed from the original point of my OP. Serious question here: how is the names of station in sov null relevant to the retention of new players? This whole topic seems to have been started to focus on Mittens assertions about new player retention/conversion to paying customer. There are very few new players that venture to sov null to be scared away from the game by the names of the starbases there. The names that veteran players give to starbases in sov null has very little relevance to the thoughts of Mittens (it's not like he names every single starbase established in CFC space anyway). Seems like a very strange line of discussion in this topic.
Honestly, it wouldn't even be that important in this thread if someone hadn't decided to call me out.
I wrote that in there because of the article's blatant desire to dump all the backstory to increase new player retention, which I did find distasteful, even if you aren't a roleplayer that is still part of the game's personality. But if you'll reread my OP all preceding points are unrelated, that thing is pretty much just tacked on the end.
I would personally like to talk about something else, but that's just me.
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Seems pretty clear to me
What about all my previous points, or did you skip to the end because it is tl;dr? Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1952
|
Posted - 2014.07.12 22:19:00 -
[158] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote: Serious question here: how is the names of station in sov null relevant to the retention of new players?
Seems like a very strange line of discussion in this topic.
Because as in any topic, anything said after the 3rd page is meaningless.
~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
2043
|
Posted - 2014.07.12 22:19:00 -
[159] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Your right.
Im sorry, I shall stop now.
Im sick of arguing that a rock is a rock and not a sponge anyway
It certainly isn't you.
Literally everyone from you to me to James Amril to Scipio have kicked this facile argument in the stones.
Yet MNG continues on............................................................
Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense. |
masternerdguy
The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology Enemy Spotted.
1771
|
Posted - 2014.07.12 22:21:00 -
[160] - Quote
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:
Your right.
Im sorry, I shall stop now.
Im sick of arguing that a rock is a rock and not a sponge anyway
It certainly isn't you. Literally everyone from you to me to James Amril to Scipio have kicked this facile argument in the stones. Yet MNG continues on............................................................
Actually, I'm done now too. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
|
Caleb Seremshur
The Atomic Fallout Kids
327
|
Posted - 2014.07.12 22:23:00 -
[161] - Quote
Dally Lama wrote:Funny how many of you regulars on here have always called other posters risk-averse poons when they mention how AWOXing is absurd and dumb. I've seen how many threads on it where all the usual forum bros come in with their sly comments and tear the OP apart for thinkink AWOXing in high-sec is legal CONCORD evasion. Mittens mentions it and now watch as you sheep start actually considering the logic. I really take it.more of a sign of mittani being a more effective spokesperson and csm than the last two sets combined. This is after being impeached and humiliated for.an out of turn comment that cost.him his seat on the csm itself.
There's so little transparency right now between the devs and the playerbase that people are looking at community leaders for answers instead of officials. In the real world this would be very dangerous for any ruling class but here I guess people will just unsub and quitely disappear and be forgotten. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=348015 T3 OHing subsystem review and rebalance https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=290346 LP faction weapon store costs rebalancing
|
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
2046
|
Posted - 2014.07.12 22:24:00 -
[162] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:KnowUsByTheDead wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:
Your right.
Im sorry, I shall stop now.
Im sick of arguing that a rock is a rock and not a sponge anyway
It certainly isn't you. Literally everyone from you to me to James Amril to Scipio have kicked this facile argument in the stones. Yet MNG continues on............................................................ Actually, I'm done now too.
Congrats, ladies and gentlemen, I think we have just seen a witch hunt put down, on both sides.
In the post-Teg EvE landscape, no less.
We are making progress.
\o/ Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense. |
masternerdguy
The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology Enemy Spotted.
1772
|
Posted - 2014.07.12 22:25:00 -
[163] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:Dally Lama wrote:Funny how many of you regulars on here have always called other posters risk-averse poons when they mention how AWOXing is absurd and dumb. I've seen how many threads on it where all the usual forum bros come in with their sly comments and tear the OP apart for thinkink AWOXing in high-sec is legal CONCORD evasion. Mittens mentions it and now watch as you sheep start actually considering the logic. I really take it.more of a sign of mittani being a more effective spokesperson and csm than the last two sets combined. This is after being impeached and humiliated for.an out of turn comment that cost.him his seat on the csm itself. There's so little transparency right now between the devs and the playerbase that people are looking at community leaders for answers instead of officials. In the real world this would be very dangerous for any ruling class but here I guess people will just unsub and quitely disappear and be forgotten.
