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Soyemia
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Posted - 2006.06.30 20:14:00 -
[1]
Minmatar recons suck compared to others, you all know it. "IMAGINE RAVEN WITH RAGE TORPS AND HUGINN!!!!!!!111". No, you would be better of with rook jammer, as enemy would be radically reduced on damage, FoF do crap, drones wouldnt hurt that much either, and would split up with you and raven.
Curse: Nos = enemys tank crippled = better, and if its turret BS, you can cripple its range, and you and raven can sit out of range.
Lachesis: Damp it, they cant hit you, sit outside their range. An you can even tackle too from long range.
Solution; GIve matari recons offensive EW, TP:s suck you all know it, so matari recons suck. Your better off with any other BS:s in any situation, in fleet, solo and small gangs, just face it, thye need BIG boost.
Proud member of fix. Hated on finnish channel. |
Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2006.06.30 20:19:00 -
[2]
Err, no.
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Jan Javaar
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Posted - 2006.06.30 20:34:00 -
[3]
The webber range bonus is very nice, can you hear the inties cursing when they get webbed to a standstill 40 kms out?
Originally by: The Wizz117
Corporations ... the last 20 i joined have all disbanded after a few weeks
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Mi'zuro
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Posted - 2006.06.30 20:35:00 -
[4]
CCP could give them a bonus to web range.
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Famine Aligher'ri
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Posted - 2006.06.30 20:38:00 -
[5]
Is there some reason why you can't use ECM on a huginn? It would be lighter ECM than the rook but you know you would have more DPS with a Huginn with ECM than a Rook with ECM (Drones + autocannons + Ballistics).
That or just learn how to fly the ships correctly for what you need. Minmatar recons are fine.
--------------- Vile - Recruiting 0.0 Pirates --------------- |
Jan Javaar
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Posted - 2006.06.30 20:45:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Jan Javaar on 30/06/2006 20:46:08 Mi'Zuro, they already have: Huginn
Excerpt: Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 60% bonus to stasis webifier range
Originally by: The Wizz117
Corporations ... the last 20 i joined have all disbanded after a few weeks
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Haniblecter Teg
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Posted - 2006.06.30 20:50:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Soyemia Minmatar recons suck compared to others, you all know it. "IMAGINE RAVEN WITH RAGE TORPS AND HUGINN!!!!!!!111". No, you would be better of with rook jammer, as enemy would be radically reduced on damage, FoF do crap, drones wouldnt hurt that much either, and would split up with you and raven.
Curse: Nos = enemys tank crippled = better, and if its turret BS, you can cripple its range, and you and raven can sit out of range.
Lachesis: Damp it, they cant hit you, sit outside their range. An you can even tackle too from long range.
Solution; GIve matari recons offensive EW, TP:s suck you all know it, so matari recons suck. Your better off with any other BS:s in any situation, in fleet, solo and small gangs, just face it, thye need BIG boost.
English your native langauge? Doesnt seem so. ---------------------------------------- Friends Forever
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2006.06.30 20:52:00 -
[8]
Out of interest, what on earth does native language have to do with anything? New sig coming soonÖ By "soon" I do not necessarily mean "this year" |
Zephirz
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Posted - 2006.06.30 21:31:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg
English your native langauge? Doesnt seem so.
Thats just a ridiculous irrelevant post... Wtf does that have to do with the Op???
On topic.. yeah on paper the minnie recons seem a bit underpowered.. or more so.. teh amarr recons seem overpowered. They 2 bonuses to incapacitating hostile ships (nos and tracking disruptor) and they get a bonus to offensive weapons (drones) While The other ships also have some neat bonuses. the amarr recons almost get the perfect pvp package.
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Mi'zuro
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Posted - 2006.06.30 21:47:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Jan Javaar Edited by: Jan Javaar on 30/06/2006 20:46:08 Mi'Zuro, they already have: Huginn
Excerpt: Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 60% bonus to stasis webifier range
I was being ironic.
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Prestis
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Posted - 2006.06.30 21:52:00 -
[11]
Target painting and extra web range BOTH suck as EW forms.
Does anyone actually think they compare to making a ship helpless with jamming? Target painters do virtually nothing to turret damage, and there's no need for webbers to go out to 40km - you'll hit anything at that range anyway.
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Deva Blackfire
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Posted - 2006.06.30 22:07:00 -
[12]
Next time think a bit :) Minmatar recons are much better gang ships than said curse. You can be sure no inty will even get close, and if it does - it is dead.
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Imhotep Khem
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Posted - 2006.07.01 01:14:00 -
[13]
They make nice Recon ships though. As in cloak and investigate but keep yourself unknown. If you uncloak you are basically wasting your isk.
A TP bonus on a TECH II ship is absolutely freakin NUTZ.
And whats with the Huginn? 5% medium projectile ROF, then 5% launcher ROF??? Mixed bonus 4tl The only thing good about the Huginn is the price -> 48M.
I flew my Rapier and quickly realized its not going to bring anything special to a fight. The price has come down over 100M since. But I never looked at the other races recon ships. I am very upset right now.
NO this ship is not better in a gang.
TRACKING DISRUPTOR AND ENERGY VAMPIRE
The decision to make Minmatar's flavor of EW, Target Painting is a legendary blunder that Minmatar will be paying for years to come. ____ "If your not dyin' your not tryin'." "Are you prepared to go all the way, Alexi?" DuGalle |
Yurii Chan
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Posted - 2006.07.01 01:21:00 -
[14]
tho i agree that the target painting bonus is crap (come on, you all agree too deep in your heart.) i must say i love my huginn. It's a great gang ship when fitted with faction gear including scramblers and webbers
kept quite a few battleship from ever reaching that gate of safety while the rest of my gang went for the kill. On top of that, it can be a great solo ship provided you have the skills. double webbed from 50km ftw..
but yea, it has room for improvement, i just wish TP meant a damn thing to turrets. (the added sig from painters are bleh... my guns can hit w.o the damn painter thank you very much)
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Ishen Villone
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Posted - 2006.07.01 01:22:00 -
[15]
Excellent fleet-op anti-tacklers. Used in tandem with the Gallente recons and you can tackle a ship from very long distance.
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Reatu Krentor
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Posted - 2006.07.01 01:39:00 -
[16]
what you're getting at is that minnie ew isn't offensive, which is correct in a way. It's more about assisting others with their offensive, that's what target painters and webs do. Nothing wrong with it. Harder to use these bonuses solo, sure... But is solo'ing really what we need?
I think it's fine as it is, webbing and painting a target from 30+km can be entertaining. And a great help to any gang member shooting the target. - "I wish CONCORD would scream "No-one expects the Spanish Inquisition" when they turn up to blob you. " -_ Twilight Moon |
Imhotep Khem
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Posted - 2006.07.01 02:00:00 -
[17]
I can just as easily use a Stiletto or Claw for a LOT less isk. The Bellicose also sports the lame TP bonus.
Honestly, the other Recon's bonus has a MUCH stronger effect in a fight. If they want TP they need to bump it up to 15%. I know TP does actually work, and I actually use TII TP on my Typhoon back when I flew it. But its not a Significant bonus for a T2 ship. Its rather lame. And it certainly does not add to the ships survivability. ____ "If your not dyin' your not tryin'." "Are you prepared to go all the way, Alexi?" DuGalle |
Stamm
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Posted - 2006.07.01 02:17:00 -
[18]
I often gang with an interdictor and a huggin. Everything dies, fast.
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Ranger 1
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Posted - 2006.07.01 03:01:00 -
[19]
Absolutely perfect for several applications, but not as versital as some of the others are admittedly.
You might consider it's effect teamed with a Caldari dread. Or as part of a gate camp with any mix of ships actually, but particularly missile users. Or in a force taking on a ceptor fleet. Or as a support vessel to a stealth bomber fleet. Or half a dozen other situations I can think of.
They take a bit of planning to use correctly, definately at it's best in a group. But far, far from useless. And yeah, take a clue from the other recons and don't just depend on strictly using the items you have a bonus on. There are many a Pilgrim out there with Turret Disruptors AND standard ECM.
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Jerick Ludhowe
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Posted - 2006.07.01 03:09:00 -
[20]
Target Painters, + uber web range, + tech 2 720s and heavy launchers = intie goes pop. Hugin is also amazing for 1v1 as you can easily kite just about anything with weapon ranges shorter than 28k.
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Testicular Testes
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Posted - 2006.07.01 04:12:00 -
[21]
The Huginn and Rapier are insane gangmobiles (and obviously with kiting perfectly invincible 1v1ers too). If you can't recognize the power of the web bonus, something is inherently wrong with you.
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Imhotep Khem
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Posted - 2006.07.01 04:49:00 -
[22]
The web bonus is something, but its Nothing compared to what the other Recons have. There is just no comparison and a quick check of the price should show how the playerbase has valued Minmatar Recons. Small.
CCP just admitted tracking bonuses were rather weak and boosted them. A TP bonus is fundamentally a tracking bonus. ____ "If your not dyin' your not tryin'." "Are you prepared to go all the way, Alexi?" DuGalle |
Famine Aligher'ri
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Posted - 2006.07.01 06:23:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Imhotep Khem The web bonus is something, but its Nothing compared to what the other Recons have. There is just no comparison and a quick check of the price should show how the playerbase has valued Minmatar Recons. Small.
CCP just admitted tracking bonuses were rather weak and boosted them. A TP bonus is fundamentally a tracking bonus.
That's because majority of the people who post on the forums have no clue how to fly certain ships. They instead mimic what others have said was good or bad. Take you for a major example.
--------------- Vile - Recruiting 0.0 Pirates --------------- |
Soyemia
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Posted - 2006.07.01 06:54:00 -
[24]
TP bonus is crap compared to other recons bonii, its almoust useless, with any other recon you have more impact on battle than huginn. Just face it. Web is something, but is NOTHING compared to other EW, as, it doesnt prevent you getting hit, and you are paper thin. "YOU CAN FIT ECM AND STUFF U ARE LIGHTER THAN ROOK BUT U CAN FIT ECM" dude, take BB out and you'll be better off, and DPS on recons? You just said they are gang ships, so you are better off with hac / t1 cruiser.
There is only VERY few situations where huginn is actually better than those, VERY FEW. And they are bubble camps + dread attacts, but only stupid uses dreads in fleets, or anything else than sieging station / POS:s.
TP:s need to eb changed to proper EW, until then you see how crap they are from price. But once again CCP dont want to change them, cause they dont want to admit that they have made crap EW. Or one is that give 100& web range per level and 200% to TP effectivenes, then thye would be near good.
Proud member of fix. Hated on finnish channel. |
Lonectzn
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Posted - 2006.07.01 08:51:00 -
[25]
Huginn is probably tied with the gallente recons for the second best small gang ship in 0.0 (interdictors being best).
I simply can not think of better ships for small gangs.
If you've ever been in 0.0 you'd know most small gangs consist of frigs. With dual webbing at 40km + with two sb locking time of a frig + arty the ship absolutely owns. And I mean owns. Best speed counter in the game, and no better partner for your dictor or bubble exists. Calling them underpowered is just plain wrong.
Most important thing is actually catching your target, and the Huginn does that beautifully.
Also, don't ever fit TP on your Huginn. The Huginn only has 3 bonuses.
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Prestis
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Posted - 2006.07.01 09:55:00 -
[26]
Here's an idea - change the target painting bonus to +2% web strength per level. Being able to freeze a target completely from 40km is sort of useful.. Good for gates and inties at least.
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Zhon
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Posted - 2006.07.01 10:49:00 -
[27]
Actually Target painters are very very useful in small gangs like lets say hacs or even recon gangs. After the ships TP a target the Lock time on it goes down significantly. This allows for other gang member to utilized their midslot more efficiently cause they dont have to throw away 1-2 slots on sensor boosters. So basically a target painter can be just as effctive a a t1 sensor booster shaving precesiouc seconds of lock time.
Not to mention uping the damage a bit for weapons types. It like havean extra 1-2 levels of gunnery spec or missiles spec.
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Stamm
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Posted - 2006.07.01 11:01:00 -
[28]
It seems that anything that doesn't do direct damage, or at least cause the individual pilot to do direct damage is 'underpowered'.
Being able to stop any ship dead, and boost their sig radius up as well is lethal.
Normally using webs you have to aim at something and fly towards it and then web it. With the huggin you just have to lock and web. Whatever you web stops dead, 2 90% webs = a 4,500 m/s interceptor going at 45 m/s. Target painting it not only means more damage from missiles, and easier to hit guns, it also means significantly faster locking time for the rest of your gang. Oh, and the Huginn does lock fast.
So what happens with a Huginn in the gang? Whatever he targets stops dead in the water (and incidentally will not be able to warp), takes significantly more damage from guns and missiles, and it all happens a lot faster. It's instant death.
If you aren't satisfied with that, then go fly a stababond on your own and stop whining.
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Dexter Rast
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Posted - 2006.07.01 11:24:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Stamm It seems that anything that doesn't do direct damage, or at least cause the individual pilot to do direct damage is 'underpowered'.
Being able to stop any ship dead, and boost their sig radius up as well is lethal.
Normally using webs you have to aim at something and fly towards it and then web it. With the huggin you just have to lock and web. Whatever you web stops dead, 2 90% webs = a 4,500 m/s interceptor going at 45 m/s. Target painting it not only means more damage from missiles, and easier to hit guns, it also means significantly faster locking time for the rest of your gang. Oh, and the Huginn does lock fast.
So what happens with a Huginn in the gang? Whatever he targets stops dead in the water (and incidentally will not be able to warp), takes significantly more damage from guns and missiles, and it all happens a lot faster. It's instant death.
If you aren't satisfied with that, then go fly a stababond on your own and stop whining.
qft
how anyone can dismiss a web bonus of 30km is beyond me, and painting is much more viable form of EW since the introduction of bad tracking t2 ammo`s, getting a battleships sig over 1km is priceless --------------------------------------------- Please resize your forum signature graphic to be smaller than 24,000 bytes in filesize - Jacques |
Zhaine
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Posted - 2006.07.01 11:37:00 -
[30]
Just to clarify, most T2 ships, including recons and HACs, always inherit their bonuses for cruiser level from their T1 counterpart. So the Target Painter and Turret ROF bonus are staying, as inherited from the bellcoise (unless of course that ship's bonuses get changed).
Not commenting on their effectiveness here, just stating the fact that it's doubtful their gonna get changed. - - - - - - - - - -
Quote: I don't even want a ship, ships are for carebears. Give me a fish bowl for my head (to keep space out) and smear me with lard, then armed with a toasting fork-
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