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Arla Sarain
45
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Posted - 2014.07.19 14:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
Considering how much outlash comes in regard to this subject as everyone is desperate to troll the OP into thinking it's their fault for "not having a linking alt (you noob)", this will prolly turn into a huge flame storm.
Regardless.
When a neutral logi repairs a suspect he inherits his timers. Like it or not links are group buff equivalents as in other MMOs (inb4 this aint every other MMO).
Basically the proposition is that if someone is cycling warfare links and anyone in their fleets gets suspect status, the linking ships inherits the status in the same way.
No distance checks. If offgrid link exists, you can enjoy offgrid suspect status. This allows people to at least identify the linking char through local and scan him down.
Would be better of course if you just made it so that links wouldn't function unless you were engaged in combat. Would alleviate so many issues, without removing the ability for "small gangs to counter big gangs". |
Fer'isam K'ahn
None Of One
225
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Posted - 2014.07.19 14:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
No flame ,)
I think its worth considering and acknowledging that there is an issue, but the exploit would be too obvious to awox in a fleet for an easy kill and the eradication of the whole fleet bonus. Surely you could argue that you then need to dedicate boost protection, which I believe is a good use of meta game, but I doubt it would happen [soon (tm)]. Are you sure your issues aren't elsewhere ?! |
Arla Sarain
45
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Posted - 2014.07.19 15:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:No flame ,)
too obvious to awox Missed that. |
Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
725
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Posted - 2014.07.19 15:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
Yeah the awoxing thing would be a problem if not for the (relatively) new safety button.
When you are repping someone and they go suspect, two things can happen:
- If you have safety green your reps automatically deactivate to prevent you inheriting the suspect timer
- If you have safety yellow or red, reps continue and you inherit the timer
The same thing would work with links if CCP could make it work a bit differently... players in the fleet who go suspect would stop receiving links if and only if the boosting alt has safety green. Everyone else who did not go suspect would continue to receive links. Fleet Bookmarks New Gravimetric Sites Med Clones 2.0 |
Arla Sarain
45
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Posted - 2014.07.19 15:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
Swiftstrike1 wrote:Yeah the awoxing thing would be a problem if not for the (relatively) new safety button. When you are repping someone and they go suspect, two things can happen:
- If you have safety green your reps automatically deactivate to prevent you inheriting the suspect timer
- If you have safety yellow or red, reps continue and you inherit the timer
The same thing would work with links if CCP could make it work a bit differently... players in the fleet who go suspect would stop receiving links if and only if the boosting alt has safety green. Everyone else who did not go suspect would continue to receive links. That's an interesting workaround.
Also, fleets that have awoxers are under threat of losing links anyway. If you get in fleet wouldn't the linking chars be in wing/squad commands? And awoxing chars don't really worry about standings or sec status. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
212
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Posted - 2014.07.19 16:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
It's unclear what this solves.
Links are ALWAYS sat in a safe. Or a couple of.
Different matter if they were on grid. |
Arla Sarain
47
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Posted - 2014.07.19 16:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
afkalt wrote:It's unclear what this solves.
Links are ALWAYS sat in a safe. Or a couple of.
Different matter if they were on grid.
A new flashy in local that's not on grid when someone engages you tells you that there are links. Having your mates scan him down and destroy it with no repercussions would be great.
If everyone would fly their links on grid, no one would ever complain about links. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates Forged of Fire
490
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Posted - 2014.07.19 16:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
It would certainly increase the risk for boosting, out-of-corp link alts in highsec. That is a good thing. This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates Forged of Fire
490
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Posted - 2014.07.19 16:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
afkalt wrote:It's unclear what this solves.
Links are ALWAYS sat in a safe. Or a couple of.
Different matter if they were on grid.
So, now they can be scanned down and killed without Concord's protection. This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. |
Arla Sarain
47
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Posted - 2014.07.19 17:10:00 -
[10] - Quote
I also never understood the whole distance check argument.
Indeed checking distance every tick would melt the server. But it's not a particularly bright idea anyway.
Undoubtedly the server checks for locations and destinations of all undocked ships in the system. You can mash up a series of checks with these existing calls with no need for a constant distance check.
As in, every time a ship warps, it has a current location, and a future destination. The server has to be fully aware of these. Use these facts to compare where the existing link is, and whether it coincides with the destination of the rest of the fleet members and whether the fleet members arrived at the destination (to prevent a warp call applying links, then cancelling warp to stay off grid). With this solution you could argue that fleet can warp to the link, then burn to the fight - either way, this brings the linking alt essentially point blank to the fight when compared to as it is now. |
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
212
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Posted - 2014.07.19 18:23:00 -
[11] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:afkalt wrote:It's unclear what this solves.
Links are ALWAYS sat in a safe. Or a couple of.
Different matter if they were on grid. So, now they can be scanned down and killed without Concord's protection.
Well granted but let's be realistic, high sec is a busy place. Finding THAT specific loki...not exactly going to be easy.
The complaint with links isn't that you can legally kill them, it's that you just can't get near them - In fact it is one of the FEW things inhabitants of ALL security space agree on with equal fervour.
This would be useful if they are on grid, not so much without it. |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2829
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Posted - 2014.07.19 18:54:00 -
[12] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote:afkalt wrote:It's unclear what this solves.
