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BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Unleashed Pestilence
871
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Posted - 2014.07.17 15:59:00 -
[31] - Quote
I've stopped asking for mail bodies on the api, because the security aspect is far more centered on who you know than what you say. The reality is that most of the sections of the api that people complain about being an "invasion of privacy" are the most useful for identifying alts that the applicant may not have told the corp about.
Also, I'm looking for a decent industrial/pve corp to join that does not require an api key. Let me know if you're interested! New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
3054
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Posted - 2014.07.17 16:01:00 -
[32] - Quote
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:I've stopped asking for mail bodies on the api, because the security aspect is far more centered on who you know than what you say. The reality is that most of the sections of the api that people complain about being an "invasion of privacy" are the most useful for identifying alts that the applicant may not have told the corp about. I really like this. .. when everything else is gone .. |
Titania Hrothgar
Nemesis Retribution No Excuse.
83
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Posted - 2014.07.17 16:07:00 -
[33] - Quote
B Scripts wrote:If you had nothing to hide, you wouldn't mind sharing.
/NSA
Fortunately, that's not a true statement :) All the world's a stage and all the men and women are the players. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
5126
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Posted - 2014.07.17 16:08:00 -
[34] - Quote
All this "hurrrrr durrrr spais spais spais" thing would not be a problem when your corporation does not have anything to steal.
Is there some rule I didn't hear about that says once you are in a corporation you have to put all of your crap in a hangar someone else can access? Bring back DEEEEP Space! |
admiral root
Red Galaxy
1428
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Posted - 2014.07.17 16:39:00 -
[35] - Quote
Lots of paranoia in this thread. No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff |
Paranoid Loyd
881
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Posted - 2014.07.17 16:40:00 -
[36] - Quote
admiral root wrote:Lots of paranoia in this thread.
o/ "PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Unleashed Pestilence
873
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Posted - 2014.07.17 17:15:00 -
[37] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:admiral root wrote:Lots of paranoia in this thread. o/ I see what you did thar... New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
Alphea Abbra
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
780
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Posted - 2014.07.17 17:16:00 -
[38] - Quote
Titania Hrothgar wrote:B Scripts wrote:If you had nothing to hide, you wouldn't mind sharing.
/NSA Fortunately, that's not a true statement :) True, and in the real world, it's an actual danger when it is employed. However, EVE is not as real as your social security number, and no data in the API can be compared to it.
Now, you say that you don't want to give out a full API - and the answer to that will probably be "Fair, then we won't recruit you" or "Are there any specific concerns, so that I may alleviate your fears through education and explanation?" from recruiters. Personally, I have no issue with giving a full API. Apart from my very sensual and arousing conversation with Solstice, I have no mails that is worth anyone's time to sift through, and if anyone has to do it by hand, I really pity them.
I'd rather be a member of the corp and alliance that I am, than having the luxury of knowing only CCP can potentially and legally look into my EVE mails. If that luxury is worth more to anyone than the membership of the organisation that asks for an API key, well, simple answer is, don't join it. But then don't complain that you're rejected because of the API thing. It was obviously more important to you than the organisation of your choice.
Can API be abused? Only as long as you allow it to be. You can always delete it, and it will no longer update on their end. |
Nariya Kentaya
Phoenix funds
1461
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Posted - 2014.07.17 19:22:00 -
[39] - Quote
Avern wrote:Any corp who wants information to the level of my communications with others can get lost, it is a violation of privacy of the person you are communicating with.
Say a friend mentions thinking about leaving his corp that is in alliance with yours then your leader goes "Oh better share this with the corp X leader they have a flight risk" meanwhile it was just a shallow temporary thought and the only reason the information ever came to light of day was because of someone having access to a full api and taking things out of context,
That level of sharing is just wrong, Enjoy getting a job that involves even setting foot on federal property, because you wont get it, because "muh privacies" |
Nariya Kentaya
Phoenix funds
1461
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Posted - 2014.07.17 19:24:00 -
[40] - Quote
De'Veldrin wrote:You are in no way required to give anyone any form of an API key at any time for any reason. But we are in no way required to blindly accept you into our corporation.
Speaking as a recruiter, Full APIs are just one tool in the bag of tricks that helps us keep our members assets safe from potential neer do wells. We have a responsibility to our existing members to do whatever is in our power to protect them from the asshats of the cluster. Contrary to what seems to be a popular belief, we are not sitting around reading your evemails in the middle of the night with the curtains closed and our creeper suits on. Frankly, we give less than two fucks who you're talking to on a daily basis. We check it ahead of time because it's one way of weeding out the lazy and the incompetent spies and awoxers before they can be a threat.
There are also some other glorious tools - EveSearch (thanks Chribba!) stores every character you have ever typed on these forums. I just pop over to there enter your name and peruse at my leisure looking for anything that seems inconsistent with your interview. Killboards, evewho, and plain old google are also tools in my box of "Nope, not gonna risk it" during the review proess. I remember one time in a corp I was in, our recruiter hated taking APIs, but he always did. It payed off one day when he was looking WAAAAY back in a characters history and found out it was a Psychotic Monk alt, he even popped into the channel to confirm he was caught. He was a cool dude, too. |
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Nariya Kentaya
Phoenix funds
1461
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Posted - 2014.07.17 19:26:00 -
[41] - Quote
Titania Hrothgar wrote:B Scripts wrote:If you had nothing to hide, you wouldn't mind sharing.
/NSA Fortunately, that's not a true statement :) NSA just looks at facebook, twitter, tumblr nowadays. And checks who all is on furaffinity in there offtime.
(ISD, is it ok that i mentioned that last site as a joke? i eman were all adults here, i doubt anyone could have internet acces and not know to avoid that sight at all costs, ya know?) |
Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
641
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Posted - 2014.07.17 19:31:00 -
[42] - Quote
Most people do it and don't even think about it. EVE Mon anyone?
For most people the API is not a threat. Just don't become a target in EVE and by target I mean, don't ever amount to anything. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5571
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Posted - 2014.07.17 19:35:00 -
[43] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote: NSA just looks at facebook, twitter, tumblr nowadays.
There was some jock Brit partyboy that posted on his FB page that they were going to burn down the U.S. (or whatever the British expression for party till you puke is) and found himself in custody shortly after getting off the plane. I guess Homeland Security and the NSA were coming up for budget review.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Robert Sawyer
NERV Reborn Independent Stars Allied Forces
5
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Posted - 2014.07.17 20:23:00 -
[44] - Quote
API Keys are used by corporations to see what you have been up to recently, to make sure that you're not an awoxer (somebody who infiltrates a rival corporation to cause harm). It's for security protocols n' stuff, but be careful. If your API key falls into the wrong hands (example Goonswarm) you are face-deep in a pile of sh*t. Always hand your API key with caution! Robert Sawyer, industrialist and anti-CFC advocate. |
flakeys
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2314
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Posted - 2014.07.17 20:31:00 -
[45] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:I won't ask you for an API to join my corp, Titania. We do fun activities like forum roams and thread ganks. If you have a knack for annoying people using only your words, then you are what we here at IAAM want. No need for a blaster when a sharp wit will kill with more finesse. Mr Epeen
Mmmm sounds like just my type of corp and chance has it i am corpless ...
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
145
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Posted - 2014.07.17 20:43:00 -
[46] - Quote
Information about past behavior isn't always an indicator of future behavior. In a setting like EvE with disposable, transferable characters, there is absolutely no way of knowing someone's intention when they join a corp. No amount of API checking will tell you that a 3-month-old rookie pilot all alone in their account is really a bittervet looking to cause you issues and willing to pay to do so.
That's why, as in the real world, good security is about access and compartmentalization, not background checks. Assume that your background checks are going to fail, and design your security protocols to handle a determined infiltrator. If you limit the access that any one person has to corp assets, you limit the damage they can do as well. Don't fly stupidly expensive ships in situations where you don't have a GTFO plan. And for Heaven's sake, learn how to PvP because at some point or another in your EvE career you will need to. Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I want to create content, not become content. |
Bohneik Itohn
Amarrian Salvage Gnomes and Associates
522
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Posted - 2014.07.17 20:45:00 -
[47] - Quote
Fun fact: I have yet to see a single third party tool that promises not to use your API or information contained within your API for purposes other than those that you specifically use the tool to engage in, or that they won't provide that information to other third parties.
Just sayin'... If you've ever made an API for anything, assume that everyone has access to all of the information that API provided at the time. Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!-á - Freyya
Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help. |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
145
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Posted - 2014.07.17 20:52:00 -
[48] - Quote
Bohneik Itohn wrote:Fun fact: I have yet to see a single third party tool that promises not to use your API or information contained within your API for purposes other than those that you specifically use the tool to engage in, or that they won't provide that information to other third parties.
Just sayin'... If you've ever made an API for anything, assume that everyone has access to all of the information that API provided at the time. One more reason why the only API keys I give to any tool, site, or (in my past incarnation) prospective corps are either killmail only, or deactivated within 24 hours. Security works both ways.... Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I want to create content, not become content. |
Adira Nictor
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
141
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Posted - 2014.07.17 21:54:00 -
[49] - Quote
Titania Hrothgar wrote:Just out of curiosity, I decided to look into what all is granted by a full API. I did a quick google search, found a link to the powerful tools used by corporations to do their background checks, and was appalled at what I saw.
My assets and in which station I'd placed them, my wallet, all my market transactions, where I go, what I do, even granting full access to every notification and mail I send and receive? A full API literally lets someone watch my every move!
It's creepy!
I've now joined the bandwagon of those who refuse to provide a full API. No one shall have that kind of access to my game play experience. I sent an e-mail to my corp providing them with a new API. I hope they understand. It was just way too creepy a thing to have out there....
*shudder*
Most corps don't want your full api forever. They just want it for the initial background check, after that you can delete it in most cases.
Some corps/alliances require a limited api to access web services like TS3 and forum access.
Saying that, any corp that doesn't require an API and background check is not worth joining, because at some point, an awoxer will be recruited, and your safety will be at risk.
To all those that say API checks don't stop awoxers, this is true. But, it makes it a lot harder for people like me, who do not make a new pilot every time to awox with.
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Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
1392
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Posted - 2014.07.17 22:28:00 -
[50] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote:That's why, as in the real world, good security is about access and compartmentalization, not background checks. Assume that your background checks are going to fail, and design your security protocols to handle a determined infiltrator. If you limit the access that any one person has to corp assets, you limit the damage they can do as well. Don't fly stupidly expensive ships in situations where you don't have a GTFO plan. And for Heaven's sake, learn how to PvP because at some point or another in your EvE career you will need to.
QTF. Proper access management is the most important factor to corp security. Awoxing is a constant and unchanging possibility, all your API checking might diminish is it's probability. Another factor is investment. Someone that has put considerabe effort into building your corp along with you, is less likely to burn the very things they are proud of themselves. Don't put in a public hanger what your corp cannot afford to lose. The old adage of flying what you cannot afford also applies here.
That being said, API data such as your character sheet can be a massive boon to the guys working on your groups doctrine fits and such. Even a limited one is usefull. I've played the villain before and I still do, I'm actively involved in spreading what I know about PVP shenanigans. When a past awox comes up in a recruitment talk I'd be more interested in the story, and share some of my own.
It really comes down to what corp you are running. If you risk billions on a daily basis your security needs to be top notch. If you run a rag-tag band of intermediate SP lowsec PVPers, you can be a bit more lax. I've found exchanging an API for actual roles & titles works fine. Some granularity is in order, corp security isn't that black and white. |
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De'Veldrin
Black Serpent Technologies The Unthinkables
2603
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 12:23:00 -
[51] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote: I remember one time in a corp I was in, our recruiter hated taking APIs, but he always did. It payed off one day when he was looking WAAAAY back in a characters history and found out it was a Psychotic Monk alt, he even popped into the channel to confirm he was caught. He was a cool dude, too.
Honestly, it's a PITA, and I wish I didn't have to do it, but ... such is the state of the cluster that the default setting of any interaction with an unknown person is "This ****** is trying to rob me blind." As my grand mother was fond of saying "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure." MAMBA is recruiting. -áWhen other folks are whining about a lack of content, we go out and create it. The case of Shrodinger's Hotdropper |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
4134
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 13:25:00 -
[52] - Quote
Titania Hrothgar wrote:Just out of curiosity, I decided to look into what all is granted by a full API. I did a quick google search, found a link to the powerful tools used by corporations to do their background checks, and was appalled at what I saw.
My assets and in which station I'd placed them, my wallet, all my market transactions, where I go, what I do, even granting full access to every notification and mail I send and receive? A full API literally lets someone watch my every move!
It's creepy!
I've now joined the bandwagon of those who refuse to provide a full API. No one shall have that kind of access to my game play experience. I sent an e-mail to my corp providing them with a new API. I hope they understand. It was just way too creepy a thing to have out there....
*shudder*
2010 character and it took you 4 years that ticking all those boxes that exactly say what acces they grant to be that intrusive.
Fail. Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6231
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Posted - 2014.07.18 15:07:00 -
[53] - Quote
J'Poll wrote:Titania Hrothgar wrote:Just out of curiosity, I decided to look into what all is granted by a full API. I did a quick google search, found a link to the powerful tools used by corporations to do their background checks, and was appalled at what I saw.
My assets and in which station I'd placed them, my wallet, all my market transactions, where I go, what I do, even granting full access to every notification and mail I send and receive? A full API literally lets someone watch my every move!
It's creepy!
I've now joined the bandwagon of those who refuse to provide a full API. No one shall have that kind of access to my game play experience. I sent an e-mail to my corp providing them with a new API. I hope they understand. It was just way too creepy a thing to have out there....
*shudder* 2010 character and it took you 4 years that ticking all those boxes that exactly say what acces they grant to be that intrusive. Fail. Quite terrible. ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Titania Hrothgar
Nemesis Retribution No Excuse.
83
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 17:27:00 -
[54] - Quote
J'Poll wrote:
2010 character and it took you 4 years that ticking all those boxes that exactly say what acces they grant to be that intrusive.
Fail.
I've played 4 months out of those 4 years. I feel I've no reason to explain my short time of actual gameplay so I won't.
Proof that a background check doesn't tell you everything ;) All the world's a stage and all the men and women are the players. |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Unleashed Pestilence
878
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 18:23:00 -
[55] - Quote
Titania Hrothgar wrote:J'Poll wrote:
2010 character and it took you 4 years that ticking all those boxes that exactly say what acces they grant to be that intrusive.
Fail.
I've played 4 months out of those 4 years. I feel I've no reason to explain my short time of actual gameplay so I won't. Proof that a background check doesn't tell you everything ;) Just because a tool is not perfect does not make it useless. New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
548
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Posted - 2014.07.19 03:25:00 -
[56] - Quote
Ocih wrote:Most people do it and don't even think about it. EVE Mon anyone?
For most people the API is not a threat. Just don't become a target in EVE and by target I mean, don't ever amount to anything.
Eve Mon has access to a limited API that has skill info and not much else, hell you can see pretty much all that info on http://eveboard.com/pilot/Chainsaw_plankton You can trust me, I have a monocole |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6231
|
Posted - 2014.07.19 03:51:00 -
[57] - Quote
Robert Sawyer wrote:If your API key falls into the wrong hands (example Goonswarm) you are face-deep in a pile of sh*t. Always hand your API key with caution! It's over. ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
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