But AWOXing is not absurd or dumb, it is a part of this game. It is the risk you take when you want to make a corp. Good corps can deal with them. Not to mention it allows for a level of espionage and black ops that most MMOs would never consider. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
2046
|
Posted - 2014.07.12 22:33:00 -
[164] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:
But AWOXing is not absurd or dumb, it is a part of this game. It is the risk you take when you want to make a corp. Good corps can deal with them. Not to mention it allows for a level of espionage and black ops that most MMOs would never consider.
Indeed.
And more importantly...
This is an activity that even newbies can get into.
I did it within a month. My only real goal when I started the game was to complete a heist. Imagine how hard it was to stay interested with no auxiliary goals to fulfill?
Corp aggression must remain.
Proper education about API usage, coupled with partnerships with EvE's vast 3rd party developers, can help teach how to do a background check.
As for gated newbie areas.....
While I agree that there are many things that can be taught....
Sometimes the hard lessons are the lessons you learn the most from.
Like flying an anti-tanked indy through Niarja during EU prime with all of your belongings you had accumulated in 5 months of playing.
Yep, that happened, lol.
But you learn from it.
I certainly did.
Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
2058
|
Posted - 2014.07.12 22:34:00 -
[165] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:I wrote that in there because of the article's blatant desire to dump all the backstory to increase new player retention, which I did find distasteful, even if you aren't a roleplayer that is still part of the game's personality. But if you'll reread my OP all preceding points are unrelated, that thing is pretty much just tacked on the end. I don't get that same interpretation from the article.
I think you are looking at it from a gamers perspective (which is fine), while Mittens was looking at it from more of a business focus, which in terms of improving CCPs terrible new player retention figures (from their own data presented at Fanfest) seems to be needed.
Mittens even offered a way to include lore if that was really needed, but I think he was more asserting that decisions about fixing the NPE should be based on what is good to retain new players, rather than what is traditional in terms of the lore. I agree with that personally, but there are many options that could be discussed too.
If you think keeping the lore is important, then what alternative ideas (other than a Jove based safe zone for new players) would you propose to fix the NPE? Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
. -á<- Argue this, not this ->-á( -í-¦ -£-û -í-¦) |
masternerdguy
The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology Enemy Spotted.
1773
|
Posted - 2014.07.12 22:39:00 -
[166] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:masternerdguy wrote:I wrote that in there because of the article's blatant desire to dump all the backstory to increase new player retention, which I did find distasteful, even if you aren't a roleplayer that is still part of the game's personality. But if you'll reread my OP all preceding points are unrelated, that thing is pretty much just tacked on the end. I don't get that same interpretation from the article. I think you are looking at it from a gamers perspective (which is fine), while Mittens was looking at it from more of a business focus, which in terms of improving CCPs terrible new player retention figures (from their own data presented at Fanfest) seems to be needed. Mittens even offered a way to include lore if that was really needed, but I think he was more asserting that decisions about fixing the NPE should be based on what is good to retain new players, rather than what is traditional in terms of the lore. I agree with that personally, but there are many options that could be discussed too. If you think keeping the lore is important, then what alternative ideas (other than a Jove based safe zone for new players) would you propose to fix the NPE?
Well, for one thing why do they have to be Jove of all things
More seriously, I would increase new player retention by trying to funnel players into player corps and alliances as quickly as possible. Ideally, all new players should be in a corp by week 2 (aka end of trial). Player should be taught that there are good corps and bad corps and that they should be a careful shopper.
I would also put more emphasis on the dangerous outer reaches of space beyond the empires (or however you want to word it) but keep reinforcing that it is dangerous to go there alone. Reinforce the idea that these dangers can be overcome by teamwork and cooperation (which is true).
I prefer to help people by giving them the tools to help themselves, not by spoon feeding them. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Mathrin
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
119
|
Posted - 2014.07.12 22:43:00 -
[167] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Caleb Seremshur wrote:Dally Lama wrote:Funny how many of you regulars on here have always called other posters risk-averse poons when they mention how AWOXing is absurd and dumb. I've seen how many threads on it where all the usual forum bros come in with their sly comments and tear the OP apart for thinkink AWOXing in high-sec is legal CONCORD evasion. Mittens mentions it and now watch as you sheep start actually considering the logic. I really take it.more of a sign of mittani being a more effective spokesperson and csm than the last two sets combined. This is after being impeached and humiliated for.an out of turn comment that cost.him his seat on the csm itself. There's so little transparency right now between the devs and the playerbase that people are looking at community leaders for answers instead of officials. In the real world this would be very dangerous for any ruling class but here I guess people will just unsub and quitely disappear and be forgotten. But AWOXing is not absurd or dumb, it is a part of this game. It is the risk you take when you want to make a corp. Good corps can deal with them. Not to mention it allows for a level of espionage and black ops that most MMOs would never consider.
