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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Hawk Firestorm
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Posted - 2006.07.05 03:54:00 -
[1]
Just as there are rules governing loggin out there needs to be some form of sensible rules applied to login, to stop the persistant growing trend of abusing this as a method to create mass lag and get easy ganks, completely out of game mechanics where none can see you there.
I'm all fine and cool when people are all playing a level playing field and playin the game but when you have mobs of over 80+ purposly using this to create lag and as a I win button it's highly annoying.
The GM's response to this is one of usual apathy, we can't control when peopel login, this is indeed correct BUT YOU CAN CONTROL WHAT RULES THEY MUST FOLLOW WHEN DOING SO, in the same fashion as logging off and in a method that doesn't hurt people suffering disco's.
I woudl sugest that to stop this people are logged off at a random spot, remain cloaked and immobile for upto 90 secs upon loggin in if they have been logged out for over 5 mins, or some other similar dynamic.
If CCP don't think this is a problem then waht you thinks gonna happen to your systems when entire alliance start abusing this and 500+ peeps each side start usin it we have to wait till your login servers start blowing chips?
Eve should be about playing the game not exploiting it's shortcommings, lag is a major issue and doesn't need anymore help from this junk.
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vyperpit
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Posted - 2006.07.05 04:03:00 -
[2]
waiting longer than 20sec on login screen should eiter kick you from server, or it should auto log you in!
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Arnold Swartzenegger
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Posted - 2006.07.05 07:46:00 -
[3]
Originally by: vyperpit waiting longer than 20sec on login screen should eiter kick you from server, or it should auto log you in!
Longer than 20 seconds...maybe a couple of minutes
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Taka
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Posted - 2006.07.05 10:00:00 -
[4]
well i dont like the idea of having to wait for 90 seconds while cloaked and immobile everytime i log in. when i log in i want to be straight into playing the game. and because im on a bad connection im always being disconnected.
i dont wanna have to be waiting for 1 minute and a half when i finally log in. -------------------- My Sig Got Podded!!
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Miss Overlord
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Posted - 2006.07.05 10:16:00 -
[5]
things are fine as they are. Everyone can use the login loggoff tactic easily enough so it doesnt favour anyone.
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Zarch AlDain
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Posted - 2006.07.05 15:48:00 -
[6]
To be honest I would like to see multiple logins in one system 'staggered' so only one person can log in each 10 seconds. There would need to be a time immediately after downtime where that isn't applied though and maybe an adjustment upwards for busy systems.
Zarch AlDain The Blackwater Brigade Huzzah Federation
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Rabid Whippet
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Posted - 2006.07.05 15:54:00 -
[7]
Oh good ... everyone can use an exploit so its not an exploit?
So because i can kill you and you can kill me its ok if i kill you right?
The problem is that ships disapear when logged off .. well the game is supposed to be continuous with everyone sharing the same environment ... yet people are able to slip into a different dimension or something?!
The problem is not how to deal with people logging on or off it is one easily solved by stopping logging off from making your ship vanish. You may not be piloting it but the game still goes on.
If this change is made it just means that people have to find a safe spot to log off ... middle of nowhere or an npc station.
This is probably THE simplest solution to all the *****ing surounding this problem. The ONLY people who will complain about this are people who log off to grief other players. Im about to turn pirate ... so in 6 weeks my argument will of changed ... but right now im impartial as i am a new player with nothing at stake or to gain.
with this logging thing i have NO RISK unless i am retarded.
In answer to this threads problem .... from my understanding the lag is cause by the variance in the amount of information being sent ... change it to how i suggested and this wil be more constant thus indirectly solving or at least aiding the problem.
Mrtortoise
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Hawk Firestorm
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Posted - 2006.07.05 16:37:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Taka well i dont like the idea of having to wait for 90 seconds while cloaked and immobile everytime i log in. when i log in i want to be straight into playing the game. and because im on a bad connection im always being disconnected.
i dont wanna have to be waiting for 1 minute and a half when i finally log in.
As do I, unfortunately there's a new growin trend to abuse this by setting up login traps with 80+ peeps logging in all at the same time, creating massive lag pits, and to gain a unfair advantage by manipulating out of game mechanics whereby none can see them to achieve their goals.
I've absolutely no problems with 80+ peeps moving around the map and playing the game as it should be played, but this junk will only spread if allowed to, and it can only serve to trash eve.
Login and logout conditions need to be regulated or they will be abused, and the systems should be in place to ensure it's always a level playing field.
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Outa Rileau
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Posted - 2006.07.05 18:10:00 -
[9]
Enable module activation after player makes a warp and enters it? ofcourse useless modules such as cloak and miners would be an exception
Originally by: Raem Civrie Minmatar comes from the icelandic term "minni mßttar", which means underdog (or in the context of EVE, "lesser people").
