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asdfghjkl Niminen
Canadian industries..
0
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Posted - 2014.07.15 18:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
I think its time a new ship is introduced to the game. A ship with the sole purpose of killing super capitals. We could even use a special structure or something.
Here is what am thinking... A bunch of those ships would be able to combine their fire power into one powerful super capital ass kicking weapon. Or we could introduce another structure to the game. THE DEATH CANNON ( we can talk about the name if you want)
This new structure can only be carried by a freighter. That way you wouldn't just have everybody in the fleet carrying one. Once deployed, there will obviously be a timer before the device can be online. The device will need fuel. I vote for coolant and liquid ozone. Once fully deployed the structure will be able to deal massive damage to supers or kill capitals with ease. 3 shots for a titan, 2 for a super carrier and one for a capital ship
Just to make sure that this isn't deployed all over the bloody place. They will only be able to be used in Null Sec. Once deployed, a second one can be deployed but nowhere near the first. The fuel cost to fire up one of those puppies should be freaking high. Something that only alliances/coalitions could handle. A fully fueled death cannon can be fired 5 times (don't know what cycle time should be). There should also be a draw back for having to many death cannons anchored in a system. That's right, you wont be able to turn all your poses into the death star :). This structure would also be able to deployed away from a pos. Anywhere in space.
With this, supers will be at a greater risk when deployed. If the opposing force doesn't take out the cannon, they will be losing caps on a scale that would make B-R look petty.
We can even ad game-play around the cannon if an alliance wants to anchor one just for defensive purposes. The cannon would need maintenance every now and then. A small amount of fuel would be used by the structure to keep it combat ready. If the structure isn't maintained well, it would take longer to online when needed.
Not very knowledgeable when it comes to HP of structures, so ill leave you guys to determine what the HP should be. A new skill book will be added to use the cannon. Skill book will lower the fuel cost and online time. The cannon cannot be fired from within a pos. Fc would delegate who is going to fire the cannon when the fleet is created.
Right now, the only way to counter a super blob is another super blob. Not fun for the other people in an engagement who cant afford a super or doesn't want to be tied down to one ship.
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Fer'isam K'ahn
None Of One
213
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Posted - 2014.07.15 18:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Why do I always have to be the first to see stuff like this ?
And I have read almost the same a while ago, I am sure you will find it if you try and read the responses. (Even the wording of the first two paragraphs seems familiar... gonna check that)
And why don't you post with your super-flying-alt ? Don't wanna look stupid in front of your corp and fleet mates? Got none ? Worse ! Are you sure your issues aren't elsewhere ?! |
Dhaq
Anonymous Posters
24
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Posted - 2014.07.15 18:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
Bigger and even less accessible to the majority of the population is not good. See the proliferation of supers and the current state of null.
The problem with a null only ship is that you have to be in null to have one. Thus if you are not in null when they are release, you will not be getting one. The major blocs will built theirs and then control their production like today's supers. Nothing changed, except the bar is even now higher. |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2814
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Posted - 2014.07.15 18:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
I'd rather be able to use my caps, thanks. Something like this would be spammed mercilessly in every cap fight throughout new eden, right up until nobody bothered bringing caps/supers anymore.
We need MORE of a reason to see caps and supers on the field, so that more of them will die. We do not need a reason to never log those particular characters in again. |
Mhari Dson
Lazy Brothers Inc
102
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Posted - 2014.07.15 19:03:00 -
[5] - Quote
This would also need to be usable in WH space as well if implemented.
However, there should only be one and it should be named BADI DEA |
Professor Solus
The Chicago School
3
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Posted - 2014.07.15 20:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
asdfghjkl Niminen wrote:blah blah supercaps blah blah new mechanics blah blah
Dreadnoughts
/thread
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asdfghjkl Niminen
Canadian industries..
0
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Posted - 2014.07.15 21:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:Why do I always have to be the first to see stuff like this ? And I have read almost the same a while ago, I am sure you will find it if you try and read the responses. (Even the wording of the first two paragraphs seems familiar... gonna check that) And why don't you post with your super-flying-alt ? Don't wanna look stupid in front of your corp and fleet mates? Got none ? Worse !
Why cant eve players ever give constructive criticism. Its always... shut up you noob..... you dont know anything..... this is a horrible idea..... In all the threads i've read, nobody gives ideas on how someone's idea good be better. Null stagnation will never be fixed if this is the attitude the community seems to have. We are just gunna wait for magical ideas to fall out of the sky and fix everything.
So many smart people in eve but yet we cant get anywhere |
Fer'isam K'ahn
None Of One
214
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Posted - 2014.07.15 22:20:00 -
[8] - Quote
Hey, I just came across something that relates to what you just pointed at. - Well, yours is not 'that' bad, but still, something to consider.
I had people like my critique, thank me, even close their threads as a response after recognizing some of the mistakes they made or things they missed in their logic or conclusion. But of course, there is the faceplams and the in denial living deluded 'best idea ever - why you hate on me' guy.
With my first reply I tried to incite you a bit out of your corner to really explain and maybe bring some expertise to the table so we can evaluate your idea better to see if it has some merit or if its just thrown out there to sound important. And bringing the bifg guns out "change supers" "New anti super weapon system" with some complicated mechanics and rules dragged by the hairs to pretend there is some effort or balance considered in the proposal .... excuse us, if we look skeptic and tickle you a bit to see what you are made of.
And a 2 month acc and 2 likes doesn't help credibility. Not that its 'ad hominum' in its core, but there is some trust issues there right away. Usually I give the message a benefit of a doubt, even answer with facts to the xxx same thread and point to previous discussions - and sometimes it does not convince me.
So get on it, convince me.
Are you sure your issues aren't elsewhere ?! |
Lothros Andastar
The Minutemen The Bastion
160
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Posted - 2014.07.15 22:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
Dreadnoughts, Titans and Fighter Bombers all fill this role. |
asdfghjkl Niminen
Canadian industries..
0
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Posted - 2014.07.15 23:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:I'd rather be able to use my caps, thanks. Something like this would be spammed mercilessly in every cap fight throughout new eden, right up until nobody bothered bringing caps/supers anymore.
We need MORE of a reason to see caps and supers on the field, so that more of them will die. We do not need a reason to never log those particular characters in again.
And i suppose we just forget about the new players to eve. If they cant get into a cap/super, they stay docked or go run missions. Not long after they will just leave because having to train for months to be able to get into fights is something nobody is willing to do. That is the future of eve i see coming. No new blood because all the vets are in caps and it will take to long to catch up.
The way i see it, we will never agree on a way to combat stagnation or power projection. Eve will not be to appealing to new people and then the vets will simply get bored. |
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Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2817
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Posted - 2014.07.15 23:12:00 -
[11] - Quote
asdfghjkl Niminen wrote:Danika Princip wrote:I'd rather be able to use my caps, thanks. Something like this would be spammed mercilessly in every cap fight throughout new eden, right up until nobody bothered bringing caps/supers anymore.
We need MORE of a reason to see caps and supers on the field, so that more of them will die. We do not need a reason to never log those particular characters in again. And i suppose we just forget about the new players to eve. If they cant get into a cap/super, they stay docked or go run missions. Not long after they will just leave because having to train for months to be able to get into fights is something nobody is willing to do. That is the future of eve i see coming. No new blood because all the vets are in caps and it will take to long to catch up. The way i see it, we will never agree on a way to combat stagnation or power projection. Eve will not be to appealing to new people and then the vets will simply get bored.
But forcing caps to never undock/log in just puts the former capital pilots into very highly skilled subcaps.
What does this have to do with newbies anyway? If I'm flying my dread, I couldn't kill a newbie if I wanted to. If I can't use my dread, I'll be flying a subcap, which can kill newbies quite easily.
Pretty sure you don't rebalance caps by making them useless either. |
asdfghjkl Niminen
Canadian industries..
0
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 23:18:00 -
[12] - Quote
Lothros Andastar wrote:Dreadnoughts, Titans and Fighter Bombers all fill this role.
The idea is there should be a option other than countering the enemy with more of your own caps.. Since the death cannon is not welcomed. How about giving dreads a second siege option. One more geared towards killing supers. There would be a draw back to using a dread with that siege option. That way smaller alliances can be a pain to larger enemies if they are willing to take the risks.
Or we could just wait it out and hope enough people from both sides get so bored they decide to burn it all. Could happen, the old NC got so complacent they got steam rolled the the RUS. |
Xercodo
Xovoni Astronautical Manufacturing and Engineering
3605
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 23:19:00 -
[13] - Quote
asdfghjkl Niminen wrote:Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:Why do I always have to be the first to see stuff like this ? And I have read almost the same a while ago, I am sure you will find it if you try and read the responses. (Even the wording of the first two paragraphs seems familiar... gonna check that) And why don't you post with your super-flying-alt ? Don't wanna look stupid in front of your corp and fleet mates? Got none ? Worse ! Why cant eve players ever give constructive criticism. Its always... shut up you noob..... you dont know anything..... this is a horrible idea..... In all the threads i've read, nobody gives ideas on how someone's idea good be better. Null stagnation will never be fixed if this is the attitude the community seems to have. We are just gunna wait for magical ideas to fall out of the sky and fix everything. So many smart people in eve but yet we cant get anywhere
I think you're the one on the wrong end here.
First of all, negative criticism is still constructive. Make sure you understand that. Knowing and understanding are two separate things.
Secondly, he doesn't give a **** about how good or bad your idea is here, he's pointing out that such a topic already exists and that posting it again is a waste of time, even more so because that existing thread should already have a lot of feedback on the similar idea so that you may possible reformat to change yours.
AND finally, regarding the actual idea I can never see this as ever being a possible change to happen to EVE because titans are that very weapon for each other. They have no other purpose than to do that and make jump bridges. They ARE the anti-capital capital.
Making a smaller version (such as something along the lines of a bomber or attack BC) would be incredibly unfair to the veterans that have spent all their time and effort to get these large ships. Killing them shouldn't be easy and should be done with proper coordination and tactics. The Drake is a Lie |
Fer'isam K'ahn
None Of One
214
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 23:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
asdfghjkl Niminen wrote:Danika Princip wrote:I'd rather be able to use my caps, thanks. Something like this would be spammed mercilessly in every cap fight throughout new eden, right up until nobody bothered bringing caps/supers anymore.
We need MORE of a reason to see caps and supers on the field, so that more of them will die. We do not need a reason to never log those particular characters in again. And i suppose we just forget about the new players to eve. If they cant get into a cap/super, they stay docked or go run missions. Not long after they will just leave because having to train for months to be able to get into fights is something nobody is willing to do. That is the future of eve i see coming. No new blood because all the vets are in caps and it will take to long to catch up. The way i see it, we will never agree on a way to combat stagnation or power projection. Eve will not be to appealing to new people and then the vets will simply get bored. See, this is exactly what I am talking about. Now you reveal the lack of competent information and experience, not only the game, but arguing itself. You misunderstand the post, misread the quotes and then start arguing with unrelated references.
Any sentence or connected strain of thoughts with "new players" and "supers" is so beyond any rational connection that it is actually to dumb to point out. But this way of talking, can hardly call it arguing, is nothing uncommon, in another post, I **** you not, someone said "It is brutal that beginners are forced to train so many skills to get into command ships" . How can they expect to be taken seriously or you for that matter?
And no strawman or ad hominum, I am not evaluating 'your argument' by the image I have of you, I am evaluating 'you' by the impression your words leave behind. Words, not even bad arguments or arguments at all. Are you sure your issues aren't elsewhere ?! |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2817
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 23:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
asdfghjkl Niminen wrote:Lothros Andastar wrote:Dreadnoughts, Titans and Fighter Bombers all fill this role. The idea is there should be a option other than countering the enemy with more of your own caps.. Since the death cannon is not welcomed. How about giving dreads a second siege option. One more geared towards killing supers. There would be a draw back to using a dread with that siege option. That way smaller alliances can be a pain to larger enemies if they are willing to take the risks. Or we could just wait it out and hope enough people from both sides get so bored they decide to burn it all. Could happen, the old NC got so complacent they got steam rolled the the RUS.
Dreads ALREADY do this... |
asdfghjkl Niminen
Canadian industries..
0
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 23:41:00 -
[16] - Quote
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:asdfghjkl Niminen wrote:Danika Princip wrote:I'd rather be able to use my caps, thanks. Something like this would be spammed mercilessly in every cap fight throughout new eden, right up until nobody bothered bringing caps/supers anymore.
We need MORE of a reason to see caps and supers on the field, so that more of them will die. We do not need a reason to never log those particular characters in again. And i suppose we just forget about the new players to eve. If they cant get into a cap/super, they stay docked or go run missions. Not long after they will just leave because having to train for months to be able to get into fights is something nobody is willing to do. That is the future of eve i see coming. No new blood because all the vets are in caps and it will take to long to catch up. The way i see it, we will never agree on a way to combat stagnation or power projection. Eve will not be to appealing to new people and then the vets will simply get bored. See, this is exactly what I am talking about. Now you reveal the lack of competent information and experience, not only the game, but arguing itself. You misunderstand the post, misread the quotes and then start arguing with unrelated references. Any sentence or connected strain of thoughts with "new players" and "supers" is so beyond any rational connection that it is actually to dumb to point out. But this way of talking, can hardly call it arguing, is nothing uncommon, in another post, I **** you not, someone said "It is brutal that beginners are forced to train so many skills to get into command ships" . How can they expect to be taken seriously or you for that matter? And 'player retention' and 'new players' for example are just emotional placeholders or in this case even emotional hostages. "Listen now or you are against new players", "Listen now or you are against retaining players" and that, in your inner conclusion, inadvertently means you are against the game itself and whatever you say is from now on wrong. WRONG! And no strawman or ad hominum, I am not evaluating 'your argument' by the image I have of you, I am evaluating 'you' by the impression your words leave behind. Words, not even bad arguments or arguments at all.
Here is the simple reality... CCP would not be able to keep this game going without increasing their income. Income that only comes from new accounts. Unless you want to keep making new accounts. What i was trying to say is that with the current state of null, only supers and caps are relevant in engagements. Ships that new players cant get into unless they out in months of time. Nobody is going to that especially if they want to play casually. If we find a way to keep the sub cap relevant, we may keep a window open for new people to enjoy the game, not shoved to the side because of low skill points.
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Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
40
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Posted - 2014.07.15 23:55:00 -
[17] - Quote
Am I to assume that these are system wide weapons or only on grid ones? i might of missed it in the OP |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
7932
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 23:57:00 -
[18] - Quote
The solution is not "more" of anything.
That's just power creep. And it's already bad enough in EVE without adding stuff like this. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Fer'isam K'ahn
None Of One
214
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 00:07:00 -
[19] - Quote
K, I ll do that like in the other thread, step by step.
asdfghjkl Niminen wrote:Here is the simple reality... CCP would not be able to keep this game going without increasing their income. Assumption. Facts and data please. Subscription have been similar over the course of years with ups and downs, CPP and EVE is still here against all the other flamed out games. So go, data please.
Quote:Income that only comes from new accounts. Unless you want to keep making new accounts. Wrong conclusion and even based on a false assumption. It is about keeping a certain amount of paying players or an equal exchange of new vs old ones. Stop believing in the endless growth myth.
Quote:What i was trying to say is that with the current state of null, only supers and caps are relevant in engagements. Assumption, wrong again. Though I am not much in null, I can see even from here, that a lot of other ships are viable. Its down to pilots, numbers, intel, counterintel, organization and a good command and opportunity.
Quote:Ships that new players cant get into unless they out in months of time. All ships are months, years out if you want to fly them proper, stop holding the new player image hostage.
Quote:Nobody is going to that especially if they want to play casually. If we find a way to keep the sub cap relevant, we may keep a window open for new people to enjoy the game, not shoved to the side because of low skill points. Cant do more quotes, so I do it step by step.: Nobody ... :Assumption about what is the right/wrong way to play, casual is btw. the right way to get annoying long time skills down. If we... :Assumption and false observation, they are relevant, just not in your limited perception, imagination. I for instance will never go into caps, probably not even Marauders, though I am not set on those. we may ... low skillpoints: Wrong, every pilot can be used to matter, low skillpoints is no hindrance, only your own perception/imagination as a (new) player and commander using them.
And that should show you how much at fault you are
PS: And besides, we are completely off the topic and will retract myself from this nonsense now. I did what I came here to do, either support and further or oppose and prevent a suggestion or unmask it as redundant.
Are you sure your issues aren't elsewhere ?! |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2322
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 00:14:00 -
[20] - Quote
...so Doomsdays aren't death cannons after all? |
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Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
976
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 00:25:00 -
[21] - Quote
Supers are already pretty vulnerable when deployed. Especially if you catch one solo. Massive blobs, not so much but that's to be expected when you have 100 of anything. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1815
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 01:48:00 -
[22] - Quote
^ EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Xercodo
Xovoni Astronautical Manufacturing and Engineering
3605
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 03:16:00 -
[23] - Quote
asdfghjkl Niminen wrote:
Here is the simple reality... CCP would not be able to keep this game going without increasing their income. Income that only comes from new accounts. Unless you want to keep making new accounts. What i was trying to say is that with the current state of null, only supers and caps are relevant in engagements. Ships that new players cant get into unless they out in months of time. Nobody is going to that especially if they want to play casually. If we find a way to keep the sub cap relevant, we may keep a window open for new people to enjoy the game, not shoved to the side because of low skill points.
Subcap are plenty relevant, and they get deployed in the 100s.
Besides, who's to say that nullsec has to be a new player's goal? They can do sub caps in Whs just fine, and highsec and lowsec and RVB, and FW can use sub caps to great effect.
Additionally, new players do not "provide the income to keep the game going". It's a subscription game, everyone contributes to keeping it going. New players simply allow it to grow, allow CCP to hire more people, and hopefully make game changes and added content happen faster.
And if you say one word about PLEXes not playing a factor in this I will ******* slap you with an entire battleship. I would dec you but you're clearly an alt, so that you may hide when the forums call you out on bad ideas.
If you REALLY wanna get to the nob of the matter for player retention then talk about tutorial makeovers first before ANYTHING else. The Drake is a Lie |
Tex Raynor
Guardians of Asceticism
3
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 05:07:00 -
[24] - Quote
What if such cannons were limited to outposts only? Provided they are destructible, cost a lot and have a solid counter, they would give "home turf" advantage to the defending party.
The general idea I have in mind would be the following:
- Any outpost owner can attach this death cannon to an outpost relatively quickly. - Costs 5 bil per structure. - Can hold 10 charges that instakills any ship, but costs 1 bil per round fired. - Grand total of 15 bil sitting outside an outpost, posing a serious threat to supers but can be attacked by subcaps with minimal loss. - Reinforcement timer and HP similar to POCOs. - Does not auto-fire, requires a pilot (either docked or in-space, w/e) - Requires at least one POS module ("Death Cannon Onliner" or w/e better name) anchored and online somewhere in system to work. Said structure could be anchorabe in or out of POS shields, no limit other than one per POS. - Has a chance to miss (tracking, etc) and can be disrupted by all relevant EWAR - Has a lower cost alternative ammo for subcaps (missiles) which much like a bomb, can be shot down or simply avoided by warping off. This can be used to effectively kill anchored bubbles as well. - Can be disabled either by brute force (fastest but riskier) or by grinding down all POSes first (slower but effectively offlines it) - Can be made invulnerable up to a week (consuming lots of stront) while remaining online
Why should this be considered?
- Creates an interesting target to go harass with roaming gangs (no POS guns around outposts!) and thus generates smaller-scale PVP. - Invaders have two effective ways to deal with it: Option a) Attack it directly with capitals with a solid EWAR wing. This gives defenders a chance to hit their subcaps with low tank using bombers or skirmish ships. If defenders succeed, the cannon guarantees almost 10 kills of any ship still on grid. Option b) Disable all relevant POSes first, which gives defenders more time to mobilize their forces, allies or simply evac. - Gives anyone who has the ability to hold sov even for a little while to potentially score super kills. - Invaders can risk no capitals giving defenders capital ship supremacy in their own system, deploy dreads/carriers and risk trading ISK at equal costs or go all out, but potentially lose up to 10 titans while doing so.
From the defenders point of view, it should be impractical to deploy these everywhere as their hefty cost will inevitably attract roaming gangs for easy 15 bil kills but provided a solid defensive measures against an all-out assault. |
Sara Tosa
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
14
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 07:44:00 -
[25] - Quote
ok, my try to bash at supers and look silly: The Suicide Limpet Destroyer. As the arm balance between the four Empires and the outsider, capsuleer owned regions toppled faster and faster toward the latter, a new kind of ship was researched as a last ditch measure, not counting as always that capsuleer would be able to take ownership of that new kind of ships and use them better than any regular pilot could. basically a destroyer hull stripped to the bare minimum, with no other weapon than an ultra-specialized module. this module is capable to form a short lived high power, low range tractor that will anchor the destroyer to any ship with enough mass (supers and titans) for sixty seconds, at the end of which the whole destroyer succumb to a total matter/energy conversion, basically becoming a shaped breaching charge. once the suicide module is activated it cant be stopped by the ship pilot in any way, the ship will be stuck to its target anywhere it goes - warp, jumps, even inside pos shields (but only if its activated before the target enter said shields); as the suicide destroyer is stuck flush to its target hull, it's inside the target shields so it will be protected from any harm by the same ship its trying to kill, attached limpet destroyers can be hit only after target ship shields have been brought to zero. the limpet destroyer explosion is so powerfull that its pilot wont even have the chance to excape in his capsule but will recover directly to his medical jump clone station. |
Luwc
Biohazard. WINMATAR.
170
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 08:45:00 -
[26] - Quote
LOL
nice troll mate :D http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif |
Grobalobobob Bob
Hedion University Amarr Empire
36
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 09:55:00 -
[27] - Quote
How about a special type of pod that you fly into the side of a capital / super / titan... and you automatically find yourself in that ships captains quarters. From there you can walk around, push a few buttons, and re-route ALL control of the ship to your console. You can self destruct, or start shooting enemies, sky is the limit.
From this point onwards, the original pilot is merely a spectator and can sit back and watch the show.
Once the other pilot ejects, or leaves, the original pilot will assume control again. Personally i'd self destruct it, as it would be impossible to steal it with the other pilot still on board. If CCP developed CQ a bit more, the original pilot and the 'new pilot' could have a gun fight, sending the loser back to a medical clone. TDi WOULD be in effect, ergo, you could have "Matrix" style bullet time fights... it would be AWESOME.
Or if no one likes my idea, we could always go back to exploring ideas of a titan eater...
Linkage
I assume this is the Amarr version........ |
Hakan MacTrew
MUTED VOID Takahashi Alliance
840
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 21:17:00 -
[28] - Quote
A ship designed to kill Supers with a 'Death Cannon'...
Yep, sounds like a Titan to me. http://meme-generator.me/media/created/d3r3t8.jpg |
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