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00Gambit
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.07.14 00:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
Everyday I check the eve-kill site and click on 5+bil and there are so many freighters being killed, many of them jump freighters and I just wanted to ask how they are doing it?
I just don't get how it's possible to kill a jump freighter when they can just jump and land right on 0km on the station and they could just dock if they get shot anyway... |
Liam Inkuras
Top Belt Heroes
1159
|
Posted - 2014.07.14 00:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
Bumps on stations with tiny docking radii when the jump in, or bumping them off a kickout when they undock. Or, if the cyno pilot is bad, the freighter spawns inside the station model and fly out before the freighter pilot reacts. I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone |
Lugia3
Intentionally Dense Easily Excited
1020
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Posted - 2014.07.14 01:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
They're stupid. "CCP Dolan is full of ****." - CCP Bettik |
MonkeyMagic Thiesant
Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking
73
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Posted - 2014.07.14 12:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
Aside from cyno derps or mistakes at kickout stations, there's also some groups actively hunt them. 100mn stabbers sit cloaked off a station, when the ship jumps in the bumper has quite a few seconds advantage before the JF loads grid, then some more before session timer allows it to dock.
See Ignoitton for an example..... |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
1208
|
Posted - 2014.07.14 13:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
JFs are vulnerable in lowsec when they have to make that single stargate jump to highsec.
They need to undock and warp to the highsec gate.
When they start aligning to the gate, they can be bumped out of docking range and murdered.
Insta-undocks don't help them either, because it's easy to quickly probe out their landing point and jump on them while they're still aligning to the gate a few thousand clicks from the station. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
2286
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Posted - 2014.07.14 15:16:00 -
[6] - Quote
As a pilot with a JF alt in Push I can say you generally have to be extra stupid or extra unlucky to lose a JF in LS.
Luckily in EVE it is shown time and again that plenty of both types exist. |
Tengu Grib
Simple Inc Simple Group
222
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Posted - 2014.07.14 16:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
I don't fly JF's so I've never tried this, but I've thought about it, is it possible to light the cyno right on a gate and have the freighter jump directly into HS? Tengu Grib > I agree. The distinct lack of quality spaceships makes RL the worst space sim ever. SolidX > i'm an alt IRL Guilty conscience? Buy a mining permit today. www.minerbumping.com |
Shahai Shintaro
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF
50
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Posted - 2014.07.14 22:04:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tengu Grib wrote:I don't fly JF's so I've never tried this, but I've thought about it, is it possible to light the cyno right on a gate and have the freighter jump directly into HS?
You land somewhere within 5k of the cyno so there's a good chance you are outside the gate range. Also if you jump into the gate you will be flying off to God knows where |
Christopher Mabata
Dominion Tenebrarum Reverberation Project
16
|
Posted - 2014.07.14 22:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
100mn cap stable NOMEN can slam into a freighter like a semi truck and send it off the undock, at which point you just keep the bumps up until it is safely off the undock ( usually about 30kms in my book ). then tackle and web and let the guns do the rest of the talking.
Sometimes in low sec you have to think like your in high sec in regards to station games. except you wont get CONCORD intervention just some pesky station guns. ( which barely hurt most well tanked ships ) Is it bad if your friend says "that was a Metaphor" and you say "Meta 4? Get Tech II or faction" ?I love the sound of silent explosions in Space.-á |
Christopher Mabata
Dominion Tenebrarum Reverberation Project
16
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Posted - 2014.07.14 22:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tengu Grib wrote:I don't fly JF's so I've never tried this, but I've thought about it, is it possible to light the cyno right on a gate and have the freighter jump directly into HS?
You land within 10kms of the cyno so theres a decent chance you will land off gate and be bumped, plus since cynos show up on the overview anyone who sees on lit on a gate and then D-scans a Jumpfreighter in that area is going in for the kill. Is it bad if your friend says "that was a Metaphor" and you say "Meta 4? Get Tech II or faction" ?I love the sound of silent explosions in Space.-á |
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Christopher Mabata
Dominion Tenebrarum Reverberation Project
16
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Posted - 2014.07.14 22:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
Shahai Shintaro wrote:Tengu Grib wrote:I don't fly JF's so I've never tried this, but I've thought about it, is it possible to light the cyno right on a gate and have the freighter jump directly into HS? You land somewhere within 5k of the cyno so there's a good chance you are outside the gate range. Also if you jump into the gate you will be flying off to God knows where
10kms, i made that mistake with my Nidhogger once and ended up bumping off station by like 60kms Thank god local was empty because i had time to align and warp to my safe spot and back before anyone entered local Is it bad if your friend says "that was a Metaphor" and you say "Meta 4? Get Tech II or faction" ?I love the sound of silent explosions in Space.-á |
Tengu Grib
Simple Inc Simple Group
223
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Posted - 2014.07.15 01:06:00 -
[12] - Quote
So the answer then is yes, but you'd better offer a pretty sweet sacrifice to the Jump Drive gods before hitting jump. I'll never do that. Thanks guys! Tengu Grib > I agree. The distinct lack of quality spaceships makes RL the worst space sim ever. SolidX > i'm an alt IRL Guilty conscience? Buy a mining permit today. www.minerbumping.com |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
2289
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 03:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
Christopher Mabata wrote:Shahai Shintaro wrote:Tengu Grib wrote:I don't fly JF's so I've never tried this, but I've thought about it, is it possible to light the cyno right on a gate and have the freighter jump directly into HS? You land somewhere within 5k of the cyno so there's a good chance you are outside the gate range. Also if you jump into the gate you will be flying off to God knows where 10kms, i made that mistake with my Nidhogger once and ended up bumping off station by like 60kms Thank god local was empty because i had time to align and warp to my safe spot and back before anyone entered local
Sadly it is actually 5km. |
00Gambit
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.07.15 05:15:00 -
[14] - Quote
So they're either getting killed when they jump into lowsec on the gate or they're getting killed when they undock and then click warp. Obviously they don't have the reactions to click the dock button when they see a stabber heading at 8km/s towards them... |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
2289
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 14:30:00 -
[15] - Quote
00Gambit wrote:So they're either getting killed when they jump into lowsec on the gate or they're getting killed when they undock and then click warp. Obviously they don't have the reactions to click the dock button when they see a stabber heading at 8km/s towards them...
Umm, sure. Go with that. |
Estella Osoka
Deep Void Merc Syndicate
413
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 15:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
Station selection is important when jumping a JF into lowsec. Stations with itty bitty docking rings are not a good choice. |
Tengu Grib
Simple Inc Simple Group
225
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 17:17:00 -
[17] - Quote
00Gambit wrote:So they're either getting killed when they jump into lowsec on the gate or they're getting killed when they undock and then click warp. Obviously they don't have the reactions to click the dock button when they see a stabber heading at 8km/s towards them...
Often cap pilots see the stabber coming, and panic, then start spamming the dock button. The moment they hit it, they can be targeted, but you still have the redock delay. It's not long, but if the bump hits and pushes you far enough, you could easily be out of docking range before the timer expires. It's obviously worse for some station types based on their docking radius and how it lines up with the undock, but the stations that are bad for it are where most of them die. Tengu Grib > I agree. The distinct lack of quality spaceships makes RL the worst space sim ever. SolidX > i'm an alt IRL Guilty conscience? Buy a mining permit today. www.minerbumping.com |
Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
246
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 18:04:00 -
[18] - Quote
The JFs that are getting killed are either 1. stupid, 2. taking big risks, 3. horribly unlucky
Even in ignoitton with a good cyno you can jump, right click out gate & select jump, if someone decloaks ctrl+spacebar and dock. If they are uncloaked just start spamming dock as soon as you land on station.