Links are ALWAYS sat in a safe. Or a couple of.
Different matter if they were on grid. A new flashy in local that's not on grid when someone engages you tells you that there are links. Having your mates scan him down and destroy it with no repercussions would be great. If everyone would fly their links on grid, no one would ever complain about links.
Assuming you have the right ship, with the right bonuses and the right implants to catch a very hard to probe ship that is, if the pilot isn't an idiot, rolling safes since the probes came out... |
Arla Sarain
48
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Posted - 2014.07.19 19:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
afkalt wrote:
This would be useful if they are on grid, not so much without it.
I wasn't quick on proposing something that force the linking ship on grid, as it is a controversial topic in technical regards.
However, another attempt was posted just before your reply:
Quote:Undoubtedly the server checks for locations and destinations of all undocked ships in the system. You can mash up a series of checks with these existing calls with no need for a constant distance check.
As in, every time a ship warps, it has a current location, and a future destination. The server has to be fully aware of these. Use these facts to compare where the existing link is, and whether it coincides with the destination of the rest of the fleet members and whether the fleet members arrived at the destination (to prevent a warp call applying links, then cancelling warp to stay off grid). With this solution you could argue that fleet can warp to the link, then burn to the fight - either way, this brings the linking alt essentially point blank to the fight when compared to as it is now. |
Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
725
|
Posted - 2014.07.19 22:11:00 -
[14] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Links are ALWAYS sat in a safe. Or a couple of. This is absolutely not true. It is very common for boosters to sit on gates or on stations because they know they can just jump or dock up.
If they inherited timers from the people in their fleets... they would no longer be safe on gates or stations. This would be a good thing because it would lead to more spaceships explosions \o/ Fleet Bookmarks New Gravimetric Sites Med Clones 2.0 |
Hopelesshobo
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade
268
|
Posted - 2014.07.19 22:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
I would be more in favor of this..
If the boosters safety is set at
Green: Boosts are past to everyone that isn't a suspect and people that have not aggressed or been aggressed by a war target. Yellow: Boosts suspects and wartargets, and gives limited engagement timers to the warring corporation and anyone that aggresses the suspect. Red: Boosts everything as stated above, and boosts criminals at the cost of going suspect. Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012. |
Phaade
Perimeter Defense Systems Templis CALSF
213
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Posted - 2014.07.19 22:57:00 -
[16] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote:Considering how much outlash comes in regard to this subject as everyone is desperate to troll the OP into thinking it's their fault for "not having a linking alt (you noob)", this will prolly turn into a huge flame storm.
Regardless.
When a neutral logi repairs a suspect he inherits his timers. Like it or not links are group buff equivalents as in other MMOs (inb4 this aint every other MMO).
Basically the proposition is that if someone is cycling warfare links and anyone in their fleets gets suspect status, the linking ships inherits the status in the same way.
No distance checks. If offgrid link exists, you can enjoy offgrid suspect status. This allows people to at least identify the linking char through local and scan him down.
Would be better of course if you just made it so that links wouldn't function unless you were engaged in combat. Would alleviate so many issues, without removing the ability for "small gangs to counter big gangs".
It needs to add a 60 second agression timer. Boom. Links solved. No more bullshit station games fo link alts. |
Arla Sarain
49
|
Posted - 2014.07.19 23:45:00 -
[17] - Quote
Phaade wrote:Arla Sarain wrote:Considering how much outlash comes in regard to this subject as everyone is desperate to troll the OP into thinking it's their fault for "not having a linking alt (you noob)", this will prolly turn into a huge flame storm.
Regardless.
When a neutral logi repairs a suspect he inherits his timers. Like it or not links are group buff equivalents as in other MMOs (inb4 this aint every other MMO).
Basically the proposition is that if someone is cycling warfare links and anyone in their fleets gets suspect status, the linking ships inherits the status in the same way.
No distance checks. If offgrid link exists, you can enjoy offgrid suspect status. This allows people to at least identify the linking char through local and scan him down.
Would be better of course if you just made it so that links wouldn't function unless you were engaged in combat. Would alleviate so many issues, without removing the ability for "small gangs to counter big gangs". It needs to add a 60 second agression timer. Boom. Links solved. No more bullshit station games fo link alts. Pretty much. Elegant, simple, does things. |
Alundil
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
592
|
Posted - 2014.07.21 02:57:00 -
[18] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Arla Sarain wrote:afkalt wrote:It's unclear what this solves.
Links are ALWAYS sat in a safe. Or a couple of.
Different matter if they were on grid. A new flashy in local that's not on grid when someone engages you tells you that there are links. Having your mates scan him down and destroy it with no repercussions would be great. If everyone would fly their links on grid, no one would ever complain about links. Assuming you have the right ship, with the right bonuses and the right implants to catch a very hard to probe ship that is, if the pilot isn't an idiot, rolling safes since the probes came out... if only something could change that
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Jur Tissant
Unreal Darkness
89
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Posted - 2014.07.21 04:42:00 -
[19] - Quote
I think using the safeties would be the best idea here. As suggested, if the linker has yellow safeties they get flagged, if they are green then either the links deactivate or maybe they just don't affect the suspect. |
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