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Chandaris
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Posted - 2006.07.06 13:30:00 -
[10]
Instead of auto-warping back to the place you were at when you logged out, your ship should stay at the 'safespot' you fly to when you logout (the spot 1,000,000 km away)
it would take time then for people to re-orient and jump to their destination, and would give the people in the system time to see all these mofo's logging in
it would help alot with login traps
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Hoshi
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Posted - 2006.07.07 11:42:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Chandaris Instead of auto-warping back to the place you were at when you logged out, your ship should stay at the 'safespot' you fly to when you logout (the spot 1,000,000 km away)
it would take time then for people to re-orient and jump to their destination, and would give the people in the system time to see all these mofo's logging in
it would help alot with login traps
It would also make it much easier to get thru bubble camps and get out of interdictor bubbles etc. They need to fix the fact that bubbles don't hold logged off ships before they introduce something like that. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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RogueWing
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Posted - 2006.07.07 20:17:00 -
[12]
Edited by: RogueWing on 07/07/2006 20:19:09
Originally by: Miss Overlord things are fine as they are. Everyone can use the login loggoff tactic easily enough so it doesnt favour anyone.
Spoken like a true alt who's afraid to admit that his main uses this tactic.
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Warden Nightstar
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Posted - 2006.07.08 05:20:00 -
[13]
Login traps like that need to be stopped. All they need to do is check their logs and they can quickly ban every associated person (whether by IP or convos or corp) who logs in on that system within the space of a minute. It's not hard at all to do it, and I'm sure they will as they become aware of the problem.
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Hawk Firestorm
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Posted - 2006.07.08 10:12:00 -
[14]
Personaly I'm more for smart design that stops it occuring in the first place and havin it to be petitioned.
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ragewind
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Posted - 2006.07.08 11:34:00 -
[15]
just make the login emergansy warp just that: totally random so that no one can log in to there optimual camp point. ------------------------------------ fix eves industrial sector!
advanced industrial ship |
Riho
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Posted - 2006.07.08 12:11:00 -
[16]
Originally by: ragewind just make the login emergansy warp just that: totally random so that no one can log in to there optimual camp point.
imo thats the best solution :D
when u log off.... u warp 1mil kms or whatever in a random direction.... then when u log on, u stay there.
for ppl who crashed... doesnt really matter. couse they cna jump to the spot they want to go enyways after they log in. and for teh fleets that are doing it... it takes time to reorganise again... that means it deters them doing so
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.07.08 13:50:00 -
[17]
Better: stop people from aggressing within 60 seconds of logging in.
If they are attacked, they can respond of course, but they can't aggress otherwise.
--Proud member of the [23]--
-WTB Platinum Technite, WTS Nanotransistors, Heavy Electron II, 100mn AB II- |
RogueWing
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Posted - 2006.07.09 00:07:00 -
[18]
There are a LOT of ways to keep this from happening. It will just take CCP to make a decision on whether they want this type of gameplay to become "standard" or not.....and then they can fix it.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.07.09 00:32:00 -
[19]
Originally by: vyperpit waiting longer than 20sec on login screen should eiter kick you from server, or it should auto log you in!
IME, it does (When you click on your portrait, it says "cannot connect" and quits). But sometimes it can do that after 2 seconds too.
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Warden Nightstar
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Posted - 2006.07.09 05:41:00 -
[20]
Yes, there are a lot of ways you can fix it permanently, but none of them are really good. You cannot permanently fix it without breaking things. The best solution is to just treat it as a DoS attack on the server, and ban and prosecute those who do it. That'll make people think twice before trying it again.
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AfterShock
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Posted - 2006.07.09 18:25:00 -
[21]
Why not have a filter on the map to show the number of people logged out in the system?
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kveldulfson
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Posted - 2006.07.10 11:35:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Warden Nightstar Edited by: Warden Nightstar on 09/07/2006 06:13:17 Yes, there are a lot of ways you can fix it permanently, but none of them are really good. You cannot permanently fix it without breaking things. The best solution is to just treat it as a DoS attack on the server, and ban and prosecute those who do it. That'll make people think twice before trying it again.
From the Eve Online rules:
An immediate permanent ban of an account may result if:
d. A player has engaged in activity that intentionally causes others to lose connection, suffer latency issues (lag) or to crash to desktop (CTD).
I think that it can be fixed without breaking things, it would just mean more work to ensure that it works as it should and does not create more exploits. I also think it's more a case of the Dev's being somewhat busy rather than apathetic about this issue, but as its stated in the rules its a breach of conduct and a banning offence I suggest a strict pettitioning policy until they realise that it is more urgent than they might think. If a few players are banned it will stop the practice dead in its tracks.
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Hawk Firestorm
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Posted - 2006.07.10 16:11:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Hawk Firestorm on 10/07/2006 16:12:07
Originally by: AfterShock Why not have a filter on the map to show the number of people logged out in the system?
That would be kinda meaningless as it would have to show people legally logged out and non abusers, it just wouldn't give any meaningful info nor actually do anything to stop the practice.
Login and indeed logout rules must apply in a sensible manner that are both well designed and thought out, but as the user base continues to increase more of eve's weaker design points will be continued to be pushed and broken and they need to be addressed promptly before they trash the game.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.07.11 01:41:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Warden Nightstar Yes, there are a lot of ways you can fix it permanently, but none of them are really good. You cannot permanently fix it without breaking things. The best solution is to just treat it as a DoS attack on the server
Only if it WAS a DoS on the server, which would only apply, a best, to the 200+ member logins. Anything else is likely to end up very messy for CCP, since it's not actually any sort of DoS.
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Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2006.07.11 23:33:00 -
[25]
Sounds like it is time for a an mud/MUSH word to be used. That word is "twink", to be applied to people that log off or log on in order to gain an advantage. This same word can be applied to those that send numerous conversation requests, gang invites and that sort of thing.
-AS |
Red Flag
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Posted - 2006.07.12 12:33:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Miss Overlord things are fine as they are. Everyone can use the login loggoff tactic easily enough so it doesnt favour anyone.
what? you think this is a good tactic? you think cheating is ok? you think causing lag is ok? if ccp say making lag is ok then i will make lots of lag for you.
Red Flag
Poet, Prophet, Pirate |
Malachon Draco
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Posted - 2006.07.12 12:41:00 -
[27]
This is very hard to police, but I do think something should be done to prevent mass-exploitation.
People connect and disconnect for many reasons, and if a big fleet is moving, I see a lot of emergency warps and disconnects at a lot of junps. So a blanket rule of not more than X logins per minute or whatever would not be good for that.
Also, if you add a timer where you can't aggress, but you can defend when aggressed, it only takes a single person staying online to fire a shot at all the login trap people to 'activate' them.
Best solution IMO would be to ***** down on obvious use of this 'tactic' when people petition it and CCP checks the logs as to what happened. Preferably, I'd just reimburse the victims and blow up the offending ship or take an amount of cash equivalent to the platinum insurance value of the ship used in the login trap to punish the culprits.
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Malachon Draco
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Posted - 2006.07.12 12:41:00 -
[28]
This is very hard to police, but I do think something should be done to prevent mass-exploitation.
People connect and disconnect for many reasons, and if a big fleet is moving, I see a lot of emergency warps and disconnects at a lot of junps. So a blanket rule of not more than X logins per minute or whatever would not be good for that.
Also, if you add a timer where you can't aggress, but you can defend when aggressed, it only takes a single person staying online to fire a shot at all the login trap people to 'activate' them.
Best solution IMO would be to ***** down on obvious use of this 'tactic' when people petition it and CCP checks the logs as to what happened. Preferably, I'd just reimburse the victims and blow up the offending ship or take an amount of cash equivalent to the platinum insurance value of the ship used in the login trap to punish the culprits.
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Marcus Right
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Posted - 2006.07.12 12:42:00 -
[29]
I agree with Firestorm. I doubt CCP wants the major alliances like ASCN and BoB to start using this 'tactic'. And if CCP says it's ok to do then have no doubt that they will. (Cause see, how it is right now: ASCN & BoB play by the rules. We don't use out of game mechanics or lamer tactics in order to achive our goals. We play by the rules. But if CCP says, "Logon tactics are OK." ... ASCN, BoB, and others may start using it when they haven't before. Sure, 80 guys logging on together may seem impressive to those guys who did it. But imagine 2,000 people all logging on together and coming down on you from no-where!)
The fact is, it does cause lag. It's very lame since it's exploiting the local. (CCP made it so you couldn't leave the local channel with one of the last patches for a reason. Logging off is hiding you from the local channel.)
CCP needs to do something about this lamer tactic of logging on. Either they need to make a timer as suggested by Hawk that you can't do anything for a minute, 90 seconds, whatever after logging back on when you were gone for 5 minutes... or whatever.
The problem is though, something like a 90 second timer is more hassle to all then to the lamers since they'll just log off when they see you coming and then log back on with-in the 5 minute timer.
SO. I would suggest that ships in general just don't disappear from space when someone logs off in space.
Give us the ability to 'set ancher' so our ship doesn't warp off when we log off... thus we can stick our ships inside a POS and it wont leave the shield when we log off. But a ship should be sitting in space when it's pilot logs of. Period. That's my recommendation.
Whatever the case, SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE. I'm sick of cheaters, lamers, and griefers, in all MMORPGs. They don't even realize how weak it shows they are.
- Right -
People who don't like it when other people ask questions fear the trueth.
www.eve-search.com |
Hawk Firestorm
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Posted - 2006.07.13 07:00:00 -
[30]
It would be nice to hear some input from the Dev team regarding this.
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