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Chronoxi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
25
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Posted - 2014.07.26 17:21:00 -
[61] - Quote
Ollie Rundle wrote:Has anyone skilled in R&D, invention or manufacturing science tried this on themselves? It occurs to me that capsuleers with exceptional skill or knowledge in these areas might well be in a unique position not only to apply the benefits of Inferno but also to mitigate its adverse effects.
I am no expert in neurological science or the likes. But according to my understanding, transfer of consciousness from one body to another involves 'copying' the state of mind of the current body and 'pasting' it into another. And according to my understanding of this 'infeno' substance, it modifies the brain and allows for unimaginable increase in intelligence. So if one body consumes inferno, becomes vegetative, 'jump' to another clone, there might be complications. Since you have experienced what it is like to have a modified brain, but suddenly your new clone has an unmodified brain. Might go mad, or brain locked. Thus why we had not heard capsuleer consuming this substance yet. 'Chronoxi' Joseph Vafhan |
Ollie Rundle
185
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Posted - 2014.07.27 05:29:00 -
[62] - Quote
Chronoxi wrote:I am no expert in neurological science or the likes. But according to my understanding, transfer of consciousness from one body to another involves 'copying' the state of mind of the current body and 'pasting' it into another. And according to my understanding of this 'infeno' substance, it modifies the brain and allows for unimaginable increase in intelligence. So if one body consumes inferno, becomes vegetative, 'jump' to another clone, there might be complications. Since you have experienced what it is like to have a modified brain, but suddenly your new clone has an unmodified brain. Might go mad, or brain locked. Thus why we had not heard capsuleer consuming this substance yet.
Many thanks for your perspective.
While I acknowledge that there remains significant debate as to whether storing neuro-scan data for use in so-called 'soft cloning' is possible I've seen it happen often enough to recognise that it is, albeit it with some risks involved.
I should probably clarify my position for your understanding, pilot:
I'm not suggesting scanning the mind of the biomass that takes the Inferno. I'm suggesting disposing of that clone in toto and uploading an archived copy of the original (ie. pre-Inferno) neuro-scan data to another clone.
So three clones in all - one to donate the brain scan and be euthanised in the process; one to accept a copy of that brainscan and take the Inferno (and be euthanised following that process); and a final clone (the 'soft' or backup clone) to accept a further copy of the original brainscan who then reaps any benefits the Inferno-fuelled research period has provided.
As already noted there are some hurdles to clear in getting to that point but none appear insurmountable. I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has trialled this or a similar method with IN-06 or other equally dangerous substances. The small sample sizes that might have been involved in such research to date mandate for pooled data analysis from multiple sources in order to power any study appropriately. I'd be open to discussion either within this thread or through private channels. -á |
Pieter Tuulinen
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
3883
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Posted - 2014.07.27 06:46:00 -
[63] - Quote
It gets complex, I know, since we're already dealing with issues of chronological age and biological age. For most of us it's only a handful of years, as yet, for some of us a decade has passed and our bodies are no older, unless we wish it.
Time, of course, is always subjective, so the issue of 'losing time' when we soft-clone is already complicated by the fact that said time only exists in our own perception, and the shared perceptions of those who were with us. So, if you view the experience of soft-cloning as retreating back down your own timestream, whilst everyone else proceeds down their own without you, then you begin to understand how soft-cloning can truly twist your perception of things.
People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect but, actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective, viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey stuff. About the only time we truly get smacked with that distinction is when we soft-clone.
And that temporal dislocation is just one of the risks. "You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions." "Only a killer would know that..." |
Ollie Rundle
185
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Posted - 2014.07.27 10:01:00 -
[64] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:It gets complex, I know, since we're already dealing with issues of chronological age and biological age. For most of us it's only a handful of years, as yet, for some of us a decade has passed and our bodies are no older, unless we wish it.
Time, of course, is always subjective, so the issue of 'losing time' when we soft-clone is already complicated by the fact that said time only exists in our own perception, and the shared perceptions of those who were with us. So, if you view the experience of soft-cloning as retreating back down your own timestream, whilst everyone else proceeds down their own without you, then you begin to understand how soft-cloning can truly twist your perception of things.
People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect but, actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective, viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey stuff. About the only time we truly get smacked with that distinction is when we soft-clone.
And that temporal dislocation is just one of the risks.
Good observations which, while certainly very interesting, are a little askew of what I was referring to as 'hurdles'.
With respect to the method I outlined we're really talking about a 'temporal dislocation' of little more than a few hours, something comparable to the 'lost time' caused by an anaesthetic given during a complex surgical procedure. The original scan is made, the original clone disposed of and the data is copied to the disposable clone. Between one and two hours later that clone is burnt, joins the original and the third clone is then activated. Technically of course that third clone could be activated near-simultaneously with the second but that's like waving a red flag in front of the horned beast that is CONCORD and as such it's probably a practice best avoided (or at least not advertised).
While it's early days yet, I've seen little risk of temporal dislocation in that circumstance as opposed to the more common risks of data corruption, transfer errors and so on. That's not to say it couldn't potentially occur, of course.
On a longer timeframe however - particularly within some of the advanced modelling and analysis we do within time-adjusted virtual tanks - I have seen anecdotal reports of some odd behavioural patterns becoming apparent on the other side of the infomorph to clone re-integration process. -á |
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox Low-Class
3887
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Posted - 2014.07.28 14:19:00 -
[65] - Quote
Having myself experienced restoration from soft backup, I have to say that it's not quite the trauma that some people make it out to be. It's like waking up late in the afternoon after a heavy night's drinking with no idea how you go there: Confusing, but we're plenty resilient enough to cope.
No, the reason Inferno hasn't seen much in the way of deployment to the Capsuleer market is that, I suspect, it wouldn't actually do very much for us. The brain of any established pod pilot has already undergone extensive reprofiling and education via the implant-learning "skillbooks" system to process certain types of information extremely efficiently, divorced from our conscious control and insight.
While those efficient pathways can be iterated upon and strengthened, and new ones generated, the... for lack of a better term, Holistic increase in effective intellect and pattern-matching ability induced by Inferno would be substantially dampened in capsuleers because we've already committed to specialising our brains in a different and incompatible way. When you've already got a supercomputer-brain that's able to micromanage and number-crunch the analytical systems of an advanced laboratory facility without your direct conscious input, taking a drug that would have that exact same effect while also dragging your attention on board and then burning out your neocortex for the trouble seems a little pointless.
Analogy time!
We spend our careers wiring our brains to work one way, while Inferno jolts the brain into working another way. Both approaches constitute a radical modification of the Baseliner neural structure, in different ways. So, it's like looking at cookies and bread, both of which are made with flour, and asking why the cookie modification isn't available for bread. The flour's already been baked into one format and can't now be readily converted into the other. I daresay if you tried to bake cookies using breadcrumbs instead of flour, the result wouldn't be quite as impressive. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
1194
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Posted - 2014.07.30 10:55:00 -
[66] - Quote
Ollie Rundle wrote:Has anyone skilled in R&D, invention or manufacturing science tried this on themselves? It occurs to me that capsuleers with exceptional skill or knowledge in these areas might well be in a unique position not only to apply the benefits of Inferno but also to mitigate its adverse effects. There is no way to "mitigate its adverse effect". When capsuleer dies, capsuleer dies. The only thing that makes different with baseliners, that after death, capsuleers are copied and new clone is available to continue capsuleer's work. Unless you will have a sheep-like breed capsuleer stock, that will follow you to slaughter for scientific purposes, I don't think this will work.
Besides that, capsuleer "skilling" in R&D implies R&D management, but not scientific experience itself. (If there are real capsuleer scientists though somewhere out there - please contact me, I would have something to discuss with you! No death, danger or inferno involved.) |
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox Low-Class
3887
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Posted - 2014.08.01 13:57:00 -
[67] - Quote
I suspect, Pilot Kim, that most of those of us who qualify to be called a scientist are on the list of people you'd balk at doing business with. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
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Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
695
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Posted - 2014.08.01 16:43:00 -
[68] - Quote
Well, with enough doctorates, published studies and other scientific credentials to threaten the nearby storage with a catastrophic containment failure, I would certainly qualify. Combined with my pre-capsuleer life of being a fairly well regarded technician and my engineer background there are very few fields I would be uncomfortable approaching with a certain level of confidence both in theoretical and practical settings.
Of course, Kimmy here would be a very unlikely source of a challenging or even interesting project, even if she weren't utterly insane. Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.
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Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox Low-Class
3887
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Posted - 2014.08.01 16:53:00 -
[69] - Quote
ISK says the project is related in some way to one or more of the following subjects: Tibus Heth, the Provists, Home, Traitors or destroying the Federation.
any takers? An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
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Pieter Tuulinen
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
3905
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Posted - 2014.08.01 17:06:00 -
[70] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:ISK says the project is related in some way to one or more of the following subjects: Tibus Heth, the Provists, Home, Traitors or destroying the Federation.
any takers?
You still on your quest to take ALL my iskies, Verin? "You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions." "Only a killer would know that..." |
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Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
695
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Posted - 2014.08.01 17:13:00 -
[71] - Quote
My ISKies is on fitting actual working MWDs on a model Thorax. Or at least giving it a gentle hum. Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.
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Pieter Tuulinen
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
3905
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Posted - 2014.08.01 17:54:00 -
[72] - Quote
Jinari Otsito wrote:My ISKies is on fitting actual working MWDs on a model Thorax. Or at least giving it a gentle hum.
Honestly, woman. Get out of that lab, put a brush through your hair and get out amongst people for a change. A model, so equipped, would hardly be necessary. "You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions." "Only a killer would know that..." |
Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
695
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Posted - 2014.08.01 18:09:00 -
[73] - Quote
We're talking about Diana Kim here, Tuulinen. Not exactly the someone who'd be joining me in the luxury clubs I tend to enjoy in Jita's capsuleer sections. Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.
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Arllette
Perkone Caldari State
139
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Posted - 2014.08.01 18:22:00 -
[74] - Quote
Jinari Otsito wrote:We're talking about Diana Kim here, Tuulinen. Not exactly the someone who'd be joining me in the luxury clubs I tend to enjoy in Jita's capsuleer sections. Jita, huh?
I wouldn't undock if I was you, miss.
Mizhir > "The forums are the EVE endgame after all." |
Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
696
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Posted - 2014.08.01 18:42:00 -
[75] - Quote
No need to, these days. Everything I do is handled remotely or automated while I lounge in... well, lounges. Also trying to kick an annoying new addiction I never saw coming. Did you know there's this game series called Terminal Imagination? Some of them are multiplayer and apparently not terminal enough to stop them reaching over a dozen games now.
This is harder to quit than drugs, I swear.
If you're referring to the wardec, Jita's hardly difficult to escape in the right cloakies, instawarps and other lovely tools of the prepared. Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.
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Pieter Tuulinen
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
3905
|
Posted - 2014.08.01 18:48:00 -
[76] - Quote
Jinari Otsito wrote:We're talking about Diana Kim here, Tuulinen. Not exactly the someone who'd be joining me in the luxury clubs I tend to enjoy in Jita's capsuleer sections.
Oh... Ah... For HER... Right...
Forget I spoke. "You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions." "Only a killer would know that..." |
Arllette
Perkone Caldari State
142
|
Posted - 2014.08.01 18:57:00 -
[77] - Quote
Jinari Otsito wrote:No need to, these days. Everything I do is handled remotely or automated while I lounge in... well, lounges. Also trying to kick an annoying new addiction I never saw coming. Did you know there's this game series called Terminal Imagination? Some of them are multiplayer and apparently not terminal enough to stop them reaching over a dozen games now.
This is harder to quit than drugs, I swear.
If you're referring to the wardec, Jita's hardly difficult to escape in the right cloakies, instawarps and other lovely tools of the prepared. I've never tried drugs, or games for amusement. I do spend a lot of time in station though keeping an eye on my charge.
Oh, a war dec you say? Whatever did you do to inspire such a thing? You don't strike me as a combat pilot. Was it something you said to someone? Thankfully I've never been in a war before but am told there's simple ways to get around things. But I really wouldn't want to be restricted in my travel like that for ... well, forever.
I hope you stay safe and prosper.
Mizhir > "The forums are the EVE endgame after all." |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
1205
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Posted - 2014.08.02 17:22:00 -
[78] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Jinari Otsito wrote:We're talking about Diana Kim here, Tuulinen. Not exactly the someone who'd be joining me in the luxury clubs I tend to enjoy in Jita's capsuleer sections. Oh... Ah... For HER... Right... Forget I spoke. I wouldn't join Kakku in her disgusting luxury club for sure. If she loves to live like gallentean swines and do things for gallentean money, it's her choice.
But when ours will return to power, we will clean all Caldari stations from filth, so only decent and loyal Caldari citizens will remain! |
Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
697
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Posted - 2014.08.02 17:44:00 -
[79] - Quote
Gallentean money? Wut? Everything else is pretty much spot on though. Gallenteans do many things very oddly, governance for instance, but they know their lounges. Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.
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Aracturus
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
179
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Posted - 2014.08.11 13:41:00 -
[80] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Kayagainen Iwalula wrote:What is it with you and your obsession with stuffing things?
"I stuffed a freighter full of slaves" "I stuffed a slave full of Vitoc" "I stuffed my slaves with Inferno"
Perhaps you should consider stuffing it before making yet another decision to alienate yourself before the whole of the IGS. None of the other blooders have sympathy for you, so I don't see what you're trying to accomplish with all this. Apparently this is a chronic obsession for many who live a cloistered existence.
Yes. They frequently seek to stuff things into other things. This is now a WIDOT thread! |
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Pieter Tuulinen
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
3952
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Posted - 2014.08.11 15:44:00 -
[81] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote: I wouldn't join Kakku in her disgusting luxury club for sure. If she loves to live like gallentean swines and do things for gallentean money, it's her choice.
I personally applaud merchants who separate the Gallente Federation from their money in exchange for premium Caldari goods. "You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions." "Only a killer would know that..." |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
1219
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Posted - 2014.08.15 07:06:00 -
[82] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Diana Kim wrote: I wouldn't join Kakku in her disgusting luxury club for sure. If she loves to live like gallentean swines and do things for gallentean money, it's her choice.
I personally applaud merchants who separate the Gallente Federation from their money in exchange for premium Caldari goods. Well, I can applaud to Caldari merchants who will deprive Jinari Otsito of her money as well. But still, I would prefer the Federation to be destroyed, and traitors to be detained or executed by firing squad. Since after the Federation is destroyed, their merchants and markets remain (in whatever they will self-organize), our merchants still will be able to separate them from their money. And as for Otsito and other traitors, I'd recommend taking their money... before this happens. |
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