Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
347
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 04:48:00 -
[31] - Quote
I got 918.3 from the launchers using faction upgrades and 5% implants. That is the ingame number and it does match in EFT. No booster alt. |
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
59
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 05:50:00 -
[32] - Quote
Ireland VonVicious wrote:I got 918.3 from the launchers using faction upgrades and 5% implants. That is the ingame number and it does match in EFT. No booster alt.
How much on a 350m/s 320sig battleship? :) |
Val Karan
Knights of the Empire Northern Associates.
0
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 11:26:00 -
[33] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote:Ireland VonVicious wrote:I got 918.3 from the launchers using faction upgrades and 5% implants. That is the ingame number and it does match in EFT. No booster alt. How much on a 350m/s 320sig battleship? :) Little.
Rattle with t2 cruise is aweful against Angel Battleships for that reason. And it's not much better against regular 400m sigs with slower speeds.
Use faction cruise and 1 target painter, that will apply max dps against any battleship you find in missions.
With maxed skills, implants and 1 tp, t2 just about breaks even in applied dps. 2nd tp will max out dps against some target while moving. Orbiting battleships are slower and will be hit for higher dps, but due to having 2 weapon systems you really run out of midslots to tank a bunch of orbiting NPC battleships. Just assume approach-speed battleships for all your dps calculations.
The whole 1600dps rattle thing is a bit of a myth. You'll only apply that dps if you bring a targetpainter and webber (on a second ship). That said, with faction missiles it does 1400 - and those actually apply. |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
156
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 11:53:00 -
[34] - Quote
Val Karan wrote:Barton Breau wrote:Ireland VonVicious wrote:I got 918.3 from the launchers using faction upgrades and 5% implants. That is the ingame number and it does match in EFT. No booster alt. How much on a 350m/s 320sig battleship? :) Little. Rattle with t2 cruise is aweful against Angel Battleships for that reason. And it's not much better against regular 400m sigs with slower speeds. Use faction cruise and 1 target painter, that will apply max dps against any battleship you find in missions. With maxed skills, implants and 1 tp, t2 just about breaks even in applied dps. 2nd tp will max out dps against some target while moving. Orbiting battleships are slower and will be hit for higher dps, but due to having 2 weapon systems you really run out of midslots to tank a bunch of orbiting NPC battleships. Just assume approach-speed battleships for all your dps calculations. The whole 1600dps rattle thing is a bit of a myth. You'll only apply that dps if you bring a targetpainter and webber (on a second ship). That said, with faction missiles it does 1400 - and those actually apply. That battleship has much higher sig radius than the explosion radius of fury missiles (with rigors), so where is the issue? Don't they also get signature bloom since they approach with a MWD active? A sig bloom cancels out any issue with speed. |
Val Karan
Knights of the Empire Northern Associates.
0
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 12:26:00 -
[35] - Quote
yay.
the forum ate my detailed reply.
short version: fury: 2tp http://i.imgur.com/89LA3R4.png 1tp http://i.imgur.com/xrZXLjX.png 0tp http://i.imgur.com/44xxVF2.png
navy: 1tp http://i.imgur.com/l8KDDvh.png 0tp http://i.imgur.com/JB2Gr7J.png
kronos 420m sig 255m/s machariel 350m sig 310m/s
the fit only tanks for 6minutes and that's without a prop module, the buffer is large but applying your dps is still vital in longer missions with continuous incoming dps like blockade. |
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
59
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 13:35:00 -
[36] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote: That battleship has much higher sig radius than the explosion radius of fury missiles (with rigors), so where is the issue? Don't they also get signature bloom since they approach with a MWD active? A sig bloom cancels out any issue with speed.
The missile damage formula is not that simple, that is why people look at damage graphs.
As for the MWD, are we sure the rats use MWD to double their orbit speed when approaching?
But im not saying it would not simplify things, if they did.
|
Val Karan
Knights of the Empire Northern Associates.
0
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 13:49:00 -
[37] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote: That battleship has much higher sig radius than the explosion radius of fury missiles (with rigors), so where is the issue? Don't they also get signature bloom since they approach with a MWD active? A sig bloom cancels out any issue with speed.
The missile damage formula is not that simple, that is why people look at damage graphs. As for the MWD, are we sure the rats use MWD to double their orbit speed when approaching? But im not saying it would not simplify things, if they did. Nope, they use afterburners, or missiles would hit them for max damage when they're going at cruise speed. Basic MWD would x5 their base speed, not double it, too, and we can assume rats adhere to basic rules of eve.
Rats in belts might be using MWDs, though. They're flying much faster. |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
156
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 15:17:00 -
[38] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote: That battleship has much higher sig radius than the explosion radius of fury missiles (with rigors), so where is the issue? Don't they also get signature bloom since they approach with a MWD active? A sig bloom cancels out any issue with speed.
The missile damage formula is not that simple, that is why people look at damage graphs. If NPCs don't use MWD, its news to me, I've seen it mentioned here that frigs do, and that's why its so much easier to hit them when they aggro you then when they're sitting at 50km picking their nose with no velocity at first warpin. |
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
59
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 16:00:00 -
[39] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Barton Breau wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote: That battleship has much higher sig radius than the explosion radius of fury missiles (with rigors), so where is the issue? Don't they also get signature bloom since they approach with a MWD active? A sig bloom cancels out any issue with speed.
The missile damage formula is not that simple, that is why people look at damage graphs. If NPCs don't use MWD, its news to me, I've seen it mentioned here that frigs do, and that's why its so much easier to hit them when they aggro you then when they're sitting at 50km picking their nose with no velocity at first warpin. Edit: I just wish the overview would show sig radius of the target...
