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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
JigglyPoof
CONTAGION OUTBREAK
0
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Posted - 2011.11.20 14:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
So with this switch, it is going to cost me 4x more to run my large POS? Is this correct?
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=3029 |
Leonard Dukes
Arbitrage Holdings Corporation
23
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Posted - 2011.11.20 14:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:The four racial fuel blocks will be built in batches of four in all stations [...] Each batch of fourwill need the following components [...] Towers will use 1 block/hour for small, 2 blocks/hour for medium and 4 blocks/hour for large
JigglyPoof wrote: So with this switch, it is going to cost me 4x more to run my large POS? Is this correct?
This is not correct. |
Kisuke Riva
Ares Inc.
1
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Posted - 2011.11.20 15:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
No; btw, POS fuel cost is 50% in PI products but 95% of the m-¦ is from Ice, think about it. |
Jokiller Solarius
Lantean Industries
0
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Posted - 2011.11.20 16:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
Just to let you know Leonard is wrong its 40 per hour for a large and a fuel block bpo produces 40 blocks every 5 mins |
Esunisen
Les Tueurs de Killer Une Pour Tous
0
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Posted - 2011.11.20 19:08:00 -
[5] - Quote
mmm, gotta try this on Sisi ASAP |
Dark Privateer
Unreal Darkness
0
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Posted - 2011.11.21 12:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
Stupifying Eve, One patch at a time. Don't make us think or anything and be responsible about something so expensive and important. Hey, fuel blocks are going to be complicated to those in the future in a few years, so could they just run themselves with regenerative power systems that require no maintenance? Hey now, I think I am on to something here.... |
agrajag119
GeoCorp. Gentlemen's Agreement
1
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Posted - 2011.11.21 18:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
Dark Privateer wrote:Stupifying Eve, One patch at a time. Don't make us think or anything and be responsible about something so expensive and important. Hey, fuel blocks are going to be complicated to those in the future in a few years, so could they just run themselves with regenerative power systems that require no maintenance? Hey now, I think I am on to something here....
It isn't dumbing down Eve. The logistics and planning is just moved to a process that is simpler. People still need the materials and know-how to make the blocks and to run the math on pricing. What they are eliminating is a pointless pain in the butt. Managing multiple POSs shouldn't require a dedicated out of game timer app and hours upon hours of time. |
makoir Noriad
Akimamur Industries
0
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Posted - 2011.11.22 06:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
One of the many problems with the last patch was there was so much change to the game. They could end up having the same problem with the next one It wont matter how good it is. Ther'll be too much for everyone to take in and people wont like it. Heres hoping they have 3 or 4 small patches over the december month and spoon feed us little bits at a time. |
Eladaris
Excessum Industries Excessum Gaming
121
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Posted - 2011.11.22 06:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
Dark Privateer wrote:Stupifying Eve, One patch at a time.
Really? Before all you had to do was have the right pieces, in the right quantities, and have someone drop them in the POS fuel bay.
Now you've got to have exactly the same pieces (different quantities), but you actually have to have a free manufacturing slot, a researched BPO, and at least a few hours to manufacture the blocks. Sure, it could be easier if you simply BUY the blocks from the market... in which case you're paying someone else to make things easy for you.
I'd imagine anyone who's ever had to futz with fueling a POS welcomes at least some of the change.
makoir Noriad wrote:One of the many problems with the last patch was there was so much change to the game. They could end up having the same problem with the next one It wont matter how good it is. Ther'll be too much for everyone to take in and people wont like it. Heres hoping they have 3 or 4 small patches over the december month and spoon feed us little bits at a time.
Most of the things they've been discussing have been live on SiSi for at least a little while. A few weeks in some cases, but after building up all that goodwill with the daily Dev blogs and Dev's commenting on the forums I expect CCP will burn a lot of that goodwill with a mess of bugs, followed by CCP taking another few weeks of vacation immediately after the patch hits. |
Caghji
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.11.22 12:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
Fail to understand how this simplifies the refueling system
ATM I transport all my PI and fuel in JF to my POSs
new system I transport all my PI and ice to factory - make fuel blocks - then use JF to go to all POSs
That looks like a new level of complexity to me!?
When I heard they were 'simplyfying' the fuel - especially for players who have 4+ poss - what I had hoped was a drop in m3 in the fuel blocks compared to current fuel m3 - but no it is pretty much the same (if anything a bit more as I never onlined all defences anyway - but now i use max LO so that is actually more m3) -- so might have to do more JF jumps.....
Now not against the whole process but I am a bit baffled about it being 'simplyfied'
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Esunisen
Les Tueurs de Killer Une Pour Tous
4
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Posted - 2011.11.22 12:10:00 -
[11] - Quote
Could't find the fuel block BPOs on Sisi
Not yet release ? Or is it in LP store ? |
Lutz Major
Austriae Est Imperare Orbi Universo
41
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Posted - 2011.11.22 12:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
Caghji wrote:Fail to understand how this simplifies the refueling system Well, I give a crap about PI and now I just have to buy ONE item not eight. I also have to check (double/tripple check) ONE timer for the fuel and not eight. Yes .. for me it will be simpler.
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Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
380
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Posted - 2011.11.22 15:01:00 -
[13] - Quote
Esunisen wrote:Could't find the fuel block BPOs on Sisi Not yet release ? Or is it in LP store ?
Try Thukker Mix corporation - at least that's who I think is going to be selling the BPOs.
(Can't run Sisi at the moment.)
And as soon as you have 2 or more towers to fuel, the fuel pellets will suddenly make your life much easier. Undock in hauler filled with fuel pellets, stop at each tower, fill to brim, go to next tower. No messy math involved during the refueling op (unless you need charters, but those are tiny).
Prior to that it was "plug numbers into spreadsheet, shift-drag 8 or 9 different products to your cargo bay, fly out, fill first tower, fly back, repeat calculations for 2nd tower". |
Velicitia
Open Designs
109
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Posted - 2011.11.22 15:28:00 -
[14] - Quote
Scrapyard Bob wrote: Prior to that it was "plug numbers into spreadsheet, shift-drag 8 or 9 different products to your cargo bay, fly out, fill first tower, fly back, repeat calculations for 2nd tower".
I cheated and had IGB calculator ... but yes, it was
- Check for tower 1
- load fuel for tower 1
- Haul the fuel for tower 1, fuel the tower
- Dock, check for tower 2
- Load up the fuel
- Haul the fuel, and fuel the tower
- ....(time)
- finally dock up and be done with fuelling the damn towers
now it's going to be
- get in orca or freighter
- load up a few hundred m3 of blocks
- head to tower 1, fill it up
- head to tower 2, fill it up
- ... (time)
- dock up and be done with fuelling for another 3 weeks or so
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Eladaris
Excessum Industries Excessum Gaming
124
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Posted - 2011.11.22 16:37:00 -
[15] - Quote
Scrapyard Bob wrote:Esunisen wrote:Could't find the fuel block BPOs on Sisi Not yet release ? Or is it in LP store ? Try Thukker Mix corporation - at least that's who I think is going to be selling the BPOs.
According to the early Dev notes, it is indeed Thukker. I haven't checked it out on SiSi either, but that's where they should be seeded. |
Boris Ginnungagap
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
8
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Posted - 2011.11.22 17:54:00 -
[16] - Quote
Dark Privateer wrote:Stupifying Eve, One patch at a time. Don't make us think or anything and be responsible about something so expensive and important. Hey, fuel blocks are going to be complicated to those in the future in a few years, so could they just run themselves with regenerative power systems that require no maintenance? Hey now, I think I am on to something here.... Seriously you are so wrong.
Think about this when you fill your gas tank next time. Do you throw in fuel components or refined, ready to use fuel? |
Zanban
Stealth Sector The Revenant Order
12
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Posted - 2011.11.22 22:46:00 -
[17] - Quote
Just did the math and as it sits right now to run a amarr large control tower it takes 8 coolant 4 enriched uranium 450 isoptopes 5 mechanical parts 25 oxygen 1 robotics 150 heavy water 150 ozone
That is for 1 hour. With this new system it will take 4 fuel blocks for 1 hour to run a large tower that is 32 coolant 16 enriched uranium 1600 isotopes 16 mechanical parts 80 oxygen 4 robotics 600 heavy water 600 ozone Double check my math may be off alittle but it look to me that a large tower will cost 4 times the isk to run will this fuel block system. Yes it will be easy to maintane and easier to get your fuel to your POS but at 4X the cost.
Not worth it if you ask me or did I read that wrong |
Cyniac
Twilight Star Rangers Black Thorne Alliance
52
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Posted - 2011.11.22 22:52:00 -
[18] - Quote
Zanban wrote:Just did the math and as it sits right now to run a amarr large control tower it takes 8 coolant 4 enriched uranium 450 isoptopes 5 mechanical parts 25 oxygen 1 robotics 150 heavy water 150 ozone
That is for 1 hour. With this new system it will take 4 fuel blocks for 1 hour to run a large tower that is 32 coolant 16 enriched uranium 1600 isotopes 16 mechanical parts 80 oxygen 4 robotics 600 heavy water 600 ozone Double check my math may be off alittle but it look to me that a large tower will cost 4 times the isk to run will this fuel block system. Yes it will be easy to maintane and easier to get your fuel to your POS but at 4X the cost.
Not worth it if you ask me
Take a deep breath, go back, read the actual devblog carefully, or maybe just read the first few posts of this thread.
Trust me, you'll feel better for it.
I somehow cannot believe people still make this mistake AGAIN and AGAIN!
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Zanban
Stealth Sector The Revenant Order
12
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Posted - 2011.11.22 22:55:00 -
[19] - Quote
Yea your right 1 cycle makes 4 fuel block my bad sorry my mistake |
Caghji
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.11.22 23:28:00 -
[20] - Quote
Lutz Major wrote:Caghji wrote:Fail to understand how this simplifies the refueling system Well, I give a crap about PI and now I just have to buy ONE item not eight. I also have to check (double/tripple check) ONE timer for the fuel and not eight. Yes .. for me it will be simpler.
I presume u mean u 'don't' give a crap.......
shrugs
I can see if you are just buying straight from the market this maybe easier - but then that is only a very small part of the overall fuel process - which imo as a whole has been made more complex not less |
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Taedrin
Kushan Industrial
155
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Posted - 2011.11.23 05:29:00 -
[21] - Quote
Dark Privateer wrote:Stupifying Eve, One patch at a time. Don't make us think or anything and be responsible about something so expensive and important. Hey, fuel blocks are going to be complicated to those in the future in a few years, so could they just run themselves with regenerative power systems that require no maintenance? Hey now, I think I am on to something here....
The process will only be simplified for those who simply buy their fuel off the market. For people who make their own fuel, it increases the complexity as they will need ot manufacture their own fuel blocks now, along with manufacturing their PI goods.
All in all, it adds another potential market to be exploited by enterprising individuals, so I don't see how this could be anything but good. |
Gabba Cyno
1
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Posted - 2011.11.23 08:04:00 -
[22] - Quote
Taedrin wrote:Dark Privateer wrote:Stupifying Eve, One patch at a time. Don't make us think or anything and be responsible about something so expensive and important. Hey, fuel blocks are going to be complicated to those in the future in a few years, so could they just run themselves with regenerative power systems that require no maintenance? Hey now, I think I am on to something here.... The process will only be simplified for those who simply buy their fuel off the market. For people who make their own fuel, it increases the complexity as they will need ot manufacture their own fuel blocks now, along with manufacturing their PI goods. All in all, it adds another potential market to be exploited by enterprising individuals, so I don't see how this could be anything but good.
+1 |
Esunisen
Les Tueurs de Killer Une Pour Tous
5
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Posted - 2011.11.23 09:14:00 -
[23] - Quote
But if 1 block is consumed when your tower isn't at full CPU/grid, you're using more fuel, aren't you ? |
pussnheels
Vintage heavy industries
176
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Posted - 2011.11.23 12:31:00 -
[24] - Quote
Esunisen wrote:But if 1 block is consumed when your tower isn't at full CPU/grid, you're using more fuel, aren't you ? not really because it uses less isotopes and pi commodities overall to make one fuelblock only problem i forsee is that because of the playerowned custom offices for pi will deter alot of people of doing their pi in low sec the price for them will rise significant I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
Velicitia
Open Designs
112
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Posted - 2011.11.23 13:16:00 -
[25] - Quote
Cyniac wrote:Zanban wrote:Just did the math and as it sits right now to run a amarr large control tower it takes 8 coolant 4 enriched uranium 450 isoptopes 5 mechanical parts 25 oxygen 1 robotics 150 heavy water 150 ozone
That is for 1 hour. With this new system it will take 4 fuel blocks for 1 hour to run a large tower that is 32 coolant 16 enriched uranium 1600 isotopes 16 mechanical parts 80 oxygen 4 robotics 600 heavy water 600 ozone Double check my math may be off alittle but it look to me that a large tower will cost 4 times the isk to run will this fuel block system. Yes it will be easy to maintane and easier to get your fuel to your POS but at 4X the cost.
Not worth it if you ask me Take a deep breath, go back, read the actual devblog carefully, or maybe just read the first few posts of this thread. Trust me, you'll feel better for it. I somehow cannot believe people still make this mistake AGAIN and AGAIN!
CCP has changed this though.
Original Idea: 1 run makes 4 blocks. Each block was 50 m3.
Hourly consumption was 4/2/1 Faction towers had no fuel bonus, but a bigger fuel bay.
NEW WAY: 1 run makes FORTY (40) blocks. Each block is 5 m3.
Hourly consumption is 40/20/10. Faction towers are 36/18/9 and 32/16/8 now (rather than the proposed bigger fuel bay).
source |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
387
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Posted - 2011.11.23 13:43:00 -
[26] - Quote
Esunisen wrote:But if 1 block is consumed when your tower isn't at full CPU/grid, you're using more fuel, aren't you ?
Old system:
Coolant: 2 / 4 / 8 Enriched Uranium: 1 / 2 / 4 Mech Parts: 2 / 3 / 5 Oxygen: 7 / 13 / 25 Robotics: 1 / 1 / 1 Charters: 1 / 1 / 1 (hi-sec only) Isotopes: 113 / 225 / 450
Heavy Water: 38 / 75 / 150 (CPU-driven) Liquid Ozone: 38 / 75 / 150 (PG-driven)
Approx prices per month using today's fuel consumption rates (and assuming full CPU/PG):
Amarr: 139 / 219 / 379 Caldari: 142 / 225 / 392 Gallente: 228 / 396 / 734 Minmatar: 144 / 228 / 397
How much of that is from HW/LOz? For the 3 tower sizes, using today's prices (HW 155, LOz 419), the HW/LOz costs are (in millions of ISK):
HW: 4.2 / 8.4 / 16.8 LOz: 11.5 / 22.6 / 45.3
New system:
Coolant: 2 / 4 / 8 Enriched Uranium: 1 / 2 / 4 Mech Parts: 1 / 2 / 4 (small reduction per hour) Oxygen: 5 / 10 / 20 (small reduction) Robotics: 0.25 / 0.50 / 1.00 (small reduction) Charters: 1 / 1 / 1 (hi-sec only) Isotopes: 100 / 200 / 400 (reduced)
Heavy Water: 38 / 75 / 150 (fixed at max) Liquid Ozone: 38 / 75 / 150 (fixed at max)
Approx prices per month using today's prices:
Amarr: 90 / 178 / 355 Caldari: 93 / 184 / 366 Gallente: 169 / 336 / 671 Minmatar: 94 / 186 / 371
Cost savings (approximate) by tower size each 30 days, assuming that you were previously maxed out on HW/LOz:
Small towers: 40M/30d (-35%) Med towers: 40M/30d (-19%) Large towers: 24M/30d (-6.4%)
Since small towers only paid a maximum of 16M ISK for their HW/LOz needs, a bare small tower with zero of each still ends up about 24M ISK/30d cheaper. Medium towers HW/LOz usage is about 31M, so they'll still end up at least 9M/30d cheaper. Large towers had less overall savings, so they might actually go up in price slightly due to increased HW/LOz usage. |
Esunisen
Les Tueurs de Killer Une Pour Tous
5
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Posted - 2011.11.23 15:51:00 -
[27] - Quote
I see, thanks.
Really need to try this on Sisi... |
Esunisen
Les Tueurs de Killer Une Pour Tous
6
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Posted - 2011.11.24 08:59:00 -
[28] - Quote
Conldn't find them at Thukker Mix station
Where the hell do you buy those BPOs ? |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
391
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Posted - 2011.11.24 12:46:00 -
[29] - Quote
Esunisen wrote:Conldn't find them at Thukker Mix station Where the hell do you buy those BPOs ?
Yeah, apparently they don't show up at the moment. CCP was notified in one of the threads that these were not showing up on Sisi and the acknowledged that it needed to be looked into. So they're aware of the issue. |
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