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DHB WildCat
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
391
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Posted - 2014.07.17 15:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
Missiles.... and Missile disruptors.
So missiles are in a really weird place right now.
These topics are for the ammo only. Not the launchers!
FIRST THINGS FIRST! GET RID OF THE STUPID KINETIC ONLY BONUS TO SHIPS AND GIVE THEM A 5% ALL DAMAGE TYPES LIKE TURRET SHIPS GET! (now before anyone gets mad.... minmatar have selectable damage types, drones have selectable damage types and all get similar damage bonus..... Also give amarr selectable damage too, but thats a different discussion.)
Now on to missiles
Light missiles..... are awesome. hit everything and do decent damage. Maybe reduce their damage a little. However overall they are in a good place.
Rockets - Again very good, do there job and hit most targets well.
Heavy Missiles - OMG super nerf bat destroyed these things. You need to give them their range back at expense of hitting small targets. They are afterall the long range missile type for cruiser hulls.
HAMS - I like hams, I think they are okay. 5% to all damge types would really fix any holes they have.
Cruise Missiles - In a very good place they are fine!
Torps - OMFG what a joke! These suck. My suggestion ..... reduce the range of them to say.... 10-15km, but also let them hit smaller targets. They are supposed to have a big boom that rocks the world around them, let the smaller ships that get too close feel the PAIN!
Now for something that I cannot honestly believe doesnt already exist! Missile Disruption Modules.
They would act the same as Tracking Disruptors but differently at the same time....
So it would make no sense to have the mod reduce flight time. Whats it doing sucking fuel out of the missile? No I dont think so.... This is what I propose. Make it chance based like ECM. It would have a 15 second activation time... All missiles in flight in that time from the ship firing at the ship with with the Missile Disruptor would be subject to a RNG game. If the Missile disruptor loses the missiles continue nothing happening as they slam into your ship. Now however if the Missile Disruptor wins then those missiles in flight would have a "hacked" computer guidence and hilariously and recklessly fly off in random directions (just like fireworks... which their program could be used to help with this) not hitting their intended target.
Some skills that could affect the disrputors could be..... a disruptor specific skill to fit and use module (new skill). Hacking - would increase strength of module. Advanced Hacking (new skill) as a secondary power boost to the module.
Even if you dont like the RNG idea..... we really need a missile disruption module.
Wild
Now these are just one idea of many possibilities, so please feel free to give more ideas community.... the more ideas the better! |
Karash Amerius
Sutoka
187
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Posted - 2014.07.17 16:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
High slot anti-missile module has been suggested plenty of times...defenders just don't work well enough.
The RAH is a pretty big deal verses a missile user in PVP, but it hasn't found the traction needed to be popular, and obviously it sucks on anything below BC.
**completely agree with removing the KN only bonuses. I think we can add flavor to the ships in other ways. Karash Amerius Operative, Sutoka |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
936
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Posted - 2014.07.17 17:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
They should rework ECM to impact the accuracy of missiles. You could even script it to have a missile counter, and a drone counter.
Base Mod: Reduces Drone Bandwidth and Missile Guidance by 37.5%
Missile Script: increases bonus to reduction of Missile Guidance by 100% (75% total) (-37.5% Drone Bandwidth reduction) effectively a 75% reduction to Missile Accuracy Drone Scrip increases bonus to reduction of Drone Bandwidth by 100% (75% total) (-37.5% Missile Guidance reduction) effectively a 75% reduction to number of drones capable of being fielded.
ECM hull bonuses are then stacked on top of these base numbers.
ECCM/Projected ECCM still function as they do now to defence against ECM ECM is still calculated against a ships sensor strength and is a "coin flip" mechanic
*Drones above the cap from a reduction would be considered abandoned and you would need to reconnect to them after the ECM cycle. |
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories Vertical.
658
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Posted - 2014.07.17 20:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
Personally I'm a big fan of the kinetic limitation of some vessels like the cerb. Liking it on the Cerb for the cerb's performance even with that limitation - opening it up to all sorts of damage would be a tad to much to me. Just thinking of cool RLM cerb with LSE/XLASB and what, no kinetic limitation? Insane!
Kinetic is also trademarked to pure caldari, guristas are sitting with kin/therm already, the talwar as the minmatar-missile-pilot-ship is limited to explosive and bombers are limited to their racial damage. I'm really convinced that the current choice keeps especially the higher-end missileboats from doing a sentrydomi on us when in a bigger fleet. (herpherp 90km RLMs in a skirmishgang without kin-limitation, huginn-supported HML-cerb-blobs without accuracy issues cause DEM PAINTERS, let's shoot that ishtarball from 120+, with explosive! - arguably the inability to really take on gallente with caldari missiles is a fair point <.<)
For the damage-type limitation, I'm all for it.
Agree on lights/rockets. Range for both are extremely generous given what they're supposed to be - scramkite a destroyer with rages and still sit in range at 8.5k, shooting out to 45k with navy lights and 60ish with rangebonus for lights is just ridiculous though. Range for frigate sized missiles needs some tweaking.
Heavies barely work without serpentis-webs and a golem painting for you, so meh. Tried them only a few times though since HAMs easily reach out to linked pointrange. Heavies surely lack a niche by now. They do unimpressive volley damage, the missiles are slow and inaccurate and the resulting dps is laughable... Would prefer heavies with half RoF and twice the volley-dps, flying faster and shorter resulting in more range. Also, the net dps needs tweaking to get in line with beams, artillery and rails again.
Torps are pretty cool. Insane volley, normally selectable damage cause of the ships you mount them on but totally useless without a phoons application bonus, dualweb and paints. Can toast a painted, doublewebbed active HAC in 3-4 volleys using a standard crash - but then you got 3-4 mods, drugs and a hullbonus working in your favor to apply most damage. Then he uses snakes, halos or links and you're back to square one :|
"I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
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Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
456
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Posted - 2014.07.17 20:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
I'd have no issues with TD for missiles if........missile damage calcs get overhauled to be like turrets.
Someone will say they always hit. True...and if the calc's variables are not good this always hit is not the greener grass they make it out to be. Crap damage 100% of the time is not that great. I use all weapons. I know from turrets I may get crap or even missed shots. Also know I also get in those big money shots in to have it come out in the wash to some degree. I'd be looking at arty for example. They can be a crap shoot. When the dice are cold you get a fair share of bad rolls. However when the dice warm up....they can tag and tag hard more often.
The loss of kinetic to more universal I can see as well. CCP seems to be coming off this a little with rattller's redo bonus of kinetic and thermal but they need to be budged a bit more for the other 2 types. TBH I'd even take caveats like missiles get split damage here (as the opponents of this idea often bring this up). I'd give up 100% say 100% kinetic on scourge for a damage split for a say 60/40 kin/xyz split (percentages could be ironed out later ofc). So it be more like projectile ammo or hybrids. Its there split imo that has ccp more agreeable to the 5% damage so common to turret damage.
Amarr would need some love as op says...but this another thread as they also said. |
Odithia
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
48
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Posted - 2014.07.17 20:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
DHB WildCat wrote: FIRST THINGS FIRST! GET RID OF THE STUPID KINETIC ONLY BONUS TO SHIPS AND GIVE THEM A 5% ALL DAMAGE TYPES LIKE TURRET SHIPS GET!
Amarr and Minmatar ship have All Damage missile bonus. Just saying...
They usualy are smaller bonus though |
Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS X
166
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Posted - 2014.07.17 21:38:00 -
[7] - Quote
I played wow for 8 years at the beginning of the game real differences existed between the various classes and people complained. The developers eventually began to give into this pressure and now the various classes are substantially more homogenous then before and the game has suffered for it.
Torps are supposed to be slow big bombs that struggle to hit small targets well, their range and damage application is perfect as it currently exists.
We don't need and should not ask that the missile systems act increasingly like the turret systems. We have 3 turret systems already and making the missiles basically into turrets with a different firing graphic is a horrible idea.
Also, we need real differences between the turret systems as well and im dead against changing the damage type restrictions of the amarr although I do think that they shouldnt need an assistant boosting them to just sustain their damage application and would be in favor of reducing their cap needs. Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1817
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Posted - 2014.07.18 00:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
caldari actually have less kinetic only bonuses than omni bonuses. They also do more damage than other races missile ships that get omni bonuses.
If caldari all got omni damage bonuses, then expect them to also lose launcher hard points here or there for reduced dps. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
250
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Posted - 2014.07.18 01:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
In the current metagame where Minmatar is almost completely unflyable in general other than about 3 ships, and the Ishtar completely dominates everything to an absurd extent, Kinetic is the worst damage type by miles. If you're shooting missiles where everything but damage type is the same, avoid kinetic like the plague. Pretty much every Caldari ship with a kin missile bonus should basically ignore it, EM or Explosive will almost always do more DPS. |
Lothros Andastar
The Minutemen The Bastion
162
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Posted - 2014.07.18 02:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
Something Something Legacy Code Something Something Dark Side Something Something Psssssssssssssssh |
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Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
457
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Posted - 2014.07.18 07:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:In the current metagame where Minmatar is almost completely unflyable in general other than about 3 ships, and the Ishtar completely dominates everything to an absurd extent, Kinetic is the worst damage type by miles. If you're shooting missiles where everything but damage type is the same, avoid kinetic like the plague. Pretty much every Caldari ship with a kin missile bonus should basically ignore it, EM or Explosive will almost always do more DPS.
this basically.
One of my issues with kinetic only is it kind of hinders some variety in missile meta. Roam/fleet of kinetic ships rolling...what ever shall we spec resists for? Projectiles and hybrids you get some meta. I know I packed at least 3-4 ammo's for SOP know what the plan is for the night runs. If lots of unknowns...maybe I'd pack a few hundred rounds of more ammo not used normally just in case a need actually came up for it.
You can try to spice missiles up running off bonus ammo. I did. But you aren't getting even half the roam doing the same thing I found to add some tactical complexity of guessing the ammo they will use. IOut come the tables, the graphs, etc showing how even if high resists the kinetic is better to some and they stay scourge ammo.
Well that I think some missile chucklers were lazy and cba to swap ammo's out. |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
832
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Posted - 2014.07.18 08:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:In the current metagame where Minmatar is almost completely unflyable in general other than about 3 ships, and the Ishtar completely dominates everything to an absurd extent, Kinetic is the worst damage type by miles. If you're shooting missiles where everything but damage type is the same, avoid kinetic like the plague. Pretty much every Caldari ship with a kin missile bonus should basically ignore it, EM or Explosive will almost always do more DPS.
Definitely seems to have gone that way. Add either an additional 10% explosive damage or 10%EM damage as a side effect of the detonation of kinetic missiles and it would still keep things as they are attempting, but bring things a little back into line while still keeping the flavour, and still gives the option of switching to EM/explosive for maximum effect and ignoring the bonus. And as you say,shooting into a strong kinetic resist is not exactly the best choice.
This suggestion, at least gives you the choice, to decide whether the reload time, is worth switching, rather than it almost ALWAYS is worth switching.
PvE is more predictable, and often, but not always, it is worth staying with the bonus. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Caleb Seremshur
The Atomic Fallout Kids
331
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Posted - 2014.07.18 09:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
Zan Shiro wrote:I'd have no issues with TD for missiles if........missile damage calcs get overhauled to be like turrets.
Someone will say they always hit. True...and if the calc's variables are not good this always hit is not the greener grass they make it out to be. Crap damage 100% of the time is not that great. I use all weapons. I know from turrets I may get crap or even missed shots. Also know I also get in those big money shots in to have it come out in the wash to some degree. I'd be looking at arty for example. They can be a crap shoot. When the dice are cold you get a fair share of bad rolls. However when the dice warm up....they can tag and tag hard more often.
The loss of kinetic to more universal I can see as well. CCP seems to be coming off this a little with rattller's redo bonus of kinetic and thermal but they need to be budged a bit more for the other 2 types. TBH I'd even take caveats like missiles get split damage here (as the opponents of this idea often bring this up). I'd give up 100% say 100% kinetic on scourge for a damage split for a say 60/40 kin/xyz split (percentages could be ironed out later ofc). So it be more like projectile ammo or hybrids. Its their split imo that has ccp more agreeable to the 5% damage so common to turret damage.
Amarr would need some love as op says...but this another thread as they also said.
Kinetic and explosive are the only valid types really. An armour tankers nightmare. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=348015 T3 OHing subsystem review and rebalance https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=290346 LP faction weapon store costs rebalancing
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Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
484
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Posted - 2014.07.18 09:28:00 -
[14] - Quote
First make it so 1 smartbomb doesn't effectively disable a full volley of missiles.
Missiles need more HP and defenders need to do more damage.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
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Emma Muutaras
State War Academy Caldari State
21
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Posted - 2014.07.18 10:02:00 -
[15] - Quote
while i agree with selectable damage types and even which the current state of missiles for the most part was kinda hoping you would have had a great idea how to fix the all but worthless defender missile launcher/missile.
lets face it ccp have all the statistics for every module used i would we willing to bet uber over priced storyline/officer mods get more usage than the defended missile system . simply put defenders need a drastic buff a rework or removed from game. |
Humang
Sefem Velox Swift Angels Alliance
75
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Posted - 2014.07.19 10:43:00 -
[16] - Quote
I remember an idea someone came up with not to long ago: (I'm sorry I forgot the individuals name )
Instead of having a bonus to kinetic damage, all missiles will instead have a small amount of kinetic damage added when fired from a ship with a kinetic bonus. (eg. 4% additional kinetic damage to missiles per level)
Nova Light Missile that does 100 explosive damage will also do an additional 20 kinetic damage. Mjolnir Rage Torpedo that does 500 em damage will also do an additional 100 kinetic damage. Granted there would be a lot of refinement required to balance it, but it would let people select their damage type more freely AND keep the caldari kinetic flavour.
Again, it was someone else's idea and I don't want to take any credit for it. AFK Cloaking Thread summary - Provided by Paikis
-á-á-á-á-á - Witty Comment Here - |
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