You mean with missiles or guns? |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
156
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 16:04:00 -
[40] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Barton Breau wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote: That battleship has much higher sig radius than the explosion radius of fury missiles (with rigors), so where is the issue? Don't they also get signature bloom since they approach with a MWD active? A sig bloom cancels out any issue with speed.
The missile damage formula is not that simple, that is why people look at damage graphs. If NPCs don't use MWD, its news to me, I've seen it mentioned here that frigs do, and that's why its so much easier to hit them when they aggro you then when they're sitting at 50km picking their nose with no velocity at first warpin. Edit: I just wish the overview would show sig radius of the target... You mean with missiles or guns? What you quoted is my experience with guns. I have trouble getting anything to hit a frigate until I'm yellow boxed, at which point I can volley each one with a single paladin tach gun all day. Again, this is on first warp-in where angular velocity of the target is near-zero anyway. |
|
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
59
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 16:12:00 -
[41] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Barton Breau wrote:
You mean with missiles or guns?
What you quoted is my experience with guns. I have trouble getting anything to hit a frigate until I'm yellow boxed, at which point I can volley each one with a single paladin tach gun all day. Again, this is on first warp-in where angular velocity of the target is near-zero anyway.
Well, missiles and gunz work quite differently in this respect, you can hit stuff just sitting there because your turret doesnt have to rotate (tracking), missiles dont have turrets, they have their explosion speed and radius,long story short, there is certain (low) velocity of a target based on his sig radius and the missile used, that if the target exceeds, explosion velocity is taken into account in addition to radius, if it doesnt, it isnt, just the sig radius vs explosion radius.
Or just read it Missile Damage |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
156
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 16:31:00 -
[42] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Barton Breau wrote:
You mean with missiles or guns?
What you quoted is my experience with guns. I have trouble getting anything to hit a frigate until I'm yellow boxed, at which point I can volley each one with a single paladin tach gun all day. Again, this is on first warp-in where angular velocity of the target is near-zero anyway. Well, missiles and gunz work quite differently in this respect, you can hit stuff just sitting there because your turret doesnt have to rotate (tracking), missiles dont have turrets, they have their explosion speed and radius, long story short, there is certain (low) velocity of a target based on his sig radius and the missile used, that if the target exceeds, explosion velocity is taken into account in addition to radius, if it doesnt, it isnt, just the sig radius vs explosion radius. Or just read it Missile Damage Yup, its what I was reading and I also have wolframalpha pulled up as well. |
Val Karan
Knights of the Empire Northern Associates.
0
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 16:51:00 -
[43] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Barton Breau wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote: That battleship has much higher sig radius than the explosion radius of fury missiles (with rigors), so where is the issue? Don't they also get signature bloom since they approach with a MWD active? A sig bloom cancels out any issue with speed.
The missile damage formula is not that simple, that is why people look at damage graphs. Alright doing a lot of number crunching and a bit of research at chruker.com, I'm starting to think I should use 2 tps and 1 omnilink instead of the other way around, since guns have the nice advantage of near-perfect tracking outside of 40km but missiles always seem to need help. And with angels it seems best just to stick to faction cruises rather than T2 cruises? Is this common knowledge to stick to faction cruises when facing angels? As I've stated once before I really only have experience with guns, not missiles. I believe, for most people that is considered... rocket science.
You can get perfect t2 damage if you let them orbit you (taxing for this fits tank) or have a webber/additional tps. I was thinking about fleeting with a buddy in a loki with a web, for example. Web my target, shoot a different one. |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
157
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 21:53:00 -
[44] - Quote
Val Karan wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Barton Breau wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote: That battleship has much higher sig radius than the explosion radius of fury missiles (with rigors), so where is the issue? Don't they also get signature bloom since they approach with a MWD active? A sig bloom cancels out any issue with speed.
The missile damage formula is not that simple, that is why people look at damage graphs. Alright doing a lot of number crunching and a bit of research at chruker.com, I'm starting to think I should use 2 tps and 1 omnilink instead of the other way around, since guns have the nice advantage of near-perfect tracking outside of 40km but missiles always seem to need help. And with angels it seems best just to stick to faction cruises rather than T2 cruises? Is this common knowledge to stick to faction cruises when facing angels? As I've stated once before I really only have experience with guns, not missiles. I believe, for most people that is considered... rocket science. You can get perfect t2 damage if you let them orbit you (taxing for this fits tank) or have a webber/additional tps. I was thinking about fleeting with a buddy in a loki with a web, for example. Web my target, shoot a different one. It only takes 3 navy cruise volleys + drone dps to kill the highest bounty battleships, probably 2 if you can apply fury cruise damage so a second rattle dualboxed or anything shooting the same target would most likely lead to wasted dps. I put together a spreadsheet taking into account sig radius and speed combinations, and holy **** fury DPS is really hard to apply, even with 2 target painters!
|
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
59
|
Posted - 2014.07.31 06:59:00 -
[45] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote: I put together a spreadsheet taking into account sig radius and speed combinations, and holy **** fury DPS is really hard to apply, even with 2 target painters!
Yes and not entirely yes :)
Some things to keep in mind:
- big volley damage, thus smaller differences in dps matter less if all it does for example is make you waste 30 or 60% of the second volley - the rats seem to pulse their mods for some reason, the mentioned angel bs seems in reality to cycle between 250 and 300 m/s, so the final "effective" speed to approximate towards should probably be less than the paper max speed, somewhere around 275 m/s for a 350 m/s bs - some rats dont seem to accelerate past their orbit speed at all, probably has something to do with AI and their max attack range - smaller rats will be killed fast with drones, the drones can help with the bs later, thus opening the consideration of faction cruises with lower overall damage that can work even without tps |
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |