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Avern
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2014.07.15 08:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi
So I have my sights set on making my fortune exploring and hacking with null sec in mind. This is extremely similar to "Hi Sec Exploration All in One" but his direction is a little different to mine and I don't want to Hi-Jack the thread.
looking around I found a loadout on battle clinic for a Tengu that specialized purely on escaping as fast as possble with its only defense on evasion or jamming, no offence or direct defense at all "safest null exploration (with explanation)" is its title. I like the idea of a ninja type style of play but the question is the route to being able to do this.
The thing is its 21 days for me to just fly a tengu and I have never done stealth/blockade running/hacking/exploring/probing or even being out out of concord territory so I get the feeling it would be a bad idea to learn in a T3 ship.
What do you guys recommend as stepping stones to get to that level ?
Thanks in advance Avern |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2122
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Posted - 2014.07.15 08:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
Something like this:
[Buzzard, prof sites easier on skills] Micro Auxiliary Power Core I Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Data Analyzer I Relic Analyzer I Cargo Scanner II Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Sisters Core Probe Launcher, Sisters Core Scanner Probe Covert Ops Cloaking Device II [empty high slot]
Small Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Or, if you're feeling cheap and don't mind getting blown up here and there, this will do:
[Heron, basic prof sites] Micro Auxiliary Power Core I Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Data Analyzer I Relic Analyzer I Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I Cargo Scanner II Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Prototype Cloaking Device I Core Probe Launcher I, Core Scanner Probe I Salvager I
[empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot]
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Anize Oramara
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
190
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Posted - 2014.07.15 08:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
cov ops frigates, or just normal scanning frigates and an empty clone as you can expect to get podded.
find wormholes in high or low either going to other wormholes or directly to null and use those as your entry/exit point bypassing gatecamps.
once you can do that you might find doing explo in covops frigs are better than a t3. you can still get caught in a t3 if you dont know 100% what you are doing and covops frigs are expendable.
pro tip: relic sites are waaay better than data but you always have a chance of nabbing a bill faction tower in data sites. |
Avern
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2014.07.15 08:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
Thanks for the responses
To clear things up a bit I'd rather spend more and have a bit more "cool factor" than spend less and feel like I'm on day 1 |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2122
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 08:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
Avern wrote:Thanks for the responses
To clear things up a bit I'd rather spend more and have a bit more "cool factor" than spend less and feel like I'm on day 1
Then go for the Buzzard. There really isn't anything else in the Caldari line before the Tengu. You could cross train into the Astero/Stratios but if you don't want to go that way, get into a solid Buzzard and just train to the Tengu.
By the by, I prefer the Loki for what you're describing. Tengu does work though.
Oh, and the Buzzard fit I'd aim for skill-wise is probably this:
[Buzzard, prof sites] Micro Auxiliary Power Core I Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Data Analyzer II Relic Analyzer II Cargo Scanner II Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I Medium Shield Extender II
Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Core Scanner Probe Covert Ops Cloaking Device II [empty high slot]
Small Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
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Avern
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2014.07.15 08:59:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cool, got plenty practice time for the buzzard fit, 2 days for buzzard, 16 days for Data Analyzer II.
Gives me time to burn through some heron fits getting killed :) |
Elly Alfarius
GALAXY ACADEMY GALAXY ALLIANCE
1
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Posted - 2014.07.15 09:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote:Avern wrote:Thanks for the responses
To clear things up a bit I'd rather spend more and have a bit more "cool factor" than spend less and feel like I'm on day 1 Then go for the Buzzard. There really isn't anything else in the Caldari line before the Tengu. You could cross train into the Astero/Stratios but if you don't want to go that way, get into a solid Buzzard and just train to the Tengu. By the by, I prefer the Loki for what you're describing. Tengu does work though. Oh, and the Buzzard fit I'd aim for skill-wise is probably this: [Buzzard, prof sites] Micro Auxiliary Power Core I Micro Auxiliary Power Core II Data Analyzer II Relic Analyzer II Cargo Scanner II Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I Medium Shield Extender II Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Core Scanner Probe Covert Ops Cloaking Device II [empty high slot] Small Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Do you really need MSE? If you get scrammed, not even XL-ASB gonna save you. You basically waste 2 lows and 1 mid. Put prop/cargo in there, or some CPU.
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Jessica Duranin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
100
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Posted - 2014.07.15 10:38:00 -
[8] - Quote
Why the hell would you put tank on a Buzzard? The cloak is your tank. If you get caught you will die anyway.
[Buzzard, Buzzard fit]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I Data Analyzer I Relic Analyzer I Cargo Scanner II Scan Rangefinding Array I
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher [Empty High slot]
Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I
Or alternatively a cargo mod instead of the nanofibre. |
Sayouti
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.07.15 12:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
Jessica Duranin wrote:Why the hell would you put tank on a Buzzard? The cloak is your tank. If you get caught you will die anyway.
[Buzzard, Buzzard fit]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I Data Analyzer I Relic Analyzer I Cargo Scanner II Scan Rangefinding Array I
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher [Empty High slot]
Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I
Or alternatively a cargo mod instead of the nanofibre.
Agreed - an MSE will increase the chances of being caught by increasing your signature radius and won't save you. Quoted fit is similar to what I'd go with though I would probably swap the nano for expanded cargohold so you can fit two small cargo containers and might rig with a polycarbon engine housing increasing agility and speed. If it's you first foray into null probably better to go with a Core Probe Launcher II and Sister's probes - the Sister's launcher is worth more than the ship.
The only other advice is to consider the area of null you're traveling in, some will be a lot busier than others due to politics/timezones etc and with cargo containers you can end up with billions of loot in your very fragile ship. |
Handar Turiant
University of Caille Gallente Federation
20
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Posted - 2014.07.15 13:01:00 -
[10] - Quote
Sayouti wrote:Jessica Duranin wrote:Why the hell would you put tank on a Buzzard? The cloak is your tank. If you get caught you will die anyway.
[Buzzard, Buzzard fit]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I Data Analyzer I Relic Analyzer I Cargo Scanner II Scan Rangefinding Array I
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher [Empty High slot]
Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I
Or alternatively a cargo mod instead of the nanofibre. Agreed - an MSE will increase the chances of being caught by increasing your signature radius and won't save you. Quoted fit is similar to what I'd go with though I would probably swap the nano for expanded cargohold so you can fit two small cargo containers and might rig with a polycarbon engine housing increasing agility and speed. If it's you first foray into null probably better to go with a Core Probe Launcher II and Sister's probes - the Sister's launcher is worth more than the ship. The only other advice is to consider the area of null you're traveling in, some will be a lot busier than others due to politics/timezones etc and with cargo containers you can end up with billions of loot in your very fragile ship.
Why use the small cargo caontainers? Don't get it. |
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Sayouti
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.07.15 14:03:00 -
[11] - Quote
They increase the amount of cargo you can hold (120m3 in 100m3 container), you can spend longer in null sec without having to return to hi sec to drop off goodies because you're out of cargo space. |
Avern
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2014.07.15 14:35:00 -
[12] - Quote
Sayouti wrote:Jessica Duranin wrote:Why the hell would you put tank on a Buzzard? The cloak is your tank. If you get caught you will die anyway.
[Buzzard, Buzzard fit]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I Data Analyzer I Relic Analyzer I Cargo Scanner II Scan Rangefinding Array I
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher [Empty High slot]
Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I
Or alternatively a cargo mod instead of the nanofibre. Agreed - an MSE will increase the chances of being caught by increasing your signature radius and won't save you. Quoted fit is similar to what I'd go with though I would probably swap the nano for expanded cargohold so you can fit two small cargo containers and might rig with a polycarbon engine housing increasing agility and speed. If it's you first foray into null probably better to go with a Core Probe Launcher II and Sister's probes - the Sister's launcher is worth more than the ship. The only other advice is to consider the area of null you're traveling in, some will be a lot busier than others due to politics/timezones etc and with cargo containers you can end up with billions of loot in your very fragile ship.
I think were that to happed I'd logoff at safest possible safe logoff then come back on in the middle of the day when the american's are sleeping and work/school for uk.
This looks like a cool area of Eve to explore :D |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2122
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 16:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
Elly Alfarius wrote:Do you really need MSE? If you get scrammed, not even XL-ASB gonna save you. You basically waste 2 lows and 1 mid. Put prop/cargo in there, or some CPU.
Smartbombs. Apparently I see way more of them than anyone else since I'm the only one on the forums insisting on a token tank. But yeah, smartbombs are the reason for it.
It also does help slightly to defend against the exploration fit T3 that just shooting at a target of opportunity. Having been on the T3 side of that exchange more than once enough buffer to survive a volley or two from a mostly non-combat fit makes sense to me.
But yes, it strains the resources on the Heron rather badly. If you'd prefer to fly without you won't see me complaining. |
Netan MalDoran
xXTheWarhammerXx
36
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Posted - 2014.07.15 18:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
I agree with the stated fits with the buzzard, but drop the MSE and put 2 warp core stabs in the lows, yes this makes using the cargo scanner more of a pain but I could've saved my last covops if I had those on me "Your security status has been lowered." - Hell yeah it was! |
Shiloh Templeton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
134
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Posted - 2014.07.16 12:35:00 -
[15] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote:[quote=Avern]By the by, I prefer the Loki for what you're describing. Tengu does work though. Why do you prefer the Loki? And do you have a Loki fit for this kind of use?
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Avern
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2014.07.16 13:34:00 -
[16] - Quote
It seems at the end of the day if you get snuck up on your choice is to fight or die regardless of what you have (Met a manticore last night while I was focused on hacking). Aside from if you have a way of breaking said lock. |
Sinnish Saken
State Protectorate Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.07.16 21:00:00 -
[17] - Quote
Drop the data analyzer. Not worth the time, focus on relics. Fit scanning mods instead.
Rig for relic sites
Stabs, no tank.
Learn how to use the map. I look for low jumps in the last hour and ships killed in the last 30 minutes/24 hours. Avoid yellow/blue bubbles like the plague.
Use wormholes to get in and out of null.
Never warp gate to gate with someone else in system. If you must, jump through the system go to a celestial then jump.
If you jump through a gate to a hostile the MWD/cloak insta-warp trick may work. If it is an interdictor or the gate is bubbled burn back to the gate and cross your fingers.
Using the above I've never lost an exploration ship, and made enough money for a noob like myself to have fun with.
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Lars Grimwal
Dead Industries
0
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Posted - 2014.07.20 05:15:00 -
[18] - Quote
I've been messing around with a stealthy explorer.
This thread helped me out a lot, so I wanted to share what I did. It's a little different tactic for some added GTFO insurance perhaps.
So here it goes.
LOWS - Nano Fiber Internal Structure II x 2
MIDS - Relic Analyzer I Scan Rangefinding Array I ECM Multispectral Jammer II x 2 F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines (Scan Resolution Script)
HIGHS - Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Core Probe Launch I (Sisters Core Scanner Probes) Auto Targeting System I
RIGS - Small Poly Carbon Engine Housing I x 2
My thoughts. The cloak and dagger game of exploration is won and lost in the high mods usage. Unless you are planning to bait a hunter and counter attack, I think it is pointless to arm and tank a covert ops exploration vessel. I also know that anyone coming to get me probably has at least 2 points, and if they are serious, they have 3 or more. If that's the case I just wasted 2 slots on stabs. BUT, there is chance I can get away from 100 points if I can jam targeting array.
That being said, this fit is designed as a "reflex" tank for GTFO purposes. Here is how I am going to use it as soon as I finish my capacitor trial run testing (need to make sure I have enough to warp firing off 2 ecm pings).
So I am at a site, cloaked. I've done all my diligence to make myself as safe as possible in the anomaly and I am about to uncloak and start hacking the site.
First thing is to get the site targeted. Next, I queue up my 2 overloaded ECMs (3 each for the non racial). Then I uncloak by starting my orbit at 2.5km and turn on my auto target and sensor booster (make sure I have checked auto target people who target me in the esc menu). Now I am covered for 50km. If anyone shoots or targets me, I am going to lock on to them in less than 5 seconds and attempt to jam them. Then I start my hack. And pick a celestial to have my warp off ready.
There I feel much safer.
Now, if someone bumps me and starts shooting or insta locks me, my reflex tank kicks in all by itself. I mash the warp button and hope I am not warp disrupted. If the jam fails, then I am pretty much screwed. All that happens in less than 5 seconds.
If it works, I feel like a champ. If it doesn't I hop into a new clone and refit.
Different kind of twist on things, regardless of your fit, you have less than 5 seconds to react in this situation where the worst that can happen is someone uncloak by ramming into you.
I tested this out on some low sec belt rats. Orbiting an asteroid at 2.5m. I've never tried to hack while orbiting so don't know if that bit works or not.
But this is cap stable around 70% with the sensor booster and auto target active. This leaves me enough cap to fire off 2 ecm's and have just enough left to initiate a warp.
Align time is about 3 seconds or so. Probably faster to not be orbiting and just be aligned before I uncloak, but, I have such a small sig radius 50km, I imagine I have at least 5 seconds before target lock. Doubtful a ganker is gonna be fitting sensor boosters or ECCM.
Biggest risks are obviously failing the jam, (i have 6 jam points so that's a good 40-60% on most non ECCM hulls I believe). Other big risk is another covert ops with guns since he's more than likely packing points, but he's probably packing more than 2 points anyways.
I'll let ya know how it goes.
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2127
|
Posted - 2014.07.20 07:42:00 -
[19] - Quote
The flaw with that? You can't pre-activate the jammers because you have the can locked. I think. I'd have to double check what happens if you unlock it after initiating the hack; it might work and I've never tried it.
Beyond that detail, you may want to tweak your fit. You needn't go with my tanky options (it seems no one likes them anyhow) but you almost certainly want a prop mod. Travel between cans takes long enough even with one, and the longer you're in the site the more likely you get dropped on. If you don't absolutely need the rangefinding array I'd drop that (assuming you want to keep the jammers and the core concept intact).
Second, the polycarbons aren't really doing much for you. Low friction nozzle joints would help your agility a bit more and if your goal is to just get out that's the stat you want to maximize.
Third: that's not quite how jammers work. You don't add their strengths; they roll independently. Rather than having a single combined roll with strength 6 you get two independent rolls of strength 3 each. Against a fairly typical 20 sensor strength target that's a 27.75% chance to jam with max skills or only 25.7% with Signal Dispersion at 3. Without Signal Dispersion trained at all it's only a 22.56% chance -- someone down in the range between 1 in 4 and 1 in 5 chances of getting a jam off on the first cycle. I doubt you'll last 20 seconds to get to the second cycle no matter what. As for the overheat, with max skills you still only have a 32.76% chance of jamming on the first cycle: it helps, but not all that much. A signal distortion amp II in the lows would get you up to a 35.3% chance of jamming on the first cycle (max skills) and two would bump that up to 37.08%. Almost 2 in 5....
For the sake of argument -- and this would assume your would-be ganker is close to you -- an ECM burst II would give you an overheated jam strength of 10.8, which comes to a 54% chance to jam on the first cycle. It's not perfect but it might be a better option. You also wouldn't have to lock back at that point. But you would have to gtfo in a hurry; bursts don't prevent retargeting.
For the record, I still think your biggest risk comes from bored T3 pilots getting a volley or two off while you align out rather than dedicated gankers pointing you. But that's just me. |
Lars Grimwal
Dead Industries
0
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Posted - 2014.07.20 08:33:00 -
[20] - Quote
Well, I didn't get challenge in the 3 sites I did tonight. I ran one in the middle of faction space thinking maybe someone would show up. Didn't happen.
You are right about the ECM locking. I realized that on the first go. I didnt think to try and unlock the site and set them. I will play with it some more. I did consider the ECM burst, but it takes the entire cap to fire it once so I didn't go with it.
I still like the idea of jamming the first shot. I'd rather have 2 roles than 1. Maybe not the best efficiency wise, but something different. I think there isn't much an explorer can do if he runs into a good trap. |
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