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Zach Lemmont
Rising Storm. The Unthinkables
2
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Posted - 2014.07.22 20:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
To get things started, I'd just like to point out how one-sided Crime & Punishment is in the game. It seems to me it's a lot more Crime & Tears, which to be honest is a great load of fun, but the part that bothers me is the lack on punishment players are able to put on said space pirates. Let's all be honest, there really isn't a lot of risk involved in ganking other players other than a pretty useless security status system. I honestly can't think of a way to make Crime & Punishment more exciting in New Eden, but i was hoping maybe we could discuss possible changes that could improve our current system.
BEFORE POSTING: I shouldn't have to say this, but please thoroughly think through your suggestion before posting it. This thread is NOT designed to make hi-sec "safe". AGAIN, this thread's intention is to not make suggestions that make hi-sec "safe".
Anyways, i honestly cannot think of any great ideas, but I AM dying to see hi-sec Crime & PUNISHMENT become something way more exciting and have a higher risk/reward concept to it. I'd say our first step is starting with this mediocre bounty system? |
admiral root
Red Galaxy
1452
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Posted - 2014.07.22 20:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
Zach Lemmont wrote: but the part that bothers me is the lack on punishment players are able to put on said space pirates.
This is where you go wrong. it should read "but the part that bothers me is the lack on punishment players are willing to put on said space pirates". No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff |
Zach Lemmont
Rising Storm. The Unthinkables
2
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Posted - 2014.07.22 20:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
admiral root wrote:Zach Lemmont wrote: but the part that bothers me is the lack on punishment players are able to put on said space pirates. This is where you go wrong. it should read "but the part that bothers me is the lack on punishment players are willing to put on said space pirates".
I guess what i'm looking for is an incentive really. Other than revenge and a horrible bounty system we really don't have much reason to try and pursue a trained PvP character lol. |
Leto Thule
Narwhals Ate My Duck. Narwhals Ate My Duck
893
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Posted - 2014.07.22 20:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
It depends very much on your definition of what a "criminal" would be. If your definition is anyone who is red-flashy (-5 or under), they can be engaged freely, by anyone, anywhere in the game.
If you are referring to tag-repping gankers, you could always return the favor.
If you are scammed, you need to try to outwit the person to return the favor.
Root is correct, enforcement needs to be done by the players, not by CCP, and its all about how far YOU are willing to go to police the game yourself. Killboard
https://zkillboard.com/character/90841161/
If you didnt vote Psychotic Monk, you voted for Hello Kitty in space |
Zach Lemmont
Rising Storm. The Unthinkables
2
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Posted - 2014.07.22 20:52:00 -
[5] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:It depends very much on your definition of what a "criminal" would be. If your definition is anyone who is red-flashy (-5 or under), they can be engaged freely, by anyone, anywhere in the game.
If you are referring to tag-repping gankers, you could always return the favor.
If you are scammed, you need to try to outwit the person to return the favor.
Root is correct, enforcement needs to be done by the players, not by CCP, and its all about how far YOU are willing to go to police the game yourself.
All a player has to gain is a kill really, more than likely on a cheap ship with little to no value. Let's say I'm the ganker now, basically all of my targets are going to be juicy sweet isk targets. A ganker has incentive and almost nothing to lose. A person who chooses to retaliate, generally has very little to gain other than a short-lived feel good revenge. How BORING is that! |
Zach Lemmont
Rising Storm. The Unthinkables
2
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Posted - 2014.07.22 20:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
Perhaps giving the player more incentive to use their kill-right set to personal, would lead to a larger bounty acquired? I'm always iffy on suggestions, because nearly everything can be exploitable |
admiral root
Red Galaxy
1453
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Posted - 2014.07.22 21:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
Zach Lemmont wrote:I guess what i'm looking for is an incentive really.
The only incentive I've ever needed for spaceship violence is the simple fact that I can. No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff |
Zach Lemmont
Rising Storm. The Unthinkables
2
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Posted - 2014.07.22 21:11:00 -
[8] - Quote
admiral root wrote:Zach Lemmont wrote:I guess what i'm looking for is an incentive really. The only incentive I've ever needed for spaceship violence is the simple fact that I can.
That's great, but not everyone thinks the same. We're playing a sandbox game essentially, so why does there have to be little to no options to go about doing something? |
Bing Bangboom
DAMAG Safety Commission
288
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Posted - 2014.07.22 21:14:00 -
[9] - Quote
Zach Lemmont wrote: the part that bothers me is the lack on punishment players are able to put on said space pirates.
The ganking IS the punishment.
Undock in an expensive ship, warp off next to an asteroid, start the lasers and go do the laundry?
Punishment for foolish and careless behavior soon arrives in the form of a CODE. catalyst.
AFK a freighter through Aufay?
The human embodiment of punishment in the form of loyalanon and his band of piranha soon punish this absolutely bot aspirant behavior.
Smack talk a New Order Agent in local for enforcing the Code?
The "new guy" in your corp suddenly starts asploding the prize Orca along with the corp's herd of Macks as a just punishment for rebel activities in New Order systems.
Whether its AFK mining, Code resistant vulching, or just downright negligent failure to have a legal permit to mine in highsec, crime is, unfortunately, still rampant amongst the carebears. They are hardened criminals and, failing rehabiliation, can only be exterminated.
The OP is correct that there needs to be MORE punishment.... and we intend to deliver it.
Highsec is worth fighting for.
Bing Bangboom Agent of the New Order of Highsec Belligerent Undesirable Highsec is worth fighting for.
By choosing to mine in New Order systems, highsec miners have agreed to follow the New Halaima Code of Conduct.-á www.minerbumping.com
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Zach Lemmont
Rising Storm. The Unthinkables
2
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Posted - 2014.07.22 21:16:00 -
[10] - Quote
Bing Bangboom wrote:Zach Lemmont wrote: the part that bothers me is the lack on punishment players are able to put on said space pirates. The ganking IS the punishment. Undock in an expensive ship, warp off next to an asteroid, start the lasers and go do the laundry? Punishment for foolish and careless behavior soon arrives in the form of a CODE. catalyst. AFK a freighter through Aufay? The human embodiment of punishment in the form of loyalanon and his band of piranha soon punish this absolutely bot aspirant behavior. Smack talk a New Order Agent in local for enforcing the Code? The "new guy" in your corp suddenly starts asploding the prize Orca along with the corp's herd of Macks as a just punishment for rebel activities in New Order systems. Whether its AFK mining, Code resistant vulching, or just downright negligent failure to have a legal permit to mine in highsec, crime is, unfortunately, still rampant amongst the carebears. They are hardened criminals and, failing rehabiliation, can only be exterminated. The OP is correct that there needs to be MORE punishment.... and we intend to deliver it. Highsec is worth fighting for. Bing Bangboom Agent of the New Order of Highsec Belligerent Undesirable
Let me rephrase and edit that then. "Criminal Punishment". |
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Bing Bangboom
DAMAG Safety Commission
288
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Posted - 2014.07.22 21:30:00 -
[11] - Quote
Zach Lemmont wrote:
Let me rephrase and edit that then. "Criminal Punishment". Basically all you are saying is there is no criminal punishment. Why not? Why can't we hire individual player bounty hunters?
The problem here is, is that there is little to no criminal punishment. So what if you're afk mining, some see that as okay and others don't. So the others who don't see it as a problem, how are they supposed to do anything about it effectively?
What I am saying is that we define crime as breaking the Code (www.minerbumping.com) and THEN we punish the criminals. And we have no lack of ways of doing it.
There is nothing stopping other players from punishing what they consider crime. If we can do it, so can they. Complaining that there is a lack of punishment possible when we are providing a perfect example that punishment can be effectively, even overwhelmingly applied is simply an unwillingness to expand your definitions of crime and punishment. Or, as is more likely, an unwillingness to personally do what it takes to punish the offenders. The tools exist, you just lack the courage to use them.
In our Eve, the non compliant miners are the criminals. The AFK freighter pilots are the bad guys. The players that want to stop the New Order are rebels and enemies of peace and justice in highsec. We are punishing these criminals pretty effectively. Obviously your initial premise lacks real world justification.
BBB
Highsec is worth fighting for.
By choosing to mine in New Order systems, highsec miners have agreed to follow the New Halaima Code of Conduct.-á www.minerbumping.com
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
1540
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Posted - 2014.07.22 22:04:00 -
[12] - Quote
Regarding highsec, I suggest removing Faction Police harassing neg sec status players, but denying them docking rights in stations except in a pod.
Also, make -2.0 legal targets to all in 1.0, -2.5 in 0.9 and so forth (if this isn't already the case - I couldn't find a straight answer anywhere and cba to test it myself).
Advantages:
. Neg status people free to hunt eachother in highsec, if they want . Makes sense from a roleplay persepective (outlaws building their own hideouts) . Encourages gankers to deploy assets in space, that can be attacked (by anyone, including rival gankers if any) . Allows gankers to freely roam and spend more time in space, where they can be attacked (by anyone) . Coherent with CCP's 'empires are losing grasp' storyline . Less NPCs interfering in player gameplay . More power to the players, to be either the bad guy or the good guy (or both) and settle matters among themselves
Disadvantages: none that I can think of. If suicide ganking becomes too easy (because no facpo) or too hard (because no stations) compared to CCP's choice of highsec risk balancing, they could easily tweak CONCORD response times accordingly (shorter or longer, as needed).
My 0.02. EVE Online: Death-o-meter |
Kaea Astridsson
Yggdrasil Woodchoppers Noir. Mercenary Group
98
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Posted - 2014.07.22 23:10:00 -
[13] - Quote
-2.0 sec is viable targets in a 1.0 sec system, -2.5 good to shoot in 0.9 space. And so on.
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Security_status |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
1545
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Posted - 2014.07.22 23:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
Possibly, but it doesn't say so in the link you posted.
Have you tested it yourself? Or do you have a reliable source? EVE Online: Death-o-meter |
Kaea Astridsson
Yggdrasil Woodchoppers Noir. Mercenary Group
99
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Posted - 2014.07.22 23:37:00 -
[15] - Quote
It does say in the link, and yes - tried engaging targets with safety green. Think my last rookie ship kill was due to this. (Had to shoot something! Missed an itty v piloted by a -2,6.) |
Zero Sum Gain
FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDOOOOOOOOM Silent Requiem
61
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Posted - 2014.07.22 23:41:00 -
[16] - Quote
Zach Lemmont wrote:admiral root wrote:Zach Lemmont wrote:I guess what i'm looking for is an incentive really. The only incentive I've ever needed for spaceship violence is the simple fact that I can. That's great, but not everyone thinks the same. We're playing a sandbox game essentially, so why does there have to be little to no options to go about doing something?
You're misunderstanding. Sandbox means you can, which we can. Game mechanics based incentive means theme park. |
Saeger1737
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
678
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Posted - 2014.07.22 23:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
Current crime watch system seems to have a ton of loopholes I admit, it would be nice if CCP would allow concord to deputize players to protect a region.
Creating a cop and robbers type content. Criminals could pay the deputies to look the other way, and industrial pilots could bark at deputies so we'll have no more stupid posts whining about how you lost everything in one ship. |
Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
3586
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 00:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
Wouldn't you say it's exactly the same as real life? Lot of criminals, hardly any crimefighters. Police = FacPo, army = CONCORD. .. when everything else is gone .. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
3263
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 00:04:00 -
[19] - Quote
Having killrights against you is a significant punishment.
If those killrights are not wasted by the idiots that hold them. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=346564 - a proposal to overhaul the Logistics skill https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. www.minerbumping.com - ganking miners and causing chaos |
Paranoid Loyd
969
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Posted - 2014.07.23 02:24:00 -
[20] - Quote
Zach Lemmont wrote:Thank you all for not understanding what constructive feedback means :) very productive forums we have here!
If you can't stand the heat...... "PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite |
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Zach Lemmont
Rising Storm. The Unthinkables
2
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Posted - 2014.07.23 02:30:00 -
[21] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Zach Lemmont wrote:Thank you all for not understanding what constructive feedback means :) very productive forums we have here! If you can't stand the heat......
It's not heat, it's merely negative narcissistic idiots. Why discuss something, when everyone wants to try to say "Hey I'm right, and you're wrong!". It's quite pointless to keep this thread going as you can clearly see by the lack of constructive feedback. |
Zach Lemmont
Rising Storm. The Unthinkables
2
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Posted - 2014.07.23 02:31:00 -
[22] - Quote
. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5690
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 02:39:00 -
[23] - Quote
Zach Lemmont wrote:Thank you all for not understanding what constructive feedback means :) very productive forums we have here!
"I didn't agree with any of the replies so I edited out my OP & implied that people don't know stuff. I'm so smart" This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal & proud member of the popular gay hookup site, somethingawful.com |
Zach Lemmont
Rising Storm. The Unthinkables
2
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 02:45:00 -
[24] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Zach Lemmont wrote:Thank you all for not understanding what constructive feedback means :) very productive forums we have here! "I didn't agree with any of the replies so I edited out my OP & implied that people don't know stuff. I'm so smart"
A prime example here of "Hey you're wrong, and i'm better than you!" mentality! Wow, outstanding citizen there, you really make this forum better! |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5690
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 02:50:00 -
[25] - Quote
Zach Lemmont wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Zach Lemmont wrote:Thank you all for not understanding what constructive feedback means :) very productive forums we have here! "I didn't agree with any of the replies so I edited out my OP & implied that people don't know stuff. I'm so smart" A prime example here of "Hey you're wrong, and i'm better than you!" mentality! Wow, outstanding citizen there, you really make this forum better!
Could be worse, I could be like you. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal & proud member of the popular gay hookup site, somethingawful.com |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3856
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 10:09:00 -
[26] - Quote
Zach Lemmont wrote:To get things started, I'd just like to point out how one-sided Crime & Punishment is in the game. It seems to me it's a lot more Crime & Tears, which to be honest is a great load of fun, but the part that bothers me is the lack on punishment players are able to put on said space pirates. Let's all be honest, there really isn't a lot of risk involved in ganking other players other than a pretty useless security status system. I honestly can't think of a way to make Crime & Punishment more exciting in New Eden, but i was hoping maybe we could discuss possible changes that could improve our current system.
BEFORE POSTING: I shouldn't have to say this, but please thoroughly think through your suggestion before posting it. This thread is NOT designed to make hi-sec "safe". AGAIN, this thread's intention is to not make suggestions that make hi-sec "safe".
Anyways, i honestly cannot think of any great ideas, but I AM dying to see hi-sec Crime & PUNISHMENT become something way more exciting and have a higher risk/reward concept to it. I'd say our first step is starting with this mediocre bounty system?
The OP for those that missed it.
And overall I actually agree with the OP (the old OP, not the new ******** "I'm hiding my thread" OP). Ganking and scamming is easy and pretty much risk free. Any risks there are are tiny and easily mitigated. I have several gank characters, and there is literally no way to punish them, mechanically or not. They don't fly normal ships, only ganky ships, they have empty pods, their killboards are terrible and everyone knows they gank, scam, awox, etc. There nothing anyone could possibly do to them that would have any impact at all. The new tags mean that if I one day want them to stop being a ganker I have to pay a trivial amount to get them back into positive sec status and either use up my killrights on rookie ships or wait up to 30 days for them to drop off.
Now I'm not saying that gank and scam victims should be wrapped up in soft blankets, they are dumbasses and deserve to be scammed and killed. But to claim that the "pirates" (I very loosely use that term) of this game run any risks at all is laughable. The whole games needs to be a bit more punishing all round to be honest, it's way too easy to simply shrug of anything bad that happens and avoid any and all consequences. There should be consequences for everything, consequences you have to live with and not that can just be bought out of for pocket change. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Buddy Scrap
Hedion University Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2014.07.23 14:40:00 -
[27] - Quote
Maybe now the OP has at least a modicum of empathy with respect to his concerns, he'll reinstate his original statement, instead of flouncing off, like a space lady.
/flouncing |
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