At times your JF might get camped in station while the stabbers and nomens try and bump you off, but you just leave the toon docked and logged in all night and go catch some sleep. BLFOX is currently recruiting |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
1279
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 18:07:00 -
[19] - Quote
Tengu Grib wrote:00Gambit wrote:So they're either getting killed when they jump into lowsec on the gate or they're getting killed when they undock and then click warp. Obviously they don't have the reactions to click the dock button when they see a stabber heading at 8km/s towards them... Often cap pilots see the stabber coming, and panic, then start spamming the dock button. The moment they hit it, they can be targeted, but you still have the redock delay. It's not long, but if the bump hits and pushes you far enough, you could easily be out of docking range before the timer expires. It's obviously worse for some station types based on their docking radius and how it lines up with the undock, but the stations that are bad for it are where most of them die. The redock delay, aka the session change timer, lasts 10s from undock.
However, you're invulnerable for 30 seconds after undock, if you do nothing else except ctrl-space stop your jf.
So one possible mistake is to try to warp immediately after you undock, yes.
Another mistake would be to 'warp' instead of 'aligning' first. Because if you see a bumper, you can dock while aligning, but you would have to cancel warp first in order to dock if you gave the warp command (hope it's clear lol).
If you undock from a 'good' station, ctrl-space, wait 15-20s, then align to the highsec gate, I assume you should be able to immediately redock if you spot a bumper. Can someone confirm this? I plan to buy a jf myself sometime in the future... :) EVE Online: Death-o-meter |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
1279
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 18:13:00 -
[20] - Quote
Thanatos Marathon wrote:The JFs that are getting killed are either 1. stupid, 2. taking big risks, 3. horribly unlucky
Even in ignoitton with a good cyno you can jump, right click out gate & select jump, if someone decloaks ctrl+spacebar and dock. If they are uncloaked just start spamming dock as soon as you land on station.
At times your JF might get camped in station while the stabbers and nomens try and bump you off, but you just leave the toon docked and logged in all night and go catch some sleep. LMAO my CEO is an awesome troll (see bolded part). :) EVE Online: Death-o-meter |
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Tengu Grib
Simple Inc Simple Group
225
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Posted - 2014.07.15 18:15:00 -
[21] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Tengu Grib wrote:00Gambit wrote:So they're either getting killed when they jump into lowsec on the gate or they're getting killed when they undock and then click warp. Obviously they don't have the reactions to click the dock button when they see a stabber heading at 8km/s towards them... Often cap pilots see the stabber coming, and panic, then start spamming the dock button. The moment they hit it, they can be targeted, but you still have the redock delay. It's not long, but if the bump hits and pushes you far enough, you could easily be out of docking range before the timer expires. It's obviously worse for some station types based on their docking radius and how it lines up with the undock, but the stations that are bad for it are where most of them die. The redock delay, aka the session change timer, lasts 10s from undock. However, you're invulnerable for 30 seconds after undock, if you do nothing else except ctrl-space stop your jf. So one possible mistake is to try to warp immediately after you undock, yes. Another mistake would be to 'warp' instead of 'aligning' first. Because if you see a bumper, you can dock while aligning, but you would have to cancel warp first in order to dock if you gave the warp command (hope it's clear lol). If you undock from a 'good' station, ctrl-space, wait 15-20s, then align to the highsec gate, I assume you should be able to immediately redock if you spot a bumper. Can someone confirm this? I plan to buy a jf myself sometime in the future... :)
That's how I used to do it with my carrier, so I assume JF would work pretty much the same. CRTL+Space is critical.
Tengu Grib > I agree. The distinct lack of quality spaceships makes RL the worst space sim ever. SolidX > i'm an alt IRL Guilty conscience? Buy a mining permit today. www.minerbumping.com |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
2289
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 18:20:00 -
[22] - Quote
As someone with a JF alt who hauls for Push (most of the time push's JF rates are better than the other guys BTW, shameless plug) I have lit a lot of cynos. I've jumped in and out of almost every station model in EVE, and even systems without stations. Some are easy. Others are downright scary. But given all of that I've concluded that a JF pilot pretty much has to be very stupid or very unlucky to lose one in LS. |
Tengu Grib
Simple Inc Simple Group
225
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Posted - 2014.07.15 18:28:00 -
[23] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:As someone with a JF alt who hauls for Push (most of the time push's JF rates are better than the other guys BTW, shameless plug) I have lit a lot of cynos. I've jumped in and out of almost every station model in EVE, and even systems without stations. Some are easy. Others are downright scary. But given all of that I've concluded that a JF pilot pretty much has to be very stupid or very unlucky to lose one in LS.
Often both at the same time. You can be stupid for months and just not get caught. Tengu Grib > I agree. The distinct lack of quality spaceships makes RL the worst space sim ever. SolidX > i'm an alt IRL Guilty conscience? Buy a mining permit today. www.minerbumping.com |
Sheri Angela
14
|
Posted - 2014.07.19 04:37:00 -
[24] - Quote
Most folks get rushed trying to get the jump run done and end up making careless mistakes.
There is however just plain bad luck with station bouncing you off at warp 9 despite your best efforts to place the cyno in the perfect spot. Good idea to jump when system is empty and have another cyno pilot in range so if you do bounce one saving grace might be enough time for cap to recharge and jump to alt cyno. Same applies if somebody is trying to bump you off a low sec station or your traversing from low to high by gate and find unwanted pew powers trying to grind on your leg. TIDI = Increasing profit while decreasing service level to the customer disguised a nicely marketed benefit. What would Amazon have done here. |
Tengu Grib
Simple Inc Simple Group
226
|
Posted - 2014.07.19 06:37:00 -
[25] - Quote
Dat wording. Lol. Love it. Tengu Grib > I agree. The distinct lack of quality spaceships makes RL the worst space sim ever. SolidX > i'm an alt IRL Guilty conscience? Buy a mining permit today. www.minerbumping.com |
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising The Bastion
1380
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 03:38:00 -
[26] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:As someone with a JF alt who hauls for Push (most of the time push's JF rates are better than the other guys BTW, shameless plug) I have lit a lot of cynos. I've jumped in and out of almost every station model in EVE, and even systems without stations. Some are easy. Others are downright scary. But given all of that I've concluded that a JF pilot pretty much has to be very stupid or very unlucky to lose one in LS.
IGÇÖm with Derath Ellecon here. IGÇÖve run freighters and jump freighters without loss for quite some time now, despite being rather stupid myself, living in nullsec, and almost constant being under wardecs from opportunistic hisec gangs.
The key, as far as I am concerned, is care and preparation. Where you have a choice, you should choose the station / outpost so as to provide the greatest docking zone buffer. Cyno-dood location can also be very important, absolutely critical in some station types. Putting a jump off until a system has quietened down a little is often advisable. More recently zerodock bookmarks have become important GǪ freighters can take an awful long time to cover the km or two between the warp landing point and the docking perimeter. Also more recently, I have taken to regularly swapping fittings (nanos and stabs v. bulkheads or cargo expanders) to accommodate circumstances GǪ and at all times carrying a small freight container with alternative fitting modules (along with another container with a disassembled cheetah for other emergency uses). IGÇÖve had a few nasty structure bumps or other ship bumps, during large coalition deployment jumps, but have never had someone actually bump me out of the docking zone. I watch my GÇÿspeedoGÇÖ closely and spam the dock button if it looks like I might be structure or ship bumped. Preparation work, and a webber (3 x faction webs on raiper or huginn), for all JF POS jumps GǪ a pair of bookmarks allowing instawarp into POS by warping from one location to the other at-100km. I use instawarps mainly in places like Jita to reduce the likelihood of being widely cargo-scanned, but an instawarping freighter/JF usually still gives enough time for a dedicated and lucky cargo scanner on the undock. I play little mindgames when I have potentially gankable load values GǪ like yesterday, undocking from jita 4 4, instawarping away, and then docking up in a different station to go afk the rest of the day and to resume my actual move 6+ hours later. I use a webber alt when I am still worried about my gank potential, and a non-alliance alt for all hisec travel when we are under wardec.
Problems IGÇÖve had (and survived):
- A huge bump during our recent Syndicate deployment, with hostile neuts at the station. Thankfully lots and lots of carriers and dreads right there being watchful as my nomad crawled back towards the docking perimeter GǪ and a couple of carrier guys swapped to fast ships they were carrying and helped with some bumpage.
- Jumping to the wrong cyno. More embarrassing than anything else. He was well located on the station, just in the dead opposite direction to what I had intended.
- Hitting the dock button, going afk, and returning an hour later to find my JF still sitting there outside the lowsec station. Since then I always, always, always wait the few extra seconds to confirm that docking has actually occurred.
- Warping to a station and finding myself a couple km from the docking perimeter.
- GÇÿLandingGÇÖ is a random location in destination system because (I think) my cyno finished during my jump. I have also heard of people GÇÿlandingGÇÖ in other systems.
- Undocking JF into a hostile station-camp gang. Just plain ******** but easy enough to dock-up again, just a little shaken.
I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. Our pirate epic arc completion packages really are very good: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12973&find=unread |
Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
252
|
Posted - 2014.07.24 07:17:00 -
[27] - Quote
Isn't it possible to pop the cyno ship while the jump is in progress, causing the JF to land at a random spot in the system? |
Major Trant
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
862
|
Posted - 2014.07.24 12:33:00 -
[28] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:Isn't it possible to pop the cyno ship while the jump is in progress, causing the JF to land at a random spot in the system? Yes CTRL-Q - Minmatar FW - Low Sec PvP - Euro TZ - New Player Friendly Contact: Major Trant In game channel: FeO Public Recruitment thread: CTRL-Q |
Valleria Darkmoon
Convicts and Savages Shadow Cartel
285
|
Posted - 2014.07.28 04:48:00 -
[29] - Quote
Christopher Mabata wrote:100mn cap stable NOMEN can slam into a freighter like a semi truck and send it off the undock, at which point you just keep the bumps up until it is safely off the undock ( usually about 30kms in my book ). then tackle and web and let the guns do the rest of the talking.
Sometimes in low sec you have to think like your in high sec in regards to station games. except you wont get CONCORD intervention just some pesky station guns. ( which barely hurt most well tanked ships ) 30 km off the undock? That's way farther than you need to go. These are freighters they have no Mids and so can't fit a prop mod and travel at ~100 m/s at the best of times. 5 km off the undock should be plenty, even if you web it only once and stay out of the way to let it try to get back you still have almost a full minute to kill it. Getting people to help kill one shouldn't be a challenge either so you should easily kill it by then. More bumps and more webs and it should easily get stuck out that far. This is why people don't cyno to the gate in the first place, being 5 km away from the gate is potentially a death sentence.
Both the JFs I've killed have been as a result of a poor cyno pilot hugging a station a little too hard or picking a station that doesn't have a cyno safe docking ring. Often some of the mining outpost stations that are built out of gigantic asteroids have extremely generous docking rings and are often safest, though there are others as well.
If you're ever in doubt undock two ships from a station have one stop on the undock and the other one fly out until you are 10 km from the ship on the undock, now check the station, are you still at zero? If yes, you can fly back in 5 km and light cyno reasonably safely. If no, you are risking a bounce or landing out of the docking ring if you cyno where you are. The farther you can get from the ship on the undock before the station stops being at 0 the safer it will be to light a cyno there because you have to remember the cap ship coming in might be big enough to bounce still due to it's size if it spawns as close as possible to the station, so you want some cushion to work with. Reality has an almost infinite capacity to resist oversimplification. |
Moonlit Raid
State War Academy Caldari State
195
|
Posted - 2014.07.28 05:34:00 -
[30] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:JFs are vulnerable in lowsec when they have to make that single stargate jump to highsec.
They need to undock and warp to the highsec gate.
When they start aligning to the gate, they can be bumped out of docking range and murdered.
Insta-undocks don't help them either, because it's easy to quickly probe out their landing point and jump on them while they're still aligning to the gate a few thousand clicks from the station. Why don't they light a cyno on top of the high sec gate, jump to cyno, jump to high. If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough. |
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