It is part of the game, but it currently hurts the NPE, which hurts us all. If taking it away is what needs to be done fine. I would prefer to see NPC corps perform a useful role with NPE like it should be doing. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10636
|
Posted - 2014.07.12 22:45:00 -
[168] - Quote
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:witch hunt That wasn't a witch hunt. It doesn't even remotely resemble one. Do you even know what that phrase means? No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
2059
|
Posted - 2014.07.12 22:47:00 -
[169] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Well, for one thing why do they have to be Jove of all things They don't. It's just one persons thought.
Quote:More seriously, I would increase new player retention by trying to funnel players into player corps and alliances as quickly as possible. Ideally, all new players should be in a corp by week 2 (aka end of trial). Player should be taught that there are good corps and bad corps and that they should be a careful shopper. That goes back in part to the risk aversion of many Corps, particularly in highsec, many of whom are reluctant to take on new players because of spies and awoxers.
Sending everyone towards Eve-Uni, RvB or BNI (which is a common recommendation many of us make to new players) isn't a solution either.
So being a careful shopper as a player doesn't overcome the Corps also being careful shoppers.
Quote:I would also put more emphasis on the dangerous outer reaches of space beyond the empires (or however you want to word it) but keep reinforcing that it is dangerous to go there alone. Reinforce the idea that these dangers can be overcome by teamwork and cooperation (which is true).
I prefer to help people by giving them the tools to help themselves, not by spoon feeding them. How would this work in your view?
Many people join this game without having a focus on getting into combat (the game suits city builders as much as it does pvpers), and even veteran players are careful in the activities they conduct in lowsec and nullsec that make them an easy target.
By forcing players to head to lowsec and nullsec (my interpretation of what you mean by more emphasis on dangerous outer space), doesn't that risk losing many new players that could otherwise also learn about the city building aspects of the game? Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
. -á<- Argue this, not this ->-á( -í-¦ -£-û -í-¦) |
masternerdguy
The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology Enemy Spotted.
1775
|
Posted - 2014.07.12 22:51:00 -
[170] - Quote
Mathrin wrote:
It is part of the game, but it currently hurts the NPE, which hurts us all. If taking it away is what needs to be done fine. I would prefer to see NPC corps perform a useful role with NPE like it should be doing.
The problem is, we come back to the issue of giving an inch and taking a mile.
At some point, they have to be exposed to these things. And, unfortunately, these are hard lessons that people are only going to learn when it happens (or maybe not even after it happens, some people never learn). Scrapping features because they might scare off a new player is a bad idea because where do we draw the line?
The NPE should be about informing new players of the dangers of the universe, telling them that none of them cannot be overcome by teamwork and cooperation, and showing them where they can find corps to join.
I wouldn't even be opposed to allowing large alliances (# players > 500? we can talk about that) to run periodic in-game circulars that would be sent to trial accounts and / or accounts below a certain age via in-game mail.
But above all, new players need to understand this is a team effort, and that by going it alone they are handicapping themselves. And they should understand that their actions have consequences.
But beyond that, people need to be allowed to succeed or fail on their own merits. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
|
Layne Rockefeller
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
5
|
Posted - 2014.07.12 22:51:00 -
[171] - Quote
So, the first half of this I'm completely on board with. I'm all good with the HTFU mentality, but even that itself seems only to kick in once people have SOME kind of grasp of the game, and I don't see what harm it would be to really allow people to be immersed in a tutorial setting.
The second half, I'm not so sold on. Seems more like a balance issue than a sacred cow issue, but Mittani is, as state, coming from a go-for-broke angle of trying to make drastic changes. I think fixing neutral reps in high sec would actually go a longer way. Awoxing is a content-generating part of the game; it might just need to be identified as such and balanced. |
masternerdguy
The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology Enemy Spotted.
1775
|
Posted - 2014.07.12 22:54:00 -
[172] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote: By forcing players to head to lowsec and nullsec (my interpretation of what you mean by more emphasis on dangerous outer space), doesn't that risk losing many new players that could otherwise also learn about the city building aspects of the game?
Not all alliances are in those places. And, after the industry revamp, I have a feeling industry in nullsec is going to improve a lot. I mean, even now they could join a renter alliance that literally never PVPs and just rats and does industry and docks up when someone is in local.
My bigger idea is that they need to be funneled into places they will make friends, and fast. NPC corp chats are toxic to new players. I was one once.
As for risk aversion, CCP can't change that because it is a mentality. For every locked down, risk averse, corp there is one that is not (at least in my experience, after all isn't that why AWOXing is even possible). Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Felicity Love
Ka'ra Shabuir Inc.
2024
|
Posted - 2014.07.12 22:57:00 -
[173] - Quote
KnowUsByTheDead wrote: As for gated newbie areas.....
....mmmmmmm... gated newbie areas... and just outside, clouds of gankers waiting to pounce upon the nooblets as they open their eyes for the first time and peer out into the vastness of a space that has been salivating at the thought of being "first" to crush them in their infancy.
Sure, I readily admit that I'm probably taking the poster's words out of context -- but not for some pilots because THAT IS how some people like to play the game and it's not like anyone here hasn't experienced the ****** end of the stick at some point.
( cue various "Get Over It" witticisms... )
Let's all have a hug and sing "Kumbaya".
"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.-á-á ( Pick four, any four. They all smell. -á)
|
masternerdguy
The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology Enemy Spotted.
1778
|
Posted - 2014.07.12 23:00:00 -
[174] - Quote
And, something nobody else is mentioning, why not teach self defense?
Just because you want to be a miner doesn't mean you can't handle yourself in a sticky situation. Even if you are just trying to avoid PVP, there are lots of defensive tips that would allow them to survive in the less safe regions. These same tips will reduce their chances of being AWOXed, and will help new players in a war dec.
Instead of coddling them, embrace the danger and show them how to defend themselves. Remember that in the military even the Cook and Radio guy knows how to use a machine gun. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
2059
|
Posted - 2014.07.12 23:01:00 -
[175] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Not all alliances are in those places. And, after the industry revamp, I have a feeling industry in nullsec is going to improve a lot. I mean, even now they could join a renter alliance that literally never PVPs and just rats and does industry and docks up when someone is in local.
My bigger idea is that they need to be funneled into places they will make friends, and fast. NPC corp chats are toxic to new players. I was one once.
As for risk aversion, CCP can't change that because it is a mentality. For every locked down, risk averse, corp there is one that is not (at least in my experience, after all isn't that why AWOXing is even possible).
There are huge industrial and PVE riches in nullsec and lo sec and wormholes too, PVP is just a risk. Ok, then to come back to the first question in my previous post:
How would this exactly work in your view?
What are the mechanics of this?
What is the NPE going to look like to achieve that?
Where are these places they'll make friends and how do you protect those places from people who only want to pretend to be friends?
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
. -á<- Argue this, not this ->-á( -í-¦ -£-û -í-¦) |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
6229
|
Posted - 2014.07.12 23:01:00 -
[176] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:And, something nobody else is mentioning, why not teach self defense?
Just because you want to be a miner doesn't mean you can't handle yourself in a sticky situation. Even if you are just trying to avoid PVP, there are lots of defensive tips that would allow them to survive in the less safe regions. These same tips will reduce their chances of being AWOXed, and will help new players in a war dec.
Instead of coddling them, embrace the danger and show them how to defend themselves. Remember that in the military even the Cook and Radio guy knows how to use a machine gun.
See, if we forget all about our earlier scuffle, we have a lot we agree on
+1 again "Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
|
masternerdguy
The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology Enemy Spotted.
1778
|
Posted - 2014.07.12 23:02:00 -
[177] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:masternerdguy wrote:And, something nobody else is mentioning, why not teach self defense?
Just because you want to be a miner doesn't mean you can't handle yourself in a sticky situation. Even if you are just trying to avoid PVP, there are lots of defensive tips that would allow them to survive in the less safe regions. These same tips will reduce their chances of being AWOXed, and will help new players in a war dec.
