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Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
1565
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Posted - 2014.08.05 23:11:45 -
[61] - Quote
As a corp CEO a wardec is mighty usefull. It indicates very well who can deal with such hostilities and adapt, and who will go idle with apathy when put under video game pressure. It is also a good way to keep vets from growing too lenient with their security measures and travel fittings, and one hell of an incentive to train up for covert transport ships. The business end of the game requires some cunning too, marketplaces are deadly when there's a gang war going on!
There's a funny thing going on with wardecs (or cloaky campers for that matter). The victim could be having a far better time if he adapted his playstyle, and improved his security measures each war. For instance, we base in lowsec so we treat wardeccers with a bit of disdain, while we have to swallow a hard nut when one of us gets his ass kicked at the mall. We have to deliberately form up and go hi hisec to fight these wars. Hence only grudge-type wars (as opposed to random hub ganking) truly impacts our fun. A dec is only a formality in such wars and rarely even happen.
On the flipside we live in a dangerous environment, one that dictates a non-AFK mentality, and being a nice dude from time to time and handling a courier contract for your 2m SP friend who can't fly a Blockade runner. Or undocking your hero PVP ship when a ratter (with the decency of being in fleet-on comms) gets agressed. Conlict makes other people valuable. That's a cornerstone of the game, and hardly pointless. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
1727
|
Posted - 2014.08.06 01:27:19 -
[62] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Decs where the targets try to "deny me content" by staying docked resulted in me employing the same tactic; keeping the dec going and if I was particularly annoyed by the corp, I would stay logged in and docked even when I was not at the computer so they could never feel safe to play (and when they did get used to my presence and undocked to run a mission, I was right there to get them. :) ) I started doing this a while ago too. It seems like at the point where you have sufficient income that war costs are minimally limiting for you then the default course of action for a target that refuses to undock for a week is to keep the war going for longer.
The typical end result of members remaining docked up for multiple weeks is corps dropping out of alliance and players dropping out of corp, which is a win. |
Esme Moya Mencken
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
4
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Posted - 2014.08.06 01:59:40 -
[63] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Decs where the targets try to "deny me content" by staying docked resulted in me employing the same tactic; keeping the dec going and if I was particularly annoyed by the corp, I would stay logged in and docked even when I was not at the computer so they could never feel safe to play (and when they did get used to my presence and undocked to run a mission, I was right there to get them. :) )
See, and if I were the target of such a war, I'd really enjoy dissolving and reforming corporation (and when you realized the tactic and decided to declare war again, I'd be right there...to dissolve and reform again. :) ) |
Wraymond Arji
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
2
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Posted - 2014.09.22 21:29:00 -
[64] - Quote
from the start, let me admit flat out.. I didn't bother to read if anyone else posted this or not, so no flaming. The wars may seem pointless to you, OP; but to the declaring party they serve a purpose to at least provide content. Therefore, ALL wars are of purpose and legit per game mechanics and CCP's design. EVE was never meant to be WOW in space. It's not even a game to be quite honest. It is an MMO sandbox for emergent experiences. The idea is that EVERYTHING is complicated and they have already over-simplified too many things to bring in customers instead of sticking true to form IMO, but that is the nature of it since CCP went public. Bottom line is that it is about overcoming challenges, not whining until the challenges are made easier to lower the bar to YOUR level. Step up YOUR game to meet the bar. |
Wraymond Arji
Chaotic Tranquility
16
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Posted - 2014.09.22 21:29:48 -
[65] - Quote
from the start, let me admit flat out.. I didn't bother to read if anyone else posted this or not, so no flaming. The wars may seem pointless to you, OP; but to the declaring party they serve a purpose to at least provide content. Therefore, ALL wars are of purpose and legit per game mechanics and CCP's design. EVE was never meant to be WOW in space. It's not even a game to be quite honest. It is an MMO sandbox for emergent experiences. The idea is that EVERYTHING is complicated and they have already over-simplified too many things to bring in customers instead of sticking true to form IMO, but that is the nature of it since CCP went public. Bottom line is that it is about overcoming challenges, not whining until the challenges are made easier to lower the bar to YOUR level. Step up YOUR game to meet the bar.
EDIT: If you can't do that on your own, it is designed to be where you then do that by bringing friends. Either way, there are plenty of ways to do just about anything in EVE. The most annoying thing I keep coming across is the widespread fear of doing anything differently, or trying new things. NOTHING in this game is linear and multiple alternate paths can all lead to the same outcome. Please stop begging that things get nerfed just because a small percentage can't figure out one of the multiple ways to get past a challenge. |
Milan Nantucket
New Eden Misfits
198
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Posted - 2014.09.23 09:31:06 -
[66] - Quote
Thorvade wrote:Ok establishing from the start that I support High sec wars and combat, IF they have a true purpose. I believe they make the game dynamic and give choices meaning and danger.
I do NOT support repetitive and pointless wars that hinder high sec corps from being able to play the game. If I mission and mine that is my choice. Getting ganked randomly is bad enough, but thats somewhat realistic. Cops are rarely around for muggings and murders. But being forced to NOT be able to play a game that we pay for is pretty ridiculous in the long run. I enjoy the space themes, I enjoy piloting spaceships, I enjoy many of the facets that EVE has to offer. But I do not enjoy sitting in a station spinning waiting for countdown timers to end. Because thats what happens mostly. Thats the best way to get war decs to end and thats BS. Paying off pirates who are harrasing you seems counter intuitive at best.
If a war has a true purpose, like territory (but thats nullsec), monetary gain (griefing for money), or even because you were slighted.
When you are repeatedly decced by 2 man corps, 1 man corps running multiple accounts, etc etc. This is nothing more than people who are looking for free kills against the squishiest targets they can find, and that wont shoot back.
Its these wars that break high sec corps, scare off new players, and generally give way to nothing more than bullying and people who get their kicks from fighting things that cant shoot back.
This is a thread for specifically and useful arguments.
And yes I might be a carebear in EVE, but Ive served in actual combat in real life so I dont want to hear insults etc etc.
Im tired of pointless posts. I also have served in real combat in two wars. You should know that wars never serve any real purpose to begin with. At least in Eve when you dont want to pvp in a pvp game you could just uninstall. If you just want to mine and be left alone then play Minecraft. It has unlimited rocks you can smash and collect.
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Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
814
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Posted - 2014.09.23 16:47:56 -
[67] - Quote
Shameless plug....
There is always the 4th option...
Drop corp, buy cheap PvP frigs, join Red vs Blue for the duration of the war and learn to fight a little.
One of my alliance leads from a long while ago made this suggestion when I was a noob and making the same complaint as the OP.
Some 6000+ kills later, I realized I enjoy the PvP aspect of eve.
A less shameless plug option... Drop corp and relocate. Eve's high sec is vast. Get out of the fommon caldari missioning grounds. You can find some great mission/mining hubs where even CODE does not tread that are still part of continous high sec. |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
174
|
Posted - 2014.09.24 00:32:34 -
[68] - Quote
Just drop and reform corp and brag over your 30-1 economic win. If you are too big to do that, and you still can't defend yourself against 1 man griefer corps, then you don't deserve to exist. |
Fret Thiesant
The Imperial LansDrahd LOADED-DICE
52
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Posted - 2014.09.27 20:56:08 -
[69] - Quote
Eh Hi-Sec war decs.....really not fun.
First thing is to never fight on station. No reason too. You won't be breaking the tanks of the people you are fighting in under a minute realistically. You've not the combat skills for it. So make use of your insta!
Second thing is to pick a ship to fly in combat. As a mining corp you really should just go with Vexors. You should have good shield and drone skills already. No fuss topping them off and getting to be able to fly the mid size Gal drone boats.
So there you go. Make a little Vexor fleet (6-10) and don't fight off of station. Don't fight if you're lacking numbers. Don't fight on station!!! Don't let your fleet get kited out when you're off station (1-2 man corp will either set up for absolute brick tank for station games or kiting fit).
Far as not fighting there's no real place in Eve people will not be trying to blow you up, I would suggest if you are absolutely opposed to it, join one of the Null power blocs indy corps. Make sure they base fairly deep in. Don't show up with a lot of assets in case it is a scam.
Luck |
Atomeon
The Scope Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2014.09.27 21:38:09 -
[70] - Quote
Hmm, lets see the War Dec from a funny side.
The 2 man Corp pays to Concord to start a war. That is logical, war is money. The fun part is: you pay the double at Concord to make them KOS from concord. This could be over and over and each one of Corps doubles the amount to insane amounts.
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Jegrey Dozer
Ruatha Holdings
38
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Posted - 2014.09.28 11:42:18 -
[71] - Quote
There already exists a way to completely dodge a wardec.
A solution that many of OP's would-be gankers and wardeccers and their ilk have vehemently tried to have CCP brand as an exploit so that it can not be practiced.
It involves creating a password protected channel exclusive to corp members so that everyone stays in contact, followed by every member dropping corp. Once the war is over, everyone rejoins the corp.
There is no reason why all members can not conduct their normal EvE activities while in an NPC corp.
The only reason I could imagine High Sec players can complain about wars is if they are completely unimaginative about what their options are.
To the OP:
Do not even begin to blame the low retention rate of new players because of wars in High Sec. That is bombastic and very wrong. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1812
|
Posted - 2014.09.29 09:56:36 -
[72] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:Xuixien wrote:Decs where the targets try to "deny me content" by staying docked resulted in me employing the same tactic; keeping the dec going and if I was particularly annoyed by the corp, I would stay logged in and docked even when I was not at the computer so they could never feel safe to play (and when they did get used to my presence and undocked to run a mission, I was right there to get them. :) ) I started doing this a while ago too. It seems like at the point where you have sufficient income that war costs are minimally limiting for you then the default course of action for a target that refuses to undock for a week is to keep the war going for longer. The typical end result of members remaining docked up for multiple weeks is corps dropping out of alliance and players dropping out of corp, which is a win.
Then just undock, get into cheap ships and FIGHT. Both sides get more fun than on the docked option. How hard is that to grasp.
We for example more than once stopped a war with targets that got our respect when they asked for a time so they would not collapse. But if you whine, make threads like this etc.. we shall never stop.
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!"
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1812
|
Posted - 2014.09.29 09:58:18 -
[73] - Quote
Jegrey Dozer wrote:
Do not even begin to blame the low retention rate of new players because of wars in High Sec. That is bombastic and very wrong.
True, most wardec groups do not wardec corps of new people. BEcause they usually are too small or flying too cheap stuff to be worth the effort.
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!"
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1812
|
Posted - 2014.09.29 10:00:01 -
[74] - Quote
Esme Moya Mencken wrote:An option that hasn't been named...
There is an under-appreciated and somewhat controversial (but also sort of wonderful) alternative for small corps/corps that don't mind a quick disbanding:
Dissolve your corporation. Reform it seconds later with the same name (etc.). It costs 50m ISK to declare war. It costs 1.6m ISK to form a corporation (+ whatever for renting an HQ, posting a recruiting ad , etc). If you don't mind the 20 minute hassle of re-establishing your corporation, it's a lovely and troll-y response to try-hards attempting to inflate their killboards.
The ISK piece of it is sort of icing anyway, right? The guys dec'ing highsec mining corps don't care really about the cost of the dec. They also don't care really about making carebears better players. Carebears who don't want to fight and aren't skilled to fight, thus, have this little disappearing-reappearing trick as an option...for now.
Dissolving corp and reforming under same name with same people CAN BE PETITIONED. Keep doing that... see what will happen someday.
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!"
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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1154
|
Posted - 2014.09.29 10:36:15 -
[75] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Esme Moya Mencken wrote:An option that hasn't been named...
There is an under-appreciated and somewhat controversial (but also sort of wonderful) alternative for small corps/corps that don't mind a quick disbanding:
Dissolve your corporation. Reform it seconds later with the same name (etc.). It costs 50m ISK to declare war. It costs 1.6m ISK to form a corporation (+ whatever for renting an HQ, posting a recruiting ad , etc). If you don't mind the 20 minute hassle of re-establishing your corporation, it's a lovely and troll-y response to try-hards attempting to inflate their killboards.
The ISK piece of it is sort of icing anyway, right? The guys dec'ing highsec mining corps don't care really about the cost of the dec. They also don't care really about making carebears better players. Carebears who don't want to fight and aren't skilled to fight, thus, have this little disappearing-reappearing trick as an option...for now. Dissolving corp and reforming under same name with same people CAN BE PETITIONED. Keep doing that... see what will happen someday.
AFAIK, CCPs response to all things high sec war is, if the mechanics allow you to avoid a war, then its ok. Just as if the mechanics allow you to waste your time decing people who dont have 2 rifters to rub together, that is also ok. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1812
|
Posted - 2014.09.29 15:33:03 -
[76] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Esme Moya Mencken wrote:An option that hasn't been named...
There is an under-appreciated and somewhat controversial (but also sort of wonderful) alternative for small corps/corps that don't mind a quick disbanding:
Dissolve your corporation. Reform it seconds later with the same name (etc.). It costs 50m ISK to declare war. It costs 1.6m ISK to form a corporation (+ whatever for renting an HQ, posting a recruiting ad , etc). If you don't mind the 20 minute hassle of re-establishing your corporation, it's a lovely and troll-y response to try-hards attempting to inflate their killboards.
The ISK piece of it is sort of icing anyway, right? The guys dec'ing highsec mining corps don't care really about the cost of the dec. They also don't care really about making carebears better players. Carebears who don't want to fight and aren't skilled to fight, thus, have this little disappearing-reappearing trick as an option...for now. Dissolving corp and reforming under same name with same people CAN BE PETITIONED. Keep doing that... see what will happen someday. AFAIK, CCPs response to all things high sec war is, if the mechanics allow you to avoid a war, then its ok. Just as if the mechanics allow you to waste your time decing people who dont have 2 rifters to rub together, that is also ok.
Remakign the exact same name with the same members get you a warning at least . I know becuse my CEO of my first corp did that and got the warnign and was told to never do it again.
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!"
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Zylithi
Immortalis Fratres Vacui Legio immortales CXCI
39
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Posted - 2014.10.01 05:51:16 -
[77] - Quote
I used to run one of these one man wardec wonder outfits, and I can tell you a thing or two.
You need to position your corp as one who can defend itself. People choose their risk appropriately. If you look like hardasses, they won't bother. If you look squishy, people will look deeper. By flying squishy ships, utterly failing other wars, and other things, people will dog pile on you really quickly. Some dumbass in an old corp of mine completely botched a Paladin fit and got the thing killed, the kill mail got spread around and suddenly we had 7 wars (900 vs. 80). Don't be that person.
If your corp is purely industrial, there is literally nothing wrong that that! However, to survive as a corp, you need to participate in the environment, and not rag on about it. You guys are industrial, you should easily be able to afford mercs. They usually come cheap, 500mil is normally the going rate, but may be higher depending on the target. If your corp literally cannot afford that price, even if each of you contributes a little, it may be wise to consider disbanding. 10 guys missioning for one hour can make that isk.
Oh, and stay out of the "merc contracts" channel unless you're looking for a null/lowsec contract. They all talk to each other. I once asked one of those corps for help and they decked us just because we talked to them.
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1812
|
Posted - 2014.10.01 16:19:59 -
[78] - Quote
Zylithi wrote: Oh, and stay out of the "merc contracts" channel unless you're looking for a null/lowsec contract. They all talk to each other. I once asked one of those corps for help and they decked us just because we talked to them.
Complete lies. Most of our work is exactly assistign against other wars, including other merc groups. I do not think any of the relevent groups have not yet been wardecced by us in contracts.
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!"
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Badman Lasermouse
Run and Gun Mercenary Corps
18
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Posted - 2014.10.02 15:03:23 -
[79] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Zylithi wrote: Oh, and stay out of the "merc contracts" channel unless you're looking for a null/lowsec contract. They all talk to each other. I once asked one of those corps for help and they decked us just because we talked to them.
Complete lies. Most of our work is exactly assistign against other wars, including other merc groups. I do not think any of the relevent groups have not yet been wardecced by us in contracts.
The Merc contracts channel is legitimate. The Mercenary Corporations may talk to each other, but they also relentlessly war dec each other. If you want to hire someone, dont go in there crying about how your Orca got ganked. Find a Diplomat for a reputable group, and private convo them.
Badman |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
1727
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Posted - 2014.10.02 23:12:09 -
[80] - Quote
People requesting mercs in Merc Contracts only have problems if they want something unreasonable or aren't serious to begin with. Also people in the same channel are obviouslygoing to communicate with each other some of the time, that does not mean they won't take contracts against each other and approach those contracts in a professional manner. |
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Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
145
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Posted - 2014.10.15 21:46:27 -
[81] - Quote
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:If it cannot defend itself against a singular pilot, the only thing that's pointless is the existance of that corporation.
Not a matter of defending ones self when the target doesnt undock during your peak time but then when people log off the target undocks for an easy kill, which if he does come to attack he probably has an army of logi.
Been there, done that, kept training my massive hoard of skills
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
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Cattegirn
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
8
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Posted - 2014.10.17 05:54:02 -
[82] - Quote
Eve as a PVE game isn't that great, but if you want to play it like X you could check the lore. I thought the idea was that those big (i.e., NPC) corps were the ones responsible for the existence of high-security, and their protective militia is called Concord. You work for them, you get their protection, and you pay their tax rate. For 10% of your bounties (and just bounties...) you get the T1000 or that shape changing ****** from T4 manifesting out of the vacuum for a guaranteed kill of your aggressor. That's not a bad ******* deal.
If the 10% tax rate the NPC massives offer is too high, and you want to go it on your own, you have to become a small state, and field your own. They pay for it, so if you aren't going to be in their club you don't get the protection.
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Trey Kutoi
Nyarlthotep Holdings Ltd.
5
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Posted - 2014.10.23 17:04:36 -
[83] - Quote
If the war is pointless, why not just warp away? without a point, its not like it can stop you. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
494
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 18:22:26 -
[84] - Quote
The first thing you have to do is become hard to pin down as a corp, do not stay in one area of hisec or even in hisec itself, have operations in low sec and NPC 0.0, try to link up with another corp that has a WH and support them for use of their hole at times. Make it so that the hisec war deccer can not sit there in a station and camp you there, make him spend his time chasing you are round Eve or contemplating whether he should follow you into dangerous areas of space where his RR can be shot before it even has an impact.
I have had some great fun over the years, one example is when moving a guy into Cloud Ring, I noted a guy setup to gate camp, he had a neutral alt in the hisec system and was warping a Myrmidon to the gate when people came to the lowsec gate. So I got my corp mate to be to keep warping to the gate than back to the station, after five goes of this the guy logged off in disgust. another time being chased in NPC Delve by one loud mouthed idiot, I made them chase me for hours by setting up safes that looked like I was in a belt from the use of the D-Scan, then when he got bored of that after a couple of hours and brought in a prober, I then used the cloak . The key thing is that you have to get your players to think on how they play the game during a war dec, treat it as an annoy them more then you. Of course there are some who will stay at it and those you will just have to make it not worth their while by operating in space they do not dare go near.
So what about missions in NPC 0.0 or low sec, what about low-sec ninja mining, what about doing some low sec and 0.0 exploration, what about doing some WH sites. While doing this make sure that you have people logged on with alts that watch what he does, get a feel for his actions, even lose a couple of ships at the start, find out what they do, then set your trap, loggoffski's are your best bet, also use ECM and snsor dampening boats and long ponting and web ships to keep him immobile when you do this, do all what I say and you will not be bothered.
It is frustrating and yes it does drive away players, I for one got fed up being cloaky BLOP's dropped for 6 months in Stain, however I had made a rod for my own back in that I was the bait for them to camp while others were in other systems doing their things, that was screwed when someone told the camper that and he upped his game, but here is the rub, sit back and work out what you can do and their parameters then act accordingly and do not be a static target unless you want to be.
Good luck and thanks for your service.
Ella's Snack bar
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Heather Austrene
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.10.24 09:06:29 -
[85] - Quote
My opinion. Many if not most wardeccers prey on noob corps. I think wars make a lot of players get frustrated and quit the game. In my short time playing the two corps I have joined got wardecced, everyone stopped playing, and I was left the choice of trying to fight by myself with no experience or assistance or quit the corp or stop playing the game. If the wardec wasn't something that would last indefinitely, I probably would have stayed and road it out, but the last corp is still wardecced after several weeks.
I do not think that highsec wars should be eliminated, but I think they should be nerfed. Right now wardecs are cheap and easy to declare. There is almost no negative to the aggressor at all when wardeccing a carebear corp. One of the corps that declared war on us has 150 simultaneous wars at the same time. I know this is a game, but in the real world declaring war has major consequences political and economic, perhaps there could be a temporary sec status loss to the corp for each war they declare, and/or the cost of declaring to increase for each additional simultaneous war. And also cost progressively more for each additional week the war is extended. This way a corp would have to be a little choosy in who they declare war on rather than just declaring war on everybody. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1829
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Posted - 2014.10.24 11:29:32 -
[86] - Quote
Heather Austrene wrote:My opinion. Many if not most wardeccers prey on noob corps. I think wars make a lot of players get frustrated and quit the game. In my short time playing the two corps I have joined got wardecced, everyone stopped playing, and I was left the choice of trying to fight by myself with no experience or assistance or quit the corp or stop playing the game. If the wardec wasn't something that would last indefinitely, I probably would have stayed and road it out, but the last corp is still wardecced after several weeks.
I do not think that highsec wars should be eliminated, but I think they should be nerfed. Right now wardecs are cheap and easy to declare. There is almost no negative to the aggressor at all when wardeccing a carebear corp. One of the corps that declared war on us has 150 simultaneous wars at the same time. I know this is a game, but in the real world declaring war has major consequences political and economic, perhaps there could be a temporary sec status loss to the corp for each war they declare, and/or the cost of declaring to increase for each additional simultaneous war. And also cost progressively more for each additional week the war is extended. This way a corp would have to be a little choosy in who they declare war on rather than just declaring war on everybody.
cheap? We spend SEVERAL BILLIONS per week. And most of the targets just disband. If somethign is easy.. is to AVOID the wardec.
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!"
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
494
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Posted - 2014.10.24 12:31:21 -
[87] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Heather Austrene wrote:My opinion. Many if not most wardeccers prey on noob corps. I think wars make a lot of players get frustrated and quit the game. In my short time playing the two corps I have joined got wardecced, everyone stopped playing, and I was left the choice of trying to fight by myself with no experience or assistance or quit the corp or stop playing the game. If the wardec wasn't something that would last indefinitely, I probably would have stayed and road it out, but the last corp is still wardecced after several weeks.
I do not think that highsec wars should be eliminated, but I think they should be nerfed. Right now wardecs are cheap and easy to declare. There is almost no negative to the aggressor at all when wardeccing a carebear corp. One of the corps that declared war on us has 150 simultaneous wars at the same time. I know this is a game, but in the real world declaring war has major consequences political and economic, perhaps there could be a temporary sec status loss to the corp for each war they declare, and/or the cost of declaring to increase for each additional simultaneous war. And also cost progressively more for each additional week the war is extended. This way a corp would have to be a little choosy in who they declare war on rather than just declaring war on everybody. cheap? We spend SEVERAL BILLIONS per week. And most of the targets just disband. If somethign is easy.. is to AVOID the wardec.
Perhaps the issue is more to do with your target selection..
Ella's Snack bar
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Heather Austrene
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2014.10.24 14:37:47 -
[88] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:cheap? We spend SEVERAL BILLIONS per week. And most of the targets just disband. If somethign is easy.. is to AVOID the wardec.
If anything this proves my point, if you are spending billions in war decs you are just spam deccing to many people. Making it costlier to conduct large numbers of concurrent wars would force you to select particularly large or stupid corps, or corps you know might put up a fight rather than disbanding.
But you are right, although unpleasant and frustrating, it is easy to avoid war decs. Perhaps along with my suggested nerf, a change could be made that you can't avoid being a war target by dropping out of corp. That instead you remain a vaild war target until the week runs out no matter what corp you run to. This would help prevent corps disintegrating due to war weariness as well.
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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
1733
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Posted - 2014.10.24 17:15:54 -
[89] - Quote
Heather Austrene wrote:If anything this proves my point, if you are spending billions in war decs you are just spam deccing to many people. Making it costlier to conduct large numbers of concurrent wars would force you to select particularly large or stupid corps, or corps you know might put up a fight rather than disbanding.
You might think so at a glance, but it's really not the case.
People already do select particularly large, stupid corps and corps they expect might put up a fight, those are the exact selection criteria that people use when declaring wars (unless they have a more specific reason obviously). However the current state of highsec is such that even when picking targets based on those critera you need to declare war on as many of those groups that you can reasonably afford to just to provide targets.
Changes made to the war system have had a strange affect. The massive increase in the base cost of wars totally eliminated small, unskilled wardec groups, so there aren't "low level" aggressors anymore. This means corps don't get wardecced at all until they reach a critical mass where they become a target for more experienced, better funded people and subsequently have no freaking idea what to do about it. At the same time the ally system came about, which by serving as an advert for a free wars against the aggressor totally eliminated the use of wars by anyone who is not a dedicated PVP group. The result is highsec groups that don't exist specifically for highsec PVP have no exposure to PVP until the people they have to deal with areway beyond their skill and experience level, subsequently they don't consider it a normal, fun part of the game. So when wars happen they hide.
The lack of good targets makes running dedicated wardec corps an alliances extremely expensive, which again discourages start-ups, so people interested in highsec PVP join established groups, which makes those groups more powerful, which discourages highsec groups from fighting back, which makes them need to declare more wars in order to provide more targets.
It's a ecological problem, and it's self perpetuating. It's bad for everyone because it results in huge costs to us wardec outfits and it results in other highsec groups constantly being at war with one group or another. The solution is not "nerf wardecs" we've been nerfing wardecs and that's what lead us here. |
Toriessian
Helion Production Labs Independent Operators Consortium
336
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Posted - 2014.10.24 20:53:54 -
[90] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote: It's a ecological problem, and it's self perpetuating. It's bad for everyone because it results in huge costs to us wardec outfits and it results in other highsec groups constantly being at war with one group or another. The solution is not "nerf wardecs" we've been nerfing wardecs and that's what lead us here.
I'm gonna chime in with the view of one of the "other highsec groups" that is constantly at war with one group or another. You are totally correct with your view of the current ecosystem. My alliance has been pretty much constantly dec'd since we left null and moved to HS in August. I'm sure theres one reason or another in terms of in game motivation.
One piece of advice I keep seeing is that people should undock and fight back. Theres really no point to the Indy corp doing it in the majority of cases. My own alliances experience shows that. We've killed Rattlesnakes, pods, T3s, falcons. We're still perma-deccd. We can be seen putting a 12 domi blob with AHAC tackle, falcons, and logi support on the field, we still get dec'd. The monthly subcap losses my alliance takes don't come anywhere near putting us in danger. The losses we inflict wouldn't put any organized PvP group in any danger of collapsing either though. If anything undocking has encouraged more decs on us and if that is the consequence of fighting back,successfully or not, why would an Indy corp undock at all?
Theres no way for the newer Indy Corp to come out ahead whether they undock or not. Thats single biggest thing that needs to change IMO. Dedicated PVPers can celebrate hitting their goals in KMs, fun fights, etc. but if your goal is to get back to doing Indy work from HS the mechanics are not in your favor. I don't think a simple nerf or buff to any one thing fixes this. War dec mechanics need a redesign from the ground up.
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