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Gustav Mannfred
the bring back canflipping corp
103
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Posted - 2014.07.23 14:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
I want warn you of an exploiting player, who joins your corp, scans you down and can legally attack you without concord. He first joined my corporation, then he scanned me down in Barkrik and came with a paladin and attacked me without concord came and killed him.
So, I lost a Vargur with almost one billion isk worth of fitting.
However, for me, it seems like an exploit, because, normally to attack another player, you need to be in the same corporation and same fleet, in order to attack another one without getting concorded. That guy swiches from corporation to corporation and hunts for mission runners. This is for me also abusing the game mechanics to gain isk. We werent in a duel and i didnt had a suspect or criminal flag, that allowed him to legally attack me.
Is that normal, that corp members can legally attack each other even without beeing in the same fleet? What is more, I also didnt got a duel flag to him. So my first thought, when he started shooting me, was to kick him off of the corp, so that then concord attacks. But it was already too late. When i kicked him off when he started shooting me, would then concord have attacked him? i'm REALY miss the old stuff.-á
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=24183 |
Michele Bachmann
Doughboys Overload Everything
84
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Posted - 2014.07.23 14:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
is this real life |
Akeru Matu
Sietch Jacurutu
0
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Posted - 2014.07.23 14:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
Working as intended. Otherwise you couldnt target your corpmates to use say a remote shield repper. Just learn to background check your recruits first... |
Gustav Mannfred
the bring back canflipping corp
103
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Posted - 2014.07.23 14:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
Akeru Matu wrote:Working as intended. Otherwise you couldnt target your corpmates to use say a remote shield repper. Just learn to background check your recruits first...
a remote shield repper can be used to anyone, even to non corp members without getting concorded( as long he dont has a criminal flag in hi-sec) However,that guy could just legally attack me in a 0.6 system. i'm REALY miss the old stuff.-á
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=24183 |
Archibald Thistlewaite III
493
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Posted - 2014.07.23 15:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
Gustav Mannfred wrote:I want warn you of an exploiting player, who joins your corp, scans you down and can legally attack you without concord. He first joined my corporation, then he scanned me down in Barkrik and came with a paladin and attacked me without concord came and killed him.
So, I lost a Vargur with almost one billion isk worth of fitting.
However, for me, it seems like an exploit, because, normally to attack another player, you need to be in the same corporation and same fleet, in order to attack another one without getting concorded. That guy swiches from corporation to corporation and hunts for mission runners. This is for me also abusing the game mechanics to gain isk. We werent in a duel and i didnt had a suspect or criminal flag, that allowed him to legally attack me.
Is that normal, that corp members can legally attack each other even without beeing in the same fleet? What is more, I also didnt got a duel flag to him. So my first thought, when he started shooting me, was to kick him off of the corp, so that then concord attacks. But it was already too late. When i kicked him off when he started shooting me, would then concord have attacked him?
Being in a Fleet has no effect on any aggression mechanics or any weapons timers.
Corp mates have always been able to shoot each other, its designed that way so no exploit was used.
You can't kick corp members whilst they are in space. Its is this way to stop people being kicked from their corp and getting concorded.
The solution is the rest of your corp mates. If you had asked some of them to fleet up and warp to you, you could of killed his shiney ship.
Edit for link: Crimewatch devblog |
Handar Turiant
University of Caille Gallente Federation
21
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Posted - 2014.07.23 15:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
Dude, AWOXing, Safari. Google it. People get that stuff tattoooed on their bodies these days it's so popular. |
Sh0plifter
Underworld Initiative
39
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Posted - 2014.07.23 15:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
Your corp is "Bring back can flipping." Your thread is about corp mates shooting other corp mates. I am completely confused about why you have an issue with this mechanic that has been around since Adam and Steve were first placed on this earth by Allah in the name of Jehovah. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3857
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Posted - 2014.07.23 15:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
Yep, that's normal. It's a dumb mechanic, because it pushes people away from each other rather than creating group play and has a very low "value add" impact. It's impossible to prevent awoxers getting in entirely (especially if you are a line member, not a director), and when they dot hey can freely blap corp members. Realistically if they removed the ability to kill corp members it would go a long way to getting people to move out of the safety of NPC corps and "me an my alts" corps which get way too much focus nowadays.
Your best bet is to stick to an NPC corp though. The more people refusing to leave NPC corps, the more likely someone is going to take a look and say "hold on a minute, we should really be looking to encourage group play here". The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Sky' Darkstar
Dark Star Operations.
56
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Posted - 2014.07.23 15:36:00 -
[9] - Quote
5/10 -Sky' |
Leto Thule
Narwhals Ate My Duck. Narwhals Ate My Duck
894
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Posted - 2014.07.23 15:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Yep, that's normal. It's a dumb mechanic, because it pushes people away from each other rather than creating group play and has a very low "value add" impact. It's impossible to prevent awoxers getting in entirely (especially if you are a line member, not a director), and when they dot hey can freely blap corp members. Realistically if they removed the ability to kill corp members it would go a long way to getting people to move out of the safety of NPC corps and "me an my alts" corps which get way too much focus nowadays.
Your best bet is to stick to an NPC corp though. The more people refusing to leave NPC corps, the more likely someone is going to take a look and say "hold on a minute, we should really be looking to encourage group play here".
Lucas, when a mother bird wants her children to fly, she pushes their asses outta the nest. She doesnt ask for the tree to lower itself to the ground.
Removing AWOXing would be just one more brick on the road to warcraft. I regret to inform you that your heresy in requesting added sissification to the game, by removing the requirement to perform background checks and vet your new members -- has forced me to add your name to the kill-it-forward program. An innocent carebear will be destroyed, in your name, and will be advised to contact you for compensation of lost assets.
May BOB have mercy on your soul. Killboard
https://zkillboard.com/character/90841161/
If you didnt vote Psychotic Monk, you voted for Hello Kitty in space |
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Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3857
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Posted - 2014.07.23 16:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:Removing AWOXing would be just one more brick on the road to warcraft. I regret to inform you that your heresy in requesting added sissification to the game, by removing the requirement to perform background checks and vet your new members -- has forced me to add your name to the kill-it-forward program. An innocent carebear will be destroyed, in your name, and will be advised to contact you for compensation of lost assets.
May BOB have mercy on your soul. Would it though? I think removing awoxing would be one more step on the road to getting NPC carebears to actually play the game with others. You say "perform background checks", but no background checks will stop people who are determined to come in and blow people up. And it's not like it's done as a method of creating content, it's done to annoy.
The end result of awoxing is that players stay out of player corporations and either stay in NPC corps or roll their own corps. If that's an end result you are happy with then fair enough, play on. I'll continue to advise people to stick to those NPC corps if they want to be sure to avoid awoxing.
And by all means, kill it forward. You certainly won't find me shedding a tear over some nub getting vapourised. I'm all for unwanted PvP being kept, I'm just not a supporter of mechanics which push people into solo, risk averse play.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Cannibal Kane
Cannibal Empire
4144
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Posted - 2014.07.23 16:11:00 -
[12] - Quote
Actually, I think RR should go suspect if you rep a corp mate attacking another corpmate.
Right now RR can freely help the awoxer.
Dunno how big a fix that would be but it will certainly make the awoxer think twice if he has to risk loosing a RR boat.
I don't think removing corp killing will bring in NPC chars since those same people also want wardecs to go away. Just add sufficient risk to the awoxer. "Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk |
Leto Thule
Narwhals Ate My Duck. Narwhals Ate My Duck
894
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Posted - 2014.07.23 16:21:00 -
[13] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote: .... it's not like it's done as a method of creating content, it's done to annoy.
I must respectfully disagree. I have several cohorts who pay for their EVE subscriptions by AWOXing corps and ransoming players. It is a legitimate occupation in EVE.
Lucas Kell wrote: The end result of awoxing is that players stay out of player corporations and either stay in NPC corps or roll their own corps. If that's an end result you are happy with then fair enough, play on. I'll continue to advise people to stick to those NPC corps if they want to be sure to avoid awoxing.
The end result of AWOXing SHOULD be to tighten your corporate security down, maybe NOT fly that epic faction battleship with "the new guy", or fleet up with your corpmates and BLAP THE AWOXER.
Nothing in EVE is meant to be 100% secure -- including corporations. Further heretical replies to this topic will result in additional carebears being exposed to vacuum in your name.
Killboard
https://zkillboard.com/character/90841161/
If you didnt vote Psychotic Monk, you voted for Hello Kitty in space |
Malcolm Shinhwa
Northstar Cabal Tactical Narcotics Team
2699
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 16:23:00 -
[14] - Quote
INB4 terrible advice and gross misunderstandings of game mechanics.
EDIT: Dammit. If we're not supposed to shoot pods in hisec, why are they filled with meat? |
Leto Thule
Narwhals Ate My Duck. Narwhals Ate My Duck
894
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 16:23:00 -
[15] - Quote
Cannibal Kane wrote:Actually, I think RR should go suspect if you rep a corp mate attacking another corpmate.
Right now RR can freely help the awoxer.
Dunno how big a fix that would be but it will certainly make the awoxer think twice if he has to risk loosing a RR boat.
I don't think removing corp killing will bring in NPC chars since those same people also want wardecs to go away. Just add sufficient risk to the awoxer.
THAT part is broken... and I think we have all expected it to change for some time.
But until it goes away.... Killboard
https://zkillboard.com/character/90841161/
If you didnt vote Psychotic Monk, you voted for Hello Kitty in space |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
171
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Posted - 2014.07.23 16:41:00 -
[16] - Quote
So, you understand aggression mechanics well enough to be the CEO of a corp called "the bring back canflipping corp" which seems to specialize in playing Jita station games and/or whoring on Jita station kills, but you didn't know that corp members could shoot each other in hisec without warning or CONCORD interdiction?
I'm at a loss for words here....
EDIT: Lossmail or it didn't happen. I'm having a hard time believing your story. Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I want to create content, not become content. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3857
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Posted - 2014.07.23 16:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
Cannibal Kane wrote:I don't think removing corp killing will bring in NPC chars since those same people also want wardecs to go away. Just add sufficient risk to the awoxer. In my pre-null days I'd only ever go in corps on my own or NPC ones, with perhaps small low risk stints in others. It's simply not worth the risk to hope someone vets their members enough to not put you at risk, and there's no benefits to being in a random corp over your own alt corp. It may not move all the NPC players across, but it would certainly help.
Leto Thule wrote:I must respectfully disagree. I have several cohorts who pay for their EVE subscriptions by AWOXing corps and ransoming players. It is a legitimate occupation in EVE. So keep the awoxing. I live in null where anyone can shoot anyone so I don't particularly care, just don't run around crying about "risk averse" NPC players if you aren't willing to compromise.
Leto Thule wrote:The end result of AWOXing SHOULD be to tighten your corporate security down, maybe NOT fly that epic faction battleship with "the new guy", or fleet up with your corpmates and BLAP THE AWOXER. Maybe it should be, though it's arguable that security can ever be that tight. Sad fact is though mate, that's NOT the end result. The end result is that the vast majority of highsec players are in solo/alt corps and NPC corps. More awoxing won't make that better.
Leto Thule wrote:Nothing in EVE is meant to be 100% secure -- including corporations. Further heretical replies to this topic will result in additional carebears being exposed to vacuum in your name. And I don't think it ever should be 100% safe. Removing awoxing still wouldn't make you 100% safe, it would just take away the low effort piracy that makes corps so unappealing.
And please, proceed to kill non-stop for all eternity mailing out my name in bulk. If they respond, I'll even tell them I authorized it and that they are idiots. I'll then explain to them that awoxing is bad for the game and they should jump on the forums and repeat my arguments for me, thus completing this wonderful circle. You killing randoms isn't suddenly going to make me abandon my opinions. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
299
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Posted - 2014.07.23 17:52:00 -
[18] - Quote
I just got blown up while ice mining because of you Mr. Lucas Kell. I've read this thread through and through. Your ill formed opinions and rantings are out of line. Continuing your rhetoric makes you no better than an awoxer. You are aware that you actions are haming innocents. Stop immediately. This should go no further. |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Unleashed Pestilence
882
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 18:10:00 -
[19] - Quote
Cannibal Kane wrote:Actually, I think RR should go suspect if you rep a corp mate attacking another corpmate.
Right now RR can freely help the awoxer.
Dunno how big a fix that would be but it will certainly make the awoxer think twice if he has to risk loosing a RR boat.
I don't think removing corp killing will bring in NPC chars since those same people also want wardecs to go away. Just add sufficient risk to the awoxer. Totally agree, but what would determine if a corp mate is fighting another corp mate? Is there a limited engagement associated with intra-corp combat? I think the only way to implement this is to have corp members go suspect if they attack other corp members. which I'm not sure that people want. New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3858
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 19:16:00 -
[20] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:I just got blown up while ice mining because of you Mr. Lucas Kell. I've read this thread through and through. Your ill formed opinions and rantings are out of line. Continuing your rhetoric makes you no better than an awoxer. You are aware that you actions are harming innocents. Stop immediately. This should go no further. 0/10
And even if by some miracle someone has been blown up over this, do you really think I care? The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Eldwinn
SomeWhat SophiSticateD
1
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Posted - 2014.07.23 19:19:00 -
[21] - Quote
0/10. Going back to reading all the CODE spam on C&P now. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
302
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Posted - 2014.07.23 19:26:00 -
[22] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:I just got blown up while ice mining because of you Mr. Lucas Kell. I've read this thread through and through. Your ill formed opinions and rantings are out of line. Continuing your rhetoric makes you no better than an awoxer. You are aware that you actions are harming innocents. Stop immediately. This should go no further. 0/10 And even if by some miracle someone has been blown up over this, do you really think I care?
So you reach out to the community AND profess you don't care??? (rummages through spare character bin looking for suitable awox alt).
All I can think to say at this moment is....
WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE Hoooo Hooooo |
Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
771
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Posted - 2014.07.23 19:59:00 -
[23] - Quote
I've always said if you want people to have an incentive to leave NPC corps, make it economic.
I've always suggested doubling the tax rates for NPC corps and have them apply to EVERYTHING. Everything in EVE is a trap. And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:) You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
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Anne Dieu-le-veut
Natl Assn for the Advancement of Criminal People
141
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Posted - 2014.07.23 20:07:00 -
[24] - Quote
Seems to me it shouldn't be too hard to code it that anyone RRing someone in combat gets a LE timer. I mean, repairing a criminal gets you a criminal timer, yes?
TBH it wouldn't surprise me if the next HTFU nerf is removing firing on corp mates without getting CONCORDed, while leaving corp theft alive (for now...).
This! |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5710
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Posted - 2014.07.23 20:18:00 -
[25] - Quote
This has been, around like, for ages, guy. It is, intended gameplay by, CCP. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal & proud member of the popular gay hookup site, somethingawful.com |
Tengu Grib
Simple Inc Simple Group
230
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Posted - 2014.07.23 20:35:00 -
[26] - Quote
Gustav Mannfred wrote:I want warn you of an exploiting player, who joins your corp, scans you down and can legally attack you without concord. He first joined my corporation, then he scanned me down in Barkrik and came with a paladin and attacked me without concord came and killed him.
So, I lost a Vargur with almost one billion isk worth of fitting.
However, for me, it seems like an exploit, because, normally to attack another player, you need to be in the same corporation and same fleet, in order to attack another one without getting concorded. That guy swiches from corporation to corporation and hunts for mission runners. This is for me also abusing the game mechanics to gain isk. We werent in a duel and i didnt had a suspect or criminal flag, that allowed him to legally attack me.
Is that normal, that corp members can legally attack each other even without beeing in the same fleet? What is more, I also didnt got a duel flag to him. So my first thought, when he started shooting me, was to kick him off of the corp, so that then concord attacks. But it was already too late. When i kicked him off when he started shooting me, would then concord have attacked him?
Corp members have always been able to shoot each other. He's not abusing any game mechanics, just your trust, and that's your fault not CCP's.
Once he was shooting at you, there was nothing you could do but defend yourself. You cannot kick players from your corporation while they are in space (the game won't let you). This has to do with how the game determines standings and who can shoot at whom. Without a session change you would get weird things happening like him being able to shoot you, but you getting concorded for defending yourself. It's not ideal, but it's currently a programing necessity (apparently, I'm not a programmer). But yeah, corp members have always been allowed to shoot each other, and it doesn't generate any flags. Tengu Grib > I agree. The distinct lack of quality spaceships makes RL the worst space sim ever. SolidX > i'm an alt IRL Guilty conscience? Buy a mining permit today. www.minerbumping.com |
Tengu Grib
Simple Inc Simple Group
230
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Posted - 2014.07.23 20:45:00 -
[27] - Quote
Cannibal Kane wrote:Actually, I think RR should go suspect if you rep a corp mate attacking another corpmate.
Right now RR can freely help the awoxer.
Dunno how big a fix that would be but it will certainly make the awoxer think twice if he has to risk loosing a RR boat.
I don't think removing corp killing will bring in NPC chars since those same people also want wardecs to go away. Just add sufficient risk to the awoxer.
As an awoxer, I would have no problem with that. It's true that RR makes awoxing way to easy and safe. Tengu Grib > I agree. The distinct lack of quality spaceships makes RL the worst space sim ever. SolidX > i'm an alt IRL Guilty conscience? Buy a mining permit today. www.minerbumping.com |
General Nusense
Not Posting With My Main
187
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Posted - 2014.07.23 20:52:00 -
[28] - Quote
Gustav Mannfred wrote:I want warn you of an exploiting player, who joins your corp, scans you down and can legally attack you without concord. He first joined my corporation, then he scanned me down in Barkrik and came with a paladin and attacked me without concord came and killed him.
So, I lost a Vargur with almost one billion isk worth of fitting.
However, for me, it seems like an exploit, because, normally to attack another player, you need to be in the same corporation and same fleet, in order to attack another one without getting concorded. That guy swiches from corporation to corporation and hunts for mission runners. This is for me also abusing the game mechanics to gain isk. We werent in a duel and i didnt had a suspect or criminal flag, that allowed him to legally attack me.
Is that normal, that corp members can legally attack each other even without beeing in the same fleet? What is more, I also didnt got a duel flag to him. So my first thought, when he started shooting me, was to kick him off of the corp, so that then concord attacks. But it was already too late. When i kicked him off when he started shooting me, would then concord have attacked him?
its amazing how someone who has been playing eve as long as you have dont understand the basic game mechanics of Eve Online. |
Tengu Grib
Simple Inc Simple Group
230
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 20:52:00 -
[29] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Maybe it should be, though it's arguable that security can ever be that tight. Sad fact is though mate, that's NOT the end result. The end result is that the vast majority of highsec players are in solo/alt corps and NPC corps. More awoxing won't make that better. Then how is it that I have absolutely NO trouble finding corps to awox? If what you say is true, then finding corps to awox should actually be getting harder, and I assure you, it is not.
I really don't think that removing awoxing would reduce the number of people in npc corps, as I really do not believe that is the primary reason so many remain there. In fact a bigger reason, in my understanding, is not having to worry about war decs. In reality, there is no advantage to being in a corp other than the ability to anchor structures for the corp, and maybe corp hangars. Every other function of corporations can be met in other ways.
If you want to bring people into player corporations, the entire corporation mechanic needs a complete overhaul and a setup which provides incentive to be in, and remain in, a player corporation, whether you plan on having anchored assets or not. Until that happens, many people will remain in NPC corps as they see no benefit to leaving.
I highly doubt awoxing has nearly the effect you are describing. Tengu Grib > I agree. The distinct lack of quality spaceships makes RL the worst space sim ever. SolidX > i'm an alt IRL Guilty conscience? Buy a mining permit today. www.minerbumping.com |
Tengu Grib
Simple Inc Simple Group
230
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Posted - 2014.07.23 20:59:00 -
[30] - Quote
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:Cannibal Kane wrote:Actually, I think RR should go suspect if you rep a corp mate attacking another corpmate.
Right now RR can freely help the awoxer.
Dunno how big a fix that would be but it will certainly make the awoxer think twice if he has to risk loosing a RR boat.
I don't think removing corp killing will bring in NPC chars since those same people also want wardecs to go away. Just add sufficient risk to the awoxer. Totally agree, but what would determine if a corp mate is fighting another corp mate? Is there a limited engagement associated with intra-corp combat? I think the only way to implement this is to have corp members go suspect if they attack other corp members. which I'm not sure that people want.
I don't know about going suspect right away all the time, seems a little extreme, and would make web slinging freighters annoying cause you'd have to keep dueling each other. There does need to be a fix of some kind though. I don't actually have a good answer to what it should be, but if I'm awoxing someone, and I'm using reps, my victims should be able to call for help and freely attack my logi boats. Whatever mechanical way that gets handled would be fine by me. Tengu Grib > I agree. The distinct lack of quality spaceships makes RL the worst space sim ever. SolidX > i'm an alt IRL Guilty conscience? Buy a mining permit today. www.minerbumping.com |
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