Instead of coddling them, embrace the danger and show them how to defend themselves. Remember that in the military even the Cook and Radio guy knows how to use a machine gun. See, if we forget all about our earlier scuffle, we have a lot we agree on +1 again
Scuffle is long behind me
Every post is a new day. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Mathrin
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
119
|
Posted - 2014.07.12 23:03:00 -
[178] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Mathrin wrote:
It is part of the game, but it currently hurts the NPE, which hurts us all. If taking it away is what needs to be done fine. I would prefer to see NPC corps perform a useful role with NPE like it should be doing.
The problem is, we come back to the issue of giving an inch and taking a mile. At some point, they have to be exposed to these things. And, unfortunately, these are hard lessons that people are only going to learn when it happens (or maybe not even after it happens, some people never learn). Scrapping features because they might scare off a new player is a bad idea because where do we draw the line? The NPE should be about informing new players of the dangers of the universe, telling them that none of them cannot be overcome by teamwork and cooperation, and showing them where they can find corps to join. I wouldn't even be opposed to allowing large alliances (# players > 500? we can talk about that) to run periodic in-game circulars that would be sent to trial accounts and / or accounts below a certain age via in-game mail. But above all, new players need to understand this is a team effort, and that by going it alone they are handicapping themselves. And they should understand that their actions have consequences. But beyond that, people need to be allowed to succeed or fail on their own merits.
While I agree with what you say about new players needing to be exposed to these thing eventually I think the issue is when is that time. New players need a chance to learn things like fitting, basic isk making, and basic mechanics before they are thrown to the wolves. Also as I mentioned before I would rather see things like awoxing say, it makes eve eve. The thing is, if it stay at the cost of new players... There is no more eve.
|
masternerdguy
The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology Enemy Spotted.
1780
|
Posted - 2014.07.12 23:08:00 -
[179] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:masternerdguy wrote:Not all alliances are in those places. And, after the industry revamp, I have a feeling industry in nullsec is going to improve a lot. I mean, even now they could join a renter alliance that literally never PVPs and just rats and does industry and docks up when someone is in local.
My bigger idea is that they need to be funneled into places they will make friends, and fast. NPC corp chats are toxic to new players. I was one once.
As for risk aversion, CCP can't change that because it is a mentality. For every locked down, risk averse, corp there is one that is not (at least in my experience, after all isn't that why AWOXing is even possible).
There are huge industrial and PVE riches in nullsec and lo sec and wormholes too, PVP is just a risk. Ok, then to come back to the first question in my previous post: How would this exactly work in your view? What are the mechanics of this? What is the NPE going to look like to achieve that? Where are these places they'll make friends and how do you protect those places from people who only want to pretend to be friends?
I like the idea of allowing alliances above a certain size to send a circular to new players (defined by CCP) inviting them for an interview. Since this would be a CCP sanctioned mechanic, abuse of it to grief new players could be fairly punished (that way new players could trust that the official circulars are legitimate).
We also need some good tutorials that link to out of game resources (ideally video, but well written text is good too) that explain, clearly, the risks and rewards of this game and how a corp is your best bet for success.
Finally, we should offer the option to start a character that immediately is enlisted in FW. This would be optional and could be sold as a hard start / military career / etc at character creation.
At this point, if someone decided to say in the darkness it's kind of their problem. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.
I'm sure we can add to this list. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
masternerdguy
The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology Enemy Spotted.
1780
|
Posted - 2014.07.12 23:13:00 -
[180] - Quote
Mathrin wrote:
While I agree with what you say about new players needing to be exposed to these thing eventually I think the issue is when is that time. New players need a chance to learn things like fitting, basic isk making, and basic mechanics before they are thrown to the wolves. Also as I mentioned before I would rather see things like awoxing say, it makes eve eve. The thing is, if it stay at the cost of new players... There is no more eve.
Those basics aren't so basic. For example, what is basic isk making? If you ask someone in hi sec they'll say L4 missions. A nullsecer will tell you to run anoms or rat. Miners will tell you to mine, etc.
The one thing that was never uncertain to me in this game was how to make isk at the start. I actually started mining because it was so obvious.
We already have tutorials to teach many of thee things. It's not CCP's fault someone hit "skip". Actually, I skipped every tutorial in 2007 and turned out fine. The first thing I did was warp to a stargate and jump.
Remember there are people who think that people flying Hulks are "new players". How are we even defining a new player? Not all people learn at the same rate, but a non-time based measurement is unfair.
There are false-friends in the real world too, you learn from experience how to tell the difference. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 20 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |