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DHB WildCat
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
392
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Posted - 2014.07.17 17:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
Missiles - All 4 damage types
Drones - All four damage types
Projectiles - All four damage types.
So what do we think..... should we give hybrids and lasers all four damage types? Or should we make missiles, drones, and projectiles have only 2 damage types as well? Or leave everything alone?
Curious to hear what you think |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
143
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Posted - 2014.07.17 17:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
tl;dr: Leave things alone.
Let me point out an alternative scenario:
Quote:Missiles - require reloads
Projectiles - requires reloads
Hybrids - require reloads
So what do we think..... should we give lasers and drones ammunition? Or should we make missiles, hybrids, and projectiles require no ammunition as well? Or leave everything alone?
EvE is about variability and making choices. Things shouldn't all be the same, otherwise there are no real choices. Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I want to create content, not become content. |
Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
52
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Posted - 2014.07.17 17:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
DHB WildCat wrote:Missiles - All 4 damage types
Drones - All four damage types
Projectiles - All four damage types.
So what do we think..... should we give hybrids and lasers all four damage types? Or should we make missiles, drones, and projectiles have only 2 damage types as well? Or leave everything alone?
Curious to hear what you think
Example of 2 damage types all weapons....
Missiles - Kinetic / Explosive -since they hit with force and explode.... make sense.
Drones - Gallente weapon for the most part ... caldari are enemy thus is would make sense to use EM/ Therm but that steps on the toes of amarr, so EM / Exp for exploding magnetic rounds?
Projectiles - Enemy is amarr, would make sense their damage does Therm, and secondary damage maybe Explosive.
Hybrids - Are fine Kin /Therm
Lasers - Extreme heat using light waves / photons. Thermal / EM
This way no two weapon types do the same damage. Please remeber its just an example.
Projectiles only have 3 damage types for short range ammo, the small amount of kinetic in each doesn't count.
Lasers have infinite ammo and instant reload. Hybrids have 5 seconds reload and greater damage or better range. Every thing has pros and cons. No homogenization of eve.
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Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
127
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Posted - 2014.07.17 17:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
I never understood why missiles are kinetic damage while projectiles are explosive. Logically speaking, it should be the other way around. Missiles explode. Projectiles smack into their targets. Maybe there was some racial balance consideration at play here.
Yes, some projectiles actually use explosive rounds but most do not. All missiles, however, have an explosive payload to deal damage to the target. What missiles are solid cylinders of steel without a payload? Therefore it should be switched. |
Goldensaver
Lom Corporation Brothers of Tangra
406
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Posted - 2014.07.17 17:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
First of all, I'm wondering if you switched from the number to the word breaking consistency just to annoy people.
Second of all: Projectiles aren't fully selectable, though they do get about 70-90% pure damage of choice. Drones also aren't completely because each damage type has a specific role. You won't get good frigate chasers in Thermal damage, nor will your sentries hit solidly at 100km with Thermal.
So because of this I am of the belief that rather than having high selection, I'd say that there's a gradient going along here. It goes from missiles at fully selectable, to Drones at fully selectable, but limited roles to each damage type, to Projectiles at limited selectable, to Hybrids and Lasers at locked damage. This causes me to believe they are balanced against each other. With that belief I'd say we leave things alone for the most part.
However, I would like to see a small change in the damage values of various ammo types to allow a bit more choice between your two primary damages in Hybrids and Lasers. Lasers are for the most part kept to EM with a dash of Thermal. Hybrids are primarily Kinetic with a lesser value of Thermal. I'd like to see some ammo changed up to be copies of other types with a bit more of a stress on a single damage type. Perhaps change AM from a 58/42 kin/therm to more of a 70/30 and make another that's the same, but with the typing switched around. Same idea applies to Lasers.
I know this would still leave them behind with only being able to choose between their two damage types, but it would allow a bit more of a focus within their selection. |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
143
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Posted - 2014.07.17 17:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:I never understood why missiles are kinetic damage while projectiles are explosive. Logically speaking, it should be the other way around. Missiles explode. Projectiles smack into their targets. Maybe there was some racial balance consideration at play here.
Yes, some projectiles actually use explosive rounds but most do not. All missiles, however, have an explosive payload to deal damage to the target. What missiles are solid cylinders of steel without a payload? Therefore it should be switched.
Modern armor-piercing anti-tank missiles are definitely based on kinetic damage. Even though they rely on explosive warheads, those warheads are often shape charges propelling high density penetrators through the armor of the target. That would be "kinetic". A regular blast/frag warhead would be "explosive" and a napalm/pyrotechnic warhead would be "thermal". There's no real-world equivalent of an "EM" warhead yet, but it'd probably be a miniature EMP.
Much of the same technology is used in cannon projectiles as well, so it makes sense that, in EvE, both missiles and projectiles have flexible damage types. Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I want to create content, not become content. |
Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
641
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Posted - 2014.07.17 17:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
The damage types are fine. I say that as a primary Amarr pilot who knows Lasers are last in line for preferred weapons in PvP due to the EM primary.
If they were going to give damage a once over I'd like to see them add stat effect and residual to the various damages. If your ship gets hit by an artillery shell it should impact your velocity and orbital. An EM laser with thermal properties should mess up all kinds of systems on the ship long after you have been hit.
They could offset it with the now, detrimental Tactical Shield Manipulation and while I don't see it coming any time soon, deep impact changes through weapon and damage type would be where I would rather see them take change. |
Yee Ant
Indus Pirotech
2
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Posted - 2014.07.17 18:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:I never understood why missiles are kinetic damage while projectiles are explosive. Logically speaking, it should be the other way around. Missiles explode. Projectiles smack into their targets. Maybe there was some racial balance consideration at play here.
Yes, some projectiles actually use explosive rounds but most do not. All missiles, however, have an explosive payload to deal damage to the target. What missiles are solid cylinders of steel without a payload? Therefore it should be switched.
Minimater scientists (if you can call them that) decided it would be cheaper to manufacture using low cost minerals for the shell casings, and then just fill up with any explosive chemical lying around. This had the unexpected result of producing shells that had brittle casings but strong explosive cores perfect for popping shiny Amarr slavers.
The one thing I am curious about is why the guns firign the projectiles look so "normal" and gun like. After all, their ships look so wierd and scrappy. |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
143
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Posted - 2014.07.17 18:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ocih wrote:The damage types are fine. I say that as a primary Amarr pilot who knows Lasers are last in line for preferred weapons in PvP due to the EM primary.
For ship-to-ship combat maybe. But for long POS seiges, lasers (and drones) are king. Not worrying about reloads means you have more people shooting and fewer people hauling ammo. Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I want to create content, not become content. |
Rayzilla Zaraki
Tandokuno
245
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Posted - 2014.07.17 18:52:00 -
[10] - Quote
In how many different sections of the forum and in how many different ways are you going to whine about the same thing?
Close thread due to duplication, biomass author. Gate campers are just Carebears with anger issues. |
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IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1021
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Posted - 2014.07.17 20:33:00 -
[11] - Quote
Rayzilla Zaraki wrote:In how many different sections of the forum and in how many different ways are you going to whine about the same thing?
Close thread due to duplication, biomass author.
The only thing worse than one "Lets make all weapons the same" thread is someone spamming the forms with multiple threads about it...
How about we give lasers flight time... Or missiles falloff? |
Atomeon
The Scope Gallente Federation
8
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Posted - 2014.07.17 21:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
How about the ship bonuses are like: "5% with large turrets per lvl". And leave the pilot to chose his/her guns. Abbadon with blasters ^^
I m joking just leave the things how they are. |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
129
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Posted - 2014.07.17 23:33:00 -
[13] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:I never understood why missiles are kinetic damage while projectiles are explosive. Logically speaking, it should be the other way around. Missiles explode. Projectiles smack into their targets. Maybe there was some racial balance consideration at play here.
Yes, some projectiles actually use explosive rounds but most do not. All missiles, however, have an explosive payload to deal damage to the target. What missiles are solid cylinders of steel without a payload? Therefore it should be switched. Modern armor-piercing anti-tank missiles are definitely based on kinetic damage. Even though they rely on explosive warheads, those warheads are often shape charges propelling high density penetrators through the armor of the target. That would be "kinetic". A regular blast/frag warhead would be "explosive" and a napalm/pyrotechnic warhead would be "thermal". There's no real-world equivalent of an "EM" warhead yet, but it'd probably be a miniature EMP. Much of the same technology is used in cannon projectiles as well, so it makes sense that, in EvE, both missiles and projectiles have flexible damage types. Alright, perfect response! |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
537
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 01:08:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ocih wrote:The damage types are fine. I say that as a primary Amarr pilot who knows Lasers are last in line for preferred weapons in PvP due to the EM primary.
If they were going to give damage a once over I'd like to see them add stat effect and residual to the various damages. If your ship gets hit by an artillery shell it should impact your velocity and orbital. An EM laser with thermal properties should mess up all kinds of systems on the ship long after you have been hit.
They could offset it with the now, detrimental Tactical Shield Manipulation and while I don't see it coming any time soon, deep impact changes through weapon and damage type would be where I would rather see them take change. Lasers are fine in PVP because:
1. PVP ships are omni tanked and damage types don't matter much. 2. Scorch. 3. Instant ammo swapping. |
Lady Naween
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
531
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 02:04:00 -
[15] - Quote
no dont make all weapon systems the same! stop posting all over about it. it is a terrible idea |
Liam Inkuras
Top Belt Heroes
1160
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 02:07:00 -
[16] - Quote
Generic idea thread about making all weapons generic is generic. I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone |
Dally Lama
Republic University Minmatar Republic
83
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 04:30:00 -
[17] - Quote
Selectable damage types are too strategic to remove. Some people specifically choose Minnie because they want that advantage. Nothing wrong with that IMO.
So then why don't hybrids and lasers get the same treatment?
Hybrids do more DPS, at least blasters, so the lack of damage choice is good balance. Perhaps small/large rails need a slight damage buff.
Lasers it's the same story for large. I've only flown large laser ... and the beams are hitting for immense damage at decently long ranges. To pick damage type at that point... way too OP. New Fitting Window | Distances above 10km | Maximums for buy orders |
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ISD Tyrozan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
400
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Posted - 2014.07.18 13:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
Thread has been moved to Features & Ideas Discussion. ISD Tyrozan Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department @ISDTyrozan | @ISD_CCL |
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Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
997
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 13:25:00 -
[19] - Quote
have you looked at projectile ammo recently? Yes, I can technically deal at least some of any damage type i want, but I'm also dealing about 25-40% of another damage sometimes in the completely opposite side of the spectrum. Theres also no short range/high damage for kinetic. You have to to either use reduced damage long range or barrage, which is mostly explosive. Go look at EMP, over 25% of the damage is in explosive. Doesn't really help when you're trying to select a certain end of the spectrum now does it?
Only true damage selection is with missiles and drones.
So, no. The only thing wrong with lasers is not damage related and hybrids are working pretty well. |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
148
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 14:20:00 -
[20] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Alright, perfect response! Being a rocket scientist has its upsides. Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I want to create content, not become content. |
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Arla Sarain
41
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Posted - 2014.07.18 14:51:00 -
[21] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote:
EvE is about variability and making choices. Things shouldn't all be the same, otherwise there are no real choices.
Until the only 2 choices you have is to pick something that wins or lose for not picking IT.
So much for choices... |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1819
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 15:23:00 -
[22] - Quote
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote: Lasers are fine in PVP because:
1. PVP ships are omni tanked and damage types don't matter much. 2. Scorch. 3. Instant ammo swapping.
^ EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Dhaq
Anonymous Posters
25
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Posted - 2014.07.18 15:40:00 -
[23] - Quote
I think everyone understands where you stand on this by now:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=359063 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=359065 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=358981 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=359084
At this point it is just redundant trolling.
And they say NPC alts trash up the place. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
619
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 15:46:00 -
[24] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:I never understood why missiles are kinetic damage while projectiles are explosive. Logically speaking, it should be the other way around. Missiles explode. Projectiles smack into their targets. Maybe there was some racial balance consideration at play here.
Yes, some projectiles actually use explosive rounds but most do not. All missiles, however, have an explosive payload to deal damage to the target. What missiles are solid cylinders of steel without a payload? Therefore it should be switched. Modern armor-piercing anti-tank missiles are definitely based on kinetic damage. Even though they rely on explosive warheads, those warheads are often shape charges propelling high density penetrators through the armor of the target. That would be "kinetic". A regular blast/frag warhead would be "explosive" and a napalm/pyrotechnic warhead would be "thermal". There's no real-world equivalent of an "EM" warhead yet, but it'd probably be a miniature EMP. Much of the same technology is used in cannon projectiles as well, so it makes sense that, in EvE, both missiles and projectiles have flexible damage types.
I thought modern AT rounds were either tungsten dart (Pure kinetic) Or DU (kinetic with thermal from Uranium being pyrophoric). The warhead in a shaped charge round isn't the explosive, that is simply a propellant to produce a hypervelocity glass dart of (usually) copper.
The only explosive warheads still in use are squash head rounds and I think only the British army routinely carry them. |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
150
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 16:38:00 -
[25] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:I thought modern AT rounds were either tungsten dart (Pure kinetic) Or DU (kinetic with thermal from Uranium being pyrophoric). The warhead in a shaped charge round isn't the explosive, that is simply a propellant to produce a hypervelocity glass dart of (usually) copper.
The only explosive warheads still in use are squash head rounds and I think only the British army routinely carry them.
EM could be from microwave/xray type warheads I guess... Smaller caliber cannons (40mm and below) will fire high density penetrators directly. Larger rounds (Main Battle Tank guns) will use shape charge rounds to accelerate the penetrator at impact or sub-caliber pentrators with discarding sabot. (Titanium Sabot ring a bell anyone?) I think the sabot rounds are more common, but both are (or at least have been) used.
Missiles generally don't travel fast enough to fully capitalize on the kinetic potential of high density penetrators, so they still rely on the shape charges to accelerate it just prior to impact (or use HEAT rounds and do away with the solid penetrator and use a stream of hyper-sonic metal instead).
Side note: While double-checking myself, I found this interesting tidbit on Explosively Formed Penetrators. Now that's some groovy boom boom. Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I want to create content, not become content. |
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
484
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Posted - 2014.07.18 16:44:00 -
[26] - Quote
You again.
It's the 4th or 5th thread you made about this.
Did genos lower standards so much they let people like you stay now?
First whine about missiles being kinetic and now hybrids and lasers.
Next you say projectiles need nerf and have too much dps? Or wait, buff these too because they can't do kinetic well?
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
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Rayzilla Zaraki
Tandokuno
251
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Posted - 2014.07.18 18:59:00 -
[27] - Quote
ISD Tyrozan wrote:Thread has been moved to Features & Ideas Discussion.
Should have been moved into oblivion. Gate campers are just Carebears with anger issues. |
twit brent
Black Anvil Industries SpaceMonkey's Alliance
9
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Posted - 2014.07.18 20:12:00 -
[28] - Quote
Leave them alone, but also give the revelation a damage bonus. I want one soo bad but its sucks so much. |
Ellendras Silver
Ordo Drakonis Nulli Secunda
148
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Posted - 2014.07.18 21:59:00 -
[29] - Quote
a laser with explosive damage makes as much sense as swim fins on a cat. Carpe noctem |
Bohneik Itohn
Amarrian Salvage Gnomes and Associates
538
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Posted - 2014.07.18 22:59:00 -
[30] - Quote
Ellendras Silver wrote:a laser with explosive damage makes as much sense as swim fins on a cat.
Don't underestimate the awesomes within Science's pocket of many tricks.
But that isn't a free license to muck with my Beams of Beauteous Burning, CCP.
Lasers are fine.
Hybrids?... Ehh, I don't know.... Every time I try to think about them this I never get past this image in my mind. Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!-á - Freyya
Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help. |
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