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Tam Arai
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2014.07.21 11:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm looking for a bit of a change of direction.
all my experience so far is in shield tanked boats, usually with missiles, though i have used hybrids on a moa.
apart from training the skills required, what are the important things i should know about armour tanking and using energy weapons?
I have already seen that armor repairers are effective at end of cycle, opposite to shield repairers. when using a shield repairer i usually wait until i am 30% shields- should i start using armour repairer as soon as i start getting damage?
currently, i do pve, whats the best way of tanking for that and should i use a different type of tank as i move in to pvp?
anything else i should know about armour tanking?
energy weapons- i know its mainly em and thermal- anything else i should know beyond hitting F1?
do people carry various crystals to swap over mid fight as situation changes? beam is more long range, pulse short range- anything more i should know about them.
any further advice about energy weapons?
I also understand that amarr ships generally suffer cap issues- how do people generally deal with this? cap boosters?
cheers |
Nalelmir Ahashion
Omegon 42nd Core
554
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Posted - 2014.07.21 11:54:00 -
[2] - Quote
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Amarr_Ships_101
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Amarr_Basic_Ship_and_Skill_Guide "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch |
erg cz
Sliperer
90
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Posted - 2014.07.21 12:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
I hope you know, that Amarr has also missle boats line. Prophecy -> Armageddon. But they are drone boats, actually. So I do not know how far are you with drones, but if you go into amarr and you missle skills are good you surely can utilise fit like this:
[Armageddon, Armageddon: L4 Geddon] Large Armor Repairer II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Centus C-Type Armor EM Hardener Centus C-Type Armor Thermic Hardener
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script Large Micro Jump Drive Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile Drone Link Augmentor II Drone Link Augmentor II
Large Processor Overclocking Unit I Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Garde II x5 Bouncer II x5
So, no need to rush into energy weapons, if you can use missles and sentry drones. Very effective PVE combination for L4 security missions since you can adapt damage type fully. As you can notice usual armor tanking for PVE is armoar repairer and two damage hardeners. Hardeners should always be damage specific. |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
155
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Posted - 2014.07.21 12:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
As a fellow Amarr/Caldari (and Gallente) cross-trained character, here are some tips:
1. Take a look at the Khanid line of T2 Amarr ships (Vengeance, Sacrilege, Damnation, etc.). They have bonuses to missiles (primarily short range), armor resists, and cap. It's pretty straightforward for a Caldari pilot to hop into any of these once they get the ship training done.
2. Even in the T1 line, there are some drone boats with a good number of launcher hardpoints. (Arbitrator, Prophecy, Armageddon). If you have good drone skills, these will be the second easiest ships for you to use effectively.
3. Amarr ships don't inherently have cap issues. The ones I listed above will generally do fine because they use capless weapons. But Amarr ships (or really, any ships) using lasers will be prone to cap issues. You will want to make sure that your cap skills and Controlled Bursts skill (Gunnery skill that reduces cap usage) are all at least IV or V and that your Amarr ship skills (some hulls have bonuses to reducing laser cap usage) are at least III or IV.
4. On paper, Armor tanking works like shield tanking, just with a different set of skills and pool of hitpoints. Same basics apply: choose resists to match the damage type, balance your tank/cap/DPS as appropriate. Some things to note: a. Armor reppers work on the end of their cycle, not the beginning. You'll want to make sure you hit your repper at least one cycle before you really, truly, desperately need it. b. Unlike shield boosters, you can't practically fit an "oversized" armor repper (no XL reppers, no large reppers on cruisers, etc.) to any ship. There is also no equivalent of a shield boost amplifier for armor reppers. The trade-off is that you can generally fit and run two armor reppers far more easily than you can two shield boosters. c. There is no armor equivalent of an Invulnerability Field, but you get a passive module called the Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane (EANM) which provides resists to all four armor types. The resists aren't as high as an Invul Field, but it gets the benefits of the four compensation skills (get those trained up!) and it's cap free. d. You get the benefit of not caring about your shields, so you have that much more buffer the enemy has to go through before you really start tanking. It is a bit disconcerting though, watching your shields drop all the way the first few times and not want to warp out. e. Balancing tank and DPS is much more critical in an armor tanking setup because you use low slots for both. Amarr ships usually have a lot, but it's still something to pay attention to.
Hope this helps. Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I want to create content, not become content. |
Shoogie
Serious Pixels
119
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Posted - 2014.07.21 16:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
You can start with the missile ships, but to get the most out of the most Amarr ships, you will eventually need lasers.
Pulse lasers are shorter range, better tracking, and higher DPS. Beam lasers are longer range, worse tracking, and lower DPS.
Yes, carry multiple sets of frequency crystals. Know the optimal ranges for each set. Change them out depending on how close your target is.
Scorch crystals are amazing. They have good damage out to beam laser range. Once you have unlocked T2 pulse lasers, you will fit them on most of your ships. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
3034
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Posted - 2014.07.21 16:46:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cap skills, train them. "Confirming EVE is hot, batshit crazy, and puts out." -Omar Alharazaad "CAKE CANNOT HOLD UP TO BEING A CHARACTER DAMNIT." --áUnsuccessful At Everything |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3337
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Posted - 2014.07.21 17:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
Shoogie wrote:Pulse lasers are shorter range, better tracking, and higher DPS. Beam lasers are longer range, worse tracking, and lower DPS. Kind of misleading. Pulse lasers have the worst tracking of short range turrets, while beams have the best tracking of long range turrets. That's kind of important to know, I guess. Oh god. |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
44
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Posted - 2014.07.25 12:47:00 -
[8] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Shoogie wrote:Pulse lasers are shorter range, better tracking, and higher DPS. Beam lasers are longer range, worse tracking, and lower DPS. Kind of misleading. Pulse lasers have the worst tracking of short range turrets, while beams have the best tracking of long range turrets. That's kind of important to know, I guess. Also tachs can outdamage pulse at close range and pulse can do nasty things in midrange. That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2084
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Posted - 2014.07.25 12:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
obligatory plug for the nightmare. it's a shield tanked laser ship with serious ouch.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Phaade
Perimeter Defense Systems Templis CALSF
216
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Posted - 2014.07.25 14:37:00 -
[10] - Quote
You will regret choosing Amarr.
Fly Gallente. Every single one of their ships is great. |
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Kaaeliaa
Nighthawk Exploration Anoikis Ronin
6014
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Posted - 2014.07.25 14:44:00 -
[11] - Quote
Phaade wrote:You will regret choosing Amarr.
Fly Gallente. Every single one of their ships is great.
They're ugly green turds.
Oh and there's a phallus in there somewhere.
Amarr victor! Adopted Dusette, Khanid Babe For you, LAGL: http://imgur.com/WZjoZbs Princess of Sibyyl's pillow fort: http://imgur.com/hqSYgUi |
Odithia
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
49
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Posted - 2014.07.25 17:18:00 -
[12] - Quote
Phaade wrote:You will regret choosing Amarr.
Fly Gallente. Every single one of their ships is great. I agree, except in Scorch Range (for PVP) or when you want to passive brick tank something, there is a Gallente ship that will outperform any Amarr ship. I believe one of the big issue is the laser capacitor consumption that require a dedicated ship bonus (and even after that the laser will still use more cap than the hybrid).
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Tulber
Caldari State
13
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Posted - 2014.07.25 18:24:00 -
[13] - Quote
Cross training... Not for Ishtar?
Stratios then? |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
149
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Posted - 2014.07.25 18:45:00 -
[14] - Quote
Odithia wrote:Phaade wrote:You will regret choosing Amarr.
Fly Gallente. Every single one of their ships is great. I agree, except in Scorch Range (for PVP) or when you want to passive brick tank something, there is a Gallente ship that will outperform any Amarr ship. I believe one of the big issue is the laser capacitor consumption that require a dedicated ship bonus (and even after that the laser will still use more cap than the hybrid). The laser using more cap is partially offset by amarr ships having a big capacitor. Pulse lasers could use more DPS built into their crystals (except scorch) to reinforce their unique role as mid-range weapons. And maybe the cap use could still be tuned down slightly. |
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
342
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Posted - 2014.07.25 19:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
Doing it backwards.
People try amarr then run away from it, not the other way around.
Exception might be cap pilots.
Please keep the thread updated on how it goes for you.
I expect tears.
The nightmare suggestion is a good way to put your toe in the water without getting in too far.
So much dust about to be gathered. |
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
688
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Posted - 2014.07.25 19:22:00 -
[16] - Quote
Shoogie wrote:Pulse lasers are shorter range, better tracking, and higher DPS. Beam lasers are longer range, worse tracking, and lower DPS.
Medium Lasers are not quite following this guideline.
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Odithia
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
49
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Posted - 2014.07.25 20:22:00 -
[17] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote: The laser using more cap is partially offset by amarr ships having a big capacitor. Pulse lasers could use more DPS built into their crystals (except scorch) to reinforce their unique role as mid-range weapons. And maybe the cap use could still be tuned down slightly.
There definitely is a problem with the capacitor.
Omen with full rack of Focused Medium Beam, cap stable @61% Thorax full rack of 200mm Railgun, cap stable @75%
The Beam have an inherant better trackin than the Railgun, but with the Thorax hull bonus it's pretty much the same, with slightly better damage and pojection for the Thorax.
Same with Harbringer and Brutix.
It is however harder to compare Pulse and Blaster. |
Tam Arai
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2014.07.27 10:36:00 -
[18] - Quote
I gave an omen a try
it didn't go well
I quite liked the lazers- pulse lazers out to 24km were doing quite nicely and i enjoyed using them. swapping instantly for closer range was nice too
however, armor wasn't a good experience- i know that my armor skills are minimal currently but thought i would still have a go. by the time i started taking armor damage and started off my repairer, it already seemed too late and i died a horrible death lol
i will also admit that i just went out and did a lv2 mission without checking on having right resists etc but still, it feels really dangerous just living on armor and then in to hull because if it goes wrong, theres not much left you can do about it.
i will have more goes on this armor thing as a lot of people seem to be able to use it properly.... |
The Djego
Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition
261
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Posted - 2014.07.30 12:26:00 -
[19] - Quote
Tam Arai wrote:I gave an omen a try
it didn't go well
I quite liked the lazers- pulse lazers out to 24km were doing quite nicely and i enjoyed using them. swapping instantly for closer range was nice too
however, armor wasn't a good experience- i know that my armor skills are minimal currently but thought i would still have a go. by the time i started taking armor damage and started off my repairer, it already seemed too late and i died a horrible death lol
i will also admit that i just went out and did a lv2 mission without checking on having right resists etc but still, it feels really dangerous just living on armor and then in to hull because if it goes wrong, theres not much left you can do about it.
i will have more goes on this armor thing as a lot of people seem to be able to use it properly....
Amarr is awesome, since they combine mobility(on most rebalanced hulls), high tracking at medium range, massive dps at medium range and ultra high range(where close range BS hit out out to 100km still with very high dps) and very good armor tanks.
If you have issues with low armor skills you can simply add a 800mm plate to the Omen, I never had issues with the 2008 version of the Omen(that couldn't fit anything decent by the lack of power grid and cpu and only had 5 low slots). The Omen, Navy Omen, Zealot and Legion have one in common, they negate most incoming damage, rather then to tank it. If you use a afterburner and control the range(stay away from ships that can hit hard at close and get close to ships that have tracking issues against them like most BS) you can fly everything up to L4 omni tank(might be a bit harder in the Omen/navy Omen but definitive doable in a Zealot or Legion).
You could give something like this a try, the dps are not that high with low gunnery skills but it should help to get a feel for how to pilot amarr ships. If you get a feel for it and better armor skills(including armor compensations just remove the plate).
[Omen Navy Issue, training weels] Medium Armor Repairer II Damage Control II Adaptive Nano Plating II 800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II
Experimental 10MN Afterburner I Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Heavy Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Xray M Heavy Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Xray M Heavy Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Xray M Heavy Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Xray M Small Tractor Beam I
Medium Energy Locus Coordinator II Medium Energy Locus Coordinator II Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Hobgoblin II x5 Hobgoblin II x5
The choice of amarr isn't bad for a caldari speced char, since amarr got also got some good missile options(HAM Legion, Sacrilege, Vengeance) and the they fit very well in to armor fleets where most shield tanked missile ships are a problem. I basically went the other way around and added the caldari skill set to my focused amarr char, given that you need the missile skills as well to fully utilize some hulls. It also grands the ability to fly the NM and have a tool for nearly any L4 application(use a CNR vs Guristas/Angels and Merc, Drones, Blood, Sansha with puls BS like the Navy Apoc, plus they perform a lot better in frig heavy missions than a CM boat).
Here is a bit of a inspiration what can be done with the hulls in level 4 missions:
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1305/Abaddon_L4_Recon_1.mkv http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1306/New_NAPOC_Smuggler_Interception.mkv http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1402/Navy_Apoc_Angel_Extravaganza.mkv Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
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Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
1381
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Posted - 2014.07.30 14:32:00 -
[20] - Quote
start out by overtanking as you gain experience and confidence with armour tanking you'll be swapping tank for gank and therefore killing things faster
fit 2 armour repairers fit 3-4 armour hardeners (2+1, 2+2 or 2+1+1)
as you get used to armour tanking follow a 3 stage tank->gank conversion - replace 2nd repairer with a damage or tracking module - replace 4th hardener with a damage or tracking module - replace 3rd hardener with a damage module
when using 2 repairers, you run the first continuously and pulse the second as needed |
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