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thetwilitehour
GoonWaffe
263
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Posted - 2014.07.13 01:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
Make some pos modules that give (individually) bonuses to:
Refining gas in wormholes (Cgases) Refining "regular" gas in wormholes Booster production T3 invention T3 Production
And add in some kind of crazy hybrid booster with even larger bonuses.
I don't really understand why CCP has made it so that the only industry that makes sense to do in wormholes is PI and some minor ammunition production (and cap production in C1-C4s to generate hilarious lossmails)
I'm sure this has been suggested a bunch of times, but I'm a goon so something might actually happen.
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Winthorp
1873
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Posted - 2014.07.13 02:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
thetwilitehour wrote: I'm sure this has been suggested a bunch of times, but I'm a goon so something might actually happen.
Its so sad that this part isn't even wrong. |
Proclus Diadochu
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
1838
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Posted - 2014.07.13 04:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
They could fit this into the C4 Dual Static Highway expansion... that should happen :)
**Irrelevant-á| Twitter: @autoritare | [email protected] My Blog: http://diogenes-club.blogspot.com/ | The Diogenes Club |
Cyno Saraki
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.07.13 05:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
Proclus Diadochu wrote:They could fit this into the C4 Dual Static Highway expansion... that should happen :)
Sure thing Pro, As long as I get to keep RS boosted sentries in my Domi's & system wide grid {server de-sync}.... |
Hatshepsut IV
Cascading Failure Un.Bound
140
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Posted - 2014.07.13 05:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
thetwilitehour wrote:... but I'm a goon so something might actually happen.
Around here about all that's good for is a 20 page thread about how goons don't belong yada yada yada. You too can start failing today! Reddit-áad | Cascading Failure Public Channel | Aspiring Failure
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Paikis
Lycosa Syndicate Surely You're Joking
1275
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Posted - 2014.07.13 09:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
"Refining" gas.
/facepalm |
thetwilitehour
GoonWaffe
263
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Posted - 2014.07.13 17:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
Paikis wrote:"Refining" gas.
/facepalm
Sperging out when someone intentionally uses the wrong word to draw a parallel to the new null sec mineral refining bonus.
Feel free to cry more about how you're the worst kind of person when someone is genuinely advocating on behalf of wormhole space, trying to create a larger niche for w-space players and a built in conflict driver. |
Kalel Nimrott
1094
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 17:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
thetwilitehour wrote:Paikis wrote:"Refining" gas.
/facepalm Sperging out when someone intentionally uses the wrong word to draw a parallel to the new null sec mineral refining bonus. Feel free to cry more about how you're the worst kind of person when someone is genuinely advocating on behalf of wormhole space, trying to create a larger niche for w-space players and a built in conflict driver.
Or you could just ignore that remark at all. Brasil, decime qu+¬ se siente / tener en casa a tu pap+í / Te juro, que aunque pasen los a+¦os / nunca nos vamos a olvidar / Que el Diego te gambete+¦ / que Cani te vacun+¦ / que est+ís llorando desde Italia hasta hoy |
thetwilitehour
GoonWaffe
263
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 17:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
Kalel Nimrott wrote:thetwilitehour wrote:Paikis wrote:"Refining" gas.
/facepalm Sperging out when someone intentionally uses the wrong word to draw a parallel to the new null sec mineral refining bonus. Feel free to cry more about how you're the worst kind of person when someone is genuinely advocating on behalf of wormhole space, trying to create a larger niche for w-space players and a built in conflict driver. Or you could just ignore that remark at all.
Part of why I made it is to try and expose how insular and ultimately toxic the wh community is, which is part of why there is less and less wormhole activity, aside from farmers, and the remaining conglomerations of pvp corps. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
2281
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 18:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
thetwilitehour wrote:Kalel Nimrott wrote:thetwilitehour wrote:Paikis wrote:"Refining" gas.
/facepalm Sperging out when someone intentionally uses the wrong word to draw a parallel to the new null sec mineral refining bonus. Feel free to cry more about how you're the worst kind of person when someone is genuinely advocating on behalf of wormhole space, trying to create a larger niche for w-space players and a built in conflict driver. Or you could just ignore that remark at all. Part of why I made it is to try and expose how insular and ultimately toxic the wh community is, which is part of why there is less and less wormhole activity, aside from farmers, and the remaining conglomerations of pvp corps.
Part of the face palm is not because of the toxic nature of The WH community but because it is such an utterly fail statement.
The only thing WH gases are used for is polymers. And there are already pos modules to do that. Given the many POS setups I've encountered there are plenty of WH entities making polymers from their gases.
So in short there is already a mod for that. |
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thetwilitehour
GoonWaffe
263
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Posted - 2014.07.13 18:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:thetwilitehour wrote:Kalel Nimrott wrote:thetwilitehour wrote:Paikis wrote:"Refining" gas.
/facepalm Sperging out when someone intentionally uses the wrong word to draw a parallel to the new null sec mineral refining bonus. Feel free to cry more about how you're the worst kind of person when someone is genuinely advocating on behalf of wormhole space, trying to create a larger niche for w-space players and a built in conflict driver. Or you could just ignore that remark at all. Part of why I made it is to try and expose how insular and ultimately toxic the wh community is, which is part of why there is less and less wormhole activity, aside from farmers, and the remaining conglomerations of pvp corps. Part of the face palm is not because of the toxic nature of The WH community but because it is such an utterly fail statement. The only thing WH gases are used for is polymers. And there are already pos modules to do that. Given the many POS setups I've encountered there are plenty of WH entities making polymers from their gases. So in short there is already a mod for that.
Oh I get it. You don't understand what a bonus is. A bonus means that there would be an actual reason to doing it in wormhole space as opposed to k-space. They could do it like the low-sec Thukker capital construction pos module, create a faction module that costs more but gives you a better return when you react your gas into polymers. I hope you understand now, if you still don't understand, feel free to post some more and I'll explain it. Right now the only real reason to react the gas in wh space to polymers is for the compression, or because you're a specialized wormhole corp and can't effectively defend/operate a pos outside your home hole. |
Paikis
Lycosa Syndicate Surely You're Joking
1275
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Posted - 2014.07.13 21:04:00 -
[12] - Quote
There is already a reason to react your gas in wormhole space. Volume.
A Vital Core has 6,000 units at 60,000m3 of c540. The c84 required to react all of that gas is another 12,000m3, the megacyte is negligible.
So 72,000m3 and change to haul un-reacted gas out, or I can react it in the wormhole where I mined it, and not only will I still make 2.5mil per hour per reactor (current Jita prices) but I will only have to haul 1,200m3 worth of C3-FTM Acid.
Bonus for reacting in a wormhole? Compression. Compression is your bonus. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
2282
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Posted - 2014.07.13 21:13:00 -
[13] - Quote
thetwilitehour wrote:Oh I get it. You don't understand what a bonus is. A bonus means that there would be an actual reason to doing it in wormhole space as opposed to k-space. They could do it like the low-sec Thukker capital construction pos module, create a faction module that costs more but gives you a better return when you react your gas into polymers. I hope you understand now, if you still don't understand, feel free to post some more and I'll explain it. Right now the only real reason to react the gas in wh space to polymers is for the compression, or because you're a specialized wormhole corp and can't effectively defend/operate a pos outside your home hole.
Oh i understand what a bonus is. As Paikis already said, the main bonus is compression. A second bonus is logistics (you already have the gas in the WH).
In general the kind of bonuses you recommend don't really help much. Overall much of those things are crappy returns on effort anyhow.
Probably much like in 0.0 space. Why waste time mining when you can farm those sweet anoms for less effort and better isk/hr.
I used to sometimes collect WH gas. But when I can clear an sleeper anom in 10-12 min and pull in 100mil I kinda don't bother anymore. Even if you added a bonus for reacting the gas it still wouldn't make it worth my time.
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Elmonky
Titans of The Short Bus Universal Consortium
75
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Posted - 2014.07.14 16:23:00 -
[14] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:
I used to sometimes collect WH gas. But when I can clear an sleeper anom in 10-12 min and pull in 100mil I kinda don't bother anymore. Even if you added a bonus for reacting the gas it still wouldn't make it worth my time.
In a C4? Due to the loot changes this only sounds like absolute BS.
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Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
2286
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Posted - 2014.07.14 16:35:00 -
[15] - Quote
Elmonky wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:
I used to sometimes collect WH gas. But when I can clear an sleeper anom in 10-12 min and pull in 100mil I kinda don't bother anymore. Even if you added a bonus for reacting the gas it still wouldn't make it worth my time.
In a C4? Due to the loot changes this only sounds like absolute BS.
Frontier Barracks still averages around 80-110mil depending on ribbon drops. So maybe on average now I pull in 90 mil per site if you want to nitpick the numbers. Even with no ribbons (barracks blue loot value is ~65mil) it is still a far superior isk/hr than collecting the gas and reacting it (which was the point).
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Andrew Jester
Origin. Black Legion.
441
|
Posted - 2014.07.14 16:54:00 -
[16] - Quote
Hatshepsut IV wrote:thetwilitehour wrote:... but I'm a goon so something might actually happen.
Around here about all that's good for is a 20 page thread about how goons don't belong yada yada yada.
brb necroing that thread another nag needs to die If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy |
corbexx
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
428
|
Posted - 2014.07.14 18:03:00 -
[17] - Quote
This is attually a pretty legit idea. As pointed out low sec will have the Thukker capital construction pos module. I know a fair few groups who make t3 stuff in wh space and maybe giving a small bonus would help them out.
People really should look beyond the corp/allaince tag.
Corbexx for CSM 9 - Wormholes deserve better |
Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
499
|
Posted - 2014.07.14 18:37:00 -
[18] - Quote
corbexx wrote:This is attually a pretty legit idea. As pointed out low sec will have the Thukker capital construction pos module. I know a fair few groups who make t3 stuff in wh space and maybe giving a small bonus would help them out.
People really should look beyond the corp/allaince tag.
Look beyond tag? I ... seee... grr... ooo...ns... aahahahaha
(head explodes for attempting to not be a biggot)
With that said, Gas refining in total is bad (requires pos with anchoring roles, meaning generally only the directors and CEO can do that). This is a bit of a giant hoop to jump through, and not necessarily a good one. The whole gas and drug manufacturing needs to be mildly overhauled. To refine a wormhole gas, you need the following:
Two Silos, One coupling array, the refinery and a destination silo. all which requires roles to make. I get the time process for processing this stuff but the method is just bizarre. There is a way around it though.
1) Remove the Silos from Polymer Reactor Arrays. 2) Add storage to the polymer reactor array. Anybody can access it, give it 20,000m3 of space. Allow the POS bonuses to effect its storage. (amarr it goes up to 30,000 m3, gallente 40,000 m3). Increase its 3) Make it simple, people put in the correct amount of stuff in it (lets say 1000 C50 and 500 C60, and 5000 tritanium, and the Hybrid Reaction type). The person hits the big button saying "react"? Bam. 3 seconds later, you have your Fulleroferrocene (5,000 units). 4) The reactor goes immediately offline and begins to online itself. Its onlining time is based on the amount of product produced. For each batch is 1 hour. That was equal to 5 batches, so it takes 5 hours to online. During this time, product can be added/removed from the Reactor while its onlining. After the time expires, it can be reused, or offlined/unanchored.
This allows anybody to react their own gas if they want to, without the needs for roles, using something that is simple and instant, from a module they can have access to (without going through the whole onlining offlining silo's or the drag and drop interface.
Think of it as refining materials in a starbase, with a cooldown. Stuff goes in, person gets instant result, the machine starts a cooldown timer (from as little as 1 hour to as long at 4 days, depending on the POS it is in). If people want more reactions faster, they can anchor more Polymer Reactor Arrays.
This causes people to not make instant pos's just for reacting stuff instantly as the reactor cooldown would stop them from just onlining and offlining pos's.
No more silo's, no more role requirements, just drop your two gasses, your mineral and reaction, hit a button, instant product, module goes on cooldown for the same amount of time it would have taken to process the gasses in the old traditional method.
This could be done for drug labs also. Similar concepts could be done with the other reactors also. Heck you can even put a little countdown ontop of the module so that everybody knows it has just been used, and that the pos is in a weakened state as it had to switch modules off in order to accommodate this processor.
The silo juggle is ancient. Make the results instant, put the module on a cooldown, and give it access to everybody without requiring High End Roles. Yaay!!!! |
corbexx
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
429
|
Posted - 2014.07.14 19:06:00 -
[19] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:corbexx wrote:This is attually a pretty legit idea. As pointed out low sec will have the Thukker capital construction pos module. I know a fair few groups who make t3 stuff in wh space and maybe giving a small bonus would help them out.
People really should look beyond the corp/allaince tag.
Look beyond tag? I ... seee... grr... ooo...ns... aahahahaha (head explodes for attempting to not be a biggot) With that said, Gas refining in total is bad (requires pos with anchoring roles, meaning generally only the directors and CEO can do that). This is a bit of a giant hoop to jump through, and not necessarily a good one. The whole gas and drug manufacturing needs to be mildly overhauled. To refine a wormhole gas, you need the following: Two Silos, One coupling array, the refinery and a destination silo. all which requires roles to make. I get the time process for processing this stuff but the method is just bizarre. There is a way around it though. 1) Remove the Silos from Polymer Reactor Arrays. 2) Add storage to the polymer reactor array. Anybody can access it, give it 20,000m3 of space. Allow the POS bonuses to effect its storage. (amarr it goes up to 30,000 m3, gallente 40,000 m3). Increase its 3) Make it simple, people put in the correct amount of stuff in it (lets say 1000 C50 and 500 C60, and 5000 tritanium, and the Hybrid Reaction type). The person hits the big button saying "react"? Bam. 3 seconds later, you have your Fulleroferrocene (5,000 units). 4) The reactor goes immediately offline and begins to online itself. Its onlining time is based on the amount of product produced. For each batch is 1 hour. That was equal to 5 batches, so it takes 5 hours to online. During this time, product can be added/removed from the Reactor while its onlining. After the time expires, it can be reused, or offlined/unanchored. This allows anybody to react their own gas if they want to, without the needs for roles, using something that is simple and instant, from a module they can have access to (without going through the whole onlining offlining silo's or the drag and drop interface. Think of it as refining materials in a starbase, with a cooldown. Stuff goes in, person gets instant result, the machine starts a cooldown timer (from as little as 1 hour to as long at 4 days, depending on the POS it is in). If people want more reactions faster, they can anchor more Polymer Reactor Arrays. This causes people to not make instant pos's just for reacting stuff instantly as the reactor cooldown would stop them from just onlining and offlining pos's. No more silo's, no more role requirements, just drop your two gasses, your mineral and reaction, hit a button, instant product, module goes on cooldown for the same amount of time it would have taken to process the gasses in the old traditional method. This could be done for drug labs also. Similar concepts could be done with the other reactors also. Heck you can even put a little countdown ontop of the module so that everybody knows it has just been used, and that the pos is in a weakened state as it had to switch modules off in order to accommodate this processor. The silo juggle is ancient. Make the results instant, put the module on a cooldown, and give it access to everybody without requiring High End Roles.
forget the silos, yeah i agree that can be a pain in the arse in w-space.
but think, array that gives you 10 or 15% off making t3 hulls or something only deployable in w-space, I know loads of people who live in low class wh's who make them and its a little bonus to them. I know some big groups do as well so would help them.
hell think outside the box and say you need sleeper salvage to make this array. and boom potentially a double whammy.
Corbexx for CSM 9 - Wormholes deserve better |
MooMooDachshundCow
Incertae Sedis
22
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Posted - 2014.07.14 19:26:00 -
[20] - Quote
I agree that compression is its own bonus. That said, I think that having more incentives to do wormhole things inside wormholes is always good. In this case, I see these arrays bringing more people into a POS to do their gas mining instead of perhaps just doing day trips. Anything we can do to encourage people to settle inside Anoikis should be encouraged IMHO since more people means more content.
I don't agree that the job should be instant. I like the integrated silos idea, and perhaps even giving bonuses or something to special faction versions of the reactor, but I think the instant button goes against the feel of the game. I'm not in love with the "loading bars online" aspect of Eve, but it's still a part of it. In the case of gas you're talking about industry. I think part of industry to planning and scheduling. Certainly you would still need to plan your cooldown timers, but making the reaction instant is a bit too easy/goes against the feel of the rest of the game.
It would be like if when you completed an order they had little spew cans come out of the reactor that you had to click really quick before they disappear; a terrible idea that doesn't fit the established feel of the game. |
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
286
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 12:46:00 -
[21] - Quote
More free stuff please. Bonuses for everyone. More more more. Give it to me now. |
unimatrix0030
Viperfleet Inc. Disavowed.
119
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Posted - 2014.07.17 12:43:00 -
[22] - Quote
Would be a good idea to add such a thing. I bet the number of posses will rise in low sec to use that thukker module. If we can get more people into w-space with such a thing why not? |
Kirasten
No Vacancies
20
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Posted - 2014.07.17 23:22:00 -
[23] - Quote
I don't see a downside here. It won't mess with our current mechanics in a negative way and could potentially draw new inhabitants.
+1 |
thetwilitehour
GoonWaffe
270
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 03:43:00 -
[24] - Quote
Maybe Blackholes could have an industrial bonus. Or alternatively, every wormhole affect could gain a single industrial bonus, with the most for blackholes.
Spitballing: Red Giant : bonus to invention chance Magnetar : bonus to weapon module production Pulsar: bonus to shield module production Wolf-Rayet: bonus to armor modules Black hole: bonus to production in general (PE/TE)
Again this is intended as a mechanic that supports conflict drivers, and entices producers into wormholes. When/if CCP fixes the cost scaling with POS modules it could become even more of a thing. Especially if they consider making the bonus stack system wide if it's non sov space (in sov space it would be too absurd imo, and I know GSF would have systems with hundreds of bonus to capital production modules in pos to drive costs down) |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
290
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 11:26:00 -
[25] - Quote
Holy crap. Just stop w/ the buff our wh stuff. It's the most lucrative place in eve. It doesn't really need 'more' to draw folks it - It is already the definition of more as far as eve goes.
Is there a module to keep the panhandlers out of this forum? I would pay mega sleeper bucks to just end the parade of beggars pitching for handouts.
And cut the 'this will create content' stuff while you're at it. Players create content, not modules or spiffy add ons. Do we really want to draw the players that need 'more handouts' into wh?
On a serious note. I think there should be a faction sleeper spawn that drops Bitter WH Vet death rays (only drops in black hole systems - of course). Can only be fitted by players w/ 5+ years living in wh. Allows the user the ability to one shot any ship in any wh once / hour. Such a module would surely create content and drive conflict. It would remove all the percieved wh stagnation issues. |
Andrew Jester
Origin. Black Legion.
458
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 11:42:00 -
[26] - Quote
Guys pls quadruple the amount that sleepers give, it'll totally give content drive players to WHs and drive conflict. If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy |
thetwilitehour
GoonWaffe
270
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 16:21:00 -
[27] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Holy crap. Just stop w/ the buff our wh stuff. It's the most lucrative place in eve. It doesn't really need 'more' to draw folks it - It is already the definition of more as far as eve goes.
Is there a module to keep the panhandlers out of this forum? I would pay mega sleeper bucks to just end the parade of beggars pitching for handouts.
And cut the 'this will create content' stuff while you're at it. Players create content, not modules or spiffy add ons. Do we really want to draw the players that need 'more handouts' into wh?
On a serious note. I think there should be a faction sleeper spawn that drops Bitter WH Vet death rays (only drops in black hole systems - of course). Can only be fitted by players w/ 5+ years living in wh. Allows the user the ability to one shot any ship in any wh once / hour. Such a module would surely create content and drive conflict. It would remove all the percieved wh stagnation issues.
Actually none of these things buff most of the stuff going on in wormhole space currently, which is basically people farming sleeper sites, spamming slamming through gas, and people blobbing in hordes of t3 other people who cannot flash form a gang of 10+ with 30% logi to fight them, accusing them of being farmers, and evicting them.
All these ideas would add new modes of play to wormhole space, without significantly buffing the base income that is derived from sleeper and gas spawns significantly. What it would do is add in incentives for industrialists to move out of high sec and into wormholes and do something other than PI there, which would introduce new players to wormhole life, and provide them with some kind of incentive to move up the chain of wormholes, since these kinds of buffs would scale with the c-class of the hole. Right now there is a real gap between PI in a C1-C2 with a good static, solo farming a C3-C4, both of which can be done more or less solo or in extremely small groups, and moving up to a "deep wormhole" capable of cap escalations and caps moving in and out. I'm sorry that you don't recognize that.
I'm sure you're making good isk and probably at the same time bemoaning the lack of fights in other threads blissfully unaware of the way the politics of WH space have come to resemble null-sec in miniature. Thankfully wormhole space by it's very nature resists the supercap stranglehold that inhibits new entities from joining in, and blobbing a well set up lower class wormhole is certainly possible, but with a set of incentives in place you might see an influx of new players. Especially with the Crius emphasis on industry, many industry focused players will find themselves with falling margins due to the scaling cost of installing jobs and competition etc.. if WH space had some slight buffs to industry they might find it worth the move.
Also I guess i should point out there's no way in hell I'm going to personally do industry in a WH, I'm part of the strongest coalition in Eve, with the best financial team, there's no possible way that WH space is going to be more lucrative than taking advantage of the industrial complex the CFC is building up. But feel free to continue making what are essentially ad hominem attacks, the fact you can't come up with a real rational argument against my ideas proves there worth.
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
292
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Posted - 2014.07.18 17:33:00 -
[28] - Quote
I'd like you to refute my death ray idea. It's as good as any of yours. It's interesting how you spew multiple 'good ideas' and then feel the need to belittle my good idea. The bitter vet death ray just cuts through all the middle crap and gets us right to the end game.
Please explain to me how a bitter vet death ray would not create content and drive conflict. I think you're just jealous that my idea is better than yours. I just went superlative early. Death ray always wins!!!! If I had the death ray - you'd want it. If you couldn't have one - for sure you'd want to destroy mine. There is nothing and I do mean NOTHING more betterer than a bitter vet death ray.
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thetwilitehour
GoonWaffe
270
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 20:22:00 -
[29] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:I'd like you to refute my death ray idea. It's as good as any of yours. It's interesting how you spew multiple 'good ideas' and then feel the need to belittle my good idea. The bitter vet death ray just cuts through all the middle crap and gets us right to the end game.
Please explain to me how a bitter vet death ray would not create content and drive conflict. I think you're just jealous that my idea is better than yours. I just went superlative early. Death ray always wins!!!! If I had the death ray - you'd want it. If you couldn't have one - for sure you'd want to destroy mine. There is nothing and I do mean NOTHING more betterer than a bitter vet death ray.
We have literally hundreds of death rays in the CFC dude, they're called titans. Step up to our level small son. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
293
|
Posted - 2014.07.19 04:23:00 -
[30] - Quote
OK, cool, so we're in agreement then.
WH get system effects
Null gets system bonus
Thank you for explaining the difference. I get it now. |
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